A Christian State

[Shetl]

Reading about Rojava and Daesh all year got me thinking, what would the Xtian equivalent of the Caliphate look like?

So I translated, or rather 'remastered,' the Jefferson Bible into my native tongue, and while doing so, a vision of a very cozy, very liberal state occurred to me, where the government provides free education, healthcare, infrastructure, a basic income, and hands out carefully tested and updated licenses for *everything* that is potentially harmful to society or nature, regarding not only physical harm but also oppression and addiction - drugs, gambling, hooliganism, rape, suicide, cannibalism, prostitution, you name it (no seriously, YOU name it, there would be constant ballots on what to license next, bad news for the cannibals I guess) - until the state and the people run out of stuff to legalize.

Once something is legalized, the state helps you do it. A licensed junkie would receive very pure, cheap heroin, licensed smokers and drunkards would get their poison tax-free. A licensed brawler can challenge anyone with a matching license to a fight, even in public, and not be prosecuted... unless she hurts innocent bystanders, which will result in her losing the license and possibly go to jail, doing time with ruffians who went in over non-violent offenses, still have their license, and get to play Fight Club all day while little Miss No-License sits by idly.

A state that limits itself to the role of a gardener who waters all the plants equally, fertilizes those in need, but doesn't actively pluck the weeds. Crime, terrorism and general assholism would slowly fade out, because they need a climate of oppression and inequality to thrive.

Naive, I know, but hey, it's Christmas.

[Vista Major]

Reading about Rojava and Daesh all year got me thinking, what would the Xtian equivalent of the Caliphate look like?

So I translated, or rather 'remastered,' the Jefferson Bible into my native tongue, and while doing so, a vision of a very cozy, very liberal state occurred to me, where the government provides free education, healthcare, infrastructure, a basic income, and hands out carefully tested and updated licenses for *everything* that is potentially harmful to society or nature, regarding not only physical harm but also oppression and addiction - drugs, gambling, hooliganism, rape, suicide, cannibalism, prostitution, you name it (no seriously, YOU name it, there would be constant ballots on what to license next, bad news for the cannibals I guess) - until the state and the people run out of stuff to legalize.

Once something is legalized, the state helps you do it. A licensed junkie would receive very pure, cheap heroin, licensed smokers and drunkards would get their poison tax-free. A licensed brawler can challenge anyone with a matching license to a fight, even in public, and not be prosecuted... unless she hurts innocent bystanders, which will result in her losing the license and possibly go to jail, doing time with ruffians who went in over non-violent offenses, still have their license, and get to play Fight Club all day while little Miss No-License sits by idly.

A state that limits itself to the role of a gardener who waters all the plants equally, fertilizes those in need, but doesn't actively pluck the weeds. Crime, terrorism and general assholism would slowly fade out, because they need a climate of oppression and inequality to thrive.

Naive, I know, but hey, it's Christmas.

Huh, sounds like a very interesting concept there. Licensing to do something that's legal, with government support... It seems somewhat restrictive or authoritarian though, the licence part.

[The Serbian Empire]

It'd look a lot like Daesh just with abortion clinic bombings.

[Caracasus]

That's.... optimistic to say the very least. I'd be more inclined to imagine something along the lines of A Handmaid's Tale.

[Sigphin]

Vatican City

[Frank Zipper]

I'd be more inclined to imagine something along the lines of A Handmaid's Tale.

My thoughts exactly.

[Shetl]

Licensing to do something that's legal, with government support... It seems somewhat restrictive or authoritarian though, the licence part.

That is a good point. Prison is also a problem. Maybe if there's an option to shut down the entire licensing or even legal system once *everything* is legal? Think of it like a 'cake form' for society, shaping a future Kingdom of Heaven, a friendly anarchy where everyone gets their act together on the way to the court, except there is no court anymore... I can't fathom how many generations that would take, though.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I don't like the idea of any state founded on the base of religion

[Rusozak]

Inquisition era Spain mixed with ISIS? It wouldn't be much different honestly. Extremism always has the same ugly face, no matter what flag they wave.

[Shetl]

I don't like the idea of any state founded on the base of religion

Me neither, but nobody needs to believe in God in order for this to work. Believing in people will suffice.

And as the one-line crew points out correctly upthread, I wouldn't found jack on Xtianity in its present state.

[The Serbian Empire]

Vatican City

And that's the most peaceful path.

[The Patrimony of Saint Peter]

Well, to be honest I believe that a Christian equivalent to a caliphate is completely contrary to the Christian ideal. Indeed, from the Catholic tradition, we see that such a notion is a bit odd, isn't it? After all, what faith wants to be squirreled away in their self-dug hole in order to resist modernity? The Christian call to arms is instead a call to propagation; to perpetuate the faith to all corners of the world and not to be settled in.

Regarding the old "Donation of Constantine" and the Papal State, this is a practical necessity. So long as the Holy Father is temporally independent and the Lateran treaty is upheld, that is to say so long as the Pope is sovereign, he is able to exercise his supreme office to the ultimate extant. This said, Pius IX's effort to maintain the Papal State according to it's pre-risorgimento borders was a noble one, though unnecessary. Vatican City is sufficient.

Likewise, Pius IX made it clear that the model Christian state was not in Italy, or anywhere on Earth. After all Christ's kingdom is in Heaven! And if He truly was a king, His disciples would fight in earnest to establish Him and all the angels in Heaven would manifest and indeed there would be great horror. Now, Pius IX condemned the notion of the "separation of Church and State" in his encyclical Quanta Cura. St. Pius X would reaffirm it later on. By doing this, he bridged the gallicans with the ultramontanists and found a common thread. Saying that while the state ought to never be found superior to the Church, the mission of Mother Church is not to rule over the state; but instead to guide the crowns of the world in proper virtue.

So the true Christian state is not a sovereign Israel-like sovereignty, but instead one that is fixed in our hearts which, ideally, beats with the same rhythm as the Sacred Heart. Though, all states ought to be Christian in some regard. All states ought to endeavor to recognize Holy Mother Church and defend her.

[Pulau Singapura]

Inquisition era Spain mixed with ISIS? It wouldn't be much different honestly. Extremism always has the same ugly face, no matter what flag they wave.

Inq-era Spain was pretty much a terrorist organization in itself.

[Murovanka]

Yes yes yes! Women would lose all rights and would become property of men, slavery would be legalized again, the country would be divided along the lines of believers and kafirs, the world divided into the realm of Dar-al-Christ and Dar Al-Harab... where mighty brave Crusaders would bring infidels to their knees. Ah, the utopia! Imagine, a world at peace, under the benevolent rule of God (well, those who interpret His word).

[Ashmoria]

It'd look a lot like Daesh just with abortion clinic bombings.

unless it was a Unitarian Christian state. then it would look a lot like the US today but without the abortion clinic bombings. ..and no fighting over whether or not gay marriage is OK.

[The Archregimancy]

Reading about Rojava and Daesh all year got me thinking, what would the Xtian equivalent of the Caliphate look like?

It looked vaguely like this:

Daesh is no caliphate. I doubt they particularly care what I think, but I refuse to recognise the ISIS claim to be a 'caliphate' in any form, and the term should only be used in its historical sense.

The real Caliphate was a medieval Muslim organisation that was destroyed by the Mongols in 1258, and a shadow of which lived on until 1924.

In terms of medieval eastern Mediterranean governments with a strong theocratic bent, the Byzantine Empire was the closest Christian ideological equivalent to the Ummayad and Abbasid Caliphates; the comparison is imperfect, simplistic and more than a little invidious, but it's the only comparison we realistically have to work with. Neither the Papal States nor the early pre-13th century Holy Roman Empire realistically come close.

[Herrebrugh]

How is Rojava an "equivalent of the Caliphate"?

What does Rojava have to do with religious states, anyway?

[Shetl]

How is Rojava an "equivalent of the Caliphate"?

Rojava is the exact opposite of the IS, right next door to the IS. Where did I claim the two are equivalent?

What does Rojava have to do with religious states, anyway?

Uncle Öcalan has been preaching total egalitarianism and abolition of all forms of dominance for some time now, which used to be core Christian values... until The Church happened. Obviously there are Kurds who did not get the proverbial memo.

[Union of Confederate Socialist Republics]

The Roman Empire under Constantine I was a Christian State by law.

[Ugatoo]

The Vatican is a christian state.

[Republic of the Cristo]

I have modeled my nation off of the idea of a Christian state.

[Victor Siege]

So I translated, or rather 'remastered,' the Jefferson Bible into my native tongue,

So what you really mean is a Deist State

[The Alma Mater]

Vatican City

Why not simply state "Europe for much of the past 2000 years" ?

[United Marxist Nations]

I would suggest reading up on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States

And, of course, the current Vatican City-State.

[United Marxist Nations]

The Roman Empire under Constantine I was a Christian State by law.

No; it didn't become officially Christian until his death, IIRC.