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[PASSED] Condemn DEN

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The Rouge Christmas State
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[PASSED] Condemn DEN

Postby The Rouge Christmas State » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:15 am

Security Council:

Recognizing that the region known as DEN has committed numerous atrocities throughout Nationstates, and will not quit raiding for the foreseeable future

Noting that these attacks or raids on other regions are not illegal, but have been and should be heavily criticized by many nations on Nationstates. The strategy of raiding defaces a region and leaves a barren region that destroys unique cultures and communities that exist on Nationstates

Appaled that DEN has conducted numerous raids on regions including:

[*]The invasion and occupation of Catholic in the 2012, leading to the Security Resolution to Liberate the region.

[*]The occupation of Japan

[*]The invasion of the region of Christmas.

[*]The invasion of California

[*]The most recent invasion of St Abbaddon

Further Noting that the modern day DEN was the creation formed from the occupation of The Atheist Empire, later on attracting many former Black Riders, where they continue to deploy and use the same strategies and tactics that condemned the Black Riders

Shocked that these actions haven't deemed DEN worthy of a condemnation, even though the atrocities they have done to many regions on Nationstates.

Believing that these actions are an aspect of Nationstates that should not be condoned, but rather discouraged. Feeling as though these actions are worthy of international scrutiny

Hereby condemns DEN

Support would be much appreciated. :)

Proposal Link: http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vie ... 1449452583
Last edited by Mousebumples on Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:02 am, edited 5 times in total.
Reason: post-vote edit
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:49 am

The section about TWP is a load of bollocks.
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We Are Not the NSA
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Postby We Are Not the NSA » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:50 am

The rouge Christmas state wrote:Security Council:

Recognizing that the region known as DEN has committed numerous atrocities throughout Nationstates, and will not quit raiding for the foreseeable future

I have to say, I do appreciate the fact that you actually listed our raids instead of just saying we raid. Too many people don't provide the specifics IMO. However, you neglect to mention Paradoxia, Power is Rising, Union of Proletarian States, California and St. Abbaddon.

Noting that these attacks or raids on other regions are not illegal, but have been and should be heavily criticized by many nations in the Nationstates. The tactic of raiding defaces a region and leaves a barren region that destroys unique cultures and communities that exist on Nationstates

I'd say raiding overall is more of a strategy than a tactic, while tagging and infiltrating are more like tactics.
Appaled that DEN has conducted numerous raids on regions such as but not only:

Personal opinion: I'd put "including, but not limited to" instead of "such as but not only".
[*]The invasion and occupation of Catholic in the 2011, leading to the Security Resolution to Liberate the region.

... A pre modern era raid... I... SOMEONE DID RESEARCH?! A small amount, yeah, but still, I've never seen someone include a pre modern era raid done by DEN in a condemnation before. Bravo.
[*]The occupation of Japan by members of the former Black Riders that now are located and raid under the flag of DEN

Since you mention that DEN more or less equals TBR later on in the proposal, it really isn't necessary here. Japan wasn't even the first raid the new DEN did. I always think people tend to forget the fact that the current incarnation of DEN was born with an ongoing occupation in Atheist Empire. I know it isn't as BA as it sounds, but still a little hyperbole can go a long way in politics. ;)
[*]The invasion of the region of Christmas.

[*]The memorable conquest of the West Pacific, where DEN was the first raiding organization on Nationstates to conquer a GCR.

Hmmm... While I appreciate the inclusion of this most amusing event, I'm sure others will not.

EDIT:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:The section about TWP is a load of bollocks.

Ninja'd :p

Further Noting that DEN was the destination of many former Black Riders, and continue to carry the same motives as the Black Riders had.

I actually sort of like this draft. It focuses much more on DEN than on TBR, unlike many of its predecessors.
Shocked that these actions haven't deemed DEN worthy of a condemnation, event though the aurtrocities and war they have declared on every region on Nationstates.

Typo: "event" should be "even". Spelling: "aurtrocities" should be "atrocities". Also, I wouldn't say DEN has declared war on every region, partially because we have allies, partially because our raids are never personal. Declaring war isn't really necessary when randomly attacking.
Believing that these actions are an aspect of Nationstates that should not be condoned, but rather discouraged. Filling as though these actions are worthy of international scrutiny

"these actions" can just be "raiding" (forget the fancy term I learned in English class, but CinemaSins calls it "the pronoun game"). "Filling" should be "Feeling".
Last edited by We Are Not the NSA on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Rouge Christmas State
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Postby The Rouge Christmas State » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:54 am

Oops I didn't even have the right region for the West Pacific. Thanks for the comments and edits.
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The Rouge Christmas State
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Postby The Rouge Christmas State » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:59 am

We Are Not the NSA wrote:
The rouge Christmas state wrote:Security Council:

Recognizing that the region known as DEN has committed numerous atrocities throughout Nationstates, and will not quit raiding for the foreseeable future

I have to say, I do appreciate the fact that you actually listed our raids instead of just saying we raid. Too many people don't provide the specifics IMO. However, you neglect to mention Paradoxia, Power is Rising, Union of Proletarian States, California and St. Abbaddon.

Noting that these attacks or raids on other regions are not illegal, but have been and should be heavily criticized by many nations in the Nationstates. The tactic of raiding defaces a region and leaves a barren region that destroys unique cultures and communities that exist on Nationstates

I'd say raiding overall is more of a strategy than a tactic, while tagging and infiltrating are more like tactics.
Appaled that DEN has conducted numerous raids on regions such as but not only:

Personal opinion: I'd put "including, but not limited to" instead of "such as but not only".
[*]The invasion and occupation of Catholic in the 2011, leading to the Security Resolution to Liberate the region.

... A pre modern era raid... I... SOMEONE DID RESEARCH?! A small amount, yeah, but still, I've never seen someone include a pre modern era raid done by DEN in a condemnation before. Bravo.
[*]The occupation of Japan by members of the former Black Riders that now are located and raid under the flag of DEN

Since you mention that DEN more or less equals TBR later on in the proposal, it really isn't necessary here. Japan wasn't even the first raid the new DEN did. I always think people tend to forget the fact that the current incarnation of DEN was born with an ongoing occupation in Atheist Empire. I know it isn't as BA as it sounds, but still a little hyperbole can go a long way in politics. ;)
[*]The invasion of the region of Christmas.

[*]The memorable conquest of the West Pacific, where DEN was the first raiding organization on Nationstates to conquer a GCR.

Hmmm... While I appreciate the inclusion of this most amusing event, I'm sure others will not.

EDIT:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:The section about TWP is a load of bollocks.

Ninja'd :p

Further Noting that DEN was the destination of many former Black Riders, and continue to carry the same motives as the Black Riders had.

I actually sort of like this draft. It focuses much more on DEN than on TBR, unlike many of its predecessors.
Shocked that these actions haven't deemed DEN worthy of a condemnation, event though the aurtrocities and war they have declared on every region on Nationstates.

Typo: "event" should be "even". Spelling: "aurtrocities" should be "atrocities". Also, I wouldn't say DEN has declared war on every region, partially because we have allies, partially because our raids are never personal. Declaring war isn't really necessary when randomly attacking.
Believing that these actions are an aspect of Nationstates that should not be condoned, but rather discouraged. Filling as though these actions are worthy of international scrutiny

"these actions" can just be "raiding" (forget the fancy term I learned in English class, but CinemaSins calls it "the pronoun game"). "Filling" should be "Felling".

I got criticized last time I tried for including "useless raids" such as California.
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Postby We Are Not the NSA » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:10 am

The rouge Christmas state wrote:I got criticized last time I tried for including "useless raids" such as California.

Ah. In your last proposal the only two raids you specifically mentioned were TWP(which barely even counted as a coup) and California (which was not the most impressive raid ever). With the inclusion of the more important stuff, briefly mentioning the less important DEN raids would be acceptable as a compliment to the bigger stuff. IMO the more region specifically mentioned (while remaining valid, so no tag raids), the more voters will feel sympathy for the raidees and more for votes the proposal will receive.
Last edited by We Are Not the NSA on Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Rouge Christmas State
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Postby The Rouge Christmas State » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:12 am

We Are Not the NSA wrote:
The rouge Christmas state wrote:I got criticized last time I tried for including "useless raids" such as California.

Ah. In your last proposal the only two raids you specifically mentioned were TWP(which barely even counted as a coup) and California (which was not the most impressive raid ever). With the inclusion of the more important stuff, briefly mentioning the less important DEN raids would be acceptable as a compliment to the bigger stuff. IMO the more region specifically mentioned (while remaining valid, so no tag raids), the more voters will fell sympathy for the raidees and more for votes the proposal will receive.

Thank you for the help.
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Knot II
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Postby Knot II » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:07 pm

Catholic was invaded by the DEN in February of 2012, just a couple days shy of its eighth anniversary.
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The Silver Sentinel
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Postby The Silver Sentinel » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:37 pm

:rofl: The West Pacific was far from conquered. That was nothing more than a shittily planned tag raid, which DEN didn't even plan. Try again?

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Postby Kaboomlandia » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:00 pm

Your list coding is broken. Try [list] on either end of the list.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
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Postby We Are Not the NSA » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:05 pm

The Silver Sentinel wrote::rofl: The West Pacific was far from conquered. That was nothing more than a shittily planned tag raid, which DEN didn't even plan. Try again?

Shittily planned, not planned... I'd point out the paradox there but both are pretty much accurate assessments. ;)
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Postby Siberian Districts » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:44 am

The Silver Sentinel wrote::rofl: The West Pacific was far from conquered. That was nothing more than a shittily planned tag raid, which DEN didn't even plan. Try again?


Except they still had their WFE pasted for all new nations to see for multiple updates. I'm sure that counts for something.
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:59 am

Siberian Districts wrote:
The Silver Sentinel wrote::rofl: The West Pacific was far from conquered. That was nothing more than a shittily planned tag raid, which DEN didn't even plan. Try again?


Except they still had their WFE pasted for all new nations to see for multiple updates. I'm sure that counts for something.

Not really. They got handed the keys by our petulant former delegate and scrambled to hold it for two updates.

I can even remember NSA posting on our RMB that he didn't really know what was happening and that they were making it up as they went along.

And then they got screwed by Cormac.
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Postby We Are Not the NSA » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:00 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Siberian Districts wrote:
Except they still had their WFE pasted for all new nations to see for multiple updates. I'm sure that counts for something.

Not really. They got handed the keys by our petulant former delegate and scrambled to hold it for two updates.

I can even remember NSA posting on our RMB that he didn't really know what was happening and that they were making it up as they went along.

And then they got screwed by Cormac.

If you're referring to the post in which I apologized for causing a mess and stated (if I remember correctly) "I've lost control of the situation", I was lying (mainly because I never had control in the first place). :blush: That was my first post after actually getting confirmation that URA had given his nation to Knot.

There were parallels between the TWP fiasco and a raid, mainly in that Shad and my endorsements were the deciding factor in the delegacy (which was the only reason we even entered the region in the first place). But yeah, we were basically given the keys to the car, and our joyride ended with some missing fenders. Not much of a win or a loss for any group involved, but stupid things like "facts" and "what actually happened" have never stopped me from tooting my own horn before. :p

EDIT: Also, the recruitment we were able to do, combined with the publicity, is worth noting. As someone who reads every rmb post that has to do with raiding/DEN, I can assure you guys that the average NS player did not do the research required to actually know the facts about the event. For about 2 weeks after I could barely do any intelligence work because 99% of the chatter I usually watch was just the message "omj guyz DEN raided a gcr were all doomed!!1!!" We definitely did get something out of it, even if it wasn't a permanent raiding GCR bastion of doom.
Last edited by We Are Not the NSA on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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We Are Not the NSA
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Postby We Are Not the NSA » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:38 am

My thoughts on the submitted proposal...

Spelling+Grammar/Coding+Wording Changes

Description: Security Council:

Recognizing that the region known as DEN has committed numerous atrocities throughout Nationstates, and will not quit raiding for the foreseeable future

"In the"
Noting that these attacks or raids on other regions are not illegal, but have been and should be heavily criticized by many nations on Nationstates. The strategy of raiding defaces a region and leaves a barren region that destroys unique cultures and communities that exist on Nationstates

Appaled that DEN has conducted numerous raids on regions including:

"appalled"
The invasion and occupation of Catholic in the 2012, leading to the Security Resolution to Liberate the region.

The occupation of Japan

The invasion of the region of Christmas.

You might that we're perpetuating "the war on Christmas". :p
The occupation of California

The most recent invasion of St Abbaddon

Some sentences in this list end with periods, some don't.
Further Noting that the modern day DEN was the creation formed from the Black Rider occupation of The Atheist Empire, later on attracting many former Black Riders, becoming the defunct organization's new base of operations, from which where they continue to deploy and use the same strategies and tactics that the Black Riders were condemned for

You should add the region tag to AE.

Shocked that these actions haven't deemed DEN worthy of a condemnation, even though the atrocities they have done to many regions on Nationstates.

"Even though" usually implies a second part of the thought. I think you're looking for the word "despite"
Believing that these actions are an aspect of Nationstates that should not be condoned, but rather discouraged. Feeling as though these actions are worthy of international scrutiny

Hereby condemns DEN
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Postby The German Democratic Reich » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:06 pm

Raiding is not illegal in the WA

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Cormac Stark
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Postby Cormac Stark » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:24 pm

The rouge Christmas state wrote:[*]The invasion of the region of Christmas.

Christmas has been raided many times and I'm sure DEN has raided it, so this is probably technically correct, but if you're referring to the July 2012 raid that caused Liberate Christmas, it was Asgard leading that raid, not DEN. DEN did provide valuable support for that raid though.

I'm iffy on condemning this particular incarnation of DEN for the actions of its 2012 incarnation, based out of the region DEN Central Command, and led by very different people. It's basically giving the current group credit for things they didn't do and had no part in and I'm confident that this incarnation of DEN will do enough on its own to warrant condemnation, given some more time.

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Postby Cresenthia » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:08 am

The German Democratic Reich wrote:Raiding is not illegal in the WA

No, it is not. But the Security Council does frown upon it in general.

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The Silver Sentinel
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Postby The Silver Sentinel » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:00 pm

Cresenthia wrote:
The German Democratic Reich wrote:Raiding is not illegal in the WA

No, it is not. But the Security Council does frown upon it in general.

No they don't. Several raiders have been commended for fucks sake.

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Qanchia
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Postby Qanchia » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:04 pm

We Are Not the NSA wrote:
The rouge Christmas state wrote:Filling as though these actions are worthy of international scrutiny

"Filling" should be "Felling".

Feeling, surely?

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The Silver Sentinel
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Postby The Silver Sentinel » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:12 pm

Qanchia wrote:
We Are Not the NSA wrote:"Filling" should be "Felling".

Feeling, surely?

You gotta love when the person critiquing your draft can't spell worth a shit either.

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Cresenthia
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Postby Cresenthia » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:16 pm

The Silver Sentinel wrote:
Cresenthia wrote:No, it is not. But the Security Council does frown upon it in general.

No they don't. Several raiders have been commended for fucks sake.

Who got commended for raiding?

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The Silver Sentinel
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Postby The Silver Sentinel » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:32 pm

Cresenthia wrote:
The Silver Sentinel wrote:No they don't. Several raiders have been commended for fucks sake.

Who got commended for raiding?

Todd and Evil Wolf to name two. I would suggest reading before posting, but that is just me.

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Aenglaland
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Postby Aenglaland » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:25 pm

The Silver Sentinel wrote:
Cresenthia wrote:Who got commended for raiding?

Todd and Evil Wolf to name two.

And damn well earned, me thinks :lol:

Around two months ago, someone was trying to commend DEN, then a few days later we saw a draft to condemn DEN, and here's a new attempt to do it. Be it for condemn DEN or commend it, it's funny how different attempts to "give" any of the badges to DEN makes it look like the humours of a woman going through the hell of menopause. In one moment you want to show your love for DEN, then right in the next second you look all excited to stamp a "Baby I hate you" all over it.

I've said it before, and my opinion remains the same. DEN isn't worth being either commended or condemned. Just let them be.
Last edited by Aenglaland on Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby The Bruce » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:38 am

Until they amount to more than some invaders using the name of an older invader group as their private sock puppet they don't deserve a condemnation, except for being unoriginal in their choice of region names.

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