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"Pork or Nothing" : How Politics intervenes children's lunch

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Seraven
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"Pork or Nothing" : How Politics intervenes children's lunch

Postby Seraven » Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:47 am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/o ... ntolerance

When Aïcha Tabbakhe, a French nurse, went to fill out the forms for her children’s school dinners in her small town outside Paris, she was puzzled. The box she would usually tick to say that her Muslim children didn’t eat pork wasn’t there. “Confused, I called the town hall and I was bluntly told: ‘From now on, that’s the way it is,’” she said. “Pork or nothing.”

After years of French controversies over headscarves, pork has become the new battleground in the nation’s uneasy debate over national identity and the place of Islam. Bacon and sausage school dinners are being used by rightwing politicians to hammer home what it means to be French. Court battles and vicious political spats have erupted as protesters warn that controversial menu changes are sending a message to Muslim or Jewish children that to be truly French, they must eat roast pork. Politicians, as they go to war over the ham on school dinner plates, are fighting about the true meaning of French secularism and whether it has been hijacked and twisted by the right in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attacks.

Tabbakhe’s home town of Chilly-Mazarin – a town of about 20,000 people in L’Essonne, which nudges up against Orly airport to the south of Paris – is the latest of several run by rightwing mayors to announce they will scrap pork-free options in school canteens in the name of secularism. For 30 years, Chilly-Mazarin has provided non-pork alternatives to Muslim and Jewish children. But from November, that will stop. On days when the menu features dishes such as roast pork with mustard and courgette gratin, or Strasbourg sausage and organic lentils, or ham pasta bake, children whose families don’t eat pork for religious reasons will be offered nothing but the side dishes. The new mayor, Jean-Paul Beneytou, from Nicolas Sarkozy’s rightwing Les Républicains party, says this is a commonsense way to preserve public sector “neutrality”. But many parents, teachers and leftwing opposition politicians call it a deliberate stigmatisation of Islam that is cruel to children by playing politics with school lunches.
France’s much vaunted secularism is not the neutral space it claims to be

“It’s the impact on the children that has been the hardest,” says Tabbakhe. “My four-year-old daughter is too young to understand that she doesn’t eat pork. It’s not something she’s aware of and it’s not something we talk about. What am I supposed to tell her now? We tried to subtly tell her we didn’t eat pork at home. But she thought ‘pork’ was a type of dessert. She said, ‘Yes, I do eat it, it’s delicious.’ That would be funny if it wasn’t such an awful situation. She is totally confused and has picked up on the atmosphere. She’s crying at school and says she doesn’t want to eat at the canteen. My nine-year-old son went door to door with a parents’ association petition against this and got lots of signatures from non-Muslim parents who were upset. He said to me, ‘Don’t worry, Mum, I won’t eat it.’ He shouldn’t have to be worrying about this. School is supposed to be about learning and living together, not about this. Now my nine-year-old is starting to ask, ‘Why am I different?’”

Tabbakhe takes off her headscarf every morning to go to work because by law, French public-sector workers, including hospital staff, must be seen as neutral and cannot show religious belief with an outward symbol. “That is the law, so I do it. But this isn’t the law,” she says.

In the past eight months, decisions by some rightwing mayors to end pork-free school meals – with the full support of the former president Sarkozy – have sparked outrage, petitions and court battles. School canteens in France are run by town halls, which are free to make their own rules. Unlike in the UK, French state schools do not offer halal or kosher meat. Muslim or Jewish children who stay for lunch eat the same meat as everyone else. But on days where pork is served, a large number of town halls offer substitutes, such as a turkey sausage. Other towns offer vegetarian options. There has never been a big movement to demand halal or kosher meat in France – children who eat only halal or kosher either go home for lunch or attend private faith schools. But now controversy has gripped France.
Children who don’t eat pork will have to do without a main course on days when it is served


At the heart of the row over pork is the French principle of secularism, or laïcité, and whether it has been twisted for political gain. The French republic is built on a strict separation of church and state, intended to foster equality for all private beliefs. In theory, the state is neutral in terms of religion and allows everyone the freedom to practise their faith as long as there is no threat to public order. Since January’s terrorist attacks – in which French Islamic extremists left 17 dead after the shootings at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo and a kosher supermarket in Paris – laïcité has been repeatedly used by political parties as a catch-all answer to society’s ills. After the attacks, the socialist prime minister, Manuel Valls, said secularism was now “the only issue that matters”. Since then, the word has been used so often as a mantra by the government and politicians that a panel of linguists recently voted it “word of the year”.
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Once a rallying cry of the left, secularism has now been appropriated by the right, and even the far-right Front National, as part of a debate on national identity – used to rail against anything seen as not French, and particularly to target and exclude Islam from the public sphere. It is a principle meant to protect pluralism, but the sociologist François Dubet recently warned that “talking about secularism has [now] become a way to claim a white Christian France, where everyone shares the same values and traditions, a way to say we don’t want Muslims”.

Jean-Louis Bianco, who heads national consulting body the Observatory of Secularism, has warned that the scrapping of pork-free school dinners is a “typical” example of secularism being used for political ends. “Why create a problem where there isn’t a problem?” he asked.

“Nowhere does French secularism declare that people must eat the same, dress the same, drink the same,” says Valentine Zuber, a historian of religion and international relations at the École Pratique des Hautes Études in Paris. “That is a distortion of the principle of laïcité.” She warns that secularism has come to be used as a principle of exclusion to somehow save France from cultural mixing, “when that is not what it means at all”.

Chilly-Mazarin does not suffer social tension. It has a pretty town hall, quiet streets and less than 20% social housing. A large population from north Africa moved there after the second world war as France shed its colonies. Many found work in the building boom when the town was bisected by a major motorway to Paris. Residents stress that everyone gets on well. Last year, the socialist mayor was ousted by Les Républicains. Outside the sports hall, a publicity pillar is plastered with posters for the Front National, reading “This is our country” – a reminder of the rise of Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration party and the hardening tone of public debate as other politicians court her voters.

One local headteacher, who doesn’t want to be named, says: “Secularism is not about pork. It is about respecting others’ religion; it is not about saying ‘no more religion’. The ban on pork-free meals is extremely difficult for me and my teachers. School is about teaching children to respect each other, regardless of difference. This has demolished our teaching of that in class.”

“My eight-year-old son told me: ‘Mummy, the mayor wants me to eat pork,’” says Amina Ben Bouzian, a childminder. Beneytou, the mayor, says there will be no negative impact on children. “We serve pork three times a month. I don’t think this will perturb the health of a child.” He says he took the decision in the interests of “living together”, that it is important that everyone be served “the same” food and not be set apart by being offered a different meal.

Earlier this year, when another Sarkozy-backed mayor, Gilles Platret, scrapped pork-free options in the Burgundy town of Chalon-sur-Saône, the Muslim Judicial Defence League took him to court. The group’s lawyer, Karim Achoui, says: “A child would be extremely traumatised if a pork cutlet was served to him and he was obliged to eat it after he has been repeatedly told from a young age that it is forbidden food.” The group’s first case failed, but it has lodged a new legal challenge that will be heard in court on 19 October.
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“I’m not an enemy of religion, but religious belief is private and the public service should be secular and neutral,” Platret says. “We welcome all children. We don’t force them to eat what they don’t want to eat. We don’t oblige any Muslim child to eat pork. When a child doesn’t eat a dish, whether for religious reasons or not, the dinner ladies watch out for that child and give them more of whatever else is on the menu – the starter or vegetables – so they don’t go hungry.”

But Platret, who after the Charlie Hebdo attacks was promoted to vice-president of the working group on secularism in the Association of Mayors of France, adds: “The question of pork is symbolic, but it has gone beyond that.” He believes that secularism will be a key issue for the presidential race in 2017, because French society is “searching for itself” and “asking how it can integrate immigrant populations”.

Sarkozy, as he courts far-right voters in his bid to return to the presidency in 2017, fully backs the scrapping of pork-free school dinner options in the name of secularism. “If you want your children to have eating habits based on religion, go to a private faith school,” he said on French TV. But his party is bitterly divided. Rachida Dati, the country’s first Muslim woman to hold a major government post, grew up on the outskirts of Chalon-sur-Saône and has condemned the row as “a non-topic that will drive a wedge through France”. The rightwing senator François Grosdidier has warned: “When you force a child to eat a dish that contravenes their religious or cultural beliefs, the child doesn’t eat it. You are depriving that child of food for political reasons.” The socialist education minister, Najat Vallaud-Belkacem, who was born into a Muslim family in rural Morocco before moving to France aged four, has denounced the scrapping of pork-free options as “a way to ban certain children from accessing the canteen”.


It is not the first time pork has been used to make a political point in France. In 2010, there was controversy over extreme-right groups’ attempts to hold “pork and wine aperitifs”, which they deliberately planned to stage near Muslim places of worship before authorities banned them. A so-called “republican aperitif”, with tables laden with sausage and wine, was held in central Paris by extreme-right groups saying they were against halal meat and wanted to defend secularism.


Last month, as Muslims celebrated Eid al-Adha, the festival of sacrifice, the Front National mayor of Hayange en Moselle, Fabien Engelmann, tweeted pictures of himself petting sheep he said had been rescued from the Muslim celebrations and were being taken to an animal sanctuary.

For hardliners on the French right, meat is politics. In the last presidential election campaign in 2012, as Sarkozy battled to remain president before losing to the socialist François Hollande, he deliberately stoked fears about the Islamisation of the nation’s dinner plates. He seized on a row begun by Le Pen over whether halal meat was being sold on the wider market to unsuspecting non-Muslim consumers. The row started when Le Pen wrongly claimed that 100% of meat in the Paris region was halal.

This was not Sarkozy’s only venture into divisive identity politics. He recently said that, “in the name of secularism”, there should be a ban on the Muslim headscarf being worn by students at universities, a comment that again sparked criticism in his own party. In 2004, France banned girls from wearing veils in state schools – and all other religious symbols, such as crosses or turbans. But recent cases of girls being turned away for wearing long black skirts have exposed tensions over discrimination and schools going further than the law. Earlier this year, a 15-year-old girl was twice banned from class in Charleville-Mézières for wearing a long black skirt considered to be too “ostentatiously” religious, sparking the hashtag #JePorteMaJupeCommeJeVeux (“I wear my skirt as I please”).


According to the CCIF Islamophobia watchdog, at least 130 students have been turned away from class since 2014 for outfits deemed too openly religious – mainly long black skirts. Its spokesman, Yasser Louati, says: “This showed a hysteria targeting Muslims, which is not good for society as a whole.” He says of the pork school meals issue: “It is a deliberate new policy taken by the right to keep up public debate around national identity issues in France. I was born and raised here, and until recently I had never heard of a problem with different school meal options for Muslim and Jewish children who don’t eat pork.”

Back in Chilly-Mazarin, Anouar Briki, who works in construction and was born in Nice, is pondering what to tell his two daughters, aged six and nine, about how to deal with the end of pork-free meals in the canteen. “I’ll have to explain all this in a way that is not shocking to them,” he says. “Until now, they’ve always just eaten normally with their friends, but now they will have to put up their hand and say: ‘No, we can’t eat the same thing.’ We’re not even asking for halal. Parents just want their children to eat a meal that is not pork.”

Why does he think there is so much fuss about it? “Maybe politicians think French identity is linked to pork. But French identity is about so much more than that. And anyway, according to surveys, France’s favourite dish is couscous. So let’s not make up culinary divisions where there are none.”


What’s on the menu?


Sample menus for state school lunches in Chilly-Mazarin [with non-pork alternatives that will disappear from November].

Tuesday 13 October
Starter: Pork liver mousse and cornichon pickle [or chicken pâté] with navette (Marseille orange-flower biscuit)
Main course: Organic blanquette de veau (veal stew), rice
Dessert: Organic apple

Thursday 15 October
Starter: Potted salmon and Swedish bread
Main course: Roast pork [or turkey ham], peas and carrots in yoghurt sauce
Dessert: Banana

Thursday 22 October
Starter: Green salad with vinaigrette dressing
Main course: Tartiflette (a traditional Alpine gratin of potato mixed with bacon and reblochon cheese) [or pork-free tartiflette]
Dessert: Natural yoghurt, low-sugar apple and vanilla compote


So recently in France, law has been enacted to enforced new rule of "Pork or nothing" which will give the Muslim and Jewish no option for eating meat other than Pork. This move has been criticized for driving wedge into France's already-high tensions between religions. This will only creates problem and more intolerance. And secularism is being twisted right here, right now.

So NSG, what's your opinion?
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The Alma Mater wrote:
Seraven wrote:I know right! Whites enslaved the natives, they killed them, they converted them forcibly, they acted like a better human beings than the Muslims.

An excellent example of why allowing unrestricted immigration of people with a very different culture might not be the best idea ever :P

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:58 am

Seraven wrote:So recently in France, law has been enacted to enforced new rule of "Pork or nothing" which will give the Muslim and Jewish no option for eating meat other than Pork.


Do not forget the people who do not want pork for secular reasons - like e.g. vegetarians. Or people with allergies.

So.. bad. There should be at least be one alternative.
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:03 am

My thought was this:
Schools can save money by not having to cook these alternate choices; money better spent on actual education. If the parents of some children don't like it, they can do what every other parent does when their kids don't like school lunches. They can pack a lunch.

But... That's not why they're doing it. They are literally doing it to be dicks. It's like they woke up one day and said, "You know? It's been a while since we did something completely dickish. I think it's time to fuck with the Jews and Muslims again."
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:06 am

I wouldn't last. Not because I'm muslim, I just hate pork
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:08 am

Seraven wrote:So recently in France, law has been enacted...

Tabbakhe takes off her headscarf every morning to go to work because by law, French public-sector workers, including hospital staff, must be seen as neutral and cannot show religious belief with an outward symbol. “That is the law, so I do it. But this isn’t the law,” she says.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:08 am

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:My thought was this:
Schools can save money by not having to cook these alternate choices; money better spent on actual education. If the parents of some children don't like it, they can do what every other parent does when their kids don't like school lunches. They can pack a lunch.

But... That's not why they're doing it. They are literally doing it to be dicks. It's like they woke up one day and said, "You know? It's been a while since we did something completely dickish. I think it's time to fuck with the Jews and Muslims again."

I feel like it's just not fair to say what these kids est. Even at the orphanage we ussually had two or three choices for dinner
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:10 am

Fuck.

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Guys.
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Postby Seraven » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:11 am

Ifreann wrote:
Seraven wrote:So recently in France, law has been enacted...

Tabbakhe takes off her headscarf every morning to go to work because by law, French public-sector workers, including hospital staff, must be seen as neutral and cannot show religious belief with an outward symbol. “That is the law, so I do it. But this isn’t the law,” she says.


For the pork. Not for the religious law.
Copper can change as its quality went down.
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The Alma Mater wrote:
Seraven wrote:I know right! Whites enslaved the natives, they killed them, they converted them forcibly, they acted like a better human beings than the Muslims.

An excellent example of why allowing unrestricted immigration of people with a very different culture might not be the best idea ever :P

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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:14 am

Seraven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:


For the pork. Not for the religious law.

Yes, that's what Tabbakhe is talking about. Her local school changing its menu is not the law. I don't think it says anywhere in your source that this measure is being enforced by law.
Last edited by Ifreann on Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:15 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:My thought was this:
Schools can save money by not having to cook these alternate choices; money better spent on actual education. If the parents of some children don't like it, they can do what every other parent does when their kids don't like school lunches. They can pack a lunch.

But... That's not why they're doing it. They are literally doing it to be dicks. It's like they woke up one day and said, "You know? It's been a while since we did something completely dickish. I think it's time to fuck with the Jews and Muslims again."

I feel like it's just not fair to say what these kids est. Even at the orphanage we ussually had two or three choices for dinner


Of course, there is a limit to the number of dietary choices the schools can take into account. No pork for the muslims and jews, no cow for the hindus, no meat for the vegetarians, no eggs and milk for the vegans etc. etc.
Of course, offering a single vegan meal as an alternative covers most bases, but probably gets boring fast.
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Postby Seraven » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
Seraven wrote:
For the pork. Not for the religious law.

...what?


The law has been enacted. I read it as law for the enforced rules of "pork or nothing", not for removing religious symbols.
Copper can change as its quality went down.
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The Alma Mater wrote:
Seraven wrote:I know right! Whites enslaved the natives, they killed them, they converted them forcibly, they acted like a better human beings than the Muslims.

An excellent example of why allowing unrestricted immigration of people with a very different culture might not be the best idea ever :P

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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:17 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I feel like it's just not fair to say what these kids est. Even at the orphanage we ussually had two or three choices for dinner


Of course, there is a limit to the number of dietary choices the schools can take into account. No pork for the muslims and jews, no cow for the hindus, no meat for the vegetarians, no eggs and milk for the vegans etc. etc.
Of course, offering a single vegan meal as an alternative covers most bases, but probably gets boring fast.

There's a surprising variety of vegan meals out there, and they surprisingly are pretty damn good
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I feel like it's just not fair to say what these kids est. Even at the orphanage we ussually had two or three choices for dinner


Of course, there is a limit to the number of dietary choices the schools can take into account. No pork for the muslims and jews, no cow for the hindus, no meat for the vegetarians, no eggs and milk for the vegans etc. etc.
Of course, offering a single vegan meal as an alternative covers most bases, but probably gets boring fast.

No-one's asking for literally everyone to be catered for. As the article says, anyone who follows strict halal, or kosher diets (and one would assume vegan too) just eat at home.

But right-wing mayors are removing the option "I don't want to eat pork" just to fuck with Islam. I don't think they even care about the knock-on effect against Jews to be honest.
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Postby Seraven » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 am

Ifreann wrote:
Seraven wrote:
For the pork. Not for the religious law.

Yes, that's what Tabbakhe is talking about. Her local school changing its menu is not the law. I don't think it says anywhere in your source that this measure is being enforced by law.


But it's not just for one local school.
Copper can change as its quality went down.
Gold can't change, for its quality never went down.
The Alma Mater wrote:
Seraven wrote:I know right! Whites enslaved the natives, they killed them, they converted them forcibly, they acted like a better human beings than the Muslims.

An excellent example of why allowing unrestricted immigration of people with a very different culture might not be the best idea ever :P

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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 am

Seraven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:...what?


The law has been enacted. I read it as law for the enforced rules of "pork or nothing", not for removing religious symbols.

Well, your source doesn't appear to say anywhere that this is being enforced by law.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:19 am

Seraven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Yes, that's what Tabbakhe is talking about. Her local school changing its menu is not the law. I don't think it says anywhere in your source that this measure is being enforced by law.


But it's not just for one local school.

Nor is it for literally every school. Nor is there any mention of any law enforcing this at all.
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:19 am

Ifreann wrote:
Seraven wrote:
The law has been enacted. I read it as law for the enforced rules of "pork or nothing", not for removing religious symbols.

Well, your source doesn't appear to say anywhere that this is being enforced by law.

Well the mayors enforcing this are claiming that it's under the various laicete laws which could be argued as abuse of power.
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Postby Seraven » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:20 am

Ifreann wrote:
Seraven wrote:
The law has been enacted. I read it as law for the enforced rules of "pork or nothing", not for removing religious symbols.

Well, your source doesn't appear to say anywhere that this is being enforced by law.


Perhaps I'm misinterpreted it. :unsure:

In any case, secularism is being twisted right here. Instead of achieving separation between religion and state, it only serves to furthering Sarkozy's political ambition and right-wing dream of the pure France.
Copper can change as its quality went down.
Gold can't change, for its quality never went down.
The Alma Mater wrote:
Seraven wrote:I know right! Whites enslaved the natives, they killed them, they converted them forcibly, they acted like a better human beings than the Muslims.

An excellent example of why allowing unrestricted immigration of people with a very different culture might not be the best idea ever :P

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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:23 am

Seraven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Well, your source doesn't appear to say anywhere that this is being enforced by law.


Perhaps I'm misinterpreted it. :unsure:

In any case, secularism is being twisted right here. Instead of achieving separation between religion and state, it only serves to furthering Sarkozy's political ambition and right-wing dream of the pure France.

I've certainly never understood secularism to mean "white Christians only, brown Muslims out".
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Postby Herrebrugh » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:25 am

It's really not much more than childish. It's exactly the childish crap some interesting personalities want to institute over here in Netherland. I mean, I'm not at all a fan of Islam or something, but this is just... Low :meh:
Uyt naem Zijner Majeſteyt Jozef III, bij de gratie Godts, Koningh der Herrebrugheylanden, Prins van Rheda, Heer van Jozefslandt, enz. enz. enz.
Im Namen Seiner Majeſtät Joſeph III., von Gottes Gnaden König der Herrenbrückinſeln, Prinz von Rheda, Herr von Josephsland etc. etc. etc.


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Seraven
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Postby Seraven » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:28 am

Ifreann wrote:
Seraven wrote:
Perhaps I'm misinterpreted it. :unsure:

In any case, secularism is being twisted right here. Instead of achieving separation between religion and state, it only serves to furthering Sarkozy's political ambition and right-wing dream of the pure France.

I've certainly never understood secularism to mean "white Christians only, brown Muslims out".


Well, not all countries like that. But they will become like that as soon as an incident incited the population...
Herrebrugh wrote:It's really not much more than childish. It's exactly the childish crap some interesting personalities want to institute over here in Netherland. I mean, I'm not at all a fan of Islam or something, but this is just... Low :meh:

It's not just Islam here. Jewish is also affected.
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Seraven wrote:I know right! Whites enslaved the natives, they killed them, they converted them forcibly, they acted like a better human beings than the Muslims.

An excellent example of why allowing unrestricted immigration of people with a very different culture might not be the best idea ever :P

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:31 am

Ifreann wrote:
Seraven wrote:
Perhaps I'm misinterpreted it. :unsure:

In any case, secularism is being twisted right here. Instead of achieving separation between religion and state, it only serves to furthering Sarkozy's political ambition and right-wing dream of the pure France.

I've certainly never understood secularism to mean "white Christians only, brown Muslims out".

That's sort of the point, Iffy.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:41 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I've certainly never understood secularism to mean "white Christians only, brown Muslims out".

That's sort of the point, Iffy.

And I'm agreeing with it.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:That's sort of the point, Iffy.

And I'm agreeing with it.

Okay. From your statement I thought you'd misunderstood Ser, and thought he meant that that was what secularism actually meant.
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:45 am

Maybe every ideology has it's assholes. Secularism has these guys ruining it.
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