The (Regenerated) Doctor Who Thread: Reverse the Polarity!

[The Archregimancy]

The manner of the regeneration is likely going to cause internet keyboard warriors to work themselves into a lather; but while it adds something new and unprecedented to Who lore, it was also better scripted, was handled significantly better, and was less disruptive to what we know about the Doctor than the whole Timeless Child nonsense.

And Neil Patrick Harris was brilliant. I suspect we haven't seen the last of the Toymaker.

[Philjia]

Overstuffed and deeply silly but it sort of rattled along alright
I wasn't bored
That's where the bar is now

Like I found most of Moffat and Chibnall's series finales deeply interminable and sometimes made my whole soul leave my body, which that didn't do

[Cannot think of a name]

The manner of the regeneration is likely going to cause internet keyboard warriors to work themselves into a lather; but while it adds something new and unprecedented to Who lore, it was also better scripted, was handled significantly better, and was less disruptive to what we know about the Doctor than the whole Timeless Child nonsense.

And Neil Patrick Harris was brilliant. I suspect we haven't seen the last of the Toymaker.

He shot his regeneration into his hand once, Romana tried on a few regeneration like suits. Making up new bullshit about regenerations is about as on brand as you can get for Doctor Who.

LIttle disappointed that when people saw him with this face they didn't just go, "Oh...so...where are you in your timeline?" Everyone sort of skipped ahead to the 'the face is back' with I think only the first encounter kinda playing with that? 'Cause if you're dealing with a time traveler who can regenerates then if you saw one face you'd just assume it was that doctor popping up all out of sync with your time because, well, he's a time traveler.

Like some of the long term Doctor adjacent characters would theoretically have dealt with 14 different doctors all akimbo and would have to keep some sort of River Song book with her. "Ah, okay...comically long scarf and crazy eyes. This is the fourth one, everything from sneakers guy on hasn't happened yet so mums the word...Look, I don't know why we're hiding the future from a being from the future, there's a lot of crazy bs that goes with having a madman in a box who travels through time and gets whole new personalities when they 'die' as your protector."

Or maybe there was exactly enough of that and no one wanted to hear every character work their way through where he was in his timeline.

[The Archregimancy]

The manner of the regeneration is likely going to cause internet keyboard warriors to work themselves into a lather; but while it adds something new and unprecedented to Who lore, it was also better scripted, was handled significantly better, and was less disruptive to what we know about the Doctor than the whole Timeless Child nonsense.

And Neil Patrick Harris was brilliant. I suspect we haven't seen the last of the Toymaker.

He shot his regeneration into his hand once, Romana tried on a few regeneration like suits. Making up new bullshit about regenerations is about as on brand as you can get for Doctor Who.

Oh, absolutely. That becomes even clearer when you do a run-through of the regenerations.

One declared that he could only change ('regeneration' only being first mentioned with Three) inside the Tardis.

Two was forced to change his appearance by the Time Lords even though he was perfectly healthy at the time.

Three (the first one I remember watching in person) needed 'a little push' from a fellow Time Lord masquerading as the abbot of a Tibetan meditation centre before he could regenerate.

Four had that 'the moment has been prepared for' / 'the Watcher was the Doctor all the time' nonsense.

Five was the first since One to just regenerate in the Tardis without external intervention, but 'it feels different this time', and was subsequently slightly mentally unstable.

Six seems to have just regenerated after carelessly bumping his head.

Seven regenerated on a hospital bed as blue lightning (never seen before or since) shot around his body (after some magnificent gurning by Sylvester McCoy).

Eight regenerated after the Sisterhood of Karn revived him, and gave him a choice of potions that would help him choose his new form.

The War Doctor was [chronologically] the first to explode with regeneration energy after simply 'wearing a bit thin'.

Nine was the first shown [in RL chronology] to explode with regeneration energy, but didn't really do any damage in the process.

Ten had the whole hand thing before becoming the first to explode catastrophically, damaging the Tardis.

Eleven aged for centuries, needed the Time Lords to grant him a brand-new regeneration cycle, and then had a simple short, sharp regeneration flash.

Twelve initially seemed to be able to stop his regeneration, before eventually going all explody after giving the best-ever pre-regeneration speech.

Thirteen exploded outside the Tardis before coming back as an older version of Ten (something which the Curator had previously hinted was possible).

Fourteeen... well, it was new, but nothing in the above list would rule it out, and the insertion of a line about the process 'is supposed to be a myth' was, I thought, a nice way of unobtrusively inserting it into lore while also making it something highly unusual within that lore.

In the other notable Time Lord regenerations we've seen on screen... As you've noted, Romana seemed to be able to try on a few new forms before settling on one; the General was the first to be shown to change (in RL human terms) both race and gender.

So the only thing consistent about the portrayal of regeneration over the last 60 odd years has been the inconsistency.

[Cannot think of a name]

He shot his regeneration into his hand once, Romana tried on a few regeneration like suits. Making up new bullshit about regenerations is about as on brand as you can get for Doctor Who.

Oh, absolutely. That becomes even clearer when you do a run-through of the regenerations.

One declared that he could only change ('regeneration' only being first mentioned with Three) inside the Tardis.

Two was forced to change his appearance by the Time Lords even though he was perfectly healthy at the time.

Three (the first one I remember watching in person) needed 'a little push' from a fellow Time Lord masquerading as the abbot of a Tibetan meditation centre before he could regenerate.

Four had that 'the moment has been prepared for' / 'the Watcher was the Doctor all the time' nonsense.

Five was the first since One to just regenerate in the Tardis without external intervention, but 'it feels different this time', and was subsequently slightly mentally unstable.

Six seems to have just regenerated after carelessly bumping his head.

Seven regenerated on a hospital bed as blue lightning (never seen before or since) shot around his body (after some magnificent gurning by Sylvester McCoy).

Eight regenerated after the Sisterhood of Karn revived him, and gave him a choice of potions that would help him choose his new form.

The War Doctor was [chronologically] the first to explode with regeneration energy after simply 'wearing a bit thin'.

Nine was the first shown [in RL chronology] to explode with regeneration energy, but didn't really do any damage in the process.

Ten had the whole hand thing before becoming the first to explode catastrophically, damaging the Tardis.

Eleven aged for centuries, needed the Time Lords to grant him a brand-new regeneration cycle, and then had a simple short, sharp regeneration flash.

Twelve initially seemed to be able to stop his regeneration, before eventually going all explody after giving the best-ever pre-regeneration speech.

Thirteen exploded outside the Tardis before coming back as an older version of Ten (something which the Curator had previously hinted was possible).

Fourteeen... well, it was new, but nothing in the above list would rule it out, and the insertion of a line about the process 'is supposed to be a myth' was, I thought, a nice way of unobtrusively inserting it into lore while also making it something highly unusual within that lore.

In the other notable Time Lord regenerations we've seen on screen... As you've noted, Romana seemed to be able to try on a few new forms before settling on one; the General was the first to be shown to change (in RL human terms) both race and gender.

So the only thing consistent about the portrayal of regeneration over the last 60 odd years has been the inconsistency.

Seven's death was my favorite by far. Not even close. He walks out of the Tardis to figure out where he is and what's going on and just get shot by the first person he sees. Brilliant. After all those times he carefree steps into danger, just gunned down without saying a word.

[Kouralia]

Delayed because I was doing watch parties so both ep2 and 3 had to wait until today...

I liked them both. Felt that Ncuti's short portrayal + the trailer had a sense of majesty to the character that has been missing for a while. The sense that the doctor is in control/understands the underlying premise of the situation and is just working out the details, rather than the more amateurish and inexperienced portrayal that I thought we received from Jodie's Doctor. I liked it, and look forward to

Christmas sky goblins

[Almighty Biden]

Peter Capaldi and Tom Baker were the best Doctors you can never change my mind

[New United Common-lands]

I cannot get over 4 and a half billion years, no matter what anyone says, Heaven Sent is the best episode of Doctor Who.

[Kouralia]

I'd day a good 8/10.

Solid Christmas special concept that wasn't too childish, with a charismatic, energetic, and (importantly) in control Doctor. Felt well paced, which is a weird thing to worry about but I felt that like half of Jodie's episodes... Just ended with 5 minutes of run-time and plot development cut out. I look forward to seeing what happens next with them.

[Earthbound Immortal Squad]

After the three specials and this Christmas one I can say that I have given this new era a fair chance but now I have given up and I'm not planning to watch the new series. That is purely my personal opinion and I don't begrudge anyone else wanting to watch it but at this point it's apparent to me that this RTD reboot doesn't hold a candle to his 2005-10 work, I'd even go so far as to say that I prefer the later Moffat stuff to this (and considering how much I disliked Clara, that is saying something).

As far as the specials go the Toymaker was probably the best while the 2nd special felt closest to a classic DW episode but overall I'm not seeing the bounce back DW has desperately needed after the last few years and it honestly feels like RTD is instead doubling down on most of the flaws from the Chibnall era.

As for the episode. Ruby seems to have a decent backstory I can see a story like the one with Rose meeting her dad at some point popping up. The new Doctor having a knack for inventing seems like a nice twist, the old woman is almost certainly the Master/Missy? Putting Goblins was a risky move (a fantasy focus in a sci-fi show) and they could have had it work if it wasn't for that singing scene (again) which probably means that it is going to become a trend in DW now.

[Vassenor]

Richard Franklin, who appeared opposite the Third Doctor as UNIT Captain Mike Yates in nine serials, has died at the age of 87.

[Vassenor]

Pretty sure that lady is The One Who Waits.

Think about it.

[The Archregimancy]

Well, I liked the Christmas special.

I'll agree with those who don't necessarily think it was the best stand-alone episode of Doctor Who ever, but I thought Ncuti Gatwa was absolutely brilliant as The Doctor - and I can remember Pertwee, so I've seen a few. Gatwa immediately has that slightly alien but charismatic feel that characterises all of the best doctors. There was also some good chemistry with Millie Gibson, which is a plus - and that's the best Tardis interior in a while, with design echoes going all the way back to Hartnell.

Otherwise, it was a perfectly decent Christmas special that did a fine job of introducing a new Doctor and companion without being particularly remarkable as a stand-alone episode.

As to the teasing parts of the plot...

Mrs Flood could be anyone; likewise Ruby's mother could be anyone. Mrs Flood could, of course, be Ruby's mother or Ruby herself. Ruby could be her own mother; or perhaps even her own father (why not? That's the plot of one of the most famous of SF time travel short stories of all time - and Doctor Who has already done Heinlein's bootstrap paradox), though that perhaps feels a little adult for Doctor Who.

At this point I just don't think we have enough information to speculate properly.

And finally, I stand by this:

I can't help but feel 'mavity' is a Chekov's gun.

[New United Common-lands]

Brilliant Christmas special, I don’t love musicals but the doctor singing was just funny. Ruby Sunday is awesome too. Can’t wait for the new series, already love Ncuti Gatwa as the doctor!

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, I liked the Christmas special.

I'll agree with those who don't necessarily think it was the best stand-alone episode of Doctor Who ever, but I thought Ncuti Gatwa was absolutely brilliant as The Doctor - and I can remember Pertwee, so I've seen a few. Gatwa immediately has that slightly alien but charismatic feel that characterises all of the best doctors. There was also some good chemistry with Millie Gibson, which is a plus - and that's the best Tardis interior in a while, with design echoes going all the way back to Hartnell.

Otherwise, it was a perfectly decent Christmas special that did a fine job of introducing a new Doctor and companion without being particularly remarkable as a stand-alone episode.

As to the teasing parts of the plot...

Mrs Flood could be anyone; likewise Ruby's mother could be anyone. Mrs Flood could, of course, be Ruby's mother or Ruby herself. Ruby could be her own mother; or perhaps even her own father (why not? That's the plot of one of the most famous of SF time travel short stories of all time - and Doctor Who has already done Heinlein's bootstrap paradox), though that perhaps feels a little adult for Doctor Who.

At this point I just don't think we have enough information to speculate properly.

And finally, I stand by this:

I can't help but feel 'mavity' is a Chekov's gun.

They're clearly going somewhere with the 'mavity' thing. It's got that 'bad wolf' feel to it.

[The Archregimancy]

It's an online theory, so take this with however many pinches of salt you deem necessary - and don't click on the spoiler if you don't want to speculate on 15's character arc - but...

Someone who claims to work for the BBC has claimed to leak that 15 will turn into the Valeyard. Screenshot of the relevant section below; I've cut out an introductory bit about 15's unrequited flirty love interest revolving around Ruby Sunday's boyfriend.



Nothing explaining Mrs Flood, mind.

[New yugoslavaia]

It's an online theory, so take this with however many pinches of salt you deem necessary - and don't click on the spoiler if you don't want to speculate on 15's character arc - but...

Someone who claims to work for the BBC has claimed to leak that 15 will turn into the Valeyard. Screenshot of the relevant section below; I've cut out an introductory bit about 15's unrequited flirty love interest revolving around Ruby Sunday's boyfriend.

(Image)

Nothing explaining Mrs Flood, mind.

If this is a leak, how likely do you think it is they'll have to rewrite the future seasons now?

[Entropan]

Mrs Flood could be anyone; likewise Ruby's mother could be anyone. Mrs Flood could, of course, be Ruby's mother or Ruby herself. Ruby could be her own mother; or perhaps even her own father (why not? That's the plot of one of the most famous of SF time travel short stories of all time - and Doctor Who has already done Heinlein's bootstrap paradox), though that perhaps feels a little adult for Doctor Who.

it's definitely possible that ruby caused herself into existence, being the person who dropped herself off outside the church. it could be that something happens to her, likely relating back to something regarding "mavity" and the superstitions 14 let into the universe in wild blue yonder, that causes her life to play on a loop. her death retroactively causes her birth, she grows up and drops herself off outside the church, she grows up into mrs flood and acts as a mentor-figure to herself.

or mrs flood could be part of the "forces outside the universe" hinted at in the s14 trailer

[The Huskar Social Union]

Ive not got around to watching the Christmas specials yet, heck ive not even finished Whittakers last season of Doctor who. Plan on catching up with it all in the new year.

[The Archregimancy]

Mrs Flood could be anyone; likewise Ruby's mother could be anyone. Mrs Flood could, of course, be Ruby's mother or Ruby herself. Ruby could be her own mother; or perhaps even her own father (why not? That's the plot of one of the most famous of SF time travel short stories of all time - and Doctor Who has already done Heinlein's bootstrap paradox), though that perhaps feels a little adult for Doctor Who.

it's definitely possible that ruby caused herself into existence, being the person who dropped herself off outside the church. it could be that something happens to her, likely relating back to something regarding "mavity" and the superstitions 14 let into the universe in wild blue yonder, that causes her life to play on a loop. her death retroactively causes her birth, she grows up and drops herself off outside the church, she grows up into mrs flood and acts as a mentor-figure to herself.

or mrs flood could be part of the "forces outside the universe" hinted at in the s14 trailer

It's generally considered good form to use spoiler tags in this thread to discuss significant plot points only knowable from watching an episode (or multiple episodes).

It's likewise considered poor form to remove the spoiler tags from text when you're quoting something that was previously inside a spoiler.

[The Archregimancy]

Important Mrs Flood observation that may impact 'mavity'.

The actress playing Mrs Flood (Susan Twist) also briefly plays Isaac Newton's housekeeper Mrs. Merridrew in the Wide Blue Yonder scene where Isaac Newton decides to call his newly discovered law 'mavity' instead of 'gravity'. In the Church on Ruby Road, a character played by Susan Twist (who doesn't appear to be playing Mrs Flood at this point) asks Ruby Sunday's band to perform the late 16th-century Christmas carol Gaudete.

Surely this has to be significant?

Also, nominative determinism...

[New yugoslavaia]

Important Mrs Flood observation that may impact 'mavity'.

The actress playing Mrs Flood (Susan Twist) also briefly plays Isaac Newton's housekeeper Mrs. Merridrew in the Wide Blue Yonder scene where Isaac Newton decides to call his newly discovered law 'mavity' instead of 'gravity'. In the Church on Ruby Road, a character played by Susan Twist (who doesn't appear to be playing Mrs Flood at this point) asks Ruby Sunday's band to perform the late 16th-century Christmas carol Gaudete.

Surely this has to be significant?

Also, nominative determinism...

Huh, I didn't notice that.

Neat.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Three (the first one I remember watching in person) needed 'a little push' from a fellow Time Lord masquerading as the abbot of a Tibetan meditation centre before he could regenerate.

You watched 3 regenerate into 4, in person? As in, on original broadcast? In 1974?

[The Archregimancy]

Three (the first one I remember watching in person) needed 'a little push' from a fellow Time Lord masquerading as the abbot of a Tibetan meditation centre before he could regenerate.

You watched 3 regenerate into 4, in person? As in, on original broadcast? In 1974?

Yes; at the end of Planet of the Spiders.

The first two Doctor Who serials I have clear memories of are The Green Death (broadcast summer of '73) and Planet of the Spiders (summer of '74) - though for a long time afterwards I confused the plot of The Ark in Space (early '75) with The Green Death; somewhere along the line I mixed up the Wirrn with the giant maggots.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

You watched 3 regenerate into 4, in person? As in, on original broadcast? In 1974?

Yes; at the end of Planet of the Spiders.

The first two Doctor Who serials I have clear memories of are The Green Death (broadcast summer of '73) and Planet of the Spiders (summer of '74) - though for a long time afterwards I confused the plot of The Ark in Space (early '75) with The Green Death; somewhere along the line I mixed up the Wirrn with the giant maggots.

I didn't realize you've been around so long.