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The Dragon and the Tiger [CLOSED, OOC]

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]
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Canton Territories
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The Dragon and the Tiger [CLOSED, OOC]

Postby Canton Territories » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:12 am

IC is here.

The OOC planning and discussion thread for a roleplay by the region of Septentrion, specifically occurring in the region of Canton, the Chen Dynasty and the surrounding waters... I think. Maps and other helpful stuff will be put up here. Please discuss any ideas and developments here so as not to clog up the regional message board. Also a place for me to ramble on my random ideas which occasionally pop up.

Final Note: This RP has been aborted, however canon ending has been put on the IC.




The Republic of Canton (南国共和国)

Image


Etymology
Canton comes from the German word “Kanton”, which originated from the time the Wankan Empire still used the cantonal system of administration. This was replaced by administrative reforms with the Bezirkssystem, yet the colony still retained its name and after a while was simply referred to as “Das Kanton”, or the Canton, and the name stuck. Locally it is called Nanguo, which means “Nation of the South” as it was historically believed to be at the southernmost tip of the world.

History
Formerly a collection of Chinese provinces with various degrees of autonomy from the central government, Canton was rocked by several Wankan-sponsored popular revolutions in the 1880s. Years of fighting in the Canton mountains proved to be costly for both sides, but eventually the Chinese withdrew. By that time Wanka was so heavily involved with its ground troops and navy in the midst of the fighting that it easily managed to usurp control from local warring factions and establish it officially as a protectorate in 1890 while continuing to run it as an imperial-run colony. The colony proved to be expensive to run and economically hardly beneficial, but it remained a symbol of national power for Wanka and represented a century of Wankan colonialism.

During the Wanko-Sylvan war of 1960, also known as the Black War, Canton was temporarily occupied by the Sylvans and Wanka formally ceded control of its crown colony following its defeat in the Treaty of Hessen. The Sylvans soon left after having implemented democratic reforms, creating an independent nationstate despite protests from the Chen Dynasty. However, the mountainous terrain of the former colony in addition to its relative worthless economic value kept the Chinese from invading.

In the half-century that followed, the young nation was plagued with interethnic strife and constant tribal conflicts. The economy remained mostly agrarian. Democracy failed to work, with the Yue/Cantonese ethnic majority holding a monopoly on power and acted to prevent representation of the numerous other ethnic groups which inhabit Canton.

The last few years have been marked by significant, rapid economic growth with the capital, Xianggang (香港) acting as the center for economic development and industrialisation. Nevertheless, Canton remains the poorest nation in Septentrion, with massive income inequality- most wealth is held by a small elite and slow-growing middle class in Xianggang- and high levels of organized crime and piracy. Canton is often described as a failed state, with the government holding little to negligible control over far-flung mountainous regions.

Geography

Canton is dominated by vast mountain ranges running from north to south (Beifang, Huangdi, Nanshan, Sishan mountains in order) with most of the population situated along the low-lying western coast. The Huanghe River Valley near the Chinese border is also densely populated, though the region is difficult to access from the west coast. In the far south lies the Xulin forest. In the north, the climate is temperate while in the south it is tropical. The mountains vary in height but are all generally characterised by being extremely difficult to traverse, resulting in the lack of development for settlements lying far from the capital.

Demographics

Canton has a population of 26,150,000 of which 45% are Yue (~11,800,000), 30% are Han (~7,800,000), 15% are Kosa (~4,000,000), 4% are Hainan (1,000,000) and the other 6% consist of Manchu, Taichi and Wankans with each numbering around 500,000.

The Yue are located mainly on the densely populated and wealthier southern part of the west coast, while the Han inhabit the northern parts in addition to the Beifang Mountains. The Kosa, the third largest ethnic group, dominate the northern Huangdi mountains and the northern Huanghe valley while the Hainan are located mainly in the Huanghe valley. The other groups live mainly in tightly knit, isolated communities in the Huangdi and Nanshan mountains, with exceptions of ethnic Wankan settlers from the colonial period who are predominantly located in Xianggang, the capital.

While there is significant intermingling between the Yue and Han, the two largest groups, economic disparities and outright discrimination have been cause of tension, while both agree to subjugate the third group, the Kosa. Other than that, the nation is heavily divided amongst ethnic lines with clashes frequent and reminiscent of turf wars waged by gangs in the cities on the west coast.

The two official languages are Chinese and German. Each ethnic group, even amongst themselves, have separate and distinct dialects and languages which are often not mutually intelligible. As a result of colonization, German still maintains a strong presence and importance in that it is used as a vital communications link between the often at-odds groups.

Armed Forces

The Kantonale Streitkräfte (Cantonal Armed Forces), are divided into three branches- Army, Air Force, Navy and number approximately 130,000 troops, of which 90,000 are active. 70,000 of these are Yue, 40,000 Han and 20,000 ethnic Wankan.

Foreign experts have often described the CAF as poorly-motivated, ill-disciplined and underequipped despite being a volunteer army. Notably, the military consists nearly exclusively of Yue, Han and ethnic Wankers, with further divides existing as the Han are usually kept out of leadership positions and make up the bulk of the reservists. Due to their historical relationship, Wanka since Meinhof came to power maintained strong cooperation with the existing Cantonese government, assisting in equipping and training the force. The CAF inventory as such consists mostly of Wankan equipment, however these are often older and outdated models.

The Army is the largest branch, with 75,000 active troops and 40,000 reserves. As the terrain is mostly mountainous, the army has placed emphasis on mountain warfare. The active forces are organized into eight mountain brigades, three airborne brigades and four armored brigades. The reserves are organized into another four personnel-heavy mountain brigades.

The Air Force consists of 5,000 active personnel and is as such the smallest branch. Its mission is the defense of the Canton airspace by air and also by land, operating a mostly outdated air-defense network as a subdivision. The main force consists of 40 G-23s (RL MiG-23s) organized into two squadrons.

The Navy consists of 10,000 active personnel and is in charge of guarding Canton coastal waters. The backbone of the navy are 40 patrol boats reinforced by a squadron of missile boats and corvettes.

In addition to this, numerous paramilitary forces exist, operating outside the jurisdiction (and at times against) the central government. These armed militias act to protect their respective communities from attack by other clans or the government.

Note: Cantonese refer to all inhabitants of Canton. This is not to be mistaken by the dialect, Cantonese, spoken by the Yue majority. All other ethnicities are not really related to their real-life counterparts.




Paramilitary Forces

Numerous paramilitary forces exist in Canton, most independent of the Canton Armed Forces’ control. They have fought each other for decades, whether that be with or without the central government, but now turn to a common enemy which has made an appearance at the border: the Chen Dynasty.

Base indicates current command center (can be changed) and main stronghold of support.
Ethnicities indicates which groups the paramilitary is supported by and can recruit from.
Area of support indicates the areas the militia can operate in with active support from the population.
Available Manpower is the maximum number of people that can be recruited. However, keep in mind that on a voluntary basis this cannot be achieved; one must perhaps resort to recruiting children or forcing by a system of conscription men into the militia.
Relations with Government determine the level of support (material, logistics and direct support) one can expect from the central Canton government. This can of course change as the war proceeds.

Communists (Maoshan Alliance of the Revolutionary eXecutive- MARX)

Description:
MARX is the umbrella term for the Chen Red Militia and Cantonese Communist Party and propagate their marxist-leninist ideology. Due to the economic situation they have the widest array of support and recruitment numbers, but are at odds with the government who is actively seeking to suppress the movement. They can expect local support wherever they operate, except for the Nanshan mountains. The Chen Red Militia operates large training facilities in the Huangdi Mountains and Huanghe valley, which are prime targets of the Chen military.

Base: Shuntian
Ethnicities: (mainly) Han, Kosa, Hainan
Area of support: Support mainly from the poor, working class and farmers across the Huanghe valley and Huangdi mountains; various levels of support from across the nation
Available Manpower: 120,000+ fighters of the Chen Red Militia
Relations with Gov: Terrible; the communists have been responsible for unrest on the coast amongst the economically disenfranchised and are the reason for the Chen invasion. Expect no cooperation and no material support; government will actively clamp down on open recruitment or propaganda efforts.

Kosa Brigades (Taken by Nova Sylva)

Description:
Kosa militias have existed for decades to protect Kosa communities from central government control and exercise considerable power over areas in which they are the majority. As a result, they have often suppressed local minorities and can expect resistance and resentment if they operate in areas outside of their bases. Their aims include independence or at least semi-autonomy, which has angered the central government. However, the government realizes that they can come in handy to resist any invasion.

Base: Taiping
Ethnicities: Kosa (pop ~4,000,000)
Area of support: Northern Huangdi mountains down to Henan, a Kosa-dominated city. Northern half of the Huanghe valley.
Available Manpower: 80,000
Relations with Gov: The enemy of my enemy is my friend; Kosa militias have on-and-off fought violent insurgencies against the Cantonese “occupiers” and various groups have made half-hearted attempts at independence. Expect only tacit cooperation and no material support.

Hainanese Army

Description:
Hainan militias have protected their own ultraconservative communities in turn, mainly from the Kosa, and the government has encouraged the formation of armed units to contain the Kosa. Can expect active resistance when operating in Kosa-dominated areas.

Base: Ganzhou
Ethnicities: Hainan (pop ~1,000,000)
Area of support: Southern Huangdi mountains, southern Huanghe valley
Available Manpower: 40,000
Relations with Gov: Good; the Hainan have traditionally been cooperative. Gov is wary for strengthening their position too much. Expect cooperation and material support in terms of small arms and non-lethal equipment and supplies.

Manchu and Taichi Battalions

Description:
The Manchu and Taichi are culturally very similar and share a similar, mutually-intelligible language. They have an active warrior spirit and are known to be tough and brave fighters, and the government has used their fearsome reputation to suppress their enemies and other insurgencies (at times alongside military troops). Lacking in numbers, this is made up by excellent training (relatively speaking) and heavy and up-to-date equipment. However, they will expect significant, active resistance when operating outside their area of support.

Base: Chusheng
Ethnicities: Manchi and Taichi (pop each ~500,000)
Area of support: Nanshan Mountains
Available Manpower: 20,000
Relations with Gov: Excellent, the two ethnic groups are small enough and are the darlings of the government and are at times used to suppress the Kosa and communists. Expect full cooperation, extensive material support (including heavy weapons such as armor and artillery) and training.
Last edited by Canton Territories on Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:02 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Mozria
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Postby Mozria » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:55 am

Well, I have to say that the thread title does not say, purely, "welcome." 欢迎光临 more or less means "(the subject) welcomes," indeterminate of just what it welcomes or what the subject is. The phrase "welcome" is better outlined by 欢迎, which is the first two characters of your title here.

In order to say "this thread welcomes you" to whoever comes here, you should say " 留言板欢迎你." An example of this convention is shown in the song "北京欢迎你" (Beijing Welcomes You). You should give it a listen; it's really catchy.
Last edited by Mozria on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Nova Sylva
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Postby Nova Sylva » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:32 pm

Tagged.

Also, Sylva won't participate directly, but I'd love to take control of one of the factions if that's okay.

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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:59 pm

Mozria wrote:Well, I have to say that the thread title does not say, purely, "welcome." 欢迎光临 or less means "(the subject) welcomes," indeterminate of just what it welcomes or what the subject is. The phrase "welcome" is better outlined by 欢迎, which is the first two characters of your title here.

In order to say "this thread welcomes you" to whoever comes here, you should say " 留言板欢迎你." An example of this convention is shown in the song "北京欢迎你" (Beijing Welcomes You). You should give it a listen; it's really catchy.

Damn, I'm Taiwanese and I'm barely fluent in Mandarin, can't even speak Hokkien, and I'm completely illiterate in Chinese xD I plan on actually learning all that soon though...hopefully.

Anyways so is the Marxist terrorist group operating out of Canton final? Sounds like the best scenario to me.
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Murovanka
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Postby Murovanka » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:15 pm

Mozria wrote:Well, I have to say that the thread title does not say, purely, "welcome." 欢迎光临 more or less means "(the subject) welcomes," indeterminate of just what it welcomes or what the subject is. The phrase "welcome" is better outlined by 欢迎, which is the first two characters of your title here.

In order to say "this thread welcomes you" to whoever comes here, you should say " 留言板欢迎你." An example of this convention is shown in the song "北京欢迎你" (Beijing Welcomes You). You should give it a listen; it's really catchy.


Oh okay, thanks. That's just what I hear everytime I go into Crystal Jade, a chinese restaurant... what I meant more was like Welcome [to our Chinese region]. But as I said, title is temporary, we can change it for something better. The song is great... the skies are so blue...

The Chen Dynasty wrote:Damn, I'm Taiwanese and I'm barely fluent in Mandarin, can't even speak Hokkien, and I'm completely illiterate in Chinese xD I plan on actually learning all that soon though...hopefully.

Anyways so is the Marxist terrorist group operating out of Canton final? Sounds like the best scenario to me.


Sure, we still need to work on the map. I'll also provide with a small write-up on what I have on Canton, including demographics and such. I think I'll have +/- four different militias which will fight alongside the regular army, which are independent and can be controlled by others.
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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:11 pm

So I decided to take an initiative and remake the whole map. Feel free to edit it as you please :) Still a few errors here and there but they're easy fixes

http://imgur.com/gR8imav
Last edited by The Chen Dynasty on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nova Sylva
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Postby Nova Sylva » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:37 pm

The Chen Dynasty wrote:So I decided to take an initiative and remake the whole map. Feel free to edit it as you please :) Still a few errors here and there but they're easy fixes

http://imgur.com/gR8imav


Great job on the map! I love it!

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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:13 pm

Lol thanks, MS paint is the ultimate workhorse :P
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Murovanka
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Postby Murovanka » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:30 pm

Excellent map! Say, could you add mountains ranges? Those are basically the areas shaded in dark. The main terrorist camps will be along the Huanghe Valley with some more secure bases along the Handi river in the large central mountain range to the valley's west (called Huangdi Mountains). I thnk that would be the areas you'd want to move into and destroy.

I want to add village, towns and cities, could you add them along the Handi river and Huanghe valley? I can provide you with the names.
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Canton Territories
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Postby Canton Territories » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:04 am

Okay, I've done the writeup on my nation, if there's anything that you'd like to be changed do tell me.

I think we can start with a devastating terrorist attack by Chen communists on the border, who flee to Canton and escape. That can be like the "spark" for conflict. Chen, would you like to OP this?

City names: Xianggang (Capital, marked with a star on my map, Shuntian, Hejian, Daming, Jinan, Wuding, Henan, Ganzhou, Taiping, Tainan, Changde (yeah randomly picked from wikipedia). You don't have to use all (and take anything that sounds better if you like).

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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:01 am

Alright, I added military bases onto the map as well, maybe label parts of your map and list the names and type of base and I'll put them on mine.

Also for the history of Cantonia, would you mind having a Wanka supported republican revolution instead? Then Cantonia became a protectorate of Wanka, still a symbol of prestige and colonialism, until Sylva freed them. Sorry to ask but that isn't really canon to what I had in mind for the history of Chen ^^"
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Canton Territories
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Postby Canton Territories » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:34 am

Will do for the map.

That's actually even better, will change it :)

Makes much more sense as to why relations still are upheld and explains the Chen/Canton split. Is there anything else?

Also, are we going to call your nation China or Chen? I've opted for the demonym Chinese, but I can change that.
Last edited by Canton Territories on Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Black Reich
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Postby The Black Reich » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:34 am

I'd be interested in getting Reicha involved somehow. I can expect that Marxist insurgents are something that Reicha would not be a fan of... especially if they were, say, trying to establish a major trade agreement with the current power?

Naturally, my other nation, Helmarra, will support whoever Reicha fights, because of the simple tutelage of "The enemy of my enemy... is an effective ally of convenience" ;)

Provided, of course, it's alright for me to get involved?

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Murovanka
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Postby Murovanka » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:12 am

That's no problem at all, perhaps you could support Chen in his efforts? Remember that Canton is the hub for the drug trade and piracy, so you might be interested in doing so... and gives the Marxists a reason to explode a bomb or two in your capital :D

Or, you could take control of a local Canton militia which fights independently against the Chinese. I'm putting several up for "adoption".
Last edited by Murovanka on Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Canton Territories
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Postby Canton Territories » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:34 am

Chen, map has been added to OP, hope it's not too complex (but this degree of detail will be needed I think).

Here's direct link: http://i.imgur.com/5fMJa2D.png

The shaded black areas are for the large metropolitan regions on the coast while the brown areas are mountains. Only cities with populations >50,000 are shown. I think most cities in the Huanghe valley will have roughly 50k-150k inhabitants. There are lots more towns and villages lying strewn around particularly around major roads and rivers; we can make them up as we go along.

Roads also shown to display supply routes, which are really vital for my army esp with the near impassable terrain.
Last edited by Canton Territories on Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:48 am

Thanks! As for my name, it can be used interchangably. There are 4 main names for my country, Chen Dynasty, Great Chen, China, or simply Chen. This is how the later Chinese dynasties were historically called. Officially it's The Enpire of the Great Chen. For the purposes of this rp, since Cantonia and Chen both are Chinese, it's better to use "Chen" as an adjective rather than "Chinese" cause that'll be very confusing :P

Hmmm I might have to enlarge my map to accommodate roads (it's getting reeeaaaly packed), I think we can either use your map for close up detail or I can just make may map bigger. But yeah I'll as the cities for now. I won't be able to update the map til I get home from school though (8 hours from now)
Last edited by The Chen Dynasty on Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Murovanka
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Postby Murovanka » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:14 am

We can use Cantonese and Chinese, I think, to highlight the difference between the two. Or Chennese, a mix?

Yeah might get a bit difficult. We can use yours for a general overview and mine for close-up. Like, use yours for military base staging, preparation and in case I get the chance to whack your airfields. Apropos airfield, adding that and military barracks too.
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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:08 am

The map idea sounds good.

The Cantonese are Chinese though, like how the Min, Wu, and Mandarin are also Han Chinese. So I think "Chen" is better, like how you would say "In China, the Ming soldiers fought against the Shun over the Mandate of Heaven"
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Murovanka
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Postby Murovanka » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:54 am

The Chen Dynasty wrote:The map idea sounds good.

The Cantonese are Chinese though, like how the Min, Wu, and Mandarin are also Han Chinese. So I think "Chen" is better, like how you would say "In China, the Ming soldiers fought against the Shun over the Mandate of Heaven"


lol okay then, after all, we're gonna have a fight and whoever "wins" gets to decide :P

So Chennese as demonym for yours?
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Canton Territories
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Postby Canton Territories » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:30 am

Will set up militia roles in case anyone else is interested tomorrow, and I'll write the OP (mainly revolving around a communist terror attack). What would the communist organization in China be called?

Alternatively, if you wish do go ahead and make the OP and IC thread.

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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:07 pm

Yeah that reference to the Ming was just an example. My demonym is Chen, such as "the Chen troops" or "Chen counterattack" but when describing things like culture it's "Chinese" like "Chinese food". It's confusing but just imagine "Chen" refering to the government and "Chinese" to the people, culture, ect. But since there are two China's right now, Chinese can refer to either Cantonia or Great Chen. (Unless the Cantonians do not identify as being Chinese anymore, then that would be different)

As for militia names...
People's Liberation Front
Revolutionary Party of Cantonia
The Red Militia
The Crimson Liberators
etc.

Anything Red and "liberating" would do
Last edited by The Chen Dynasty on Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Chen Dynasty
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Postby The Chen Dynasty » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:56 pm

New Map is up, I added roads (they actually fit) but couldn't manage to fit all of Canton's cities (they're suppose to be major cities anyways), also I still need the Cantonese bases

Image
A proud Taiwanese-American, TG me anytime!
Political Compass - Economy 2.5 Social 3.38
Pros: USA, Liberty, Gun Rights, Jesus, Israel, Taiwan, Free Market, Traditional Chinese Culture, Military
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Check out my national anthem!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6mRgxRXO40

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Nova Sylva
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Postby Nova Sylva » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:35 pm

The Chen Dynasty wrote:New Map is up, I added roads (they actually fit) but couldn't manage to fit all of Canton's cities (they're suppose to be major cities anyways), also I still need the Cantonese bases

(Image)


do all maps forever right now boi

well, you and Atra. You should seriously combine styles.
Last edited by Nova Sylva on Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Murovanka
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Postby Murovanka » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:57 pm

Looks perfect! I hope I can get the IC up ater today, am a bit busy right now.

Edit: Sorry, gotta finish the next post for SS first so it won't be up yet- I wanna get that done before I move on to the next one. Feel free to do it though and we can start on the build-up.
Last edited by Murovanka on Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Black Reich
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Posts: 164
Founded: Feb 24, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby The Black Reich » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:43 am

Murovanka wrote:That's no problem at all, perhaps you could support Chen in his efforts? Remember that Canton is the hub for the drug trade and piracy, so you might be interested in doing so... and gives the Marxists a reason to explode a bomb or two in your capital :D

Or, you could take control of a local Canton militia which fights independently against the Chinese. I'm putting several up for "adoption".



Aah, missed the part where Canton is all about "Gear and Plunder" :P I think Helmarra with its more "or less" reputable trading policies would be the better option.

A small, highly capable cadre of Helmarran units supporting a Helmarran-funded militia fighting to claim their wider turf during the crisis... eventually forcing Reicha to get involved when other militia target them under the guise of Helmarran sanctioned terrorists... So all of the above, with Reicha stepping in all "WHERE THE F*&^ ARE THOSE HELMARRANS" and everyone else is there going "Dude, where the F*&^ did YOU come from, and why are you just blasting your way through to the Helmarran militia???" (I'm picturing it like The Russians popping into Syria to curbstomp ISIS whilst everyone else is going "WTF RUSSIA")

Ooooh, what a messy little war it will be! :D

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