[Submitted with Governmental Sanction] Commend Ponderosa

[Vancouvia]

The World Assembly,

Cognizant that Ponderosa has been actively engaging in world affairs for more than four years, and has during that time displayed a high standard of professionalism, tact, and positivity;

Recognizing Ponderosa's authorship and publication of an accessible and incredibly beneficial guide on how to present national information in a standardized and aesthetically-pleasing 'wiki' style factbook format;

Understanding that this guide has been viewed tens of thousands of times and has very likely been utilized by thousands of nations in the past years;

Praising the dedication and selflessness that Ponderosa has shown in this venture by continuing to actively assist other nations in the preparation and publication of these 'wiki' style factbooks;

Believing that these actions, having had such a widespread and positive effect on the greater community, are more than sufficient for recognition;

Hereby commends Ponderosa.

[The Silver Sentinel]

Not enough for a commendation.

[Excidium Planetis]

The Security Council,

Cognizant that Ponderosa has been actively engaging in world affairs for more than four years;

Recognizing Ponderosa's authorship of an easy-to-use and incredibly helpful guide on how to present national information in a standardized and aesthetically-pleasing 'wiki' style factbook;

Understanding that this guide has been viewed tens of thousands of times and has very likely been utilized by hundreds of nations in the past two years;

Praising the dedication and selflessness that Ponderosa has shown in this venture by continuing to actively assist other nations in the preparation and publication of these 'wiki' style factbooks;

Believing that these actions, having had such a widespread and positive effect on the greater community, are more than sufficient for recognition;

Hereby proudly commends Ponderosa.

I agree that Ponderosa has been incredibly helpful, but can you flesh it out a bit more?

Maybe dig up some RP events Ponderosa has been in, something else other than just "Ponderosa helped make factbooks"?

[Riftdania]

Not enough for a commendation.

Hit it right on the head. You'll find this is the shared view vanco.

[Vancouvia]

If I did dig through RPs Ponderosa was involved in (which I did, looking through his posts), that's insignificant when compared to the colossal help the guide he wrote is. I don't think anyone should be commended for being involved in RPs because there's thousands of nations who would fit that bill. Ponderosa authored, in my opinion, the most helpful guide in all of NationStates. Adding anything to this would be overshadowed by the guide, and besides, I believe the guide alone is more than sufficient for a commendation, and I would assume almost everyone who used it would agree.

[Helle Thorning-Schmidt]

By those standards, you should also be commending the author of this...

[Kaboomlandia]

Insufficient reasoning.

[Excidium Planetis]

If I did dig through RPs Ponderosa was involved in (which I did, looking through his posts), that's insignificant when compared to the colossal help the guide he wrote is. I don't think anyone should be commended for being involved in RPs because there's thousands of nations who would fit that bill. Ponderosa authored, in my opinion, the most helpful guide in all of NationStates. Adding anything to this would be overshadowed by the guide, and besides, I believe the guide alone is more than sufficient for a commendation, and I would assume almost everyone who used it would agree.

Obviously, the majority of those here do not agree that the template alone is enough for a commendation. Adding the RPs is insignificant next to the template perhaps, but at least gives more stuff, not just "This is all Ponderosa ever did for anyone".

[Riftdania]

If he's assisted in Roleplays - good job. However im not the only person to hold the view that roleolay holds no value in the security council.

[Sainterre]

I'm not confident that Ponderosa's actions merit enough for a commendation. I think that there are more deserving nominees.

[Vancouvia]

If I did dig through RPs Ponderosa was involved in (which I did, looking through his posts), that's insignificant when compared to the colossal help the guide he wrote is. I don't think anyone should be commended for being involved in RPs because there's thousands of nations who would fit that bill. Ponderosa authored, in my opinion, the most helpful guide in all of NationStates. Adding anything to this would be overshadowed by the guide, and besides, I believe the guide alone is more than sufficient for a commendation, and I would assume almost everyone who used it would agree.

Obviously, the majority of those here do not agree that the template alone is enough for a commendation. Adding the RPs is insignificant next to the template perhaps, but at least gives more stuff, not just "This is all Ponderosa ever did for anyone".

No sir, the totality of those currently here agree that the template alone is not enough for a commendation.

I disagree with fluffing up the proposal with insignificant sentences just to make it longer. If it's length you all want then let me break out the thesaurus and see if I can find some longer words.

[Vancouvia]

If he's assisted in Roleplays - good job. However im not the only person to hold the view that roleolay holds no value in the security council.

I find that strange when the vast majority of active nations engage in RP, while a very small minority of nations have ever participated in raiding/defending...

[Riftdania]

To assume all non-roleplayers are members of R/D is a rather narrow-minded one indeed.

You have gameplayers who take part in politics and the like. Members who are only in it for the chats in regions. General users who are after a good debate. F7 users who; well no one knows. NationStates is not polarised by R/D and Roleplay. That is something you need to understand.

It's also not the length that's the issue. It's the complete and utter lack of content. We are commending him for striking oil while creating a template. It's a great template; One I have used myself. I won't dispute that. However It was purely luck. Now in regards to his roleplay impacts; That is all well and good however those who will be voting will have no idea about any of that.

You look at such condemnations on note worthy gameplayers; There are always over 10 major impacting things that they have done. Often having to cut matters out of the proposal down to the sheer size. With this person you are being forced to scrape at the bottom of the barrel.

Sure I can agree NS is more Roleplayer then any other demographic. Does that make them the most powerful? Dear god no.

NationStates is run by gameplayers. This is why gameplayers can get condemnation/commendation a hell of a lot easier. The same reason why Roleplay is seen as irrelevant in the World Assembly's eyes - Even more so in the Security Council. Gameplayers control the Feeders and Sinkers. Gameplayers hold the largest UCR vote.You have a few large regions vote stack and a proposal dies.

If it holds no relevance (as it does) to anyone who holds a lot of votes then it is doomed to fail. You'd be best to listen to people or we'll see a repeat of your last proposal which ultimately got lots of submissions and lots of failures.

[Excidium Planetis]

To assume all non-roleplayers are members of R/D is a rather narrow-minded one indeed.

You have gameplayers who take part in politics and the like. Members who are only in it for the chats in regions. General users who are after a good debate. F7 users who; well no one knows. NationStates is not polarised by R/D and Roleplay. That is something you need to understand.

It's also not the length that's the issue. It's the complete and utter lack of content. We are commending him for striking oil while creating a template. It's a great template; One I have used myself. I won't dispute that. However It was purely luck. Now in regards to his roleplay impacts; That is all well and good however those who will be voting will have no idea about any of that.

You look at such condemnations on note worthy gameplayers; There are always over 10 major impacting things that they have done. Often having to cut matters out of the proposal down to the sheer size. With this person you are being forced to scrape at the bottom of the barrel.

Sure I can agree NS is more Roleplayer then any other demographic. Does that make them the most powerful? Dear god no.

NationStates is run by gameplayers. This is why gameplayers can get condemnation/commendation a hell of a lot easier. The same reason why Roleplay is seen as irrelevant in the World Assembly's eyes - Even more so in the Security Council. Gameplayers control the Feeders and Sinkers. Gameplayers hold the largest UCR vote.You have a few large regions vote stack and a proposal dies.

If it holds no relevance (as it does) to anyone who holds a lot of votes then it is doomed to fail. You'd be best to listen to people or we'll see a repeat of your last proposal which ultimately got lots of submissions and lots of failures.

I don't believe Vancouvia ever implied all non-roleplayers engaged in R/D. Vancouvia merely said more nations engage in roleplay than R/D, which I believe is true.

On the otherhand, you are assuming that all the major Gameplayers who control things aren't also Roleplayers. You say that Gameplayers control the Feeders and Sinkers. Are they all strictly Gameplayers, or are they also Roleplayers? The majority of UCRs... Strictly Gameplay, or a mix of both?

I think you will find that a whole lot of the major power players are Roleplayers, even if they are also Gameplayers.

[Riftdania]

To assume all non-roleplayers are members of R/D is a rather narrow-minded one indeed.

You have gameplayers who take part in politics and the like. Members who are only in it for the chats in regions. General users who are after a good debate. F7 users who; well no one knows. NationStates is not polarised by R/D and Roleplay. That is something you need to understand.

It's also not the length that's the issue. It's the complete and utter lack of content. We are commending him for striking oil while creating a template. It's a great template; One I have used myself. I won't dispute that. However It was purely luck. Now in regards to his roleplay impacts; That is all well and good however those who will be voting will have no idea about any of that.

You look at such condemnations on note worthy gameplayers; There are always over 10 major impacting things that they have done. Often having to cut matters out of the proposal down to the sheer size. With this person you are being forced to scrape at the bottom of the barrel.

Sure I can agree NS is more Roleplayer then any other demographic. Does that make them the most powerful? Dear god no.

NationStates is run by gameplayers. This is why gameplayers can get condemnation/commendation a hell of a lot easier. The same reason why Roleplay is seen as irrelevant in the World Assembly's eyes - Even more so in the Security Council. Gameplayers control the Feeders and Sinkers. Gameplayers hold the largest UCR vote.You have a few large regions vote stack and a proposal dies.

If it holds no relevance (as it does) to anyone who holds a lot of votes then it is doomed to fail. You'd be best to listen to people or we'll see a repeat of your last proposal which ultimately got lots of submissions and lots of failures.

I don't believe Vancouvia ever implied all non-roleplayers engaged in R/D. Vancouvia merely said more nations engage in roleplay than R/D, which I believe is true.

On the otherhand, you are assuming that all the major Gameplayers who control things aren't also Roleplayers. You say that Gameplayers control the Feeders and Sinkers. Are they all strictly Gameplayers, or are they also Roleplayers? The majority of UCRs... Strictly Gameplay, or a mix of both?

I think you will find that a whole lot of the major power players are Roleplayers, even if they are also Gameplayers.

His wording says otherwise. Feel free to ready below. x (Emphasis mine)

If he's assisted in Roleplays - good job. However im not the only person to hold the view that roleolay holds no value in the security council.

I find that strange when the vast majority of active nations engage in RP, while a very small minority of nations have ever participated in raiding/defending...

He most certainly did.

That's not my assumption at all. I know a lot of them and across my time on here have seen their views on things. It's a fairly shared view that roleplay related achievements in SC recognition is never going to be enough. Ever. Merely being a roleplayer of the side (Which I have been known to do) does not mean they're going to be a bleeding heart and vote for him cause he help a particular sphere.

You are also right after the UCR thing. However the larger ones you will find not only operate like GCRs but are usually gameplay focused.

Again - I never once stated they aren't roleplayers. It's very common to take part in the pair. I have merely stated that RP hasn't been seen as something relevant to the SC for as long as I've been around. Regardless of it being RP; Even if they were two separate gameplay achievements. That still wouldn't be enough.

[Vancouvia]

To assume all non-roleplayers are members of R/D is a rather narrow-minded one indeed.

You have gameplayers who take part in politics and the like. Members who are only in it for the chats in regions. General users who are after a good debate. F7 users who; well no one knows. NationStates is not polarised by R/D and Roleplay. That is something you need to understand.

It's also not the length that's the issue. It's the complete and utter lack of content. We are commending him for striking oil while creating a template. It's a great template; One I have used myself. I won't dispute that. However It was purely luck. Now in regards to his roleplay impacts; That is all well and good however those who will be voting will have no idea about any of that.

You look at such condemnations on note worthy gameplayers; There are always over 10 major impacting things that they have done. Often having to cut matters out of the proposal down to the sheer size. With this person you are being forced to scrape at the bottom of the barrel.

Sure I can agree NS is more Roleplayer then any other demographic. Does that make them the most powerful? Dear god no.

NationStates is run by gameplayers. This is why gameplayers can get condemnation/commendation a hell of a lot easier. The same reason why Roleplay is seen as irrelevant in the World Assembly's eyes - Even more so in the Security Council. Gameplayers control the Feeders and Sinkers. Gameplayers hold the largest UCR vote.You have a few large regions vote stack and a proposal dies.

If it holds no relevance (as it does) to anyone who holds a lot of votes then it is doomed to fail. You'd be best to listen to people or we'll see a repeat of your last proposal which ultimately got lots of submissions and lots of failures.

To say his guide became popular due to luck is absolutely bizarre. He spent a lot of time writing a very well thought out and easy to understand guide, that was then actually used to many peoples' benefit. To chock effort up to luck makes me almost think you're purposefully playing devil's advocate.

Now onto your 'no one will have any idea about that': his factbook is the 2nd most upvoted factbook entry ever, and almost the first. His guide is stickied in Factbooks and National Information. If there's anyone in the roleplay community who people have heard of it's probably the guy who wrote the factbook guide they use. So if you want to back peddle on your statement that no one's ever heard of the guy's impacts, I won't blame you.

If I really wanted I could dip my hand into the barrel and look around for 8 things I could post on up there, but there is no need to do that when literally everyone one of them would be out-shined by his greatest contribution to the site, which is by itself just as if not more significant than many of the other contributions people get commended for.

[Vancouvia]

Of course I don't think NationStates has only RP and R/D. For you to even waste time typing up that to try to rack up a little ad hominem points is asinine and frivolous.

[Excidium Planetis]

I don't believe Vancouvia ever implied all non-roleplayers engaged in R/D. Vancouvia merely said more nations engage in roleplay than R/D, which I believe is true.

On the otherhand, you are assuming that all the major Gameplayers who control things aren't also Roleplayers. You say that Gameplayers control the Feeders and Sinkers. Are they all strictly Gameplayers, or are they also Roleplayers? The majority of UCRs... Strictly Gameplay, or a mix of both?

I think you will find that a whole lot of the major power players are Roleplayers, even if they are also Gameplayers.

His wording says otherwise. Feel free to ready below. x (Emphasis mine)

I find that strange when the vast majority of active nations engage in RP, while a very small minority of nations have ever participated in raiding/defending...

He most certainly did.

He most certainly did not. Those two are not mutually exclusive. The "very small minority" that engages in raiding/defending can also engage in roleplay. Let's say, for simplicity's sake, that half of Raiders/Defenders also roleplay.

Now, Let's say 60% of all active NS users are roleplayers, and 10% of all active players are Raiders/Defenders, of which 5% are also Roleplayers. Clearly, there are roleplayers who are gameplayers, and vice versa, and clearly 35% of active players are non-roleplayers but don't participate in R/D, but Vancouvia's statements are true. The majority of active players are roleplayers, while only a small minority participates in R/D.

That's not my assumption at all. I know a lot of them and across my time on here have seen their views on things. It's a fairly shared view that roleplay related achievements in SC recognition is never going to be enough. Ever. Merely being a roleplayer of the side (Which I have been known to do) does not mean they're going to be a bleeding heart and vote for him cause he help a particular sphere.

You are also right after the UCR thing. However the larger ones you will find not only operate like GCRs but are usually gameplay focused.

And that's what Vancouvia and I think is odd. Why do Gameplay achievements merit SC recognition, but Roleplay achievements do not, even when most active players are Roleplayers?

Again - I never once stated they aren't roleplayers. It's very common to take part in the pair. I have merely stated that RP hasn't been seen as something relevant to the SC for as long as I've been around. Regardless of it being RP; Even if they were two separate gameplay achievements. That still wouldn't be enough.[/quote]

[Ramaeus]

I have no idea who this is. Reading the proposal only leaves me with more questions than answers.

[Vancouvia]

I have no idea who this is. Reading the proposal only leaves me with more questions than answers.

Here you go: it was stickied at the top of the first forum: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=256878

[Riftdania]

To say his guide became popular due to luck is absolutely bizarre. He spent a lot of time writing a very well thought out and easy to understand guide, that was then actually used to many peoples' benefit. To chock effort up to luck makes me almost think you're purposefully playing devil's advocate.

Now onto your 'no one will have any idea about that': his factbook is the 2nd most upvoted factbook entry ever, and almost the first. His guide is stickied in Factbooks and National Information. If there's anyone in the roleplay community who people have heard of it's probably the guy who wrote the factbook guide they use. So if you want to back peddle on your statement that no one's ever heard of the guy's impacts, I won't blame you.

If I really wanted I could dip my hand into the barrel and look around for 8 things I could post on up there, but there is no need to do that when literally everyone one of them would be out-shined by his greatest contribution to the site, which is by itself just as if not more significant than many of the other contributions people get commended for.

My view on the matter is it was luck. There are many brilliant dispatches which merely get glanced over which could have been better. Have you spoken to him on the matter? If we are commending him for the second highest dispatch which benefits roleplayers only; Why not commend the owner of the highest voted disptach nullarni as his helps all sides of NS? Regardless even his dispatch doesn't warrant recognition from the SC

There are a bunch of user submitted guides. They are submitted to be read and that is all. If we are recognising everyone who does it then we'd be here all day. Gameplayers would be first in line regardless. Beside all that we aren't and never will be.

Umm I won't back pedal at all. Roleplayers may have heard of him; However the people you need to be convinving mostly likely haven't

I have no idea who this is. Reading the proposal only leaves me with more questions than answers.

Ram and myself. That there is already 476 (plus the members who follow delegate) votes looking at this oddly. With either not knowing who this is or not feeling it's worthy. Hell you have two fellow SC authors making clear this is a unfounded proposal.

If there is no need for it - then don't. However as I just said; This may reach the floor but it won't pass without something that actually means something. Feel free not to get eight of achievements as you said.

Of course I don't think NationStates has only RP and R/D. For you to even waste time typing up that to try to rack up a little ad hominem points is asinine and frivolous.

Sure~

Why do Gameplay achievements merit SC recognition, but Roleplay achievements do not, even when most active players are Roleplayers?

Because what we do impacts on everyone regardless of them wanting it.

A roleplayer wins some war - It has no bearing on me. Gameplayers run the World Assembly and decide if your proposal passes. Gameplayers destroy or protect your regions. Gameplayers lead most of the world. Ultimatly they are on top and that's all there is to it.

Even if the most active players roleplay - It doesn't matter. Why? Because the most powerful players aren't.

It won't change.

[Vancouvia]

You're overestimating this "gameplayer" faction and underestimating the general WA population and the non-feeders/sinkers.

I'm not going to dismiss this proposal; I will improve it, hopefully with constructive suggestions from other people. If you're going to keep repeating yourself telling me to give it up then you're barking up the wrong tree, because I genuinely feel that 1. Ponderosa deserves recognition for this and 2. the general WA population has a fair chance of agreeing with that notion.

[Riftdania]

You're overestimating this "gameplayer" faction and underestimating the general WA population and the non-feeders/sinkers.

I'm not going to dismiss this proposal; I will improve it, hopefully with constructive suggestions from other people. If you're going to keep repeating yourself telling me to give it up then you're barking up the wrong tree, because I genuinely feel that 1. Ponderosa deserves recognition for this and 2. the general WA population has a fair chance of agreeing with that notion.

If you honestly believe that first Sentence - I feel as if discussing this proposal with you is useless. Just can brand it now as not passing and move on. The general WA population are a bunch off Sheepstates who will vote with whatever has the lead. There isn't even a need to vote stack. This will just have GCRs and UCRs alike turning their nose up at it. Then no matter how many Roleplayers have; They'll follow the common view that it's against.

Anyway as I said - If that's what you think then so be it. Just continue to ignore the side eyeing from three SC authors and that a few large voting regions are already looking at this poorly.

[Vancouvia]

You're overestimating this "gameplayer" faction and underestimating the general WA population and the non-feeders/sinkers.

I'm not going to dismiss this proposal; I will improve it, hopefully with constructive suggestions from other people. If you're going to keep repeating yourself telling me to give it up then you're barking up the wrong tree, because I genuinely feel that 1. Ponderosa deserves recognition for this and 2. the general WA population has a fair chance of agreeing with that notion.

If you honestly believe that first Sentence - I feel as if discussing this proposal with you is useless. Just can brand it now as not passing and move on. The general WA population are a bunch off Sheepstates who will vote with whatever has the lead. There isn't even a need to vote stack. This will just have GCRs and UCRs alike turning their nose up at it. Then no matter how many Roleplayers have; They'll follow the common view that it's against.

Anyway as I said - If that's what you think then so be it. Just continue to ignore the side eyeing from three SC authors and that a few large voting regions are already looking at this poorly.

Good I agree, discussing this with you is useless. It is literally the definition of pointlessness.

[Excidium Planetis]

Why do Gameplay achievements merit SC recognition, but Roleplay achievements do not, even when most active players are Roleplayers?

Because what we do impacts on everyone regardless of them wanting it.

A roleplayer wins some war - It has no bearing on me. Gameplayers run the World Assembly and decide if your proposal passes. Gameplayers destroy or protect your regions. Gameplayers lead most of the world. Ultimatly they are on top and that's all there is to it.

Even if the most active players roleplay - It doesn't matter. Why? Because the most powerful players aren't.

It won't change.

Wrong. Gameplayers have no effect on me as a nation unless I want it to have an effect. It has no bearing on me if a WA resolution banning child labor passes unless I choose to join the WA, unless I choose to RP with the WA as canon.

Raiders can't even take regions with active founders, or passwords without an SC resolution, so 90% of R/D is by native choice or apathy.

And even if Raiders took my region and kicked me out, that has no bearing on my roleplay at all. Gameplayers can't change my roleplay. I can roleplay just as well in The Pacific as I can in The United Federation of Planets.

The fact of the matter is that Gameplayers affect Gameplay, and Roleplayers affect Roleplay. No one has any more power than the other.