Return of Gulags?

[Bratislavskaya]

Tbh, I don't see what any particular problem people have with the GULag program. It really isn't much different than a work-in-prison program except that the early USSR had more demanding projects that it had to put people to work on than what would be found in a more stable and already developed economy.

This. It wouldn't be too bad of an idea provided there isn't a large frozen uninhabited area that needs to be filled with railways and industrialised. Then again, if people are going down for a life sentence (not a 20 year life sentence, and actual "you will not leave prison unless you die" sentence) I could also see a use for it.

[Confederate Ramenia]

Tbh, I don't see what any particular problem people have with the GULag program. It really isn't much different than a work-in-prison program except that the early USSR had more demanding projects that it had to put people to work on than what would be found in a more stable and already developed economy.

This. It wouldn't be too bad of an idea provided there isn't a large frozen uninhabited area that needs to be filled with railways and industrialised. Then again, if people are going down for a life sentence (not a 20 year life sentence, and actual "you will not leave prison unless you die" sentence) I could also see a use for it.

For me it's not so much the work at prison, I actually prefer prisoners working at prison to prisoners just sitting around. It's just that the historical Gulag system in the USSR had huge abuses of prisoners and human rights problems, as well as the huge numbers of people who died there and those sent just for political dissidence.

[Gatito]

We can't stop at just 13 gulags.

Stahp, you're gonna trigger the Super Stalin transformation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnQezjzOALY

[Republic of Coldwater]

For homophobes, I see no reason to persecute them. Sure, they may be bigoted, but the views of one person shouldn't warrant the persecution of them. Its just a god damn belief, and if they believe so, whatever, the beliefs themselves are harmless, and do not undermine a civilized society.

Otherwise, as much as I loathe rapists, murderers and other uncivilized people, I do not think that committing said crimes warrant such terrible treatment. Yes, what they did was cruel, but by macerating their soul in an atrotious prison will not elevate any party, but bring down the state to the level of these repulsive beings, as if the state isn't repulsive enough.

[New Chalcedon]

We already have gulags in Australia. They're called "Immigration Detention Centers".

[Confederate Ramenia]

We already have gulags in Australia. They're called "Immigration Detention Centers".

Wow

[Laniakean Consciousness]

It may work, but it may go severely wrong.

[Sphinxii]

homophobes

HOMOPHOBES in Gulags? Why don't we also put Hindus, Muslims, and people who like eating chicken. Freedom of speech is a thing, at least in most countries.

[CoraSpia]

No...just...no. If a state is keeping people in custody, it should do it in humane conditions.

[Bratislavskaya]

This. It wouldn't be too bad of an idea provided there isn't a large frozen uninhabited area that needs to be filled with railways and industrialised. Then again, if people are going down for a life sentence (not a 20 year life sentence, and actual "you will not leave prison unless you die" sentence) I could also see a use for it.

For me it's not so much the work at prison, I actually prefer prisoners working at prison to prisoners just sitting around. It's just that the historical Gulag system in the USSR had huge abuses of prisoners and human rights problems, as well as the huge numbers of people who died there and those sent just for political dissidence.

So really you only have a problem with the suggestion of the name Gulag.

[New Werpland]

We already have gulags in Australia. They're called "Immigration Detention Centers".

And Nauru is your Siberia.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Is anyone curious about who picked 'other'?

[CoraSpia]

Is anyone curious about who picked 'other'?

Their shouldn't really be much scope for 'other' with a yes or no question.

[Gatito]

Is anyone curious about who picked 'other'?

The world may never know.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Is anyone curious about who picked 'other'?

Their shouldn't really be much scope for 'other' with a yes or no question.

I know, but I still really want to know who picked it!

[The Cobalt Sky]

Is anyone curious about who picked 'other'?

The world may never know.

There should be a 'greatest mysteries of NS' thread.

[CoraSpia]

Also...homophobes?
No...just no. You're not putting my grandparents in gulags, no matter how messed up their views are.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Also...homophobes?
No...just no. You're not putting my grandparents in gulags, no matter how messed up their views are.

Aww, come on... Don't you want to see meemaw do hard labor?

[Risottia]

Tbh, I don't see what any particular problem people have with the GULag program. It really isn't much different than a work-in-prison program except that the early USSR had more demanding projects that it had to put people to work on than what would be found in a more stable and already developed economy.

I have problem with any country RELYING on prison work as a key point of its economy, instead of using prison work as a restitution, rehabilitation and re-education tool. As soon as prison work becomes economically profitable, whomever is in charge of prisons ABUSES of prison work and of incarceration.

[Alvisiror]

Should Gulags return, but only for rapists, homophobes, and those who had commited severe crimes and continue this behaviour despite going to prison and going to rehabilitation courses?

So according to you someone that is anti-gay but has not committed any felonies is as bad a rapist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's next? Lets round up everyone with a Confederate flag even though some people see it as a sense of pride and are not racist.

Do you have any idea what the conditions in a gulag actually were?
I suggest you read Alexander Solzhenitsyn's "One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich"

[Threlizdun]

What do you know, it's a Marxist that doesn't account for the structural conditions responsible for intolerance and violence and rather advocates placing blame exclusively on individuals and advocating suffering as "justice".

[Egoman]

Please no. I can't be assed to move anywhere far from here to do shit work for no pay for having done something 'bad'.

[Celsuis]

Wow. The death penalty doesn't deter criminals, so let's just work them to death! That will certainly work! Let's just work "inhumane, filthy" people to death! I hope you people realize that 2-10 million people died in Soviet-era gulags, if not more. And yes! Let's dehumanize criminals and certain groups of people! That certainly went well in 1940s Europe... The fact that people actually agree with this idea is disgusting and makes me want to question my faith in humanity.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. SMH

[United Marxist Nations]

Wow. The death penalty doesn't deter criminals, so let's just work them to death! That will certainly work! Let's just work "inhumane, filthy" people to death! I hope you people realize that 2-10 million people died in Soviet-era gulags, if not more. And yes! Let's dehumanize criminals and certain groups of people! That certainly went well in 1940s Europe... The fact that people actually agree with this idea is disgusting and makes me want to question my faith in humanity.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. SMH

The "10 milion" claim is entirely baseless, because we do have the actual figures:

According to a 1993 study of archival Soviet data, a total of 1,053,829 people died in the Gulag from 1934–53 (there is no archival data for the period 1918-1934).[6] However, taking into account frequently dubious record keeping, and the fact that it was common practice to release prisoners who were either suffering from incurable diseases or on the point of death,[17][18] independent estimates of the actual Gulag death toll are usually higher. Some estimates are as low as 1.6 million deaths during the whole period from 1929 to 1953,[19]

A ten million figure would require that more than half of those in the system died, which we know isn't true, because records show us that more people were released than ever died.

As you can see, the death rate in GULag was under 20%, so the goal was hardly "working them to death". Average sentence wasn't even that long.

Here are some higher-end death estimates:

Mortality in Gulag camps in 1934–40 was 4–6 times higher than average in Russia. The estimated total number of those who died in imprisonment in 1930–53 is at least 1.76 million, about half of which occurred between 1941–43 following the German invasion.[73][74] If prisoner deaths from labor colonies and special settlements are included, the death toll rises to 2,749,163

These data allowed scholars to conclude that during the period of 1928–53, about 14 million prisoners passed through the system of GULAG labour camps and 4-5 million passed through the labour colonies.[12] Thus, these figures reflect the number of convicted persons, and do not take into account the fact that a significant part of Gulag inmates had been convicted more than one time, so the actual number of convicted is somewhat overstated by these statistics.[17] From other hand, during some periods of Gulag history the official figures of GULAG population reflected the camps' capacity, not the actual amount of inmates, so the actual figures were 15% higher in, e.g. 1946.[12]

2: Steven Rosefielde. Red Holocaust. Routledge, 2009. ISBN 0-415-77757-7 pg. 67 "...more complete archival data increases camp deaths by 19.4 percent to 1,258,537"; pg 77: "The best archivally based estimate of Gulag excess deaths at present is 1.6 million from 1929 to 1953."

[Takistan DR]

No, this is wrong. We should focus on re-education through hard labor and not treating criminals better than innocent citizens. Hotel like prisons and short sentences are encouraging crime. We shouldn't call them Gulags tho, as it was a russian abbreviation. Maybe betterment settlements or something...