Leftists have, can, and should oppose Islam

[Napkiraly]

They act in the same way as traditional religions, and serve the same purpose.

They don't believe in a supernatural power, so they aren't religions.

Tbf Juche pretty much puts the Kim family on the same level as Gods. What with saying they can control weather and whatnot. Actual Zeus Kim Jong-Il.

[Ardoki]

They act in the same way as traditional religions, and serve the same purpose.

But they aren't religions. They are ideologies and weren't made to replace religion.

Put it this way: just becaise I act like a dog doesn't mean I'm a dog.

They actually were made to replace religion. They are termed political religions by political scientists, and are classed as a type (or derivative) of religion.

[Ardoki]

They act in the same way as traditional religions, and serve the same purpose.

They don't believe in a supernatural power, so they aren't religions.

That doesn't mean they aren't religions.

"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Definitions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_religion

[Victoriala]

But they aren't religions. They are ideologies and weren't made to replace religion.

Put it this way: just becaise I act like a dog doesn't mean I'm a dog.

They actually were made to replace religion. They are termed political religions by political scientists, and are classed as a type (or derivative) of religion.

I'm not gonna argue definitions here.

Communism, Fascism and the like don't actually relate its adherents to existential scale of the cosmos and only work out to succeed a particular goal for society.

[Ardoki]

They actually were made to replace religion. They are termed political religions by political scientists, and are classed as a type (or derivative) of religion.

I'm not gonna argue definitions here.

Communism, Fascism and the like don't actually relate its adherents to existential scale of the cosmos and only workout to succeed a particular goal for society.

You still subscribe to a very narrow and outdated definition of religion.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I'm not gonna argue definitions here.

Communism, Fascism and the like don't actually relate its adherents to existential scale of the cosmos and only workout to succeed a particular goal for society.

You still subscribe to a very narrow and outdated definition of religion.

No, you subscribe to an extremely broad and inaccurate definition.

[Pandeeria]

"Political Religion" is a fucking awful term.

I'm guessing that's just an opinion held without reason.

Political Religion is terrible. A cult of personality is nothing compared to actual religious doctrine under a deity, and nations that followed these so called "political religions" have rather been state-atheist or very theocratic.

[Pandeeria]

They don't believe in a supernatural power, so they aren't religions.

Tbf Juche pretty much puts the Kim family on the same level as Gods. What with saying they can control weather and whatnot. Actual Zeus Kim Jong-Il.

Juche also proclaims itself to be an atheistic ideology. For comparisons sake, they put the Kim dynasty more on the level of Jesus or a similar figure.

[Ardoki]

You still subscribe to a very narrow and outdated definition of religion.

No, you subscribe to an extremely broad and inaccurate definition.

That is your opinion.

We may disagree on many things, I have the feeling we do politically.

However the definition I use is also used by a lot of experts on religion and political science. So it isn't some made up definition.

[Ardoki]

I'm guessing that's just an opinion held without reason.

Political Religion is terrible. A cult of personality is nothing compared to actual religious doctrine under a deity, and nations that followed these so called "political religions" have rather been state-atheist or very theocratic.

You do know what a theocracy is right?

Lets just disregard what I said earlier about the replacement and emulation of traditional religion.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

No, you subscribe to an extremely broad and inaccurate definition.

That is your opinion.

We may disagree on many things, I have the feeling we do politically.

However the definition I use is also used by a lot of experts on religion and political science. So it isn't some made up definition.

Your whole thing about, ya know, liking the State, might be an issue. That whole authoritarianism thing too.

[Ardoki]

That is your opinion.

We may disagree on many things, I have the feeling we do politically.

However the definition I use is also used by a lot of experts on religion and political science. So it isn't some made up definition.

Your whole thing about, ya know, liking the State, might be an issue. That whole authoritarianism thing too.

Judging by your flag, I'm assuming you are far-right, which is pretty authoritarian.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Your whole thing about, ya know, liking the State, might be an issue. That whole authoritarianism thing too.

Judging by your flag, I'm assuming you are far-right, which is pretty authoritarian.

Judging by my flag, you'd be... slightly off. Open my Call Me Pruss spoiler and click "Ego Sum."

[Ardoki]

Judging by your flag, I'm assuming you are far-right, which is pretty authoritarian.

Judging by my flag, you'd be... slightly off. Open my Call Me Pruss spoiler and click "Ego Sum."

But that flag is often used by neo-nazis, as they are prohibited from flying the nazi flag in Germany. Sorry for the mistake.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Judging by my flag, you'd be... slightly off. Open my Call Me Pruss spoiler and click "Ego Sum."

But that flag is often used by neo-nazis, as they are prohibited from flying the nazi flag in Germany. Sorry for the mistake.

I've never seen that, but okay. *shrugs* I'm ancestrally Prussian and like that shit.

*revels in his anarchism, feminism, etc*

But back on topic.

[Ardoki]

But that flag is often used by neo-nazis, as they are prohibited from flying the nazi flag in Germany. Sorry for the mistake.

I've never seen that, but okay. *shrugs* I'm ancestrally Prussian and like that shit.

*revels in his anarchism, feminism, etc*

But back on topic.

They also use the flag of the German Empire.

[Victoriala]

I'm not gonna argue definitions here.

Communism, Fascism and the like don't actually relate its adherents to existential scale of the cosmos and only workout to succeed a particular goal for society.

You still subscribe to a very narrow and outdated definition of religion.

And yours is the correct one? Keks.

You follow dictionary definitions way too hard.

[Iwanoji]

I'm very critical of religion, but I'm not against religion. That feeling encompasses my feelings towards Islam. I'm critical of Islam but I'm not opposed to islam just like I'm not opposed to religion as a whole.

[Confederate Ramenia]

u wot m8

[Elredan]

I consider myself a leftist (broadly speaking), and it irritates me immensely when I see people say things along the lines of "leftists/multiculturalists/cultural Marxists (whatever the hell that means) are supporting Muslims and Islam". Do people not know the history of the left-wing and its admirable struggle against organized religion across the globe?http://forum.nationstates.net/posting.php?mode=quote&f=20&p=24639025&sid=1b6e35892ab328905f7f3bd029269d5c#

• The original leftists, the French revolutionaries, were immensely anti-clerical and opposed to the Catholic Church. They carried out one of the world's first modern de-Christianization campaigns.
• The leftist regime of Plutarcho Elias Calles led a great pro-secular, anti-clerical campaign against the Catholic Church in Mexico.
• The leftist Young Turks and later Kemalists of Turkey promoted secularism, created a progressive republican nation-state, and abolished the Caliphate. They banned the hijab from public places and greatly promoted women's rights.
• The Bolsheviks stomped Islam out of public life in Central Asia, and gave unprecedented rights and freedom to Central Asian women.
• The Soviets fought to support the socialist government in Afghanistan and uphold civilization and progress against the uncivilized and backwards Islamists. After the Soviets withdrew and the Taliban established their dominance by the mid-90s, Afghanistan was plunged into a regressive, barbaric, quasi-medieval state of hellish proportions.
• In my own country of Telangana, Communists organized a great peasant rebellion in the 1940s against oppressive landlords and the Islamic state of Hyderabad.

This is just a small list, and can probably be extended easily. Given this glorious history of fighting against religious barbarism and backwardness on all continents of the globe, are modern leftists too pusillanimous with regards to Islam? Have leftists forgotten what it means to be a leftist?

I think I understand the confusion, you are right-wing.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

The leftist Young Turks and later Kemalists of Turkey promoted secularism, created a progressive republican nation-state, and abolished the Caliphate. They banned the hijab from public places and greatly promoted women's rights.

Yes, and they also commited the genocide of 1.2 million Armenians, over 1 million Greeks, and around 1 million Assyrians, as well as many Jews, Gypsys, Slavs, Arabs, Russians, etc.

Oh; and they believed in an insane propaganda that Turkic peoples were present in The Anatolian Peninsula for 4000 years; when it was really more like 700-800 years at the time. And they systematically oppressed and discriminated against Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Arabs and other minorities. They took the Greek people's homes who they killed and deported; and moved Turks into them. All because they believed that they were superior to these minorities; even though ethnic groups such as Greeks had lived in Anatolia for over 4000 years.

[Neo Telangana]

I think I understand the confusion, you are right-wing.

Why? Because I support the principles of actual left-wing movements throughout history?

Is it your opinion that all of the historical events I mentioned in the OP were right-wing in nature? The French revolutionaries, Mexican revolutionaries, Young Turks, and Bolsheviks were all "right-wingers"?

[Anollasia]

Before anyone else, posts in this thread, people should know Islam is a religion, not an ideology.

Some are very well aware of that fact, but the pedantrophilia (pedantry) in me wants to remind you ideology while not the entirety of a religion is a facet of it.

What?

[Anollasia]

I'm very critical of religion, but I'm not against religion. That feeling encompasses my feelings towards Islam. I'm critical of Islam but I'm not opposed to islam just like I'm not opposed to religion as a whole.

Being Muslim, I'm critical of some aspects such as sharia or hijab.