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[DEFEATED] Responsible Arms Transfers

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Sciongrad
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[DEFEATED] Responsible Arms Transfers

Postby Sciongrad » Thu May 14, 2015 4:44 pm

Category: Global Disarmament | Strength: Mild | Proposed by: Sciongrad


The General Assembly,

Reaffirming its commitment to promoting international peace and goodwill,

Recognizing the extreme hazard to national populations posed by the unregulated trade of armaments,

Hoping to limit the involvement of member nations and their citizens in violence made possible by the aforementioned unregulated trade of armaments,

1. Defines "armament" as military equipment, specifically weapons and ammunition, which possesses a practical application in military conflict, including the designs or subassemblies necessary in their construction or production;

2. Defines "transfer" as the movement of an armament from one member nation, political subdivision thereof, or non-state entity associated with a member nation to any other such entity, including non-member nations and non-state entities not associated with any nation;

3. Defines "end-user certificate" as an affidavit completed by the buyer of armaments subject to the provisions of this resolution which verifies that said buyer is the final recipient of the product;

4. Defines "conquest" as the acquisition of territory through military force by a successful state at the expense of another state; for the purpose of this resolution, conquest shall not include:
  1. instances where member nations seek to neutralize hostile states that pose a persistent or existential threat to their sovereignty or security or
  2. instances where member nations seek to reclaim territory taken from them by force with no intervening period of de facto peace;
5. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting:
  1. those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law,
  2. future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or
  3. future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;
6. Requires all manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of armaments within member nations to register with the relevant governments of the nations in which they operate and the terms of such a registration shall, at minimum, encompass the provisions of this resolution;

7. Mandates that the export of armaments by any manufacturer, exporter, or broker operating within a member nation shall make the transfer of their armaments to an intended final recipient conditional on the completion of an end-user certificate by the buyer;

8. Urges member nations to implement systems of end-use monitoring to ensure that the end-user certificate is authentic, when possible;

9. Prohibits the international transfer of armaments if:
  1. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used in contravention of extant World Assembly legislation on human rights,
  2. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be diverted from their originally intended recipient, except in instances where the transfer is absolutely necessary in protecting national security, provided that even those transfers do not violate the other provisions of this resolution or,
  3. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used to initiate, or aid the party conducting, a war of conquest and;
10. Further prohibits the transfer of armaments to non-member nations with the intent of transferring them to nations where the aforementioned circumstances apply.


The General Assembly,

Reaffirming its position of international peace and goodwill,

Recognizing the extreme hazard to national populations posed by the unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

Hoping to limit the involvement of member nations and their citizens in violence made possible by the aforementioned unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

1. Defines the term "armament" as military equipment, specifically weapons and ammunition, which possess a practical application in military conflict, including the parts necessary in their construction or production;

2. Defines the term "transfer" as the movement of an armament from one member nation, political subdivisions thereof, or non-state entities associated with a member nation to any other such entity, including non-member nations and non-state entities not associated with any nation;

3. Defines term "end-user certificate" as an affidavit completed by the buyer of armaments subject to the provisions of this resolution which verifies that said buyer is the final recipient of the product;

4. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law, future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;

5. Requires all manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of armaments within member nations to register with the relevant government(s) of the nation(s) in which they operate, and the terms of such a registration shall, at minimum, encompass the provisions of this resolution;

6. Mandates that the export of armaments by any manufacturer, exporter, or broker operating within a member nation shall make the sale of their armaments conditional on the completion of an end-user certificate by the buyer; member nations are strongly urged to implement systems of end-use monitoring to ensure that the end-user certificate is authentic, when possible;

7. Prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments if:
  1. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used in contravention of extant World Assembly legislation on human rights,
  2. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be diverted from their originally intended recipient, or
  3. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used to initiate, or aid the aggressor in, a war of conquest or expropriation;
[/list]
8. Further prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments to non-member nations with the intent of then transferring them to nations where the aforementioned circumstances apply.[/box]

[spoiler=Draft 3]
The General Assembly,

Reaffirming its position of promoting international peace and goodwill,

Recognizing the extreme hazard to national populations posed by the unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

Hoping to limit the involvement of member nations and their citizens in violence made possible by the aforementioned unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

1. Defines the term "armament" as military equipment, specifically weapons and ammunition, which possess a practical application in military conflict, including the subassemblies necessary in their construction or production;

2. Defines the term "transfer" as the movement of an armament from one member nation, political subdivisions thereof, or non-state entities associated with a member nation to any other such entity, including non-member nations and non-state entities not associated with any nation;

3. Defines term "end-user certificate" as an affidavit completed by the buyer of armaments subject to the provisions of this resolution which verifies that said buyer is the final recipient of the product;

4. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting:
  1. those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law,
  2. future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or
  3. future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;

5. Requires all manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of armaments within member nations to register with the relevant government(s) of the nation(s) in which they operate, and the terms of such a registration shall, at minimum, encompass the provisions of this resolution;

6. Mandates that the export of armaments by any manufacturer, exporter, or broker operating within a member nation shall make the sale of their armaments to an intended final recipient conditional on the completion of an end-user certificate by the buyer; member nations are strongly urged to implement systems of end-use monitoring to ensure that the end-user certificate is authentic, when possible;

7. Prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments if:
  1. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used in contravention of extant World Assembly legislation on human rights,
  2. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be diverted from their originally intended recipient, except in instances where the transfer is absolutely necessary in protecting national security, so long as even those transfers do not violate the other provisions of this resolution, or,
  3. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used to initiate, or aid the aggressor in, a war of conquest which, for the purpose of this resolution, will not include reclaiming lost territory;
8. Further prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments to non-member nations with the intent of then transferring them to nations where the aforementioned circumstances apply.


The General Assembly,

Reaffirming its position of international peace and goodwill,

Recognizing the extreme hazard to national populations posed by the unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

Hoping to limit the involvement of member nations and their citizens in violence made possible by the aforementioned unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

1. Defines the term "armament" as military equipment, specifically weapons and ammunition, which possess a practical application in military conflict, including the parts necessary in their construction or production;

2. Defines the term "transfer" as the movement of an armament from one member nation, political subdivisions thereof, or non-state entities associated with a member nation to any other such entity, including non-member nations and non-state entities not associated with any nation;

3. Defines term "end-user certificate" as an affidavit completed by the buyer of armaments subject to the provisions of this resolution which verifies that said buyer is the final recipient of the product;

4. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law, future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;

5. Requires all manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of armaments within member nations to register with the relevant government(s) of the nation(s) in which they operate, and the terms of such a registration shall, at minimum, encompass the provisions of this resolution;

6. Mandates that the export of armaments by any manufacturer, exporter, or broker operating within a member nation shall make the sale of their armaments conditional on the completion of an end-user certificate by the buyer; member nations are strongly urged to implement systems of end-use monitoring to ensure that the end-user certificate is authentic, when possible;

7. Prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments if:
  1. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used in contravention of extant World Assembly legislation on human rights,
  2. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be diverted from their originally intended recipient, or
  3. There is reasonable evidence to suggest they will be used to initiate, or aid the aggressor in, a war of conquest or expropriation;
[/list]
8. Further prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments to non-member nations with the intent of then transferring them to nations where the aforementioned circumstances apply.


I'll be submitting this again in the near future. Comments and suggestions are, as always, most welcome. Potential name changes would also be appreciated.
Last edited by Wrapper on Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:21 am, edited 29 times in total.
Reason: MODEDIT: Defeated.
Natalia Santos, Plenipotentiary and Permanent Scionite Representative to the World Assembly


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Kaboomlandia
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Thu May 14, 2015 4:56 pm

I sincerely hope that if this passes, people won't be lining up to submit illegal repeals.
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Narmadia
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Postby Narmadia » Thu May 14, 2015 4:59 pm

Sciongrad wrote:
Category: Global Disarmament | Strength: Mild | Proposed by: Sciongrad


The General Assembly,

Reaffirming its position of international peace and goodwill,

Recognizing the extreme hazard to national populations posed by the unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

Hoping to limit the involvement of member nations and their citizens in violence made possible by the aforementioned unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

1. Defines the term "armament" as military equipment, specifically weapons and ammunition, which possess a practical application in military conflict, including the parts necessary in their construction or production;

2. Defines the term "transfer" as the movement of an armament from one member nation, political subdivisions thereof, or non-state entities associated with a member nation to any other such entity, including non-member nations and non-state entities not associated with any nation;

3. Defines term "end-user certificate" as an affidavit completed by the buyer of armaments subject to the provisions of this resolution which verifies that said buyer is the final recipient of the product;

4. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law, future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;

5. Requires all manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of armaments within member nations to register with the relevant government(s) of the nation(s) in which they operate, and the terms of such a registration shall, at minimum, encompass the provisions of this resolution;

6. Mandates that the export of armaments by any manufacturer, exporter, or broker operating within a member nation shall make the sale of their armaments conditional on the completion of an end-user certificate by the buyer; member nations are strongly urged to implement systems of end-use monitoring to ensure that the end-user certificate is authentic, when possible;

7. Prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments if:
  1. There is reason to suspect that they will be used in contravention of extant World Assembly legislation on human rights,
  2. There is reason to suspect that they will be diverted from their originally intended recipient, or
  3. There is reason to suspect they will be used to initiate, or aid the aggressor in, a war of conquest or expropriation;
8. Further prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments to non-member nations with the intent of then transferring them to nations where the aforementioned circumstances apply.


I'll be submitting this again in the near future. Comments and suggestions are, as always, most welcome. Potential name changes would also be appreciated.


"We would like to enquire- is this the same exact wording as found in GA#325?"

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Thu May 14, 2015 5:07 pm

Narmadia wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:
Category: Global Disarmament | Strength: Mild | Proposed by: Sciongrad


The General Assembly,

Reaffirming its position of international peace and goodwill,

Recognizing the extreme hazard to national populations posed by the unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

Hoping to limit the involvement of member nations and their citizens in violence made possible by the aforementioned unregulated trade of weapons and armaments,

1. Defines the term "armament" as military equipment, specifically weapons and ammunition, which possess a practical application in military conflict, including the parts necessary in their construction or production;

2. Defines the term "transfer" as the movement of an armament from one member nation, political subdivisions thereof, or non-state entities associated with a member nation to any other such entity, including non-member nations and non-state entities not associated with any nation;

3. Defines term "end-user certificate" as an affidavit completed by the buyer of armaments subject to the provisions of this resolution which verifies that said buyer is the final recipient of the product;

4. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law, future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;

5. Requires all manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of armaments within member nations to register with the relevant government(s) of the nation(s) in which they operate, and the terms of such a registration shall, at minimum, encompass the provisions of this resolution;

6. Mandates that the export of armaments by any manufacturer, exporter, or broker operating within a member nation shall make the sale of their armaments conditional on the completion of an end-user certificate by the buyer; member nations are strongly urged to implement systems of end-use monitoring to ensure that the end-user certificate is authentic, when possible;

7. Prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments if:
  1. There is reason to suspect that they will be used in contravention of extant World Assembly legislation on human rights,
  2. There is reason to suspect that they will be diverted from their originally intended recipient, or
  3. There is reason to suspect they will be used to initiate, or aid the aggressor in, a war of conquest or expropriation;
8. Further prohibits the sale or transfer of armaments to non-member nations with the intent of then transferring them to nations where the aforementioned circumstances apply.


I'll be submitting this again in the near future. Comments and suggestions are, as always, most welcome. Potential name changes would also be appreciated.

"We would like to enquire- is this the same exact wording as found in GA#325?"

Yes. Its also very close to the resolution defeated here, which was noted for similarities to the resolution defeated here.

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The Candy Of Bottles
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Postby The Candy Of Bottles » Thu May 14, 2015 8:02 pm

Tislam trots into the room with a frown.

"My delegation voted against this proposal when it first came to vote, and have voted for its repeal. We remain firmly opposed to this bill, and, upon recent thought, have only strengthened that position."

The draft is swept into the trash with one wing.

"While your heart is in the right place, we do not this type of legislation being practical in any form- Not only would this prevent governments from selling off surplus weapons, or antique weapons being bought and sold, but it could easily be construed as extending to such items as chainsaws, axes, many woodworking tools, and utensils such as carving knives. And who ever heard of a consumer buying those direct from the manufacturer? Middlemen are everywhere, and many of them bring their products across national borders."

The pegasus turns to Ambassador Santos, his muzzle inches from her face. "You lost, this is repealed, get over it."
Last edited by The Candy Of Bottles on Fri May 15, 2015 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Knootoss » Thu May 14, 2015 8:15 pm

"This again? Oh dear, oh dear. Wouldn't it be much nicer to let this one be for a while and focus on something that will make everyone happier? I would just love to work with the delegation from Sciongrad on different proposals!"

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Postby Petrokovia » Thu May 14, 2015 8:48 pm

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"Oh, no. It's the exact same thing... Well that's just silly. I suggest not resubmitting the exact same proposal. If it gets repealed once, people are obviously not going to vote it right back in."
Last edited by Petrokovia on Thu May 14, 2015 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Eternal Kawaii » Thu May 14, 2015 8:59 pm

We are tempted to approve this, just to see how long the GA can keep the ping-pong game going.
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Postby Ainocra » Thu May 14, 2015 9:50 pm

In the interest of the sanity of the voters, I suggest waiting for a time and working to address the concerns raised by the repeal.

We remain opposed to this in that it would cause economic harm to our economy which is anchored around our manufacture and sale of arms across the multiverse.
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Postby The Dark Star Republic » Fri May 15, 2015 1:52 am

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Postby The United Remnants of America » Fri May 15, 2015 1:59 am

The Remnant delegate raises a finger while reading over the intended proposal on a tablet, "The toothiest line here, at least to me, is 7c. Maybe if you tweak that, then yeah, it won't have as much a bite as you want it to, but then it's not the same proposal, and then it's not affecting what ninety percent of all the arms trade is done for."
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri May 15, 2015 4:54 am

"As much as it pains me, absolutely, to suggest this, perhaps changing the term "armaments" to "weapons" would make this limited enough to as to not have nations believe it outlaws carving knives and spark plugs? Then a nation could ship 10,000 helicopters to a genocidal dictator, but not a single rocket pod, making them far less useful. Its an incomplete solution, but...I don't think you'll get anywhere this year with the current proposal now that the well has been poisoned."

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Postby The Candy Of Bottles » Fri May 15, 2015 8:36 am

Tislam sighs.

"Ms. Chinmusic, If you honestly believe this proposal could ever have a chance of passing- especially unchanged- I think you may want to get an appointment with a psychologist. As for you Ambassador Bell, who ever said anything about spark plugs? The only way I could imagine killing someone with those would work would be to force-feed them to someone. And really, anything that can be used to harm or kill someone can be considered a weapon- knives, fireplace pokers, carving forks, golf clubs- even that chair over there!" Here, Tislam gestures with his wing. "And you never said anything about retail or army surplus stores- both of which would be badly hit by this bill, if not put out of business altogether."
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Fri May 15, 2015 8:50 am

"I don't believe the voters will be very happy about voting on the same thing three times in a row."
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
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Postby Bears Armed » Fri May 15, 2015 10:05 am

Kaboomlandia wrote:"I don't believe the voters will be very happy about voting on the same thing three times in a row."

Then again, I wouldn't have believed that after it had passed by such a comfortable margin so many of them would then vote to 'insta-repeal' it...
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Sciongrad
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Postby Sciongrad » Fri May 15, 2015 12:00 pm

The Candy Of Bottles wrote:The pegasus turns to Ambassador Santos his muzzle inches from her face. "You lost, this is repealed, get over it."


Ambassador Santos, apparently unaffected by the foam and spittle of the most esteemed gentleman from the Candy of Bottles, leaned forward and gave the pegasus a kiss on the forehead. "Ai, olhe para o rapazinho bonitinho," she sang. As the good ambassador fawned over the adorable representative from Candy of Bottles, Ricardo, who realized that Natalia had no plans of doing so, began to speak. "Sciongrad will continue to work on this issue. Whether or not you're particularly thrilled is not relevant to us, and your apparently unabashed ignorance of international arms trading will certainly not persuade us to reconsider our stance. If you have constructive suggestions or real arguments against regulating arms trading in the instances outlined by clause seven, then I'd love to hear them. If you're just going to try to make funny faces at old women all day, then kindly remove yourself from the debate."

Knootoss wrote:"This again? Oh dear, oh dear. Wouldn't it be much nicer to let this one be for a while and focus on something that will make everyone happier? I would just love to work with the delegation from Sciongrad on different proposals!"


No longer distracted by the equine menace, ambassador Santos directed her attention to the Knootian delegation. "Firstly, Sciongrad offers its sincerest welcome to you, ms. Reuvelkamp. I do look forward to working with you in the future. Unfortunately, I have no intention of putting this one on the back burner. I'd love to hear your thoughts, however."

Ainocra wrote:In the interest of the sanity of the voters, I suggest waiting for a time and working to address the concerns raised by the repeal.

We remain opposed to this in that it would cause economic harm to our economy which is anchored around our manufacture and sale of arms across the multiverse.


"Ai-Jesus! You're so skinny, my dear. Do you want something to eat? I just prepared a pot of caldo verde this morning. I know you might not like greens, but kale is good for you! No? I can make you something to eat, what do you want? Really, I won't take no for an answer. I'll go get you a bowl of soup, and you can let the ambassadors that actually know what impact minor international arms regulations would have on economies talk it over, does that sound good?"

The Dark Star Republic wrote:"The only version of this proposal we will support is one identical to the previous submission."

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Ricardo, talking in place of Natalia who just ran off to the Scionite office to retrieve a bowl of kale soup, nodded firmly in agreement. "Sciongrad does not recognize any of the arguments presented in the repeal to be accurate, thoughtful, or intellectually honest, so we don't plan on making any substantive changes to the resolution."
Last edited by Sciongrad on Fri May 15, 2015 12:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Natalia Santos, Plenipotentiary and Permanent Scionite Representative to the World Assembly


Ideological Bulwark #271


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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Fri May 15, 2015 12:06 pm

I hate to say this, Ms Santos, but it's possible you'd be well-advised to make one or two concessions in the face of the Assembly's dishonest, disingenuous, and willful misinterpretation of plain words. For example, by adding the word "working" before the word "parts" in Part 1; or by adding an additional statement in the preamble, such as:

OBVIOUSLY not limiting ordinary sales of weapons, nor seriously impacting WA members' economics unless they're already skirting WA human rights law;


I would despise the sight of this clearly necessary resolution being cast down once again, simply because nations' Creative Compliance Bureaux are stunted and pathetic relative to the Snakepit's former days.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Fri May 15, 2015 12:08 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:already skirting WA human rights law;

Does everyone pretend that (7).c does not exist or something? I've got no problem with regulation of arms trading — as long as it regulates ... arms and trading (instead of 'transfer') ... and for those oft-brought up ethnic cleansers.

Sciongrad wrote:There is reason to suspect they will be used to initiate, or aid the aggressor in, a war of conquest or expropriation
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Fri May 15, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sciongrad
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Postby Sciongrad » Fri May 15, 2015 12:12 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:There is reason to suspect they will be used to initiate, or aid the aggressor in, a war of conquest or expropriation


OOC: Wars of aggression and expropriation are not just crimes against peace, but are something the WA should actively try and prevent. Framing a ban on the trade of armaments to nations engaging in such activities as if its some gotcha is not really effective to anyone that has a sensible position on warfare.
Last edited by Sciongrad on Fri May 15, 2015 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sciongrad
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Postby Sciongrad » Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 pm

OOC: Sorry for the double post.

IC:

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:I hate to say this, Ms Santos, but it's possible you'd be well-advised to make one or two concessions in the face of the Assembly's dishonest, disingenuous, and willful misinterpretation of plain words.


"I don't plan on making any substantive changes, but I will certainly clarify the language. While I'm obviously very frustrated with the circumstances, I do have to be pragmatic. I appreciate your suggestions, and will and incorporate them into the next draft."
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Fri May 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Sciongrad wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:


OOC: Wars of aggression and expropriation are not just crimes against peace, but are something the WA should actively try and prevent. Saying that this bans the trade of armaments to nations engaging in such activities as if its some gotcha is not really effective to anyone that has a sensible position on warfare.

OOC: And there are times when countries should pay reparations to other countries for destroying their people, industries, and security. RAT2 will simply prevent anyone from trading arms to other nations when those other nations might want some war reparations (for, idk, bombing their cities)

I would support this resolution if the section about 'wars of ... expropriation' were removed, (7).b changed to something which limits arms trading if it could be diverted to those ethnic cleansers, and the scope limited to arms and trading, not armaments and transfers (per the name).
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Fri May 15, 2015 12:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Sciongrad
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Postby Sciongrad » Fri May 15, 2015 12:23 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:
OOC: Wars of aggression and expropriation are not just crimes against peace, but are something the WA should actively try and prevent. Saying that this bans the trade of armaments to nations engaging in such activities as if its some gotcha is not really effective to anyone that has a sensible position on warfare.

OOC: And there are times when countries should pay reparations to other countries for destroying their people, industries, and security. RAT2 will simply prevent anyone from trading arms to other nations when those other nations might want some war reparations (for, idk, bombing their cities)


OOC: Absolutely not. Wars of aggression, regardless of the causes, are inherently unjust. I will not, under any circumstance, pass an arms trading resolution that doesn't prevent trading armaments to the aggressive party in a war of conquest or expropriation.

I would support this resolution if the section about 'wars of conquest or expropriation' were removed, (7).b changed to something which limits arms trading if it could be diverted to those ethnic cleansers, and the scope limited to arms and trading (per the name).


OOC: What possible reason is there to use trading instead of transferring. That would simply permit sympathetic governments to give armaments to terrorists and ethnic cleansers, rather than selling them.
Last edited by Sciongrad on Fri May 15, 2015 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Fri May 15, 2015 12:27 pm

Sciongrad wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:OOC: And there are times when countries should pay reparations to other countries for destroying their people, industries, and security. RAT2 will simply prevent anyone from trading arms to other nations when those other nations might want some war reparations (for, idk, bombing their cities)

OOC: Absolutely not. Wars of aggression, regardless of the causes, are inherently unjust. I will not, under any circumstance, pass an arms trading resolution that doesn't prevent trading armaments to the aggressive party in a war of conquest or expropriation.

How about just wars of conquest?

Sciongrad wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:I would support this resolution if the section about 'wars of conquest or expropriation' were removed, (7).b changed to something which limits arms trading if it could be diverted to those ethnic cleansers, and the scope limited to arms and trading (per the name).

OOC: What possible reason is there to use trading instead of transferring. That would simply permit sympathetic governments to give armaments to terrorists and ethnic cleansers, rather than selling them.

Change the name then. Right now, it has nothing to do with arms or trading.

Secondarily, assuming that the name of this resolution is now Responsible Armaments Transferring (or Transfers) — I would say that a better definition of armaments is required perhaps, Ambassador, something like 'Defines the term "armament" as military equipment which possess a practical application in armed conflict'.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Fri May 15, 2015 12:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Ainocra
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Postby Ainocra » Fri May 15, 2015 5:25 pm

The Marshal smiles slightly. "No thank you, I just ate." Consulting his datapad for a second he continues. "By our calculations your so called minor impact would put about 1.4 million Ainocrans out of work"
Laying the pad aside he presses on. "Weapons of war are designed to be used for just that purpose, War." "Asking every nation to investigate the motivations of their fellows is an exercise in futility."
"What you might consider an unjust war of aggression might be a necessary preemptive strike to another nation." Shaking his head he says. "We expect that weapons made for war will eventually find themselves used for war." "Rather than treating the symptoms perhaps you should focus on the cause thereby making those weapons unneeded."

"We remain opposed."
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The Candy Of Bottles
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Postby The Candy Of Bottles » Fri May 15, 2015 6:36 pm

OOC: First off, I would just like to point out that nobody ever took the draft out of the trash, so it's still in there. Or at least it was.

Sciongrad wrote:
The Candy Of Bottles wrote:The pegasus turns to Ambassador Santos, his muzzle inches from her face. "You lost, this is repealed, get over it."


Ambassador Santos, apparently unaffected by the foam and spittle of the most esteemed gentleman from the Candy of Bottles, leaned forward and gave the pegasus a kiss on the forehead. "Ai, olhe para o rapazinho bonitinho," she sang. As the good ambassador fawned over the adorable representative from Candy of Bottles, Ricardo, who realized that Natalia had no plans of doing so, began to speak. "Sciongrad will continue to work on this issue. Whether or not you're particularly thrilled is not relevant to us, and your apparently unabashed ignorance of international arms trading will certainly not persuade us to reconsider our stance. If you have constructive suggestions or real arguments against regulating arms trading in the instances outlined by clause seven, then I'd love to hear them. If you're just going to try to make funny faces at old women all day, then kindly remove yourself from the debate."


After a moment with an electronic translator, Ambassador Timnärstëlmith glanced up, looking slightly offended. "Ok, first off, I'm seventeen years old, and been at work for the past eleven, much of that mining. I am neither a boy nor a colt, I am a stallion. Second, the big issue with this bill is a result of clause three, not clause seven."

Tislam pulls the draft out of the trashcan with one wing, and picks up a highlighter with the other, uncapping it with his mouth before swiping it across the paper.

3. Defines term "end-user certificate" as an affidavit completed by the buyer of armaments subject to the provisions of this resolution which verifies that said buyer is the final recipient of the product;


"That, right there, is the biggest issue. Not only does this prevent governments from selling unused weapons and ammo to their citizens, but it it also creates a problem for retail too. Say we have Manufacturer A in Nation B, which wants to sell to Retailer C in Nation D. Retailer C needs to sell the product to Consumer E to make money... But it can't because it had to sign paperwork saying it was the final recipient. Big problem here. And, as I've said, this could easily be taken too far. Soldiers need silverware, sharp knives, and other things civilians do too."

Tislam pauses, puts the highlighter back down (with the cap on), and thinks for a moment. "If you'll excuse me for a few minutes, I have a diagram to draw up."
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