Does Reverse Racism exist?

[Fanosolia]

No, only racism exists and it is bad no matter what group is being targeted or how it is being done. It is possible to be racist against white people, that isn't reverse racism it is racism. In the same way that women rights, gay rights, transsexual rights, etc. Don't exist either, there are rights, that all people have no matter what.

So those rights are already embedded in the individual right section?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

No, only racism exists and it is bad no matter what group is being targeted or how it is being done. It is possible to be racist against white people, that isn't reverse racism it is racism. In the same way that women rights, gay rights, transsexual rights, etc. Don't exist either, there are rights, that all people have no matter what.

I actually agree with your second point somewhat, though I think that the whole point arises out of a misunderstanding of what it means when someone says 'gay rights' for instance.

Most people who talk about minority rights in that context are stating that there already exists a distinction in society and the law between, for instance, the rights afforded to straight people and the rights afforded to gay people. It's usually the intention of these people that everyone have the same rights and they feel that the current situation does not reflect that.

[Ripoll]

No, only racism exists and it is bad no matter what group is being targeted or how it is being done. It is possible to be racist against white people, that isn't reverse racism it is racism. In the same way that women rights, gay rights, transsexual rights, etc. Don't exist either, there are rights, that all people have no matter what.

So those rights are already embedded in the individual right section?

Yes

[Ripoll]

No, only racism exists and it is bad no matter what group is being targeted or how it is being done. It is possible to be racist against white people, that isn't reverse racism it is racism. In the same way that women rights, gay rights, transsexual rights, etc. Don't exist either, there are rights, that all people have no matter what.

I actually agree with your second point somewhat, though I think that the whole point arises out of a misunderstanding of what it means when someone says 'gay rights' for instance.

Most people who talk about minority rights in that context are stating that there already exists a distinction in society and the law between, for instance, the rights afforded to straight people and the rights afforded to gay people. It's usually the intention of these people that everyone have the same rights and they feel that the current situation does not reflect that.

I understand their point, but I don't think the term reflects the reality of the definition. It just seeks to polarize the issue, if they presented their case in terms of this much broader rotation of individual rights they would have much greater success.

[Scomagia]

No. It's just important to distinguish between local power and real, institutionalized power. The former HAS to come first, of course, but they aren't the same thing.

So in that case, do you feel we're making any progress in dealing with that or has things in terms of institutionalized racism haven't changed much here in the west?

In the U.S., which is the only nation I'm really qualified to speak of, we haven't made much progress since the days of King. We really made some huge progress in the sixties but then it just sort of stopped. At the very least, institutionalized racism is generally illegal, which helps a bit. We really need to fix problems like Redlining, though, since they keep black people in ghettos.

[Scomagia]

No. It's just important to distinguish between local power and real, institutionalized power. The former HAS to come first, of course, but they aren't the same thing.

So local power is fake?

It's insignificant when looking at the country as a whole. Local power is generally pretty weak, regardless of who has it. The real power in our society rests in state and federal legislatures, as well as in the corporate world. Black people are hugely underrepresented in all of those areas.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

In the U.S., which is the only nation I'm really qualified to speak of, we haven't made much progress since the days of King. We really made some huge progress in the sixties but then it just sort of stopped. At the very least, institutionalized racism is generally illegal, which helps a bit. We really need to fix problems like Redlining, though, since they keep black people in ghettos.

I agree with you, I just think that defining racism as something that only people in power can do is actively hindering efforts to fix things, by inspiring those people to feel that there is nothing to benefit them in the new way of thinking.

It's insignificant when looking at the country as a whole. Local power is generally pretty weak, regardless of who has it. The real power in our society rests in state and federal legislatures, as well as in the corporate world. Black people are hugely underrepresented in all of those areas.

I get that, but I still feel that completely discounting minority power over an area is infantilizing.

[Ripoll]

So local power is fake?

It's insignificant when looking at the country as a whole. Local power is generally pretty weak, regardless of who has it. The real power in our society rests in state and federal legislatures, as well as in the corporate world. Black people are hugely underrepresented in all of those areas.

local powers seems pretty influential in local powers, and I think it is horribly idiotic to judge the success of a specific race by the amount of people of that race to preside in high office.

We should judge it by economic opportunity alone.

[Transoxthraxia]

The hell is "reverse" racism? Racism is racism, whether it's targeted at Caucasians, Asians, or any other single ethnicity on this planet.

[Scomagia]

In the U.S., which is the only nation I'm really qualified to speak of, we haven't made much progress since the days of King. We really made some huge progress in the sixties but then it just sort of stopped. At the very least, institutionalized racism is generally illegal, which helps a bit. We really need to fix problems like Redlining, though, since they keep black people in ghettos.

I agree with you, I just think that defining racism as something that only people in power can do is actively hindering efforts to fix things, by inspiring those people to feel that there is nothing to benefit them in the new way of thinking.

It's insignificant when looking at the country as a whole. Local power is generally pretty weak, regardless of who has it. The real power in our society rests in state and federal legislatures, as well as in the corporate world. Black people are hugely underrepresented in all of those areas.

I get that, but I still feel that completely discounting minority power over an area is infantilizing.

For the record, you're a bit confused. I completely agree that anyone can be racist. I never said different. Just clarifying.

I don't know, you may have a point. Still, local power is somewhat perfunctory, no?

[Fanosolia]

So in that case, do you feel we're making any progress in dealing with that or has things in terms of institutionalized racism haven't changed much here in the west?

In the U.S., which is the only nation I'm really qualified to speak of, we haven't made much progress since the days of King. We really made some huge progress in the sixties but then it just sort of stopped. At the very least, institutionalized racism is generally illegal, which helps a bit. We really need to fix problems like Redlining, though, since they keep black people in ghettos.

*looks at redlining* Oh god that's still a thing!?

Yeah, the only thing I know about my country for a fact is discrimination towards indigenous people here (which sort of make me ill to think that's the case). My question, as someone who leans on wanting to remove/reduce racism but never knows how, is how do we deal with things like that at a legal level? I mean aside from banning redlining for one because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, even for a capitalist society.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

I understand their point, but I don't think the term reflects the reality of the definition. It just seeks to polarize the issue, if they presented their case in terms of this much broader rotation of individual rights they would have much greater success.

Maybe we just need a version of 'gay access to individual rights' that rolls off the tongue better than that.

If you can think of one that's pithy enough I'll be sure to pass it along.

[Scomagia]

In the U.S., which is the only nation I'm really qualified to speak of, we haven't made much progress since the days of King. We really made some huge progress in the sixties but then it just sort of stopped. At the very least, institutionalized racism is generally illegal, which helps a bit. We really need to fix problems like Redlining, though, since they keep black people in ghettos.

*looks at redlining* Oh god that's still a thing!?

Yeah, the only thing I know about my country for a fact is discrimination towards indigenous people here (which sort of make me ill to think that's the case). My question, as someone who leans on wanting to remove/reduce racism but never knows how, is how do we deal with things like that at a legal level? I mean aside from banning redlining for one because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, even for a capitalist society.

Yes, it's still a thing.

Well, redlining is technically illegal already. The issue, of course, is that making it illegal doesn't make it go away, especially since it's basically impossible to prove you've been red-lined. I suppose increasing oversight by the Federal government or independent groups might help, though I honestly don't know.

[Ripoll]

I understand their point, but I don't think the term reflects the reality of the definition. It just seeks to polarize the issue, if they presented their case in terms of this much broader rotation of individual rights they would have much greater success.

Maybe we just need a version of 'gay access to individual rights' that rolls off the tongue better than that.

If you can think of one that's pithy enough I'll be sure to pass it along.

well Martin Luther did take well to calling it "civil rights" rather than black rights.

[Ripoll]

*looks at redlining* Oh god that's still a thing!?

Yeah, the only thing I know about my country for a fact is discrimination towards indigenous people here (which sort of make me ill to think that's the case). My question, as someone who leans on wanting to remove/reduce racism but never knows how, is how do we deal with things like that at a legal level? I mean aside from banning redlining for one because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, even for a capitalist society.

Yes, it's still a thing.

Well, redlining is technically illegal already. The issue, of course, is that making it illegal doesn't make it go away, especially since it's basically impossible to prove you've been red-lined. I suppose increasing oversight by the Federal government or independent groups might help, though I honestly don't know.

these types of things are not done as often and forcing more Government bureaucracy to take care of this will do nothing but cause productivity problems and constrain innovation by over arching unintended effects. Just spread culture and have positive Government reinforcement for multiculturalism.

[Romalae]

Maybe we just need a version of 'gay access to individual rights' that rolls off the tongue better than that.

If you can think of one that's pithy enough I'll be sure to pass it along.

well Martin Luther did take well to calling it "civil rights" rather than black rights.

Martin Luther knew about 20th century American Civil Rights?! That guy really was way ahead of his time.

[Fanosolia]

*looks at redlining* Oh god that's still a thing!?

Yeah, the only thing I know about my country for a fact is discrimination towards indigenous people here (which sort of make me ill to think that's the case). My question, as someone who leans on wanting to remove/reduce racism but never knows how, is how do we deal with things like that at a legal level? I mean aside from banning redlining for one because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, even for a capitalist society.

Yes, it's still a thing.

Well, redlining is technically illegal already. The issue, of course, is that making it illegal doesn't make it go away, especially since it's basically impossible to prove you've been red-lined. I suppose increasing oversight by the Federal government or independent groups might help, though I honestly don't know.

yeah oversight is always a good thing (something that a certain cowardice prime minster needs to learn). Speaking of independent groups, are those these outreach centers I keep hearing about on this site or what are they?

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

racism

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Reverse racism does not exist. There is only racism. To be a reverse racist, you would be the opposite of a racist, i.e. believing that all races are equal and none are inferior/superior. It's really that simple, I don't see how anyone couldn't understand that.

[Scomagia]

Yes, it's still a thing.

Well, redlining is technically illegal already. The issue, of course, is that making it illegal doesn't make it go away, especially since it's basically impossible to prove you've been red-lined. I suppose increasing oversight by the Federal government or independent groups might help, though I honestly don't know.

yeah oversight is always a good thing (something that a certain cowardice prime minster needs to learn). Speaking of independent groups, are those these outreach centers I keep hearing about on this site or what are they?

By independent groups, I meant things like the BBB. Honestly, though, I don't know how well that would really work.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

For the record, you're a bit confused. I completely agree that anyone can be racist. I never said different. Just clarifying.

Glancing back through the post history I see that, and I apologize for mischaracterizing you.

I actually recall feeling somewhat surprised when I thought you did hold that opinion. I was like 'but the little goat guy is generally so reasonable'.

I think that it's just an argument I'm eager to have, because it's an attitude that is holding the minority/majority gap further open.

[Ripoll]

well Martin Luther did take well to calling it "civil rights" rather than black rights.

Martin Luther knew about 20th century American Civil Rights?! That guy really was way ahead of his time.

Considering the fact that it is indeed the term they used back then, no he really wasn't a man ahead of his time. He was an influential man in his time.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Considering the fact that it is indeed the term they used back then, no he really wasn't a man ahead of his time. He was an influential man in his time.

He's making a joke at your expense because Martin Luther is not the same person as Martin Luther King jr.

[The Lone Alliance]

Racism is racism, it's sad it's gotten to the point that people have to use the term reverse racism because people can't realize that racism works both ways.

[Fanosolia]

yeah oversight is always a good thing (something that a certain cowardice prime minster needs to learn). Speaking of independent groups, are those these outreach centers I keep hearing about on this site or what are they?

By independent groups, I meant things like the BBB. Honestly, though, I don't know how well that would really work.

Okay just wanted to see what you mean. I know how you feel though, I when it at least come to race, I can never figure out how to end it, or at least get closer to that goal of making just a physical trait more or less than a socio-economic subculture.

[Scomagia]

For the record, you're a bit confused. I completely agree that anyone can be racist. I never said different. Just clarifying.

Glancing back through the post history I see that, and I apologize for mischaracterizing you.

I actually recall feeling somewhat surprised when I thought you did hold that opinion. I was like 'but the little goat guy is generally so reasonable'.

I think that it's just an argument I'm eager to have, because it's an attitude that is holding the minority/majority gap further open.

It's all good. Maybe you were confused because I said that institutional discrimination by minorities is impossible.

I try to be reasonable, with varying degrees of success.

Agreed.