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The Afterlife

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you believe in an afterlife?

Yes
74
42%
No
72
41%
I'm not sure
30
17%
 
Total votes : 176

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Sanctissima
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The Afterlife

Postby Sanctissima » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:24 pm

I've been wanting to bring up this topic for a while now, so, here goes. Please bare with me.

Of all the conundrums, trials and tribulations that humanity has ever faced, I think that there is one ultimate question which has haunted us since the dawn of time. Is there an afterlife? When our physical body fails us and dies, does a part of us live on, or is it simply lights out?

Most religions share at least one thing in common: the belief that, once we die, we do go somewhere. Although they may not agree on what the afterlife is, they do agree that there is, at the very least, something. Even many irreligious people believe that there is some form of life after death. For the purposes of this topic, I do not ask what the afterlife may hold, whether it is good or bad, or even who is or is not permitted to exist there. I simply ask whether or not it exists.

There are two thoughts on this matter. The first is that, as most religions hold as their core belief, a part of an individual is eternal, and goes on to the afterlife. The latter is that of personal oblivion: the individual has no soul, and we are but a conglomeration of cells and matter that inevitably dies, permanently.

So, what are your opinions NSG? Do you think that, once we die, there is an afterlife to look forward to? Or, rather, do you think that it is but a vain hope shared by most humans for fear of oblivion?

My opinion is that there is an afterlife. I don't know what it is or whether it's good or bad, but I think there's enough evidence to conclude that it exists. Some of the facts are a bit far-fetched, while others are more realistic. Basically, most evidence for an afterlife lies in NDEs (Near-Death Experiences), which, since they involve as their source of information a person whose body is slowly failing them, tend to be discredited as the hallucinations of dying people. So, needless to say, it's a field of science that doesn't get much academic attention. That said, I think it's an important one which is all too often overlooked.

People who experience NDEs are, as the name implies, experiencing a near death situation. The circumstances vary, but the general scenario is that they're nearly brain-dead and are about to die. So, basically, it's a person who almost dies, experiences something surreal while they're essentially brain dead, and comes back to life (usually after doctors have saved them). These people usually claim they experienced the afterlife, and tend to go through the rest of their lives with a new sense of happiness. What's intriguing about NDEs is not so much what people say, but how universally similar it is to the stories of other people who experience NDEs. There's always a white light and an "outer-body" feeling which most people describe as the soul temporarily leaving the body. Yes, this could be discredited as a final bought of dopamine-induced semi-consciousness as the many chemicals comprising the brain begin to coagulate, but I think it's something more. You could ask a Canadian and an Indian about the NDE they experienced, and both would mention the white light and outer-body experience. What's even more intriguing is that in some cases, people describe watching their own surgery take place, but from a bird's-eye view. After their operations, some have even described the entire layout of the operation room, right down to the medical equipment that was used, things they could not possibly have known during their comatose state. Things they could not possibly have known, unless, of course, they had a soul, and the afterlife truly does exist.

I could add more evidence aside from NDEs to explain why I believe in an afterlife, but I'm curious about your opinions. So, what do you think?

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Cetacea
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Postby Cetacea » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:47 pm

Consciousness is Information which is energy and thus eternal

if conciousness is eternal then upon death of the body that information necessarily persists, it may become unstable and suffer entropy but it does not suddenly cease to exist

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:48 pm

Nope, I don't think there's an afterlife. We live on in the minds of the people that love us but that's it. As soon as they die, we cease to exist completely, just as our bodies did after death.
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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:50 pm

Cetacea wrote:Consciousness is Information which is energy and thus eternal

if conciousness is eternal then upon death of the body that information necessarily persists, it may become unstable and suffer entropy but it does not suddenly cease to exist


Interesting. So you believe that one's consciousness persists after death, but it would be too unstable without the body to remain fully intact?

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The Equal Peoples State of Steelia
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Postby The Equal Peoples State of Steelia » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:53 pm

If you lived a life of helping people and being selfless then you will be allowed another life where people are selfless towards you. I don't belive in a god or a spirit I just belive that at some point if you have tried throughout your life to care for other people then it has to be recognised by something. Those who acted in ways that deep down they knew were wrong will never get another life. They instead will die feeling the discomfort of ever lie they told, every person the stepped on and every single immoral act they did. Their final thoughts will be of regret and sorrow.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:55 pm

Cetacea wrote:Consciousness is Information which is energy and thus eternal

if conciousness is eternal then upon death of the body that information necessarily persists, it may become unstable and suffer entropy but it does not suddenly cease to exist

Which it isn't. Consciousness basically boils down to certain chemical and electrical reactions, which stop when we die. Game over, enter initials.
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Amethystlands
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Postby Amethystlands » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:57 pm

I don't think there is, but if there was it would be really nice.
Last edited by Amethystlands on Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:58 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Cetacea wrote:Consciousness is Information which is energy and thus eternal

if conciousness is eternal then upon death of the body that information necessarily persists, it may become unstable and suffer entropy but it does not suddenly cease to exist

Which it isn't. Consciousness basically boils down to certain chemical and electrical reactions, which stop when we die. Game over, enter initials.

^This, which is why I hope some kind of immortality for the brain can be achieved before I kick the bucket. Before loved ones do as well, as I quite like them.
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Hladgos
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Postby Hladgos » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:59 pm

I don't believe in an afterlife because I haven't found enough evidence to validate it. Besides, it gives me a reason to do everything I want to do in this life. You have a single chance, don't waste it.
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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:01 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Cetacea wrote:Consciousness is Information which is energy and thus eternal

if conciousness is eternal then upon death of the body that information necessarily persists, it may become unstable and suffer entropy but it does not suddenly cease to exist

Which it isn't. Consciousness basically boils down to certain chemical and electrical reactions, which stop when we die. Game over, enter initials.


Perhaps, but then how does one explain NDEs? A lot of these experiences happen when the brain is well below functioning levels where it can simulate consciousness.

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Snowfall the Unicorn
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Postby Snowfall the Unicorn » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:01 pm

i refuse to believe there is no afterlife. i've had enough experience to believe we go somewhere when we die, its not just a void

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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:03 pm

I dunno. And I don't intend to know either.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:03 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:Which it isn't. Consciousness basically boils down to certain chemical and electrical reactions, which stop when we die. Game over, enter initials.


Perhaps, but then how does one explain NDEs? A lot of these experiences happen when the brain is well below functioning levels where it can simulate consciousness.

We have no evidence of their existence.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

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An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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Arcanda
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Postby Arcanda » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:03 pm

Yes, I think there is.OP summed up pretty good the rational arguments, which are NDEs.My belief is that because of God there is an afterlife.Nearly all religions feature it, however different they can be on other points.It's like a common ground everyone agrees on.When prophets came and praised God, that's probably the most surprising things humans heard, and thus it stayed everywhere.

But I claim the above only as a personal, spiritual explanation.In no way a scientific one that could be proven with nowadays' methods of course.

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:04 pm

Hladgos wrote:I don't believe in an afterlife because I haven't found enough evidence to validate it. Besides, it gives me a reason to do everything I want to do in this life. You have a single chance, don't waste it.

I prefer "you have a single chance, don't fuck it up". A very good reason to show restraint.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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Sosi
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Postby Sosi » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:05 pm

I hope not; my wicked deeds are supposed to die with me.
Last edited by Sosi on Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trevor Phillip Enterprises
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Postby Trevor Phillip Enterprises » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:06 pm

There is an afterlife, one with all the cheese you desire...

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:07 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Perhaps, but then how does one explain NDEs? A lot of these experiences happen when the brain is well below functioning levels where it can simulate consciousness.

We have no evidence of their existence.


Actually, we do. Even many scientists who argue against the afterlife have agreed that NDEs are real things. They just refute them as natural chemical processes of the brain, rather than spiritual occurrences.

So, my question: how are nearly brain dead people experiencing NDEs, and in some cases, remembering them in such great detail? My only logical conclusion is that humans have souls and there is an afterlife.

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Aelex
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Postby Aelex » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:07 pm

Well, if you was good, party time in the Heaven, if you was mostly good, you wait some time before being able to enter, if you was bad you wait for quite a time and then you can enter too.
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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:07 pm

It would be nice if I was awarded a million dollars on my thirtieth birthday. I would be very happy if that happened.

It would be nice if, after I die, my mind was whisked away to a magical paradise. I would be very happy if that happened.

I currently have no good reason to believe that either will happen, so I don't really feature either scenario in my plans for the future.

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EvilDarkMagicians
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Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:08 pm

Realistically, no. I haven't seen any solid evidence for it. Its a nice thought though.

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:09 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:We have no evidence of their existence.


Actually, we do. Even many scientists who argue against the afterlife have agreed that NDEs are real things. They just refute them as natural chemical processes of the brain, rather than spiritual occurrences.

So, my question: how are nearly brain dead people experiencing NDEs, and in some cases, remembering them in such great detail? My only logical conclusion is that humans have souls and there is an afterlife.

If the brain is not dead, then it is still doing things, as for remembering them in detail, that could very easily be filling in gaps. Or, they are making shit up, which I find to be the more plausible explanation.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:10 pm

Sanctissima wrote:Yes, this could be discredited as a final bought of dopamine-induced semi-consciousness as the many chemicals comprising the brain begin to coagulate, but I think it's something more. You could ask a Canadian and an Indian about the NDE they experienced, and both would mention the white light and outer-body experience.

If you asked a Canadian and an Indian that have both had the flu what they experienced they would both mention a similar account. There's no argument here.

What's even more intriguing is that in some cases, people describe watching their own surgery take place, but from a bird's-eye view. After their operations, some have even described the entire layout of the operation room, right down to the medical equipment that was used, things they could not possibly have known during their comatose state. Things they could not possibly have known, unless, of course, they had a soul, and the afterlife truly does exist.

Even if, theoretically, an out-of-body experience exists and is scientifically validated, it wouldn't prove the existence of an afterlife. There are claims of OBE's during one's lifetime, thus there is no direct correlated between an OBE and an afterlife. For all we know this "soul" leaves the body and withers away like the warmth left by a flame that has just died.
Last edited by Esternial on Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:10 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:Which it isn't. Consciousness basically boils down to certain chemical and electrical reactions, which stop when we die. Game over, enter initials.


Perhaps, but then how does one explain NDEs? A lot of these experiences happen when the brain is well below functioning levels where it can simulate consciousness.

The brain can, depending on the circumstances, keep going for more than half an hour without oxygen and still be capable of recovery.
Last edited by Wisconsin9 on Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EvilDarkMagicians
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Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:11 pm

Cetacea wrote:Consciousness is Information which is energy and thus eternal

if conciousness is eternal then upon death of the body that information necessarily persists, it may become unstable and suffer entropy but it does not suddenly cease to exist


Energy is eternal but that doesn't mean consciousness necessarily is.
Last edited by EvilDarkMagicians on Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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