Communism and Socialism megathread

[Rostogovia]

A thread dedicated to the discussion and furtherment of radical leftism!

Welcome comrades, to NS's first ever thread in which Marxists and socialists alike can espouse their views with other like-minded individuals. As an open communist myself, I couldn't help but notice NS's unfortunate lack of dedicated threads pertaining to communism. Well, here's the solution.

[MERIZoC]

Ehhhh. It gets discussed enough in the regular threads.

[Constantinopolis]

Thank you for creating this thread! Although I'm pretty sure others like it existed in the past.

[Rostogovia]

Thank you for creating this thread! Although I'm pretty sure others like it existed in the past.

I know, but prior to this there wasn't an individual thread devoted entirely to communism/socialism in general.

[Distruzio]

Not a fan, per se, but there are variations thereof that are less offensive to me than the general consensus such as guild socialism and syndicalism.

[Confederate Ramenia]

NO FUCK. COMMUNISM IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO SOCIALISM.

Socialist non-communist here, please make this just a socialist megathread. I don't care if communists come here, I just don't want people to confuse communist with socialist and I don't want this being a communist-only thread.

[Rostogovia]

NO FUCK. COMMUNISM IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO SOCIALISM.

Socialist non-communist here, please make this just a socialist megathread. I don't care if communists come here, I just don't want people to confuse communist with socialist and I don't want this being a communist-only thread.

It says in the title that the thread concerns both ideologies.

[Constantinopolis]

NO FUCK. COMMUNISM IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO SOCIALISM.

Protestantism is not equivalent to Orthodox Christianity either, but they're both included in the topic of the Christian megathread.

[United Marxist Nations]

Should make a poll of the different sects like in the religion megathreads. I suggest having at least these:

-Classical Marxism
-Marxism-Leninism
-Anarcho-communism
-Democratic Socialism
-Bolshevik-Leninism (Trotskyism)

[Rostogovia]

"The goal of socialism is communism", so said Vladimir Lenin. Socialism is a great start, however it's ultimate goal is the eventual establishment of communism.

[Rostogovia]

Should make a poll of the different sects like in the religion megathreads. I suggest having at least these:

-Classical Marxism
-Marxism-Leninism
-Anarcho-communism
-Democratic Socialism
-Bolshevik-Leninism (Trotskyism)

Didn't think of that, will do.

[Zunkwentania]

Should make a poll of the different sects like in the religion megathreads. I suggest having at least these:

-Classical Marxism
-Marxism-Leninism
-Anarcho-communism
-Democratic Socialism
-Bolshevik-Leninism (Trotskyism)

Didn't think of that, will do.

Add market socialism and liberal socialism as well, and maybe mutualism and anarcho syndicalism.

[Purpelia]

"The goal of socialism is communism", so said Vladimir Lenin. Socialism is a great start, however it's ultimate goal is the eventual establishment of communism.

That's really the one thing that people don't get about us. What people consider to be Marxism or "true communism" is the end state that all communists strive toward. The various divisions and subsects we see are just different ways of getting there. Where as socialists are a whole different ideology altogether. They are basically capitalists but with a more humane approach. The two are often lumped together but could not be further apart.

[Rostogovia]

"The goal of socialism is communism", so said Vladimir Lenin. Socialism is a great start, however it's ultimate goal is the eventual establishment of communism.

That's really the one thing that people don't get about us. What people consider to be Marxism or "true communism" is the end state that all communists strive toward. The various divisions and subsects we see are just different ways of getting there. Where as socialists are a whole different ideology altogether. They are basically capitalists but with a more humane approach. The two are often lumped together but could not be further apart.

I'm aware, I wasn't talking about intent per say. I believe that socialism is a great alternative to communism in situations in which communism cannot be implemented.

[United Marxist Nations]

1 vote for a lot of the different poll options... let the sectarianism commence!

[Zunkwentania]

"The goal of socialism is communism", so said Vladimir Lenin. Socialism is a great start, however it's ultimate goal is the eventual establishment of communism.

That's really the one thing that people don't get about us. What people consider to be Marxism or "true communism" is the end state that all communists strive toward. The various divisions and subsects we see are just different ways of getting there. Where as socialists are a whole different ideology altogether. They are basically capitalists but with a more humane approach. The two are often lumped together but could not be further apart.

You're thinking of Social Democrats. Socialists advocate having the means of production be owned by the people.

[Purpelia]

I'm aware.

I figured you did based on your post. But I thought it might be wise to elaborate a bit since so many people don't and it's a good thing to put forward.

I believe that socialism is a great alternative to communism in situations in which communism cannot be implemented.

Yes and no. It's a good system to have if you have given up on trying to achieve communism and just want to make the best out of what you have. But that's all it is.

You're thinking of Social Democrats. Socialists advocate having the means of production be owned by the people.

No, I thought what I wrote. The key difference between socialists and communists is that socialists want to have a form of capitalism where you still have a modern looking society with classes and stuff but with various forms of public ownership etc. meant to empower the people and basically create a "peoples capitalism". They do not strive toward a gorvernmentless classless statless society which is at the core of true Marxism.

[Stadacona]

Let the sectarian feuds begin!

[Threlizdun]

The poll could probably be better divided along lines of Marxism, Leninism, libertarian socialism, religious socialism, and other such broad categories rather than naming specific forms of Leninism, differing Marxist interpretations, and other such specific ideologies.

[MERIZoC]

The poll could probably be better divided along lines of Marxism, Leninism, libertarian socialism, religious socialism, and other such broad categories rather than naming specific forms of Leninism, differing Marxist interpretations, and other such specific ideologies.

Agreed. Probably not a need for the "not a communist" option any more than there's a need for a "not Christian" option in the CDT.

[Geilinor]

I'm aware.

I figured you did based on your post. But I thought it might be wise to elaborate a bit since so many people don't and it's a good thing to put forward.

I believe that socialism is a great alternative to communism in situations in which communism cannot be implemented.

Yes and no. It's a good system to have if you have given up on trying to achieve communism and just want to make the best out of what you have. But that's all it is.

You're thinking of Social Democrats. Socialists advocate having the means of production be owned by the people.

No, I thought what I wrote. The key difference between socialists and communists is that socialists want to have a form of capitalism where you still have a modern looking society with classes and stuff but with various forms of public ownership etc. meant to empower the people and basically create a "peoples capitalism". They do not strive toward a gorvernmentless classless statless society which is at the core of true Marxism.

Socialism can't be capitalist. They're different systems entirely.

[Purpelia]

The poll could probably be better divided along lines of Marxism, Leninism, libertarian socialism, religious socialism, and other such broad categories rather than naming specific forms of Leninism, differing Marxist interpretations, and other such specific ideologies.

Honestly the pool only needs two options. Socialist (does not strive toward a stateless Marxist society) and Communist (does).

[Romalae]

The thread's title is really misleading and unfortunate. It seems like a lot of people out there have this belief that socialism and communism are essentially the same philosophy, which they are not. Even though you explain later in the thread that you're aware that they're two separate ideologies, the title and OP nonetheless create a false equivalence that might further reinforce the mistaken notion of interchangeability.

[Purpelia]

Socialism can't be capitalist. They're different systems entirely.

Different but not entirely. They are both variations on the same basic underlying system. The difference is just in the distribution of wealth. In socialism wealth is held by the people where as in capitalism it is held by the privileged few. But ultimately you still have a society where distinct social classes exist and where wealth is a factor.

[Rostogovia]

The thread's title is really misleading and unfortunate. It seems like a lot of people out there have this belief that socialism and communism are essentially the same philosophy, which they are not. Even though you explain later in the thread that you're aware that they're two separate ideologies, the title and OP nonetheless create a false equivalence that might further reinforce the mistaken notion of interchangeability.

I changed the introductory post to include Socialist heraldry, edited the introductory greeting to be ideology unspecific, and changed the title. I think that should be sufficient.