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Can humans "choose" religion?

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Sahrani South
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Can humans "choose" religion?

Postby Sahrani South » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:41 am

I was thinking that the modern liberal democratic system has to give people certain freedoms, including freedom from discrimination. One should not be discriminated because of colour, gender, sexual orientation age etc. These have one thing in common: Nobody chooses this, like, nobody says "I'm gonna become black".

I think this is perfectly fine, but I am really not sure if religion is something a human being can choose or has to stick with, as I would think many people are in a way born with their religion as in they are raised with it and have to stick with it, they can't choose.

So what do you think, is religion something like gender which can't be chosen, or more like a affinity that can be chosen?
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The Sotoan Union
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Postby The Sotoan Union » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:42 am

There's nothing that says they can't choose. If I was raised Jewish I'm likely to stay Jewish, but I'm not forced to. Nothing will stop me if I decide to change religions. Just because most people won't doesn't mean that they can't.

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Servica
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Postby Servica » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:43 am

It's an affinity, just as ideology is.

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Postby Greater Weselton » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:43 am

Many people choose their religion.
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Archeuland and Baughistan
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Postby Archeuland and Baughistan » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:44 am

I think that Christianity is the truth, but people hop from religion to religion all the time. In most cases, it's from Christianity to secular atheism. I know the Christian church will always live on, though, even with a small remnant.
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Furry Alairia and Algeria
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:45 am

I have yet to see anything that says I can't be the bastardous mix of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Atheism, Buddhism. I simply follow none, but then again, I can choose which religion to learn from any of my family members. Religion in our family is...complicated to say the least.
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Postby The greater Vakolicci Haven » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:45 am

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:45 am

Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:I think that Christianity is the truth, but people hop from religion to religion all the time. In most cases, it's from Christianity to secular atheism. I know the Christian church will always live on, though, even with a small remnant.


Can you please learn what secularism means for fucks sake?

As for the OP, yes it's entirely possible. I myself went from being a fundamentalist Christian to a sort of Deist before I became an Atheist.
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Postby Olerand » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:45 am

That's ridiculous. Of course you can. Religions even have baptisms and other indoctrination rituals if you decide to join.

Religion is not biological. It's entirely social, and thus changeable.
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Postby Totus Plebeium » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:47 am

Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:I think that Christianity is the truth, but people hop from religion to religion all the time. In most cases, it's from Christianity to secular atheism. I know the Christian church will always live on, though, even with a small remnant.

You do know Christians can be secular right?
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:48 am

Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:I think that Christianity is the truth, but people hop from religion to religion all the time. In most cases, it's from Christianity to secular atheism. I know the Christian church will always live on, though, even with a small remnant.

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Postby Transoxthraxia » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:49 am

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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:28 pm

Sahrani South wrote:I was thinking that the modern liberal democratic system has to give people certain freedoms, including freedom from discrimination. One should not be discriminated because of colour, gender, sexual orientation age etc. These have one thing in common: Nobody chooses this, like, nobody says "I'm gonna become black".

I think this is perfectly fine, but I am really not sure if religion is something a human being can choose or has to stick with, as I would think many people are in a way born with their religion as in they are raised with it and have to stick with it, they can't choose.

So what do you think, is religion something like gender which can't be chosen, or more like a affinity that can be chosen?


you shouldn't be able to.

if you think you have a choice and still claim to be religious, then you don't really believe what you believe.

I can try as hard as I want and I simply can't believe that God exists ''on a balance of probabilities'' or ''beyond a reasonable doubt,'' based on what I've been told, how my brain interprets things, my intuition etc

If you are one of those people who do believe through a combination of factors that God exists ''on a balance or probabilities'' or ''beyond a reasonable doubt'' then you shouldn't just be able to change your mind without the introduction or subtraction of a fact/factor, or the re-interpretation of a critical fact/factor... which then resets the balance for you.

Being religious is like having a crush on a girl. You do not have a choice. Either you like the person or you do not. You can find out more about the person or you may get attracted to something else... but you can't consciously just suddenly decide to stop liking a person. It's not a conscious choice. You can have a conscious choice to find out more but you can't just flip a switch and turn it on or off at will.

Religion is not a choice.

If you think it is a choice, then there is a good chance you are pretending to believe what you say you believe.

Wearing a Christian hat does not make you a Christian, you actually have to believe in your heart that God exists on a balance or probabilities or beyond a reasonable doubt. And if you do, you can't just turn the switch off without something automatically resetting the balance.
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Furry Alairia and Algeria
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:29 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Wearing a Christian hat does not make you a Christian, you actually have to believe in your heart that God exists on a balance or probabilities or beyond a reasonable doubt. And if you do, you can't just turn the switch off without something automatically resetting the balance.

A better example would be wearing a Kippah doesn't make you Jewish, because there's no such thing as a "Christian Hat".
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Fanosolia
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Postby Fanosolia » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:30 pm

Some are born into it, some choose beliefs becuase it makes sense to them (which might be a philosophical debate within itself) or some have a spiritual experience that makes them believe. Make of that what you will, but it is how I see it.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:35 pm

Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Wearing a Christian hat does not make you a Christian, you actually have to believe in your heart that God exists on a balance or probabilities or beyond a reasonable doubt. And if you do, you can't just turn the switch off without something automatically resetting the balance.

A better example would be wearing a Kippah doesn't make you Jewish, because there's no such thing as a "Christian Hat".


I see...
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Postby Skinia » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:36 pm

I would contest the claim that religion is a choice. We can't really choose what we are the most well convinced of, especially if we've been indoctrinated at a young age. Yes, you can choose what customs and traditions to keep and what culture to follow even if it's attached to a religion or a certain religious group by default, but religion itself is a different story, I'd say.
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Postby Nortrom » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:37 pm

Servica wrote:It's an affinity, just as ideology is.


This. Also, a religion can be an ideology as well and some religions (notably Islam) are by definition a social and political ideology. For this reason, religions aren't something are you born with, even though most people grow up with one.
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Postby Aperonia » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:50 pm

Yes. Religion can be chosen.
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Hugohk
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Postby Hugohk » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:58 pm

Olerand wrote:That's ridiculous. Of course you can. Religions even have baptisms and other indoctrination rituals if you decide to join.

Religion is not biological. It's entirely social, and thus changeable.


By that logic, all entirely social things are changable.
Would be interesting to see what you think about gender roles.




On topic though,
I do not believe in free will at all, but to say that someone chooses a religion is ridiculous. You can start or stop believing in something, but not with a conscious choice. I do not decide what sort of religious upbringing (if any) I receive. I also do not control my surroundings, which really is the thing that makes us who we are. Religion isn't a choice, because it isn't choosen. Really isn't a debate.
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Hugohk
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Postby Hugohk » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:01 pm

Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:snip

A better example would be wearing a Kippah doesn't make you Jewish, because there's no such thing as a "Christian Hat".


Was the metaphor unclear, do you think?
Crysuko wrote:
Confederate Ramenia wrote:How did fascism become to "anarchists" and leftists in general what degeneracy is to "traditionalists" and other conservatives?

Because fascism has a track record of murder and oppression. "degeneracy" is a nebulously defined bogeyman cried by fascists and the like at stuff they disaprove of.


Contrary to popular belief, 98% of people would not cry if facebook shut down.
98% of people mindlessly repost any fucking quote that has a statistic in it though.

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The Sotoan Union
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Postby The Sotoan Union » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:03 pm

Hugohk wrote:
Olerand wrote:That's ridiculous. Of course you can. Religions even have baptisms and other indoctrination rituals if you decide to join.

Religion is not biological. It's entirely social, and thus changeable.


By that logic, all entirely social things are changable.
Would be interesting to see what you think about gender roles.




On topic though,
I do not believe in free will at all, but to say that someone chooses a religion is ridiculous. You can start or stop believing in something, but not with a conscious choice. I do not decide what sort of religious upbringing (if any) I receive. I also do not control my surroundings, which really is the thing that makes us who we are. Religion isn't a choice, because it isn't choosen. Really isn't a debate.

So converts aren't real. Those white people who grew up in first world countries and then went to the Himalayas to become Buddhist monks were conditioned to do so?

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Furry Alairia and Algeria
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:03 pm

Hugohk wrote:
Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:A better example would be wearing a Kippah doesn't make you Jewish, because there's no such thing as a "Christian Hat".


Was the metaphor unclear, do you think?

Actually, it was wrong. No such thing as a "Christian Hat", dis-including the Pope's Bunny hat, really exists, however a Jewish hat exists, like the Kippah/Yarmulke
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The Unites State-Of-Minds
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Postby The Unites State-Of-Minds » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:08 pm

Of course people can choose a religion, the issue is that when someone is raised with dogmatic beliefs they will refuse anything that doesnt fit within their understanding of reality. I would argue that people convert largely due to two reasons; influence from their social group and/or a shift in how they perceive the world. So why dont we dispense with the nonsense and raise all our children to be hypercritical and search for their own meaning. Religion as we know it will be gone within two generations.

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