NATION

PASSWORD

Involuntary Euthanasia: Is it ethical?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Popoputopialand
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: May 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Involuntary Euthanasia: Is it ethical?

Postby Popoputopialand » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:55 pm

The types of euthanasia that I am talking about include late-term abortions, murders, assassinations, eugenics, and the like. These have traditionally been utilized to get rid of undesirable people, including minorities and the disabled. Additionally, the methods used range from lethal injections and surgical procedures to torture and extremely painful deaths. However, some would argue that it depends on the circumstance. If your life is in jeopardy you may have the right to self defense, and late-term abortions can be necessary if the life of the mother is in play. However, the already developed fetus would be killed to spare her.

When I look at it, from a personal standpoint, I have to admit that this is highly circumstantial. Sometimes you have a right to kill someone; self defense, necessity, and other areas are more controversial, such as the mental capacity of an offender and eugenics. So, while I disagree with involuntary euthanasia in principle, I admit that sometimes, as awful as it is, this can be a viable option.

What are your thoughts?
Hello, everyone! I look forward to speaking to you!

User avatar
The Serbian Empire
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58107
Founded: Apr 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Serbian Empire » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:56 pm

Finally, an OP long enough. And I'm against involuntary actions.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~ WOMAN
Level 12 Myrmidon, Level ⑨ Tsundere, Level ✿ Hold My Flower
Bad Idea Purveyor
8 Values: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=56.1&d=70.2&g=86.5&s=91.9
Political Compass: Economic -10.00 Authoritarian: -9.13
TG for Facebook if you want to friend me
Marissa, Goddess of Stratospheric Reach
preferred pronouns: Female ones
Primarily lesbian, but pansexual in nature

User avatar
White Spider
Envoy
 
Posts: 311
Founded: Jul 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby White Spider » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:57 pm

Oxymoron

User avatar
MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:58 pm

Wut.
I'm sure you're willing to provide sources for all of your claims.

User avatar
White Spider
Envoy
 
Posts: 311
Founded: Jul 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby White Spider » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:58 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:Finally, an OP long enough. And I'm against involuntary actions.


I don't believe that. I bet you love your heart beating.

User avatar
New Aerios
Minister
 
Posts: 2250
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby New Aerios » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:59 pm

Abortion is not murder, and killing someone is justified when done in self defence or the defence of others. Acts of aggression are not justified.
-------------------------------I--M--P--E--R--I--V--M----N--O--V--A----A--E--R--I--O--S---------------------------------
"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong"

"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Chavezia
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Jul 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Chavezia » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:01 pm

White Spider wrote:Oxymoron

That's what I thought...

That's just murder...

User avatar
Britannic Realms
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1807
Founded: Apr 08, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Britannic Realms » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:19 pm

Abortions are ethical but the other stuff, particularly eugenics, is a big no-no.
British, Bisexual, Protestant

Pro: civil rights for all, Scottish unionism, electoral reform, mixed economics, NATO, Commonwealth, foreign aid, nuclear weapons
Neutral: Irish unionism, European Union
Anti: fascism, communism, neoliberalism, populism
Disclaimer: Many of my past forum posts (particularly the oldest ones) are not representative of my current views, I'm way more progressive than I was back then lol.

User avatar
Popoputopialand
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: May 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Popoputopialand » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:19 pm

it's murder some times and defense others. Once again. it's extremely complex.
Hello, everyone! I look forward to speaking to you!

User avatar
Popoputopialand
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: May 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Popoputopialand » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:26 pm

Does anyone agree with me?
Hello, everyone! I look forward to speaking to you!

User avatar
New Aerios
Minister
 
Posts: 2250
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby New Aerios » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:26 pm

Popoputopialand wrote:Does anyone agree with me?


Yes, I think everyone agrees that killing someone can be justified in self defence, but murder is wrong.
-------------------------------I--M--P--E--R--I--V--M----N--O--V--A----A--E--R--I--O--S---------------------------------
"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong"

"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Shaggai
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9342
Founded: Mar 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shaggai » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:28 pm

murders, assassinations, eugenics

Why are you using "involuntary euthanasia" as a term for "killing people"?
piss

User avatar
Liberaxia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Liberaxia » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:30 pm

New Aerios wrote:
Popoputopialand wrote:Does anyone agree with me?


Yes, I think everyone agrees that killing someone can be justified in self defence, but murder is wrong.


No shit, Sherlock, but the question at hand is whether euthanasia is murder. I happen to be of the opinion that it is and I also think "pulling the plug" is murder.
Favors: Civil Libertarianism, Constitutional Democratic Republicanism, Multilateralism, Freedom of Commerce, Popular Sovereignty, Intellectual Property, Fiat Currency, Competition Law, Intergovernmentalism, Privacy Rights
Opposes: The Security State, The Police State, Mob Rule, Traditionalism, Theocracy, Monarchism, Paternalism, Religious Law, Debt
Your friendly pro-commerce, anti-market nation.
On libertarians: The ideology whose major problem is the existence of other people with different views.

User avatar
New Aerios
Minister
 
Posts: 2250
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby New Aerios » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:32 pm

Liberaxia wrote:
New Aerios wrote:
Yes, I think everyone agrees that killing someone can be justified in self defence, but murder is wrong.


No shit, Sherlock, but the question at hand is whether euthanasia is murder. I happen to be of the opinion that it is and I also think "pulling the plug" is murder.


But that isn't the question at hand. Read the OP. He's talking about assassination, eugenics, torturing people to death etc.
Last edited by New Aerios on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-------------------------------I--M--P--E--R--I--V--M----N--O--V--A----A--E--R--I--O--S---------------------------------
"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong"

"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31807
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:34 pm

Shaggai wrote:
murders, assassinations, eugenics

Why are you using "involuntary euthanasia" as a term for "killing people"?

It will stop them from suffering any more of that congenital affliction known as life.
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
@Iseabbv Don't @ me

User avatar
Sociopia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 170
Founded: Jul 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Sociopia » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:34 pm

New Aerios wrote:Abortion is not murder.
Care to explain why?
Communitarian | Liberty is not an end in itself, but an occasionally convienient tool

User avatar
Herrebrugh
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15203
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Herrebrugh » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:35 pm

Liberaxia wrote:
New Aerios wrote:
Yes, I think everyone agrees that killing someone can be justified in self defence, but murder is wrong.


No shit, Sherlock, but the question at hand is whether euthanasia is murder. I happen to be of the opinion that it is and I also think "pulling the plug" is murder.


If it's not murder according to the law it isn't murder. As such, euthanasia, at least when requested by the patient themself (and with thorough screening) isn't murder in Netherland. It may very well be murder wherever you live.

I believe it shouldn't be. While I do believe there should be some kind of screening process to see whether someone is still capable of being healed, it should absolutely be allowed for someone to go "I'm suffering, it cannot be fixed, please end this now than next year" and have their request be fulfilled.
Uyt naem Zijner Majeſteyt Jozef III, bij de gratie Godts, Koningh der Herrebrugheylanden, Prins van Rheda, Heer van Jozefslandt, enz. enz. enz.
Im Namen Seiner Majeſtät Joſeph III., von Gottes Gnaden König der Herrenbrückinſeln, Prinz von Rheda, Herr von Josephsland etc. etc. etc.


The Factbook of the Kingdom of the Herrebrugh Islands
Where the Website-Style Factbook Originated!

User avatar
Herrebrugh
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15203
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Herrebrugh » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:35 pm

Sociopia wrote:
New Aerios wrote:Abortion is not murder.
Care to explain why?


Murder is a legal term. If it's a legal act, or otherwise simply not defined by the law as murder, it isn't murder.
Uyt naem Zijner Majeſteyt Jozef III, bij de gratie Godts, Koningh der Herrebrugheylanden, Prins van Rheda, Heer van Jozefslandt, enz. enz. enz.
Im Namen Seiner Majeſtät Joſeph III., von Gottes Gnaden König der Herrenbrückinſeln, Prinz von Rheda, Herr von Josephsland etc. etc. etc.


The Factbook of the Kingdom of the Herrebrugh Islands
Where the Website-Style Factbook Originated!

User avatar
Lunalia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 621
Founded: Oct 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lunalia » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:38 pm

Er.

Late term abortions are only used in cases where the fetus is already dead, or where carrying the fetus to term would seriously endanger the health of the mother. I'm not even getting into the whole pros and cons of abortion debate here, but late term abortions are not the same thing as first trimester abortions at all and should not be treated as such.

Late term abortions are pretty tragic, because the women who have them are women who wanted to have a child, but the fetus is too malformed to live. Why are you lumping them in with murder?
Last edited by Lunalia on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Wikkiwallana wrote:
Auralia wrote:
The Catholic Church teaches that participation in gay "commitment ceremonies" is wrong.

You may not have noticed, but New Mexico is not located in Vatican City.

User avatar
Russian Socialist Soviet States
Senator
 
Posts: 4493
Founded: Apr 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Russian Socialist Soviet States » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:11 pm

It is unethical.
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Sig.
This nation does not represent my real life views!

User avatar
Shaggai
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9342
Founded: Mar 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shaggai » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:12 pm

DesAnges wrote:
Shaggai wrote:Why are you using "involuntary euthanasia" as a term for "killing people"?

It will stop them from suffering any more of that congenital affliction known as life.

Ah, true.
piss

User avatar
Margno
Minister
 
Posts: 2357
Founded: Sep 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Margno » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:40 pm

New Aerios wrote:
Popoputopialand wrote:Does anyone agree with me?


Yes, I think everyone agrees that killing someone can be justified in self defence, but murder is wrong.

Well, not everyone. Not me, for example.
Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.
We have nothing to lose but the world. We have our souls to gain.
You!
Me.
Nothing you can possibly do can make God love you any more or any less.


Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Achan, Australian rePublic, Ceilikkell, Durius, Elejamie, Enormous Gentiles, Khardsland, Risottia, Tillania, Unoccupied New York

Advertisement

Remove ads