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Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

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Lubyak
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Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

Postby Lubyak » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:39 pm

To all whom it may concern,

If you are unaware, there is currently an active security council proposal to liberate the region of Haven. If this proposal were to pass, it would result in Haven losing its password protection, and thus being open to being ‘invaded’ in the raider/defender game. Indeed, this is the stated purpose of the proposal. However, we believe that the passage of such a proposal would have further implications for the Roleplay community, and these must be taken into account by the Moderation staff.

Mallorea and Riva wrote:Disappointed that many regions have taken to cowering behind passwords for protection for long durations rather than acting to strengthen themselves,

Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,


As you can see, there is no smokescreen at work. This is an active attempt to force roleplay regions to partake in the raider/defender game against their will. It is a continuation of the stated belief that gameplay should take precedence over roleplay on NationStates. The statements made by Mallorea and Riva heavily imply that all nations should be subject to the raider defender game, regardless of whether or not they wish to be a part of it. Furthermore, this move to involuntarily strip a region (which has, mind you, expressly stated its intent to remain independent of the Raider/Defender metagame) of its password protection has, by Mallorea and Riva’s own admission, been undertaken purely on the basis of assumptions and without providing any concrete proof; let alone addressing the belief of many that even if such proof existed, it would not justify this action.

Despite the repeated statements by moderation that he is “just another player”, people will see Mallorea and Riva as a Moderator and his views as representative of those of the Moderation team; it has happened repeatedly throughout the thread in question already.

We would like to stress that Mallorea and Riva is going against not only official policy, but the express wishes of the Site Admin ([nation][violet][/nation]) and the designed intent of the Liberation gameplay feature (Source). It is the opinion of those Mentors undersigned, as well as many within and without the Roleplaying community, that this singling out of one specific aspect of the NationStates community is irresponsible, reckless, and unbecoming of one who was trusted with this site’s guidance and safekeeping. Additionally, this act has served to further the perceived gap between the interests of the Roleplay community and those of the official NationStates moderation staff. This can only serve to increase animosity between player and Moderator.

We, the Mentor team, were charged with being the pillars of and guiding the Roleplay community. We were appointed with the task of giving them a sympathetic ear and a helping hand, but now we find that we must also serve as their voice. In response to this event, we have decided to take a united and unmoving stance. Though we wish to continue the spirit of cooperation with the Moderation staff, we find we cannot stay silent in this matter. We want the NationStates community to be a cooperative and fun place to be, for everyone, but this means not forcing one viewpoint or system of gameplay upon the entire community. We have grown too large and too diverse for such an option to be viable, and the Moderators involved in this incident must take note of this fact.

It is the opinion of the Mentor team that the Moderation staff must take note of the Roleplay community’s vocal and numerous concerns with this abuse of position, whether they feel it be real or perceived. The Roleplay community, by and large, wants no part of the Raider/Defender game. Our region passwords exist for this reason. This situation must remain unchanged for the good of the site.

Thank you.

Signed,
The NS Mentor Team
- Kylarnatia
- Feazanthia
- Lubyak
- Maltropia
- Oseato
- Virana
- Lyras
- Nightkill the Emperor
- Lamoni
- Zarkenis Ultima
- Wagdog
- Xiscapia
- Cerillium
- Swith Witherward
and the following nations,
- Belfras
- The United Regions
- Sebtopiaris
- Somstratzka
- Liecthenbourg
- The Kraven Corporation
- Dorlania
- Montesardo-East Adanzi
- New Tsavon
- Onekawa-Nukanor
- The Republic of Lanos
- Valentir
- Lavan Tiri
- Burlington-Sverige
- The Kraven Corporation
- Bunkeranlage
- Grenartia
- Samozaryadnyastan
- Ardoki
- New Armarzia
- Mitheldalond
- Elke and Elba
- Tiami
- Tianzhu
- Hobbiest Republic
- The Remnants of Kobol
- Grand Russian Federation
- Padnak
- The Floating Island of the Sleeping God
- Ruridova
- The Vaktovian Empire
- Arthurista
- Darussalam
- New Visegrad
- The Jonathanian States
- Romic
- Somstratzka
- United Kingdom of Poland
- Soldati senza confini
- Gristol-Serkonos
- New Mushroom Kingdom
- The New World Oceania
- The Saint James Islands
- Voltrovia
- Wisconsin9
- Yasuragi
- The Serbian Empire
- Sebtopiaris
- Somstratzka
- Lykosia
- Crystal Spires
- Kouralia
- Genaritia
- Agritum
- Vedria
- Herrebrugh
- Old Tyrannia
- Purpelia
- Malgrave
- Rodrania
- Rupudska
- Constaniana
- Fordorsia
- The Archangel Conglomerate
- Bezombia
- Nude East Ireland
- The Order of the Teutonic Knights
- Esternial
- United Regions of Verona
- Victoriala
- New Babylonia
- Alebcay
- Geanna
- Thoricia
- Uiiop
- The Ionian State
- New Aerios
- Astrolinium
- Shalum
- New Zepuha
- Alimeria-
- Castille de Italia
- Lemmrod
- Calabarzon
- Legendardisch
- Aushanit
- The Ancient World
- Lynion
- Ulfr-Reich
- Great Confederacy Of Commonwealth States
- United States of Natan
- Vicious Debaters
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- Oppressorion
P.S. This post is meant to ensure that members of the RPing community are made aware of the situation.

Please have some other links that are of relevance to this issue.

Discussion on RP Opt Out
Official Moderation Report on Haven SC Issue
Mallorea and Riva should resign
Code: Select all
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]


If you wish to sign this letter, please post with the phrase "I wish to sign" to make searching up those who want their names added easier.

Scolopendra wrote:
Delmonte wrote:We were essentially told that passwords WERE our opt-out and then, in the form of a pseudo-trolling by a Mod no less, we were told "Fuck you, they're not." We're being told that in order to not play the game we have to play the game. See what I mean?

Oh, I certainly do. This is part and parcel of my frustration: passwords have always been an imperfect opt-out and we spun them as though they are. We say "oh, RP and Gameplay are both equivalently valid and welcome and valuable methods to play" and the way regional mechanics work--are allowed to work--pretty much puts the lie to that.

I completely and understandably get the rage. From behind closed doors, I've reasoned, argued, cajoled, delivered, and shouted that rage to power for ten years.

Ten.

Years.

And this is where it's got us.

In all honesty, it's always been "in order to not play the game we have to play the game"--Gameplay is king; it's baked in right from the foundations up with how regional mechanics--not even capital-G Gameplay mechanics, just the bare-bones code--work. That's why that quote of mine that someone somewhere has in their sig has me saying that 'abusing the system is the game;' originally UN Delegates were just one step up from UN Members and regions had no controls, but people could move between them and they did, 'crashing' and 'camping' and 'squatting' and making themselves unwelcome. The Delegates were given regional controls to deal with the crashers/squatters/campers and then that meant that if the campers were UN Members themselves they could steal the Delegacy and kick everyone else out in regional griefing. We had to get elbows deep into ajudicating the difference between regional drama and for-the-lulz griefing, and that was horrendous, so we added Influence and Founders and passwords: Founders and passwords as something /like/ an opt out, and Influence to remove judgment calls regarding regional refounds. So of course Gameplay organizations used these tools themselves to build 'impenetrable' fortresses even as they figured out ways around the passwords by lurking and Founders by waiting for them to cease to exist. Liberations came up as a way to open up captured regions that were passworded, but of course, as we've all been made extremely aware as of late, that sword cuts two ways and can be used as a weapon of liberation or of violence depending on the whim of WA delegates and members.

Every single tool we've come up with to address the problem of--in my opinion--a certain level of interactional jerkery has only been incorporated into Gameplay, and TPTB dig that. They think it's cool and clever. I'll agree so far as it's clever.

So to bring my ramble back to full circle after the history lesson, the truth really is Gameplay uber alles; we've (the mods and admins) have only hidden that fact behind its implication in the code even while we say (and mean, in most cases) that everybody's equal and contributes value. We're as philosophically inconsistent as anyone else, especially when we think that we're trying to do the right thing. Fact of the matter is that, albeit without malice, you've been sold a bill of goods. We should come right out and say what the game mechanics prove: Gameplay takes precedence.

We don't, other than my occasional grumbling (someone found a link to where I admitted my opinion on R/D yonks ago) and we as mods-and-admin set ourselves up for this. This is the bed we've made, and if I've got anything to say about it (doubtful), we'll sleep in it because it's only fair.

Constaniana wrote:Nothing personal. I'd be quoting the same thing if it was Nerv or Farn who said it.

It's less "taking it personally" and more "outside of context it almost looks like I approve, when the intended tone was a gritted-teeth grimace."
Last edited by Lubyak on Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:14 am, edited 13 times in total.

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New Azura
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Postby New Azura » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:41 pm

Funny, I thought this was posted to International Incidents?

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Kylarnatia
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Postby Kylarnatia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:52 pm

I promise we're not inciting violence or mod-hatred, we just felt it appropriate to stand as the voice of reason.

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Maltropia
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Postby Maltropia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:03 pm

Kylarnatia wrote:I promise we're not inciting violence or mod-hatred, we just felt it appropriate to stand as the voice of reason.

And to bring this up for discussion, seeing as this is an extremely relevant thing to the RP communities.
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The Batorys
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Postby The Batorys » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:04 pm

Thanks for looking out for us, folks.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
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ViZion
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Postby ViZion » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:06 pm

As a former Mentor, and as a member of the NationStates community since near the beginning of this game, and as a member of the roleplay community, I am absolutely against said SC proposal. This is not something that should even be pushed in the WA, or attempted to be forced upon a region who does not participate in the raider/defender gameplay. To force a region - rather historic to an entire community of roleplayers like Haven, or a new and little known region who is trying to make a name for itself - against its will to remove its password protection and become involved in a part of the game they do not wish to be involved in is deplorable.

Just as we would never require or try to force raider/defender regions and players to roleplay on the forums, the same should go for the roleplay community. It has worked this way for so long for good reason, and to attempt to force such a change now is dangerous and extremely harmful to the entire roleplay community - and the NationStates community as a whole.
Last edited by ViZion on Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anemos Major
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Postby Anemos Major » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:15 pm

Kylarnatia wrote:I promise we're not inciting violence or mod-hatred, we just felt it appropriate to stand as the voice of reason.


It's neither of those things - it's pertinent, appropriate and absolutely needed.

Let's get this clear - when roleplayers across Nationstates, from the writers of II and P2TM to the factbook buffs of F&NI and everything in between some together to lament issues such as this, they don't do it out of any form of hate. They do it because of a deep love for the game they play, and a genuine desire to see it bettered for everybody's mutual enjoyment. That's why we're not calling for the abolition of R/D, or their absolute exclusion from the realm of roleplaying - what we're looking for is adequate protection against an intrusive and disruptive interpretation of the game that we haven't subscribed to, to be allowed to do what we do best on this site.

You guys are well within your rights to present to II what is another in a long line of proposed incursions into our ability to enjoy this game - hopefully, something will come of it this time.

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Feazanthia
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Postby Feazanthia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:22 pm

The Batorys wrote:Thanks for looking out for us, folks.


Just doin' our jobs.

Also, I encourage everyone to weigh in on the following threads:

On the topic of creating a barrier between the R/D game and the Roleplay community
On the topic of a moderator singling us out as a target and what should be done about it
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Kylarnatia
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Postby Kylarnatia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:24 pm

At the end of the day, the Mentor team and I just want to illustrate to the Moderators (and the rest of the game, really) that our side is just as important as the gameplay side of NS, and it's blatantly unfair that we have to succumb to their R/D game just because we have to.

It'd be completely daft to force every player to contribute to a roleplay annually, so why should we have to have any risk from raiding if we have no interest in the mechanic in the first place?
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:27 pm

Kylarnatia wrote:At the end of the day, the Mentor team and I just want to illustrate to the Moderators (and the rest of the game, really) that our side is just as important as the gameplay side of NS, and it's blatantly unfair that we have to succumb to their R/D game just because we have to.

It'd be completely daft to force every player to contribute to a roleplay annually, so why should we have to have any risk from raiding if we have no interest in the mechanic in the first place?

This. As a roleplayer I absolutely want nothing to do with the raider mechanics and would be ready to abandon the site if this passes.

So if you are collecting player signatures you can have mine any day.
Last edited by Purpelia on Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Padnak
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Postby Padnak » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:33 pm

I've sadly been banned from the WA so I won't be able to vote against this thing if it comes up, but as someone who enjoys rping (even if I'm not the greatest at at :oops:) I'll give my signature without hesitation


The entire concept of raiding in a game like nation states seems out of place imho and the community as a whole would be better off without it
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Nightkill the Emperor
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Postby Nightkill the Emperor » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:34 pm

I'm signing on to this as well.
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Kylarnatia
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Postby Kylarnatia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:36 pm

More key links for you to take a look at folks - might want to add them to the OP too.

Discussion about R/D and RP Opt-out
Complaints against Mallorea and Riva Thread
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Ikania
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Postby Ikania » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:40 pm

I completely agree. The Security Council was founded to prevent raids and help regions stay secure and stable, not to open them up for raiders in the name of 'activity'. So what if Haven wants a password? So what if they don't want to raid or defend? Haven does not need a liberation, and I find it disgusting that the raiders would try to do this through the SC.
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Lavan Tiri
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Postby Lavan Tiri » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:41 pm

I'll sign in. I'm not really an RPer like y'all, but i enjoy it, along with R/D gaming.
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The Tiger Kingdom
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Postby The Tiger Kingdom » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:43 pm

This entire debate is ridiculously one-sided, and it's a fucking joke that Mallorea actually posted that.
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Tiami
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Postby Tiami » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:43 pm

As the mentors can already assume, they have my support.

And to add on: Thank you mentors for writing this. It really will open the box for the RPing community to witness what has happened between GP and the RPing community.
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Lamoni
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Postby Lamoni » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:44 pm

Why wasn't my name added to the OP's list? :p
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Unicario
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Postby Unicario » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:44 pm

I vocalize my support against the measure to strip a region of it's password. Nobody should be forced to play a game they do not wish to play. You have my support, Mentors.
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The Republic of Lanos
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Postby The Republic of Lanos » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:46 pm

Sign me up for this letter.

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Gristol-Serkonos
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Postby Gristol-Serkonos » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:46 pm

You have my support, Mentors.

No region should be forced to play a game it does not want to play.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:46 pm

Thank you for informing us about the matter.

I agree, this proposal is beyond ridiculous.
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Voltrovia
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Postby Voltrovia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:46 pm

The Mentors have done a very good job "being the pillars of...the Roleplay community" and that you're willing to shape to community's response to this latest issue so effectively is very encouraging. I for one support the Mentors entirely on this.
Last edited by Voltrovia on Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Cata Larga
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Postby Cata Larga » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:51 pm

I approve wholeheartedly.

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Tiami
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Posts: 16286
Founded: Oct 24, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tiami » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:52 pm

I would like to point out… clarify one thing about R/D gameplay. While we're giving Mall Flak, we should be acutely aware that he is also a raider, and that many RPers in our community give the 'R/D' tag ownership to raiders. There are Defenders who try and protect regions from being defended. We should all thank them for their hard work in trying to quell a force no RPer desires to face.
Have RP questions? Send me a TG!
Also known as: Eragos and Visdrana
Can be found in: Gholgoth, Sondria

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