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Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

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Great Israel
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Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

Postby Great Israel » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:48 am

the hashtag #BringBackOurBoys has become popular among Jews around the world. We hoped our boys, 3 teenagers, one of them was an american citizen, will come back to their families. Unfortunately, 3 dead bodies were found...
The bodies are the 3 boys that we hoped to see alive again. Those Hamas dogs inhumane bastards planned to kidnap them and ask for a ransom. Appearently, the boys managed to call the police, but the dogs shot them to death when it happened. For 2 and a half weeks we searched for them, while we didn't realize we were looking for their bodies. May all of them rest in peace, and G-d avenge their death. 3
People thA were never mature enough to start living their own life, or explore the world.
You dont need to like the Jews or Israel to condemn an innocent killing for no reason of 3 teenagers that could have been me, or WILL be me tomorrow, or anyone else. some of you will say Israel 'does worse things...', some of you will even praise it, but this is a national tragedy. Yes, maybe some Arabs and Muslims dont see it as a tragedy because for them maybe, slaughtering 100 children a day is not tragic, but just 3 teenagres for us, IS A NATIONAL TRAGRDY!
Obama instead of condeming this thing, or at least condemn the fact one of them was american, says we should move forward and work for peace. does it seem to you that for now any Israeli (Rightist or Leftist, but Leftist for temporary period), will even think about how Palestine should be created since their people just did, that?
What do you say about it?

MOD EDIT: Merged following the Israeli ground action in Gaza. Please do not create separate threads on related subjects.
Last edited by Farnhamia on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:53 am

Very sad to hear about the deaths of these teens, though one part of me is relieved the whole situation is finally over. I hope Israel will soon release the 400 Palestinians it detained.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:16 pm

This should serve as the casus belli for Israel invading Gaza. They've been given more than enough chances, it is time for the Palestinians to be evicted from there and the land permanently annexed to the Jewish state.
Last edited by Saiwania on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:18 pm

Great Israel wrote:the hashtag #BringBackOurBoys has become popular among Jews around the world. We hoped our boys, 3 teenagers, one of them was an american citizen, will come back to their families. Unfortunately, 3 dead bodies were found...
The bodies are the 3 boys that we hoped to see alive again. Those Hamas dogs inhumane bastards planned to kidnap them and ask for a ransom. Appearently, the boys managed to call the police, but the dogs shot them to death when it happened. For 2 and a half weeks we searched for them, while we didn't realize we were looking for their bodies. May all of them rest in peace, and G-d avenge their death. 3
People thA were never mature enough to start living their own life, or explore the world.
You dont need to like the Jews or Israel to condemn an innocent killing for no reason of 3 teenagers that could have been me, or WILL be me tomorrow, or anyone else. some of you will say Israel 'does worse things...', some of you will even praise it, but this is a national tragedy. Yes, maybe some Arabs and Muslims dont see it as a tragedy because for them maybe, slaughtering 100 children a day is not tragic, but just 3 teenagres for us, IS A NATIONAL TRAGRDY!
Obama instead of condeming this thing, or at least condemn the fact one of them was american, says we should move forward and work for peace. does it seem to you that for now any Israeli (Rightist or Leftist, but Leftist for temporary period), will even think about how Palestine should be created since their people just did, that?
What do you say about it?

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:19 pm

Saiwania wrote:This should serve as the casus belli for Israel invading Gaza. They've been given more than enough chances, it is time for the Palestinians to be evicted from there and the land permanently annexed to the Jewish state.

So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:23 pm

I should also point out that the Israeli government hasn't actually provided any evidence that supports their claim that Hamas was behind the kidnappings and murders.
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Aodan
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Postby Aodan » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:25 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Saiwania wrote:This should serve as the casus belli for Israel invading Gaza. They've been given more than enough chances, it is time for the Palestinians to be evicted from there and the land permanently annexed to the Jewish state.

So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.

No if an American murders a Canadian, Canada should invade, win the war, rename it to South Canada, take over the world, GRAND CANADIAN EMPIRE.
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Evraim
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Postby Evraim » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:26 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Saiwania wrote:This should serve as the casus belli for Israel invading Gaza. They've been given more than enough chances, it is time for the Palestinians to be evicted from there and the land permanently annexed to the Jewish state.

So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.

If the government of Canada murders American citizens, then we would have a casus belli. That said, Hamas has not taken responsibility for the murders yet, and it is unlikely that they will do so officially. I expect the Israeli government to allocate resources for an investigation. After they have gathered enough evidence, harsher measures against terrorist insurgents in Gaza and the West Bank may be in order. This might even involve ousting Hamas from Gaza altogether since they have been a belligerent political actor since they gained control a few years back. Honestly, an Egyptian occupation would be preferable to an independent, radicalized Gaza.

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:28 pm

Merizoc wrote:So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.


What we have here is a track record of Palestinians making unreasonable demands for Israel to cease to exist and the fact that over and over again, they have been the ones to break any ceasefires in showing their blatant disrespect. Israel has tried handing out concessions but it hasn't worked, so I think Israel would be justified in taking aggressive action because they need a buffer zone for their protection.

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Mefpan
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Postby Mefpan » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:28 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Merizoc wrote:So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.


What we have here is a track record of Palestinians making unreasonable demands for Israel to cease to exist and the fact that over and over again, they have been the ones to break any ceasefires in showing their blatant disrespect. Israel has tried handing out concessions but it hasn't worked, so I think Israel would be justified in taking aggressive action because they need a buffer zone for their protection.

To be fair, there's not much space left in Gaza to carve out a buffer zone from.
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Free Tristania
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Postby Free Tristania » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Saiwania wrote:This should serve as the casus belli for Israel invading Gaza. They've been given more than enough chances, it is time for the Palestinians to be evicted from there and the land permanently annexed to the Jewish state.

Exactly. The time for talk is over: it's time for brutal reprisals.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Saiwania wrote:This should serve as the casus belli for Israel invading Gaza. They've been given more than enough chances, it is time for the Palestinians to be evicted from there and the land permanently annexed to the Jewish state.

So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.

Hamas is the Gaza government. Israel shouldn't invade, but this is like the Conservative Party of Canada killing Americans.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Merizoc wrote:So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.


What we have here is a track record of Palestinians making unreasonable demands for Israel to cease to exist and the fact that over and over again, they have been the ones to break any ceasefires in showing their blatant disrespect. Israel has tried handing out concessions but it hasn't worked, so I think Israel would be justified in taking aggressive action because they need a buffer zone for their protection.

Israel completely taking over the West Bank wouldn't be justified. What would be justified is Israel ending the occupation of the West Bank, and the Gaza blockade, and Hamas ceasing all terrorist action.
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Untaroicht
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Postby Untaroicht » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Mitt Romney would have treated Israel with ALOT more respect and dignity then obama has if he got elected, IMO.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:31 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Merizoc wrote:So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.

Hamas is the Gaza government. Israel shouldn't invade, but this is like the Conservative Party of Canada killing Americans.

Except we haven't even seen any evidence from the Israeli government that tells us Hamas was behind the murders.
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Cat Rangoon
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Postby Cat Rangoon » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:32 pm

Although a sad ocurrance, the loss of life can be and was in this case, this only goes to show how difficult it will be (if at all possible) for Israel and Palestine to reach an understanding. Too much death, from both sides. Too much hurt.
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Ikania
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Postby Ikania » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:33 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Great Israel wrote:the hashtag #BringBackOurBoys has become popular among Jews around the world. We hoped our boys, 3 teenagers, one of them was an american citizen, will come back to their families. Unfortunately, 3 dead bodies were found...
The bodies are the 3 boys that we hoped to see alive again. Those Hamas dogs inhumane bastards planned to kidnap them and ask for a ransom. Appearently, the boys managed to call the police, but the dogs shot them to death when it happened. For 2 and a half weeks we searched for them, while we didn't realize we were looking for their bodies. May all of them rest in peace, and G-d avenge their death. 3
People thA were never mature enough to start living their own life, or explore the world.
You dont need to like the Jews or Israel to condemn an innocent killing for no reason of 3 teenagers that could have been me, or WILL be me tomorrow, or anyone else. some of you will say Israel 'does worse things...', some of you will even praise it, but this is a national tragedy. Yes, maybe some Arabs and Muslims dont see it as a tragedy because for them maybe, slaughtering 100 children a day is not tragic, but just 3 teenagres for us, IS A NATIONAL TRAGRDY!
Obama instead of condeming this thing, or at least condemn the fact one of them was american, says we should move forward and work for peace. does it seem to you that for now any Israeli (Rightist or Leftist, but Leftist for temporary period), will even think about how Palestine should be created since their people just did, that?
What do you say about it?

*** Warned for trolling ***

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As Saiwania said, this will just be a casus belli (unreasonable justification IMO) for evicting Palestinians, police brutality against Palestinians, etc. But you know, what can we do, right? All the UN can do is shake it's fist and America will stick with Israel no matter what. Oh how I despise this world...
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Evraim
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Postby Evraim » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:34 pm

Merizoc wrote:Israel completely taking over the West Bank wouldn't be justified. What would be justified is Israel ending the occupation of the West Bank, and the Gaza blockade, and Hamas ceasing all terrorist action.

Ending the blockade is out of the question. It would be equivalent to permitting an unrepentant enemy to acquire more lethal arms in order to carry out indiscriminate attacks against the Israeli public. Not only would such a policy be political suicide, but it would also be unethical.

Merizoc wrote:Except we haven't even seen any evidence from the Israeli government that tells us Hamas was behind the murders.

I imagine we'll receive confirmation soon on whether or not Hamas is responsible. The Mossad is a top-notch intelligence agency, and the public outrage will be a strong motivating factor in ensuring that justice, or, at least, vengeance, is done. I really hope it is the former, though I dread that it will be the latter.
Last edited by Evraim on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Untaroicht
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Postby Untaroicht » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:38 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Great Israel wrote:the hashtag #BringBackOurBoys has become popular among Jews around the world. We hoped our boys, 3 teenagers, one of them was an american citizen, will come back to their families. Unfortunately, 3 dead bodies were found...
The bodies are the 3 boys that we hoped to see alive again. Those Hamas dogs inhumane bastards planned to kidnap them and ask for a ransom. Appearently, the boys managed to call the police, but the dogs shot them to death when it happened. For 2 and a half weeks we searched for them, while we didn't realize we were looking for their bodies. May all of them rest in peace, and G-d avenge their death. 3
People thA were never mature enough to start living their own life, or explore the world.
You dont need to like the Jews or Israel to condemn an innocent killing for no reason of 3 teenagers that could have been me, or WILL be me tomorrow, or anyone else. some of you will say Israel 'does worse things...', some of you will even praise it, but this is a national tragedy. Yes, maybe some Arabs and Muslims dont see it as a tragedy because for them maybe, slaughtering 100 children a day is not tragic, but just 3 teenagres for us, IS A NATIONAL TRAGRDY!
Obama instead of condeming this thing, or at least condemn the fact one of them was american, says we should move forward and work for peace. does it seem to you that for now any Israeli (Rightist or Leftist, but Leftist for temporary period), will even think about how Palestine should be created since their people just did, that?
What do you say about it?

*** Warned for trolling ***


He's talking about violent extremist murderers, I think it's okay to insult them, Farm.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:38 pm

Evraim wrote:
Merizoc wrote:Israel completely taking over the West Bank wouldn't be justified. What would be justified is Israel ending the occupation of the West Bank, and the Gaza blockade, and Hamas ceasing all terrorist action.

Ending the blockade is out of the question. It would be equivalent to permitting an unrepentant enemy to acquire more lethal arms in order to carry out indiscriminate attacks against the Israeli public. Not only would such a policy be political suicide, but it would also be unethical.

What's unethical is denying vital supplies to people in one of the most densely populated areas in the world. What's more, there's an overwhelming international consensus that the blockade is illegal.
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Mefpan
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Postby Mefpan » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:39 pm

Evraim wrote:
Merizoc wrote:Israel completely taking over the West Bank wouldn't be justified. What would be justified is Israel ending the occupation of the West Bank, and the Gaza blockade, and Hamas ceasing all terrorist action.

Ending the blockade is out of the question. It would be equivalent to permitting an unrepentant enemy to acquire more lethal arms in order to carry out indiscriminate attacks against the Israeli public. Not only would such a policy be political suicide, but it would also be unethical.

It would be ethical to stop the blockade, actually - it'd be one step towards improving the standard of life in Gaza.

It would be a strategically unsound move however, considering that Hamas won't just suddenly stop doing what the hell they're doing just because the blockade ended. Ending the blockade is not some miracle medicine - the Palestinians won't just forget it and won't suddenly stop resenting Israel for it; in the immediate term, it is more likely to cause further problems, even if keeping the status quo will be more problematic in the long term.

Untaroicht wrote:He's talking about violent extremist murderers, I think it's okay to insult them, Farm.

You may have missed the sweeping generalization of an insult that pretty much painted Muslims as a whole as corrupt, evil creatures that either draw joy from slaughtering children or are so incapable of emotion that they do not care about their own losses, so to say. I can't tell which way the insult was meant to be understood considering the train wreck the OP is, but in no way is that to be considered acceptable conduct.
Last edited by Mefpan on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Estado Paulista
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Postby Estado Paulista » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:41 pm

Oh, fuck.
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Evraim
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Postby Evraim » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:52 pm

Merizoc wrote:What's unethical is denying vital supplies to people in one of the most densely populated areas in the world. What's more, there's an overwhelming international consensus that the blockade is illegal.

Israel eased restrictions on the import of necessary household items and building materials back in 2010. The blockade focuses predominantly on goods which could contribute to Hamas's terror campaigns, and has shown strong results at curtailing the import of arms and rockets. That said, the admission of such materials requires the approval of the Palestinian Authority, while their appropriate use relies on proper allocation by local authorities.

Overwhelming international consensus? What we have are the nonbinding opinions of human rights groups, a few European governments, and inconsistent conclusions from the UN. They declared the blockade legal in 2011, but have also, at various times, condemned it. The principal question is whether the blockade represents a collective punishment or a legitimate response to aggression. A full lifting of the blockade is not reasonable since Hamas has a track record of abusing the privilege of free trade.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:55 pm

Is there any way to loosen the blockade and still maintain security? Even a bit?
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Postby Geilinor » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:00 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Is there any way to loosen the blockade and still maintain security? Even a bit?

The blockade is mostly on military goods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip#New_blockade_policy_by_Israel
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