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Should Puerto Rico be granted statehood?

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Should the US grant statehood to Puerto Rico?

Yes
165
80%
No
42
20%
 
Total votes : 207

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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Should Puerto Rico be granted statehood?

Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:35 pm

I know there have been topics on this before, but I'd like to discuss it based not just on the 2012 referendum...

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2012/1108/Does-Puerto-Rico-really-want-to-become-the-51st-US-state

On the first of two ballot questions yesterday, 54 percent voted to change its current status from a United States commonwealth. The problem is that those 54 percent are divided among statehood, independence, and a third option. Those who want statehood and those who want independence are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to Puerto Rico's sovereignty, yet both vote "yes" when asked to change the current status.

On the second question about what alternative should be chosen, 61 percent chose statehood, 33 percent chose "sovereign free association" and 6 percent chose independence.


...but based on recent development and problems that stem from us not confirming statehood.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26/puerto-rico-debt-crisis_n_4862032.html

Puerto Rico's debt crisis results from the island's status as a United States territory lacking the benefits of statehood, according to Puerto Rico's representative in Congress.

"I'd say that this debt that has piled up for decades in Puerto Rico is directly related to our status," Pedro Pierluisi said on Huffpost Live Wednesday, arguing for a fundamental policy shift. “We're talking about two or three billion dollars that we're losing every year because of our territorial status.”

The island has been a U.S. territory for 115 years, and its people have been U.S. citizens since 1917. Still, Puerto Ricans cannot vote in U.S. presidential elections, have no representation in the Senate and only limited representation in the House of Representatives. More than 10,000 Puerto Ricans are active-duty members of the U.S. military, and the island is home to more than 120,000 veterans. Although Pierluisi has a seat in Congress, he can't vote on legislation, much like Eleanor Holmes Norton, the District of Columbia delegate.

"When you look at our status, the main economic development strategy was to give tax breaks to companies doing business in Puerto Rico," Pierluisi said. "On the one hand, what we did was benefit from that strategy. But that got old. On the other side of the equation, Puerto Rico is not fully funded in many federal programs."


So, in light of their disadvantages as a territory, should the US grant statehood to Puerto Rico?

I would say yes, especially in light of these disadvantages. The only qualifier I would put on that is that I think there should be one more referendum just to be more sure.

So, NSG, should the US grant statehood to Puerto Rico?
Last edited by Post-Keynesian Economics on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lunatic Goofballs
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:37 pm

'annex' Puerto Rico???? :?

Um, dude. Puerto Rico has been part of the United States since 1898 and their residents have been US Citizens since 1917. :p
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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:37 pm

You can't annex territory that's already part of your country.
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Scissoro
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Postby Scissoro » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:37 pm

Yes, it should become the 51st state... along with Iraq since we conquered it too :p
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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:41 pm

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:You can't annex territory that's already part of your country.


Lunatic Goofballs wrote:'annex' Puerto Rico???? :?

Um, dude. Puerto Rico has been part of the United States since 1898 and their residents have been US Citizens since 1917. :p


I'll change the wording for clarity. But for the record, one of the definitions of "annex" is to "incorporate territory into a city/region/country" etc.
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:42 pm

Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
OMGeverynameistaken wrote:You can't annex territory that's already part of your country.


Lunatic Goofballs wrote:'annex' Puerto Rico???? :?

Um, dude. Puerto Rico has been part of the United States since 1898 and their residents have been US Citizens since 1917. :p


I'll change the wording for clarity. But for the record, one of the definitions of "annex" is to "incorporate territory into a city/region/country" etc.


Yep. That happened in 1898. :p
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:43 pm

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:


I'll change the wording for clarity. But for the record, one of the definitions of "annex" is to "incorporate territory into a city/region/country" etc.


Yep. That happened in 1898. :p


"Incorporate territory," as in bringing a "territory" into statehood is an act of annexation.
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Postby America Libertaria » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:45 pm

No, most definitely not. I favor granting them independence more than anything else. Besides they are way too culturally different from America. Besides it'll be the beginning of the end of using English as our primary language.

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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:48 pm

America Libertaria wrote:No, most definitely not. I favor granting them independence more than anything else. Besides they are way too culturally different from America. Besides it'll be the beginning of the end of using English as our primary language.


I disagree on both counts. First, language evolves and chances are that America will develop it's own distinct language that blends English, Spanish and possibly other languages. That's the these things go. Second, Puerto Rico isn't that culturally different. I should know. I'm half Puerto Rican.
Last edited by Lunatic Goofballs on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:50 pm

Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Yep. That happened in 1898. :p


"Incorporate territory," as in bringing a "territory" into statehood is an act of annexation.


Not every piece of territory we've annexed has become a state. Some of it has become part of existing states. Some are still territories like Guam and American Samoa.
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Postby Silent Majority » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:50 pm

If they want to, I don't see why not. Especially because they're kinda shafted as it is, because they have no say in the political process.
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Postby Geilinor » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:52 pm

Yes, I think we should give Puerto Rico statehood, but we naturally are going to get people screaming about "cultural and linguistic differences" which really aren't that big of a deal or even that different.
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America Libertaria
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Postby America Libertaria » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:53 pm

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
America Libertaria wrote:No, most definitely not. I favor granting them independence more than anything else. Besides they are way too culturally different from America. Besides it'll be the beginning of the end of using English as our primary language.


I disagree on both counts. First, language evolves and chances are that America will develop it's own distinct language that blends English, Spanish and possibly other languages. That's the these things go. Second, Puerto Rico isn't that culturally different. I should know. I'm half Puerto Rican.


Puerto Rico is pretty culturally different and that's ignoring the language barrier, besides being part Puerto Rico doesn't give you much credibility. If anything your using it as anecdotal evidence which isn't all to popular on NSG. On the language evolution thing, I guess we just have different preferences on how American English should evolve. I recognize that it evolved but I definitely do not want it evolving with Spanish in the mix.

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Postby Inventio » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:53 pm

But... what about our pretty even number of states? And then all the fourth graders would have to memorize another state capital. Think of the children! :p

Honestly, I don't see why not.
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:55 pm

America Libertaria wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
I disagree on both counts. First, language evolves and chances are that America will develop it's own distinct language that blends English, Spanish and possibly other languages. That's the these things go. Second, Puerto Rico isn't that culturally different. I should know. I'm half Puerto Rican.


Puerto Rico is pretty culturally different and that's ignoring the language barrier, besides being part Puerto Rico doesn't give you much credibility. If anything your using it as anecdotal evidence which isn't all to popular on NSG. On the language evolution thing, I guess we just have different preferences on how American English should evolve. I recognize that it evolved but I definitely do not want it evolving with Spanish in the mix.


Tough titty. I really don't think you are going to get much say in the process. But let me ask you this: Is Puerto Rico any more culturally different than Hawaii was when it became a state?
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Postby Silent Majority » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:57 pm

America Libertaria wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
I disagree on both counts. First, language evolves and chances are that America will develop it's own distinct language that blends English, Spanish and possibly other languages. That's the these things go. Second, Puerto Rico isn't that culturally different. I should know. I'm half Puerto Rican.


Puerto Rico is pretty culturally different and that's ignoring the language barrier, besides being part Puerto Rico doesn't give you much credibility. If anything your using it as anecdotal evidence which isn't all to popular on NSG. On the language evolution thing, I guess we just have different preferences on how American English should evolve. I recognize that it evolved but I definitely do not want it evolving with Spanish in the mix.


There are more spanish speakers in the continental US than there are in Puerto Rico, if our language is going to become more influenced by spanish, then it will happen regardless of the official status of Puerto Rico.
Last edited by Silent Majority on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby America Libertaria » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:59 pm

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
America Libertaria wrote:
Puerto Rico is pretty culturally different and that's ignoring the language barrier, besides being part Puerto Rico doesn't give you much credibility. If anything your using it as anecdotal evidence which isn't all to popular on NSG. On the language evolution thing, I guess we just have different preferences on how American English should evolve. I recognize that it evolved but I definitely do not want it evolving with Spanish in the mix.


Tough titty. I really don't think you are going to get much say in the process. But let me ask you this: Is Puerto Rico any more culturally different than Hawaii was when it became a state?


Definitely. Many Americans moved to Hawaii to start (pineapple?) plantations. And the American population there grew quite a lot. More than Puerto Rico definitely. Personally I'd let Puerto Rico have a shot at independence but keep ties close.

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Postby United Furry Alliance » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:02 pm

As the son of a Puerto Rican mother I vote for statehood partially because I believe the island won't have much success if it goes the route of independence.
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:02 pm

America Libertaria wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Tough titty. I really don't think you are going to get much say in the process. But let me ask you this: Is Puerto Rico any more culturally different than Hawaii was when it became a state?


Definitely. Many Americans moved to Hawaii to start (pineapple?) plantations. And the American population there grew quite a lot. More than Puerto Rico definitely. Personally I'd let Puerto Rico have a shot at independence but keep ties close.


Well, we invented Barbecue. I rest my case. 8)
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Postby Estormo » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:03 pm

Yes, of course.
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Postby Qazox » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:05 pm

Still surprised that it's not yet, after the 2012 referendum. Adding 3.6 million Spanish speaking citizens shouldn't be a problem nor is the culture, as Hispanic culture is becoming more "normal" in the US. The only reason is political, as the Democrats & Republicans are afraid of giving 4 electoral votes to the other side.
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Postby Albanor » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:06 pm

If the Puerto Ricans want statehood then I say we give them statehood.

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Postby Libertarian California » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:14 pm

No. They ought to either be given independence or remain as they currently are.
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Postby Libertarian California » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:15 pm

America Libertaria wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
I disagree on both counts. First, language evolves and chances are that America will develop it's own distinct language that blends English, Spanish and possibly other languages. That's the these things go. Second, Puerto Rico isn't that culturally different. I should know. I'm half Puerto Rican.


Puerto Rico is pretty culturally different and that's ignoring the language barrier, besides being part Puerto Rico doesn't give you much credibility. If anything your using it as anecdotal evidence which isn't all to popular on NSG. On the language evolution thing, I guess we just have different preferences on how American English should evolve. I recognize that it evolved but I definitely do not want it evolving with Spanish in the mix.


This. I have a lot of family in Puerto Rico, and even I oppose statehood, for many of these reasons and more.
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Postby Libertarian California » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:15 pm

America Libertaria wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Tough titty. I really don't think you are going to get much say in the process. But let me ask you this: Is Puerto Rico any more culturally different than Hawaii was when it became a state?


Definitely. Many Americans moved to Hawaii to start (pineapple?) plantations. And the American population there grew quite a lot. More than Puerto Rico definitely. Personally I'd let Puerto Rico have a shot at independence but keep ties close.


I believe Hawaii ought to be stripped of its statehood and made a territory once again.
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