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LGBT Rights & Issues Thread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Farnhamia
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Democratic Socialists

LGBT Rights & Issues Thread

Postby Farnhamia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:12 pm

This is the mod-sanctioned LGBT (etc.) thread designed for discussion of:

A) The struggle of non-heterosexual people to achieve equality in society; or the struggle to establish or re-establish heterosexuality as the legally-sanctioned norm for society

B) specific instances of these struggles (court cases and decisions);

C) progress and set-backs in these processes (US states legitimizing same-sex marriage or banning it).

The Moderation team have been concerned at the extent to which recent threads on this subject have tended to turn into one great big troll/flamebait fest faster than you say “Jack Robinson.” It's our hope that by starting a mod-sanctioned thread we can slow this tendency down (even if we can't entirely stop it), and encourage a more civil debate between different perspectives.

We will treat this thread with similar stringent conditions to those we use for US Presidential election threads:

In addition to the usual rules regarding no flaming, no baiting, and no trolling, we we also rigidly enforce no mocking nicknames, and no gloating.

There are three other rulings specific to this thread:

1) Referring to non-heterosexual persons as mentally ill or equating not being heterosexual as akin to being a pedophile will - in most cases - bring us down on you like a ton of bricks.

2) Deliberately misgendering people who have declared their preferred personal pronoun will make the ton of bricks look like a ton of feathers.

3) Discussions of religious prohibitions on non-heterosexual behavior will be tolerated to the extent that they do not evolve into general discussions of religions or a particular religion. Everything said above about how trolling and flaming non-heterosexuals applies equally to trolling and flaming religious people.

CLAIMS SHOULD BE SOURCED. But specifically note the following.... Wikipedia is an acceptable source; as are major media outlets, regardless of their perceived bias or lack thereof. Noting that a major media outlet has a particular orientation is valid; squabbling over whether a particular source is valid or not simply on the basis of its political orientation is strongly discouraged. Disagreeing with Wiki or a major media outlet is absolutely fine, but counterclaims should also be sourced.

If we find that people are exploiting loopholes in the above rulings, or coming up with new ways of insulting each other that are specific to this topic, we reserve the right to edit this OP to address these accordingly.

We encourage you to be polite to each other. We appreciate that this is a topic over which people have strong feelings - but this is no excuse to be rude. And yes, this is mod-sanctioned despite the lack of a Mod owning the OP.

Here is the OP from the Colorado baker thread:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples
appears that if you own a private business you cant decide who you do business with or not anymore
in this story a judge ordered a Colorado baker to make a cake for a gay couple who married in Massachusetts and wanted a wedding cake to celebrate in Colorado. The Judge said if the baker refused then he would have to pay a fine.

OP thought: I don't like it when some same sex couples use their sexual orientation to force people into doing things their way and if they didn't fold they would face a lawsuit for discrimination. and I read the story their is also discrimination on part of the judge & the gay couple they are forcing someone to do something that goes against their religious beliefs.

So NS any words?

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Last edited by Farnhamia on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
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Tarsonis Survivors
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:12 pm

I was hoping you wouldn't notice.....
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Farnhamia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:13 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I was hoping you wouldn't notice.....

We notice everything, and you really need to stop doing that at night.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:14 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I was hoping you wouldn't notice.....

We notice everything, and you really need to stop doing that at night.


But I can see my neighbors better....
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:15 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I was hoping you wouldn't notice.....

We notice everything, and you really need to stop doing that at night.


That's a scary thought. I really don't want Big Farn watching me.
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Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik
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Ex-Nation

Postby Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:16 pm

I'm sure calling my grandfather an idiot is perfectly fine.

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Neutraligon
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:17 pm

Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:I'm sure calling my grandfather an idiot is perfectly fine.


Take it to moderation, there is already a thread there for the thread.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Tarsonis Survivors
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:17 pm

Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:I'm sure calling my grandfather an idiot is perfectly fine.



When you cite him as a source, yes.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Llamalandia
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Posts: 10637
Founded: Dec 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Llamalandia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:18 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:We notice everything, and you really need to stop doing that at night.


That's a scary thought. I really don't want Big Farn watching me.


Meh, i just always assumed he was an NSA agent anyway. :p

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Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik
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Postby Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:19 pm

No thanks, I'm done with this double standard.

If I called someone's grandfather an idiot, I would be deleted and my IP Address banned.

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Llamalandia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Llamalandia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:20 pm

Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:No thanks, I'm done with this double standard.

If I called someone's grandfather an idiot, I would be deleted and my IP Address banned.


I seriously doubt that would happen for a first offense. :)

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:20 pm

Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:No thanks, I'm done with this double standard.

If I called someone's grandfather an idiot, I would be deleted and my IP Address banned.



You, can't advocate genocide, and then play the victim. Doesn't work that way.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Neutraligon
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 31308
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:20 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
That's a scary thought. I really don't want Big Farn watching me.


Meh, i just always assumed he was an NSA agent anyway. :p


Did you see my response about how the gene/genes that assist in causing homosexuality may be on the x chromosome, and may affect females as well as males. Specifically it affects how likely a person will be attracted to men. Doesn't explain lesbians but there is that. In addition, women who have gay siblings tend to have more children then those who do not.
http://news.sciencemag.org/math/2008/06 ... good-women
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Dragoria
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Dragoria » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:21 pm

Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:No thanks, I'm done with this double standard.

If I called someone's grandfather an idiot, I would be deleted and my IP Address banned.
That would depend on your history with Moderation.
As it stands, your grandfather's intelligence level is not a LGBT issue.
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Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik
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Ex-Nation

Postby Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:21 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:No thanks, I'm done with this double standard.

If I called someone's grandfather an idiot, I would be deleted and my IP Address banned.



You, can't advocate genocide, and then play the victim. Doesn't work that way.

Either way, this is off topic.

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Llamalandia
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Founded: Dec 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Llamalandia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:21 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:No thanks, I'm done with this double standard.

If I called someone's grandfather an idiot, I would be deleted and my IP Address banned.



You, can't advocate genocide, and then play the victim. Doesn't work that way.


Actually, I'm not sure he specifically advocated genocide, more apartide and nazi medicine really. ;)

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Neutraligon
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:22 pm

Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

You, can't advocate genocide, and then play the victim. Doesn't work that way.

Either way, this is off topic.


Yes it is, The other topic has disappeared, but you should post your complaints in moderation.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Tarsonis Survivors
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:22 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

You, can't advocate genocide, and then play the victim. Doesn't work that way.


Actually, I'm not sure he specifically advocated genocide, more apartide and nazi medicine really. ;)


Semantics
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik
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Posts: 323
Founded: Feb 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:22 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:No thanks, I'm done with this double standard.

If I called someone's grandfather an idiot, I would be deleted and my IP Address banned.



You, can't advocate genocide, and then play the victim. Doesn't work that way.

I understand that those of you who do not have love for your families would not get angry at such a statement, but there are those who still value family members and hearing something like that resurrects a previously existing extremely bad anger problem.

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:23 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:
Actually, I'm not sure he specifically advocated genocide, more apartide and nazi medicine really. ;)


Semantics


Not really, one is advocating the death of others, while the other is advocating separation and horrific "treatment".
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ALMF
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Ex-Nation

Postby ALMF » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:23 pm

It seems to me the bakers reaction appears to be a good indication of the moral charictor of the religion in question. Despicable being the moral charictor in question. The same applies to monotheism in general and faith in general. As to practitioners it tends to move them in that direction but it is escapable. In any case why is religion (of all things) given a pass on discrimination.
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Left over right: 5.99
Libertarian over authoritarian: 4.2,
non-interventionist over neo-con: 5.14
Cultural liberal over cultural conservative: 7.6

You are a cosmopolitan Social Democrat. 16 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 5 percent are more extremist than you.

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Llamalandia
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Founded: Dec 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Llamalandia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:23 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:
Meh, i just always assumed he was an NSA agent anyway. :p


Did you see my response about how the gene/genes that assist in causing homosexuality may be on the x chromosome, and may affect females as well as males. Specifically it affects how likely a person will be attracted to men. Doesn't explain lesbians but there is that. In addition, women who have gay siblings tend to have more children then those who do not.
http://news.sciencemag.org/math/2008/06 ... good-women


Interesting, though male bisexuality would seem to be somewhat inconsistent with this model unless I missed something. ;)

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Neema
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Ex-Nation

Postby Neema » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:23 pm

I'm just here to listen.
_[' ]_
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http://riserevolt.wordpress.com/

E#;B

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Founded: Feb 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:24 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Semantics


Not really, one is advocating the death of others, while the other is advocating separation and horrific "treatment".


Again that's still semantics, but whatever.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Neutraligon
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 31308
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:24 pm

Osterreichischen Faschistischen Republik wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

You, can't advocate genocide, and then play the victim. Doesn't work that way.

I understand that those of you who do not have love for your families would not get angry at such a statement, but there are those who still value family members and hearing something like that resurrects a previously existing extremely bad anger problem.


Can we please stay on topic. I don't want to derail this thread on the first page.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

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