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NS Non-Military Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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NS Non-Military Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:58 am

Seeing how Mk. 3 is practically dead and I won't risk gravedigging it as I've been recently warned several times about that, I present to you *drumroll* NS Non-Military Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 4

Although judging by the title pretty much anything would be on-topic as long as it is not military-related, the main thing will probably be government-related realism, e.g. police or whatever

NS Non-Mil Realism Consultation Thread Mk. 3 [DEAD]

Please obey the site rules and idk what else.. hopefully this will be more successful than the last one and not die after 4 pages. Enjoy.
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:01 pm

To kick it off, let's discuss police. In RN all patrol cars are staffed by a minimum of 2 policemen unlike the US or other places with 1-man patrols fairly common. How about you?
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:38 pm

You should probably try and find links to 1 and 2.

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Alfegos
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Postby Alfegos » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:01 pm

I would've thought the two man patrol common sense, regards to taking down people for arrest, keeping control of an incident, and (worst case scenario) giving them a fighting chance should one of them go man down.

On patrol, allows you to have both driver and passenger observing, so spotting things that may not immediately be visible. The driver will probably be focussing more on the road (I would hope), so a passenger who's there observing things other than the road would probably be helpful.

In pursuit, even better - you've got the driving officer able to focus on fast, safe pursuit, whilst the passenger gives directions or navigates, operates the radio, etc.

Whilst I haven't written an article on this sort of thing for NS, I was having the Police operate in two man patrols. In the paramlitary police (the ISS), the two man "teams" are components of eight man "sections", the entire section operating together to patrol a set geographic area, or on a deliberate operation acting as an eight-man unit (e.g. building clearance).
The People's Nation of Alfegos (Fego'rai'toi) - Novan Nation - Modern Tech
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>>> [22:56] <Kyrusia>: I'd rather f**k an HIV-positive cheese grater.
>>> [22:58] <Anemos>: not even sure this qualifies as 'sexual imagery' anymore

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Alfegos
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Postby Alfegos » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:02 pm

Also, whilst we're on non-military realism...

Magnetic levitation trains as a viable alternative to conventional high speed rail - discuss. I was looking at a trunk link covering long distances between the largest cities, with branches to international airports and a couple select cities.
And, what would having such a network entail for existing heavy rail networks across the country?
The People's Nation of Alfegos (Fego'rai'toi) - Novan Nation - Modern Tech
Alliances/Accords: The Fegosian Union/Free World Alliance/Dagora/Theeb/CSS/Hegemony
Overseas Territories: New Alfegos/Neo'Ilos(Oraz)/Neo'delgi/Neo'los/Ge'fegos/Tho'lara(Hervia)/Claim #19
Current Operations: Operation Goshawk (FU)/Lamoni Evacuations
Storefronts: Alfegos Aeronautics - Airships, Aircraft, Armaments
Factbook|Embassy Exchange
For Fegosian Union enquires, please TG.
Spoiler contains all basic information and current engagements. Always interested in new RPs.
>>> [22:56] <Kyrusia>: I'd rather f**k an HIV-positive cheese grater.
>>> [22:58] <Anemos>: not even sure this qualifies as 'sexual imagery' anymore

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Britinthia
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Postby Britinthia » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:22 pm

Britinthia's Police operate in 1 or 2 person teams as required. On a Monday afternoon in a quiet shopping centre a single community officer* is more than enough of a presence.
However in a trouble spot in the early hours of the morning a minimum two officer, taser** armed team is absolutely required.
Traffic cops operate in two man teams all the time due to the particularly stressful situations they find themselves in.

*Think of Community Officers as baby-police, less authority but more of a friendly face. Never taser armed. Usually part-time.
** Wireless tasers, technically electrolasers, are issued to 90% of Police on duty, minus the above exception. They are considered a better alternative to regular non lethal weapons and reduce the requirement for firearms response. Britinthian Police have a very low number of incidents where tasers are discharged, and an even lower rate of firearms use. Only a single person has ever been killed by police and only 12 shot in the past 40 years.
I set out to create a nation based on few laws, and common sense. Then I realised people are half wits who will use any excuse to test the boundries, and no boundries would be anarchy. Britinthia now has red tape on a scale never before seen outside of the U.K.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:41 pm

Having a 2-man patrol (whether on foot, in vehicles, or whatever) is better than 1 man because of a number of reasons:

  • Better situational awareness - two sets of eyes, ears and so forth. It's more probable for something to be noticed at least by one of the officers.
  • Takes stress and load off - an officer can provide back-up whilst the other is performing an action that requires his full attention and that would otherwise leave him defenseless in the face of a sudden attack, for example - so he can do his job properly knowing the other's got his back
  • Overall better policing - 2 guns are better than one, 2 officers will immobilize an individual better than a single one could, etc.
  • Increased safety - if one of them is injured or seems to go missing back up is always right there
  • Rules are followed more closely - a dirty or abusive cop will not last at all unless he's lucky enough to be paired with a one just like him, which is statistically improbable

..and the list can really go on and on. This has long been the norm with FDs and EMS so I think police should follow suit. Really I think that I'll make it so that all out-of-station work (i.e. not desk work) is done in pairs.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:03 pm

I am definitely equipping all my police officers with puncture and cut-resistant gloves. They're really not that expensive and even if they were, they'd pay for themselves 10000 fold taking into account medical treatment for a slash or stab in the palm, or even worse, getting infected with a bloodborne pathogen. (not to mention officer "down-time" or if their palm would ever fully recover). Of course they are not puncture or cut-proof, but I think they're strong enough to at least allow an officer to grip the blade of a knife in a suspect's hand without fearing a cut. Also useful when patting down people so you don't get nasty things like needles, blades or other sharp dirty shit stinging ya.

Now, I'm wondering if I should give them sap gloves or hard knuckles. If you are not familiar with sap gloves, they are basically gloves which have an integrated baggie filled with sintered (small particles) lead iirc (primarily on the knuckles/top of hand). These present a number of advantages over a bare fist, providing a harder striking surface and adding weight to the punch while actually protecting the hand/knuckles. Sap gloves provide a larger striking area compared to knuckles or hard-knuckle gloves, which is probably better for police use. The former transfer more concussive force (the kind that makes you go unconscious among other things from what I understand), whereas the latter concentrate all that force on a small area which means more tissue damage (cuts/bruises, broken bones, etc.) .

Should I go the (metaphorically) cheap way by integrating both features :lol: ? So you have hard knuckles, and sap fingers and backpalm for those good ol fashioned pimp slaps
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Britinthia
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Postby Britinthia » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:42 am

The problem with using heavy gloves when patting someone down is that you have more material between you and the suspect, increasing the chances you will miss something. That said, for everything else they make life so much easier and absolutely should be standard issue.

Secondly why would your Police possibly need sap gloves? Unless you have a particularly high rate of violent crime then your average criminal doesnt warrant being knocked about by what I can only assume are two burly coppers with hard knuckles.
I set out to create a nation based on few laws, and common sense. Then I realised people are half wits who will use any excuse to test the boundries, and no boundries would be anarchy. Britinthia now has red tape on a scale never before seen outside of the U.K.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:35 am

Britinthia wrote:The problem with using heavy gloves when patting someone down is that you have more material between you and the suspect, increasing the chances you will miss something. That said, for everything else they make life so much easier and absolutely should be standard issue.

Secondly why would your Police possibly need sap gloves? Unless you have a particularly high rate of violent crime then your average criminal doesnt warrant being knocked about by what I can only assume are two burly coppers with hard knuckles.


Hmm.. interesting! Wouldn't have thought of that but thanks a lot!

Punches aren't intended as a primary weapon in the officer's "inventory" - in broad lines, guns are mainly deployed for armed (no matter the type of weapon, firearm or not) or unarmed but unusually large/aggressive individuals, tasers for unarmed but hostile types, and the pepper spray is reserved for lesser noncompliant suspects who aren't considered much of a risk. When a suspect has been partially immobilized but still resists arrest, the pepper spray and taser along with holds and other immobilization techniques may be used, as guns would be considered excessive in most situations, but in extreme cases they too can be used. This doesn't mean that the police can't point a gun at an unarmed individual - quite the opposite , this is fully endorsed - but if the situation requires a weapon to actually be used, the taser is preferable.

Police officers will find themselves in certain situations where they will want or need to use hand to hand combat or their telescopic batons - and these can too be used lawfully if rules are respected. Aside from attempting to arrest a very stubborn, aggressive or severely intoxicated individual where the taser and pepper spray have failed, hand to hand combat (or the telescopic baton) will generally mostly be used as a last resort/instinctive weapon in extreme situations such as unexpected attacks or when an officer somehow loses his or her weapon to the suspect. Seeing how in these situations each blow is crucial, you want to be as effective as you can and get as much incapacitating damage out of each punch as you can.

Use of Force rules:

  • Lethal - to prevent death or severe injury to self or others - any weapon including guns and tasers -> vital organs (primarily center of torso, or head)
  • Less lethal - to prevent injury to self or others - any weapon including guns and tasers -> non-vital organs (primarily legs, or arms)
  • Reduced risk - to arrest non-compliant individuals - holds, pepper spray and in certain situations punches, kicks, etc. , then telescopic baton and finally taser -> non-vital organs
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:42 pm

Let's discuss equipment - what do you equip your officers with?

Standard equipment includes a handgun, taser, pepper spray and telescopic baton.

Typical patrol cars have a rifle AND shotgun in between the front seats.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Postby Themiclesia » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:56 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:Let's discuss equipment - what do you equip your officers with?

Standard equipment includes a handgun, taser, pepper spray and telescopic baton.

Typical patrol cars have a rifle AND shotgun in between the front seats.

Truncheons and a big grin :)

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Britinthia
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Postby Britinthia » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:21 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:Let's discuss equipment - what do you equip your officers with?

Standard equipment includes a handgun, taser, pepper spray and telescopic baton.

Typical patrol cars have a rifle AND shotgun in between the front seats.



Remind me not to break the law near one of your patrol cars. XD


Standard uniform:
Black short sleeve t-shirt,
Black microfleece,
Black trousers,
Body armour,
Yellow Hi vis body armour cover
Black body armour cover,
Black utility belt,
Black peaked cap or custodian helmet (bowler hat for female officers),
Yellow Hi visibility jacket,
Black leather gloves.

Standard equipment:
Handcuffs,
Pepper spray,
Telescopic Baton,
Wireless taser (read: electrolaser),
Disposable gloves,
Disposable mask,
Personal radio,
Small tablet,
Notebook and pen,
First aid kit.


Community officers have the following diffrences;
Hi-vis yellow stab vest,
Navy blue shirt,
Navy blue peaked cap or bowler hat (no helmet),
Navy blue jacket,

They are also not issued with;
Taser,
Baton,
Tablet.
Last edited by Britinthia on Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I set out to create a nation based on few laws, and common sense. Then I realised people are half wits who will use any excuse to test the boundries, and no boundries would be anarchy. Britinthia now has red tape on a scale never before seen outside of the U.K.

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Connagh
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Postby Connagh » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:39 pm

Alfegos wrote:Also, whilst we're on non-military realism...

Magnetic levitation trains as a viable alternative to conventional high speed rail - discuss. I was looking at a trunk link covering long distances between the largest cities, with branches to international airports and a couple select cities.
And, what would having such a network entail for existing heavy rail networks across the country?



I've considered this also. On a past nation (PMT) the transport system was virtually all MagLev and PRTs. It was viable then as in the near future we imagine that the production, maintenance and other associated costs would go down.

I'm not sure either if MagLev trains have any considerable deficiencies in terms of weight capabilities. Would they be able to carry the same load as conventional (freight) trains?

Ideally for my current nation I'd like MagLev trains to be the main mode of transport across the country, behind the personal car, but I'm unsure if that's realistically possible in terms of money and practicality.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:48 pm

Good to see this kicking off. Keep at it people.

Really, my police officers also carry knives, and I was reticent in revealing this because people be all like "police brutality!!!111" and stuff, but in fact, it is more of a traditional IC thing, and they're only to be used for extreme situations, such as when an officer has been disarmed by a perp, or for utility purposes.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Britinthia
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Postby Britinthia » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:12 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:Good to see this kicking off. Keep at it people.

Really, my police officers also carry knives, and I was reticent in revealing this because people be all like "police brutality!!!111" and stuff, but in fact, it is more of a traditional IC thing, and they're only to be used for extreme situations, such as when an officer has been disarmed by a perp, or for utility purposes.


Like a swiss army knife or folding knife, or more of a fixed blade?
I think those squared off seatbelt cutters would be handy, hadnt thought of it until you mentioned knives though.
Personally I wouldnt suggest knifes = brutality. If you already have firearms in your cars then a knife doesnt seem 'worse'. Id not issue knifes at all. But then my Police force is very different to yours.
I set out to create a nation based on few laws, and common sense. Then I realised people are half wits who will use any excuse to test the boundries, and no boundries would be anarchy. Britinthia now has red tape on a scale never before seen outside of the U.K.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:09 pm

Britinthia wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:Good to see this kicking off. Keep at it people.

Really, my police officers also carry knives, and I was reticent in revealing this because people be all like "police brutality!!!111" and stuff, but in fact, it is more of a traditional IC thing, and they're only to be used for extreme situations, such as when an officer has been disarmed by a perp, or for utility purposes.


Like a swiss army knife or folding knife, or more of a fixed blade?
I think those squared off seatbelt cutters would be handy, hadnt thought of it until you mentioned knives though.
Personally I wouldnt suggest knifes = brutality. If you already have firearms in your cars then a knife doesnt seem 'worse'. Id not issue knifes at all. But then my Police force is very different to yours.


They're very seldom (if at all) used IRL by police for combat purposes.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Postby Alfegos » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:29 am

Rate my equipment choice if you would.

POLICE

> Uniform, Police (Dark Blue) - Trousers, Shirt/UBACS
> Side Hat, Dark Blue - Worn on patrol and other duties. Substituted for a helmet where necessary.
> Armour, "Guardian" - Level II body armour, with stab proof fabric and MOLLE loops
> Boots - From the military issue series - Normally Tier I Patrol OR Tier I Driver
> Gloves, Combat - Protective
> Identity Tabs - Mounted on shoulders and back, Give officer's number, rank, and specialism (if applicable). IRR Dye used to maximise visibility on cameras
> Identity Tapes - On armour (back and front) and sleeve tops, stating "POLICE" and the force's Insignia

> Radio, UHF - Multi channel secure UHF, from a civilian supplier (normally civilianised versions of military equipment). Comes with optional headset.
> Notebook, Waterproof + 3x Pens
> Handcuffs
> Plasticuffs x 3 (For multiple detainments/failure of handcuffs)
> Search Kit (Contains 8x Nitrile glove pairs, 6x Evidence bags, Tags for evidence, and 2x Permanent makers)
> Medical Kit (CMS-1AV and CMS- 1CIII, with civilianised components)

> Baton, Extendable - For assisting with arrest/self defence
> Spray, Yellow #6A - For assisting with arrest. A spray containing capsaicin, and a unique UV marker allowing trace of use to a particular officer/tracking of escaped detainees
> Emergency Tool - Combination window punch and seatbelt cutter.
> Utility tool - Multi-tool (of the type made by Gerber) for general purpose activities.

Officers will also be issued with optional items, dependent on conditions and training:
> Warm Kit (Thermals, and a Heavyweight Jacket - High Visibility)
> Wet Kit (Lightweight Poncho - High Visibility)
> Tablet, Electronic - Where necessary, in non-routine situations (e.g. ANPR interception, ISTAR)

> TASERNET Shock Gun, Level I (Stun) or Level II (Incapacitate) - After firearms training to the First and Second Level
> EK-2 Pistol, 9mm - After firearms training to the Second level (supervised) and Third Level (Unsupervised)


=========================

Connagh wrote:
I've considered this also. On a past nation (PMT) the transport system was virtually all MagLev and PRTs. It was viable then as in the near future we imagine that the production, maintenance and other associated costs would go down.

I'm not sure either if MagLev trains have any considerable deficiencies in terms of weight capabilities. Would they be able to carry the same load as conventional (freight) trains?

Ideally for my current nation I'd like MagLev trains to be the main mode of transport across the country, behind the personal car, but I'm unsure if that's realistically possible in terms of money and practicality.


I did some looking at the train technology, and with my nation made the assumption that investment began in the 80s, and construction began realistically in the mid 90s onwards, with upgrades during construction.

From the looks of things, the only real issue comes from the initial investments in the new technology, and incompatibility with existing systems, at the present time. Otherwise, you get better values with costs as:
> The trains can go up steeper gradients, reducing the need for tunneling in rural areas.
> Maintenance costs are far, far lower - the track wear is environmental only, and the train wear is confined to the electronics (no moving parts). This more than outweighs any wear to the pantograph and overhead lines.
> At high speed, the power consumption is much lower that conventional trains. At lower speeds, this becomes the inverse, so one has to take care with looking at the distances of each stretch.
> You can near fully automate the system, reducing running costs from the signals and staff. Just have to be aware of computer systems failures.
> Seemingly, the system is safer, and can safely brake and descend in the event of a power failure.

With regards to lines, in my system, the lines run alongside the express road routes, in hope of reducing costs, better access, and dealing with the eyesore nature of the system at times. There would be cuttings and tunnels around populated areas, to reduce issues of space and noise, though I'd assume that one would have to consider better ventilation and airflow schemes to prevent massive issues with suction and wind in the tunnels. The lines themselves would be the metal rail mounted onto concrete, with signal wires placed alongside to DETECT and to SIGNAL the train.

The trains themselves would likely be quite large. For freight, the trains would be very limited - something like 40 tonnes per carriage - so one would likely want to use such trains for postal/courier delivery at low times, and leave the containerised/very heavy goods to the conventional heavy rail. That, and I'm assuming that having lower weights for freight on one of these trains would lead to longer life of the magnets.

===

Britinthia wrote:The problem with using heavy gloves when patting someone down is that you have more material between you and the suspect, increasing the chances you will miss something. That said, for everything else they make life so much easier and absolutely should be standard issue.

Secondly why would your Police possibly need sap gloves? Unless you have a particularly high rate of violent crime then your average criminal doesnt warrant being knocked about by what I can only assume are two burly coppers with hard knuckles.


When you pat someone down, normally you take your combat gloves off and put the rubber/latex/nitrile thin gloves on. They're cleaner, for a start, and are better at protecting both the person from your germs, and you from the person's germs/blood/etc. As for Sap gloves, the pair I had was brilliant for more strenous activity in the urban environment, but for your beat copper aren't really necessary.
The People's Nation of Alfegos (Fego'rai'toi) - Novan Nation - Modern Tech
Alliances/Accords: The Fegosian Union/Free World Alliance/Dagora/Theeb/CSS/Hegemony
Overseas Territories: New Alfegos/Neo'Ilos(Oraz)/Neo'delgi/Neo'los/Ge'fegos/Tho'lara(Hervia)/Claim #19
Current Operations: Operation Goshawk (FU)/Lamoni Evacuations
Storefronts: Alfegos Aeronautics - Airships, Aircraft, Armaments
Factbook|Embassy Exchange
For Fegosian Union enquires, please TG.
Spoiler contains all basic information and current engagements. Always interested in new RPs.
>>> [22:56] <Kyrusia>: I'd rather f**k an HIV-positive cheese grater.
>>> [22:58] <Anemos>: not even sure this qualifies as 'sexual imagery' anymore

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Astholm
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Founded: Jan 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Astholm » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:25 am

OK, to keep the realism going, is this sort of thing realistic - being a series of nations as one sovereign state, like the United Kingdom is (Astholm is partially and partially not based on the United Kingdom, politically but may be not geographically, although the iconic UK shape is used for the main islands with England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Also, there are many exclaves of the nation that are enclaved within other regions, but politically part of Astholm.

Image

Also, in terms of setting/geography, with regards to streets and city layout, is it normal to still have streetlighting that's 20-30 years old alongside modern-day ones, e.g. as here:
Image
Image
Image
[spoiler=About Me]Based on the United Kingdom, but enlarged version with alternate history.
On IIWiki
I have multiple puppets here; only a select few are used to represent the continent of Astholm; others used represent Westholme, and do not artificially boost my nation's statistics.Previously i used puppets with nation names that did not identify as Astholm (e.g. Australis Australia; now all new puppets use ASTHLM, NORTHLM, SOUTHLM, WESTHLM (HLM denoting The Holmes.
NOTE: Other uses of Astholm here have a different continuity and refer to work created by the user Astholm, not the nation

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Alfegos
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Founded: Jul 22, 2007
Father Knows Best State

Postby Alfegos » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:06 am

Astholm wrote:OK, to keep the realism going, is this sort of thing realistic - being a series of nations as one sovereign state, like the United Kingdom is (Astholm is partially and partially not based on the United Kingdom, politically but may be not geographically, although the iconic UK shape is used for the main islands with England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Also, there are many exclaves of the nation that are enclaved within other regions, but politically part of Astholm.

(Image)

Also, in terms of setting/geography, with regards to streets and city layout, is it normal to still have streetlighting that's 20-30 years old alongside modern-day ones, e.g. as here:


1> Yes. It's called federalism, if you want to put a name on it. Go for it.

2> Streetlights... again, probably not normal. If you want another name for it, it's called laziness (i.e. not getting rid of the old one).
The People's Nation of Alfegos (Fego'rai'toi) - Novan Nation - Modern Tech
Alliances/Accords: The Fegosian Union/Free World Alliance/Dagora/Theeb/CSS/Hegemony
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>>> [22:56] <Kyrusia>: I'd rather f**k an HIV-positive cheese grater.
>>> [22:58] <Anemos>: not even sure this qualifies as 'sexual imagery' anymore

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Astholm
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Founded: Jan 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Astholm » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:12 am

Alfegos wrote:
1> Yes. It's called federalism, if you want to put a name on it. Go for it.

2> Streetlights... again, probably not normal. If you want another name for it, it's called laziness (i.e. not getting rid of the old one).


With regard to 1) I understand that.

However, due to the ethnic mix of my nation, with English, Irish, Scottish, Slavic peoples, Scandinavians, Walloons, Dutch, Flemish, French,
German, along with Indian ethnic groups and some Black people, how could this work as a sort of empire and what sort of culture clashes etc. could I expect that would make for a good RP regarding things like government etc. ?
[spoiler=About Me]Based on the United Kingdom, but enlarged version with alternate history.
On IIWiki
I have multiple puppets here; only a select few are used to represent the continent of Astholm; others used represent Westholme, and do not artificially boost my nation's statistics.Previously i used puppets with nation names that did not identify as Astholm (e.g. Australis Australia; now all new puppets use ASTHLM, NORTHLM, SOUTHLM, WESTHLM (HLM denoting The Holmes.
NOTE: Other uses of Astholm here have a different continuity and refer to work created by the user Astholm, not the nation

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Kouralia
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Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:24 am

Astholm wrote:Also, in terms of setting/geography, with regards to streets and city layout, is it normal to still have streetlighting that's 20-30 years old alongside modern-day ones, e.g. as here:

If it's just the aesthetics you want rather than 'we cba to remove the old ones' then just say that they have laws in place from ages back to protect the eyes of the public from aesthetic monstrosities or something. The village where I live has green streetlamps, and you can see the expansion of 'Downley' from 'Downley Village', because the green lights stop a road-or-so before the sign for 'you're leaving teh village' appears.

Anyway, my query: anyone watch Top Gear last night? Gibbs Quadski for Police y/n?
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Alfegos
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Founded: Jul 22, 2007
Father Knows Best State

Postby Alfegos » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:36 am

Astholm wrote:
Alfegos wrote:
1> Yes. It's called federalism, if you want to put a name on it. Go for it.

2> Streetlights... again, probably not normal. If you want another name for it, it's called laziness (i.e. not getting rid of the old one).


With regard to 1) I understand that.

However, due to the ethnic mix of my nation, with English, Irish, Scottish, Slavic peoples, Scandinavians, Walloons, Dutch, Flemish, French,
German, along with Indian ethnic groups and some Black people, how could this work as a sort of empire and what sort of culture clashes etc. could I expect that would make for a good RP regarding things like government etc. ?


The best example of a place to look at for such a state of affairs would be Russia. The Russian Federation is, as you know, a federal state consisting of numerous subjects, ranging from your "states" (the Oblast) to autonomous republics and countries (for example - Tartarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan). With it working as an empire, you'd probably be interested in the history of it all . Some subjects see that the Russian state benefits them enourmously, whilst others want out for a number of historical greviences, with dissent coming to the fore after the breakup of the totalitarian regime in the USSR.
As far as I'm aware, you will always get clashes and demands for independence - look at the UK for example. How you deal with it depends on your policies - you can go for decentralisation and devolution of powers, or you can centralise command, and somewhat intimidate people more, and give no scope for people to consent to violence.

Within your government at least, you would have plenty of intrigues resulting from a diverse ethnic breakup. The normal thing to find is that politicians will either seek to homogenise an empire (We are All Citizens of the Empire), or force splits along perceived lines to turn their supporters against others, thus gaining them support and power (e.g. I am Scottish, I am English, I am Cornish). Thus the diversity would come in to play if you have certain politicians trying to make a name for themselves in their governed regions. You'll likely see it as a regional thing, not really an empire level thing. Plenty of things you can do to have it reasonable, and to show the dynamics of nations as they form, merge or split.
The People's Nation of Alfegos (Fego'rai'toi) - Novan Nation - Modern Tech
Alliances/Accords: The Fegosian Union/Free World Alliance/Dagora/Theeb/CSS/Hegemony
Overseas Territories: New Alfegos/Neo'Ilos(Oraz)/Neo'delgi/Neo'los/Ge'fegos/Tho'lara(Hervia)/Claim #19
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For Fegosian Union enquires, please TG.
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>>> [22:56] <Kyrusia>: I'd rather f**k an HIV-positive cheese grater.
>>> [22:58] <Anemos>: not even sure this qualifies as 'sexual imagery' anymore

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Founded: Aug 23, 2013
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:30 pm

Alfegos wrote:
Rate my equipment choice if you would.

POLICE

> Uniform, Police (Dark Blue) - Trousers, Shirt/UBACS
> Side Hat, Dark Blue - Worn on patrol and other duties. Substituted for a helmet where necessary.
> Armour, "Guardian" - Level II body armour, with stab proof fabric and MOLLE loops
> Boots - From the military issue series - Normally Tier I Patrol OR Tier I Driver
> Gloves, Combat - Protective
> Identity Tabs - Mounted on shoulders and back, Give officer's number, rank, and specialism (if applicable). IRR Dye used to maximise visibility on cameras
> Identity Tapes - On armour (back and front) and sleeve tops, stating "POLICE" and the force's Insignia

> Radio, UHF - Multi channel secure UHF, from a civilian supplier (normally civilianised versions of military equipment). Comes with optional headset.
> Notebook, Waterproof + 3x Pens
> Handcuffs
> Plasticuffs x 3 (For multiple detainments/failure of handcuffs)
> Search Kit (Contains 8x Nitrile glove pairs, 6x Evidence bags, Tags for evidence, and 2x Permanent makers)
> Medical Kit (CMS-1AV and CMS- 1CIII, with civilianised components)

> Baton, Extendable - For assisting with arrest/self defence
> Spray, Yellow #6A - For assisting with arrest. A spray containing capsaicin, and a unique UV marker allowing trace of use to a particular officer/tracking of escaped detainees
> Emergency Tool - Combination window punch and seatbelt cutter.
> Utility tool - Multi-tool (of the type made by Gerber) for general purpose activities.

Officers will also be issued with optional items, dependent on conditions and training:
> Warm Kit (Thermals, and a Heavyweight Jacket - High Visibility)
> Wet Kit (Lightweight Poncho - High Visibility)
> Tablet, Electronic - Where necessary, in non-routine situations (e.g. ANPR interception, ISTAR)

> TASERNET Shock Gun, Level I (Stun) or Level II (Incapacitate) - After firearms training to the First and Second Level
> EK-2 Pistol, 9mm - After firearms training to the Second level (supervised) and Third Level (Unsupervised)


=========================

Connagh wrote:
I've considered this also. On a past nation (PMT) the transport system was virtually all MagLev and PRTs. It was viable then as in the near future we imagine that the production, maintenance and other associated costs would go down.

I'm not sure either if MagLev trains have any considerable deficiencies in terms of weight capabilities. Would they be able to carry the same load as conventional (freight) trains?

Ideally for my current nation I'd like MagLev trains to be the main mode of transport across the country, behind the personal car, but I'm unsure if that's realistically possible in terms of money and practicality.


I did some looking at the train technology, and with my nation made the assumption that investment began in the 80s, and construction began realistically in the mid 90s onwards, with upgrades during construction.

From the looks of things, the only real issue comes from the initial investments in the new technology, and incompatibility with existing systems, at the present time. Otherwise, you get better values with costs as:
> The trains can go up steeper gradients, reducing the need for tunneling in rural areas.
> Maintenance costs are far, far lower - the track wear is environmental only, and the train wear is confined to the electronics (no moving parts). This more than outweighs any wear to the pantograph and overhead lines.
> At high speed, the power consumption is much lower that conventional trains. At lower speeds, this becomes the inverse, so one has to take care with looking at the distances of each stretch.
> You can near fully automate the system, reducing running costs from the signals and staff. Just have to be aware of computer systems failures.
> Seemingly, the system is safer, and can safely brake and descend in the event of a power failure.

With regards to lines, in my system, the lines run alongside the express road routes, in hope of reducing costs, better access, and dealing with the eyesore nature of the system at times. There would be cuttings and tunnels around populated areas, to reduce issues of space and noise, though I'd assume that one would have to consider better ventilation and airflow schemes to prevent massive issues with suction and wind in the tunnels. The lines themselves would be the metal rail mounted onto concrete, with signal wires placed alongside to DETECT and to SIGNAL the train.

The trains themselves would likely be quite large. For freight, the trains would be very limited - something like 40 tonnes per carriage - so one would likely want to use such trains for postal/courier delivery at low times, and leave the containerised/very heavy goods to the conventional heavy rail. That, and I'm assuming that having lower weights for freight on one of these trains would lead to longer life of the magnets.

===

Britinthia wrote:The problem with using heavy gloves when patting someone down is that you have more material between you and the suspect, increasing the chances you will miss something. That said, for everything else they make life so much easier and absolutely should be standard issue.

Secondly why would your Police possibly need sap gloves? Unless you have a particularly high rate of violent crime then your average criminal doesnt warrant being knocked about by what I can only assume are two burly coppers with hard knuckles.


When you pat someone down, normally you take your combat gloves off and put the rubber/latex/nitrile thin gloves on. They're cleaner, for a start, and are better at protecting both the person from your germs, and you from the person's germs/blood/etc. As for Sap gloves, the pair I had was brilliant for more strenous activity in the urban environment, but for your beat copper aren't really necessary.


I guess the load out sounds about right if civilians can't own guns in your country. But Tasers don't have a lot in common with guns at all so this
After firearms training to the First and Second Level
doesn't make a lot of sense. Training a police officer in using a firearm does not suffice if you want him to use a Taser. So really, you should either have separate training if you have separate policemen, a kind armed with Tasers and the other armed with firearms - or to integrate not only firearms but also Taser training if all who receive said training can use both.

I assume "stun" = the "close-in" feature of tasers (the one where you don't actually fire a taser "cartridge" ) whereas "incapacitate" is the ranged function? Also who would a "supervised" Taser or firearm equipped officer be actually supervised by?

By the way, I don't know if you've heard of the 21 foot rule:

It's a rule originating from research by Salt Lake City trainer, Dennis Tueller "rule" states that in the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet.


As a reference, actual TASER-brand electroshock weapons fire cartridges with (supposedly effective) ranges between 15 and 35 feet. So yeah, even if I were anti-gun I wouldn't risk failing to at least equip each and every one of my officers with Tasers with ER (extended range) cartridges. I'd argue that not doing at least that is a sign of not caring for the safety of your policemen. Safety should come first, ideology and politics second. No matter how hoplophobic/anti-weapon your government or society is in general, and regardless of how much this is reflected in your laws, bladed and blunt weapons will still be in virtually omnipresent supply so to speak.

This may come off as another political comment but really the above rule is widely considered to be accurate so I'd genuinely worry about the safety of my policemen if I were you.

EDIT: Otherwise, if I were a cop I'd probably need to constantly carry something as ridiculous as a machete in order to have enough confidence to do my job. And that wouldn't be sufficient let alone ideal either.
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Kouralia
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Posts: 15016
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:21 pm

Kouralian Regional Constabulary Equipment:

Image


Uniform:
  • Boots, one pair, Black. Or, Dress Shoes, one pair, Black. Or, Boots (Eq), two pairs, Black. Or, Dress Shoes (Eq), two pairs, Black.
  • Uniform Trousers, one pair. Or, Uniform Shorts, one pair. Or, Dress Trousers, one pair.
  • Uniform shirt, one. Or, Uniform Polo-shirt, one. Or, Uniform T-shirt, one. Or, Dress Shirt, one.
  • Dress Jacket, One. Or Dress Jacket with Cross-belt, One.
  • Dress Tie, One.
  • Service Cap, One. Or, Combat Headdress Mk ix, one. Or, Beret (Police), One. Or, Side-Cap (Police) (Eq), One.
  • Rank Slide, two. Or, Rank Slide, four.
  • Optional: Stab-proof Vest, One. Or, Ballistic Vest, One.
  • Optional: Cold-Weather Coat, one, and Cold-Weather Gloves, one pair.
  • Optional: Jacket, Waterproof, One.
Belt Kit:
  • 1x notepad
  • 2x Pen/pencil
  • 1x Truncheon, Wood, General Service.
  • 1x Pair, Rigid Handcuffs.
  • 5x Flexi-cuffs (i.e. plastic ties)
  • 1x Canister, Spray (Irritant), General Service.
  • 1x Radio
  • 1x Personal First-aid Kit
  • 1x Multi-tool
  • 1x Torch
  • 1x Forensics kit
  • 1x Whistle, General Service.
Role Specific:
Optional Weapons:
  • 1x ASP Police (.455). Or, 1x Revolver (.455). With: 3x Magazines (.455). Or, 2x Speedloaders (.455).
  • 1x Taser. With: 2x Additional Cartridges.
  • 1x Fulmine Tradizionale. Or, 1x FulmineCompatto. Or, 1x SMG. Or, 1x Combat Rifle. Or, 1x Marksman's Rifle. With: 'X'x Shells. Or 6x Magazines. Or 6x Magazines. Or 6x Magazines.

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:EDIT: Otherwise, if I were a cop I'd probably need to constantly carry something as ridiculous as a machete in order to have enough confidence to do my job. And that wouldn't be sufficient let alone ideal either.

If it goes well (i.e. application accepted, exam results good) then I'll probably be an unpaid, part-time police officer with no taser nor a pistol (Because, you know, Britain isn't tyrannical (or it is tyrannical, depending on whether an armed populace is important to you or not)) by October/November.
send doots
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The Times of Kurton - National News Source
Risen Britannia wrote:"England has been invaded at various points throughout its history. Fortunately, every invader mysteriously became English when they took over, thus leaving England undefeated."

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