Amanda Knox Acquitted of 07 Murder by Italy’s Highest Court

[Farnhamia]

So an Italian court has reinstated the guilty verdict on Amanda Knox.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25975395

Should the US agree to extradite Amanda Knox to Italy to serve the remainder of the sentence? She won't go voluntarily, so it is either extradition or the Italians can start following the US lead and use some special rendition .

Personally I think the US should agree to extradition.

Mod edit: the title

[Mad Jack]

A cursory glance at the United States - Italy extradition treaty suggests that Knox has to be extradited...

Hope she is.

[Bulgar Rouge]

Ugh, I thought this chewing gum case had long been forgotten. Extradite her, be done with it and get back to media topics that actually matter.

[Napkiraly]

Extradite her.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

A cursory glance at the United States - Italy extradition treaty suggests that Knox has to be extradited...

Hope she is.

I'm pretty sure there's a valid exception there, seeing as how it's double jeopardy and all.
I honestly don't have an opinion, but the sheer amount of bullshit in the Italian court system in going back and forth like this isn't exactly inspiring.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I'm pretty sure there's a valid exception there, seeing as how it's double jeopardy and all.
I honestly don't have an opinion, but the sheer amount of bullshit in the Italian court system in going back and forth like this isn't exactly inspiring.

I am not sure if it is double jeopardy; they overturned the verdict of an appeal to the original trial.

[Dyakovo]

So an Italian court has reinstated the guilty verdict on Amanda Knox.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25975395

Should the US agree to extradite Amanda Knox to Italy to serve the remainder of the sentence? She won't go voluntarily, so it is either extradition or the Italians can start following the US lead and use some special rendition .

Personally I think the US should agree to extradition.

If I had any reason to believe that she had a fair trial, I'd agree with extradition.

[Napkiraly]

I'm pretty sure there's a valid exception there, seeing as how it's double jeopardy and all.
I honestly don't have an opinion, but the sheer amount of bullshit in the Italian court system in going back and forth like this isn't exactly inspiring.

I am not sure if it is double jeopardy; they overturned the verdict of an appeal to the original trial.

No it was retrial iirc, but Italy doesn't absolutely prohibit double jeopardy.

[Benuty]

I am not sure if it is double jeopardy; they overturned the verdict of an appeal to the original trial.

No it was retrial iirc, but Italy doesn't absolutely prohibit double jeopardy.

"3 years later another trial is held because of some stupid oversight or manipulation",

[L Ron Cupboard]

No it was retrial iirc, but Italy doesn't absolutely prohibit double jeopardy.

Ah right. Doesn't it matter more how the US regards double jeopardy when it comes to extradition? My legal knowledge is rubbish.

[Napkiraly]

No it was retrial iirc, but Italy doesn't absolutely prohibit double jeopardy.

Ah right. Doesn't it matter more how the US regards double jeopardy when it comes to extradition? My legal knowledge is rubbish.

Nope. Extradition treaty only protects Americans from double jeopardy if it is something that has already been dealt with by the US legal system as well. She's SOL on that account.

[L Ron Cupboard]

SOL is statute of limitiations?

[Napkiraly]

SOL is statute of limitiations?

Shit outta luck.

[Eoghania]

SOL is statute of limitiations?

Shit Outta Luck.

[New Catalonia]

She should absolutely be extradited!

This is the woman who changed her story twice during trial: first saying she was not present when the murder was committed and then saying she heard another guy committing it. Amanda Knox has time and again shown herself to be at least culpable in the death of Meredith Kirchner. And let's not forget how she said, "I know I'm innocent and I'll return to Italy to prove it." then immediately turned around and said, "Actually, maybe not."

And as for this double jeopardy bullshit: that only stands if 1) it has passed through the US legal system (which it hasn't) and 2) in Italy, it is tried by jury (which it wasn't).

She's guilty, guilty, guilty. Everyone knows it. But because she's a blue-eyed American this is the greatest injustice ever known and she's hard done by and can't possibly be guilty! Have you seen the way the US media portrays this thing? It's like some bumbling Itais couldn't do shit so blamed a beautiful americano with slight links to make themselves look good. It is utter shit.

A British family is missing out on justice for their daughter, the competence of the very good Italian legal system is being accused of corruption and all because a rich white girl was caught up in a murder trial.

Send her down! Justice for Meredith!

[Mad Jack]

So an Italian court has reinstated the guilty verdict on Amanda Knox.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25975395

Should the US agree to extradite Amanda Knox to Italy to serve the remainder of the sentence? She won't go voluntarily, so it is either extradition or the Italians can start following the US lead and use some special rendition .

Personally I think the US should agree to extradition.

If I had any reason to believe that she had a fair trial, I'd agree with extradition.

What exactly makes you believe she didn't have a fair trial?

[Ethel mermania]

Ah right. Doesn't it matter more how the US regards double jeopardy when it comes to extradition? My legal knowledge is rubbish.

Nope. Extradition treaty only protects Americans from double jeopardy if it is something that has already been dealt with by the US legal system as well. She's SOL on that account.

i am not sure your interpertation of us law regarding extradition and double jeopardy is correct
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/eur ... x-retrial/

seems to imply it is not.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

She should absolutely be extradited!

This is the woman who changed her story twice during trial: first saying she was not present when the murder was committed and then saying she heard another guy committing it. Amanda Knox has time and again shown herself to be at least culpable in the death of Meredith Kirchner. And let's not forget how she said, "I know I'm innocent and I'll return to Italy to prove it." then immediately turned around and said, "Actually, maybe not."

And as for this double jeopardy bullshit: that only stands if 1) it has passed through the US legal system (which it hasn't) and 2) in Italy, it is tried by jury (which it wasn't).

She's guilty, guilty, guilty. Everyone knows it. But because she's a blue-eyed American this is the greatest injustice ever known and she's hard done by and can't possibly be guilty! Have you seen the way the US media portrays this thing? It's like some bumbling Itais couldn't do shit so blamed a beautiful americano with slight links to make themselves look good. It is utter shit.

A British family is missing out on justice for their daughter, the competence of the very good Italian legal system is being accused of corruption and all because a rich white girl was caught up in a murder trial.

Send her down! Justice for Meredith!

To be fair, I didn't know that about the DJ rule, although it's possible the US...might just not enforce it if it's that big a PR issue. It would certainly be interesting if they did hand her back.
...And I think you may have overextended yourself a little bit on claiming that the Italian legal system is of any especially good quality, even in this case. They've flipflopped about three times on this: first she's guilty, then she's not, then she is again. If they're so good, why didn't they just stick by it the first time? Why keep second-guessing?
I'm not saying they're necessarily wrong as a result, but again, it isn't exactly confidence-inspiring.

[New Catalonia]

A cursory glance at the United States - Italy extradition treaty suggests that Knox has to be extradited...

Hope she is.

I'm pretty sure there's a valid exception there, seeing as how it's double jeopardy and all.
I honestly don't have an opinion, but the sheer amount of bullshit in the Italian court system in going back and forth like this isn't exactly inspiring.

That's because the Italians don't use common law they use civil law. Civil law is based on a system of appeal exhaustion. If you're sentenced you can appeal before doing the time. Not like common law where you're sent down and appeal from prison.

[Napkiraly]

Nope. Extradition treaty only protects Americans from double jeopardy if it is something that has already been dealt with by the US legal system as well. She's SOL on that account.

i am not sure your interpertation of us law regarding extradition and double jeopardy is correct
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/eur ... x-retrial/

seems to imply it is not.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10607883/What-next-for-Amanda-Knox.html

Some lawyers and supporters of Ms Knox have argued that having been acquitted in 2011, she would be protected under the US Constitution from “double jeopardy” – being tried twice for the same charge.

Yet the US-Italy extradition treaty only protects Americans from extradition to face prosecution again in Italy for an offence that has already been dealt with by the US legal system. “This is not applicable in this situation,” said Professor Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.

You were saying?

[The Tiger Kingdom]

I'm pretty sure there's a valid exception there, seeing as how it's double jeopardy and all.
I honestly don't have an opinion, but the sheer amount of bullshit in the Italian court system in going back and forth like this isn't exactly inspiring.

That's because the Italians don't use common law they use civil law. Civil law is based on a system of appeal exhaustion. If you're sentenced you can appeal before doing the time. Not like common law where you're sent down and appeal from prison.

That doesn't explain why they changed their mind twice, though.

[New Catalonia]

She should absolutely be extradited!

This is the woman who changed her story twice during trial: first saying she was not present when the murder was committed and then saying she heard another guy committing it. Amanda Knox has time and again shown herself to be at least culpable in the death of Meredith Kirchner. And let's not forget how she said, "I know I'm innocent and I'll return to Italy to prove it." then immediately turned around and said, "Actually, maybe not."

And as for this double jeopardy bullshit: that only stands if 1) it has passed through the US legal system (which it hasn't) and 2) in Italy, it is tried by jury (which it wasn't).

She's guilty, guilty, guilty. Everyone knows it. But because she's a blue-eyed American this is the greatest injustice ever known and she's hard done by and can't possibly be guilty! Have you seen the way the US media portrays this thing? It's like some bumbling Itais couldn't do shit so blamed a beautiful americano with slight links to make themselves look good. It is utter shit.

A British family is missing out on justice for their daughter, the competence of the very good Italian legal system is being accused of corruption and all because a rich white girl was caught up in a murder trial.

Send her down! Justice for Meredith!

To be fair, I didn't know that about the DJ rule, although it's possible the US...might just not enforce it if it's that big a PR issue. It would certainly be interesting if they did hand her back.
...And I think you may have overextended yourself a little bit on claiming that the Italian legal system is of any especially good quality, even in this case. They've flipflopped about three times on this: first she's guilty, then she's not, then she is again. If they're so good, why didn't they just stick by it the first time? Why keep second-guessing?
I'm not saying they're necessarily wrong as a result, but again, it isn't exactly confidence-inspiring.

That's how the Italian legal system works: you can appeal and be retried. It's not flip flopping, its about being thorough and ensuring guilt before being imprisoned. Its the same legal system used in Germany. They "flip flop" too but its not an issue? Italians, like all other European mainland countries uses the civil law system where you're not guilty until you're guilty. None of this "you may be innocent, appeal from jail" of the British /US systems.

[Napkiraly]

She should absolutely be extradited!

This is the woman who changed her story twice during trial: first saying she was not present when the murder was committed and then saying she heard another guy committing it. Amanda Knox has time and again shown herself to be at least culpable in the death of Meredith Kirchner. And let's not forget how she said, "I know I'm innocent and I'll return to Italy to prove it." then immediately turned around and said, "Actually, maybe not."

And as for this double jeopardy bullshit: that only stands if 1) it has passed through the US legal system (which it hasn't) and 2) in Italy, it is tried by jury (which it wasn't).

She's guilty, guilty, guilty. Everyone knows it. But because she's a blue-eyed American this is the greatest injustice ever known and she's hard done by and can't possibly be guilty! Have you seen the way the US media portrays this thing? It's like some bumbling Itais couldn't do shit so blamed a beautiful americano with slight links to make themselves look good. It is utter shit.

A British family is missing out on justice for their daughter, the competence of the very good Italian legal system is being accused of corruption and all because a rich white girl was caught up in a murder trial.

Send her down! Justice for Meredith!

To be fair, I didn't know that about the DJ rule, although it's possible the US...might just not enforce it if it's that big a PR issue. It would certainly be interesting if they did hand her back.
...And I think you may have overextended yourself a little bit on claiming that the Italian legal system is of any especially good quality, even in this case. They've flipflopped about three times on this: first she's guilty, then she's not, then she is again. If they're so good, why didn't they just stick by it the first time? Why keep second-guessing?
I'm not saying they're necessarily wrong as a result, but again, it isn't exactly confidence-inspiring.

Let's not forget it wasn't only the Italian legal system that acted like a pancake during this fiasco - Ms. Knox herself changed her tune a few times.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

To be fair, I didn't know that about the DJ rule, although it's possible the US...might just not enforce it if it's that big a PR issue. It would certainly be interesting if they did hand her back.
...And I think you may have overextended yourself a little bit on claiming that the Italian legal system is of any especially good quality, even in this case. They've flipflopped about three times on this: first she's guilty, then she's not, then she is again. If they're so good, why didn't they just stick by it the first time? Why keep second-guessing?
I'm not saying they're necessarily wrong as a result, but again, it isn't exactly confidence-inspiring.

Let's not forget it wasn't only the Italian legal system that acted like a pancake during this fiasco - Ms. Knox herself changed her tune a few times.

Right.
I guess all this verdict switching over time just kinda got to me. It just doesn't look too good from my angle, but I guess that's normal...?

[New Catalonia]

That's because the Italians don't use common law they use civil law. Civil law is based on a system of appeal exhaustion. If you're sentenced you can appeal before doing the time. Not like common law where you're sent down and appeal from prison.

That doesn't explain why they changed their mind twice, though.

Yes it does. She was found guilty. Her legal team appealed. A separate appeal court ordered a retrial to ensure guilt. She was never found innocent, that's just how America reported it. The appeal court ruled something like she did it but her guilt couldn't be proven. That's not innocent, its guilt not proven. Subtle but legally significant.