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POW and War Crime Conference in Ceruleo (Closed)

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]
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Ceruleo
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POW and War Crime Conference in Ceruleo (Closed)

Postby Ceruleo » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:30 am

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Last year, there was a violent uprising against the Federal Republic of Ceruleo by communist rebels. Several nations came to the aid of the Cerulean government and we are thankful for their assistance. Unfortunately, some questions have been raised, and accusations made, by the citizens of Ceruleo with regard to the way in which some nations, most specifically the Free State of Libertarian Governance, conducted themselves during the war.

The stance of the government of the Federal Republic of Ceruleo is that the Libertarian Governance conducted itself within the rules of war and rules of engagement employed by the Cerulean Armed Forces. Since the communist rebels the Libertarian Governance fought were not uniformed soldiers, they were not entitled to Prisoner of War status by the Cerulean definition.

In order to prevent any future question about the status and definition of prisoners of war, the Cerulean Aid and Relief Enterprise invites any interested parties to meet in the city of Ft. Ceruleo for a conference. The currently proposed list of topics include:
Qualifications to be considered a prisoner of war
Required humane treatment of prisoners of war
Noncombatant status of medical personnel, clergy and civilians

If you would like to participate please fill out the following application.

Name of country:
Name of delegate:
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:
Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic:
Last edited by Ceruleo on Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Communism is standing in line for eight hours to get a moldy piece of bread.

Capitalism is working for eight hours, going to the store when you get off, buying a loaf of bread, going home and finding that it is moldy. Thinking for twenty minutes if it'll be okay if you just scrape off the mold, deciding that it won't. Then thinking for another twenty minutes if it's worth putting your shoes back on to go back to the store, deciding that it isn't and then just eating the bread anyway.
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Ceruleo
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Postby Ceruleo » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:32 am

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Name of country: Federal Republic of Ceruleo
Name of delegate: Jasper Newton
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:
POWs are given health care and are not subjected to hardship which permanently physically or emotionally harms them. To qualify as a POW, the combatant must be wearing a uniform of the military force for which they are fighting. They and their military must also respect the neutral nature of noncombatants such as medics and chaplains. Upon attaining the status of POW, the POW is expected to conduct himself under the Code of Cerulean Uniformed Law, with the exception that attempting to escape is considered attempted desertion during time of peace.

If the person has attacked noncombatants or is part of a military organization which has routinely attacked noncombatants there are no guidelines for humane treatment and have no rights protecting them from torture, execution or any other hardship. Combatants who have not attacked noncombatants are treated as foreign civilian criminals and arrested. If it is determined that they are part of an organization which has attacked noncombatants, their legal rights as a civilian criminal are rescinded.

Standard procedure for a POW
When a uniformed soldier who respects the rights of noncombatant is captured or surrenders they assume the designation of Prisoner of War (POW). The POW is required to give up all of their personal equipment to the capturing party (CP), excepting their clothing, footwear, and personal items (i.e. Wallets, Watches, and other items of a non-military nature) which are searched and returned to the POW. The POW is then taken to the rear as soon as possible where the POW will fill out three Capture Cards, each of which is to contain the POW's name, rank, serial number, blood type, unit, hometown, country of origin, next of kin, and space for a personal note to their family on the back. One Capture Card will be sent to the POW's nation of origin through a neutral third party, one will be retained by the Cerulean National Armed Forces Records Office, and the last one must be attached above the waist in plain view on the POW until the POW is processed by his internment camp.

The POW is then sent as soon as is militarily possible to Ceruleo, with priority being given to Cerulean casualties, POW casualties, and POWs respectively. Upon arriving in Ceruleo, the POW will be shipped via troop train or other similar transportation, under guard, to an available internment camp. Once processed, the POW will relinquish his personal items, uniform and footwear which will be cataloged and stored until repatriation when it will be returned to them. The POW undergoes a full physical examination upon which the POW is either issued his internment camp uniform or sent to the infirmary for medical treatment.

The POW will be assigned a barracks and a bunk where he will live. The barracks will include a common area where television and other entertainment will be provided. There is also e-mail access where e-mails can be written to family members and loved ones, though these will be monitored by censors to protect a strategic information from being e-mailed home. POWs may also voluntarily work on the base in either camp facilities, such as the laundry or kitchen, or in on-base factories, which produce items such as entertainment books, religious books, medical equipment, dog tag blanks, or POW uniforms. POWs will be paid 1/3 the averaged hourly standard wage for a Cerulean Army Recruit in Commissary Credits to be spent as the POW chooses. Basic nutrition and bedding is provided, but these are chosen to be as cheap as possible while still providing a healthy diet and spartan comfort.

Upon the cessation of hostilities with the POW's nation of origin, the POW will be repatriated as quickly as possible. As the POW is processed out of the internment camp, the POW will receive his uniform, footwear, personal items and any unspent commissary credits which will be converted into the currency of the POW's choice. The POW will then be transported to their country of origin as soon as possible.

Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic: Qualifications to be considered a prisoner of war, required humane treatment of prisoners of war and noncombatant status of medical personnel, clergy and civilians
Communism is standing in line for eight hours to get a moldy piece of bread.

Capitalism is working for eight hours, going to the store when you get off, buying a loaf of bread, going home and finding that it is moldy. Thinking for twenty minutes if it'll be okay if you just scrape off the mold, deciding that it won't. Then thinking for another twenty minutes if it's worth putting your shoes back on to go back to the store, deciding that it isn't and then just eating the bread anyway.
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Libertarian Governance
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Postby Libertarian Governance » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:32 am

OOC: lol. YAY! I have been looking for a decent rp.

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To: The Federal Republic of Ceruleo

We would like to attend your summit. While we are unaware of any violations of our POW policies we stand ready to investigate specific incidents that we are made aware of. Furthermore, where there is sufficient evidence of a crime we will prosecute. Our application is attached herewith.

Name of country: The Free Land of Libertarian Governance
Name of delegate: Susan Antov - Asst. Chief of Foreign Affairs
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:
For conflicts in LIbertarian Governance the following categories of combatants qualify for prisoner-of-war status on capture:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict
2. Members of militias not under the command of the armed forces, with the following traits:
* that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
* that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
* that of carrying arms openly;
* that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
4. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

Outside of Libertarian Governance, local law is in effect unless it is an area specifically occupied and administered by LG.

Treatment:
All prisoner-of-war shall be provided the following:
1. A diet equivalent to the average diet issued to LGDF forces in the area.
* prisoners shall not be forced to beg for subsistence;
2. Shall be provided with shelter.
* This shall include reasonable efforts to provide a minimum level of comfort;
* This shall include availability of medical and dental care;
3. Shall be required only to provide name, rank and serial number.
4. Shall not be physically or mentally abused or tortured.

Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic:

Sincerely,

Tom McWain
Chief of Foreign Affairs
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Fatatatutti
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Postby Fatatatutti » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:58 pm

Name of country: Fatatatutti

Name of delegate: Gen. Marie-Louise Castro-Stalina

Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war: We define "prisoner of war" as "any prisoner captured during a war." We consider lack of uniforms, etc. to be utterly irrelevant.

We treat prisoners of war the same as we treat our own soldiers - with the obvious exception that they are not allowed to come and go as they please.

-- Julie Wong-Fu, Minister of Defense

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Romandeos
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Postby Romandeos » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:31 pm

IC:

Name of country: Romandeos

Name of delegate: Lieutenant-General Dame Wilhelmina Lawana Niziol Eschborn, COS

Policies regarding the treatment of prisoners of war: Romandeosian default policy is humane treatment in confinement, excepting known war-criminals, and spies.
Last edited by Romandeos on Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Olwe
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Postby New Olwe » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:25 am

Name of country: New Olwe
Name of delegate: Minister of War Roland Wansor
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war: Depends on the type of war and/or what the prisoner is being held for. We believe that some people just don't deserve humane treatment, and during Holy Wars the entire nation that we're fighting forfeits any human rights in our eyes.
Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic: National sovereignty. We would vehemently oppose any outright bans on torture and the like, since under certain circumstances these things are regrettably necessary, and besides that it is not the place of any nation here to micro-manage any other nation.
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Postby Abanhfleft » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:03 am

Name of country: The Democratic Republic of Abanhfleft
Name of delegate: Seiji Stockton
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:
The Democratic Republic of Abanhfleft officially defines a prisoner of war as any individual captured in the battlefield that is known or discovered to be part of the enemy group. Treatment is fair, and the captured individual is duly returned to his home country after the end of the conflict unless he accepts offers to stay in Abanhfleft.

Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic: Terms of returning captured individuals
The Democratic Republic of Abanhfleft
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Cerulean Aid
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Postby Cerulean Aid » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:25 am

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The updated agenda is:
Qualifications to be considered a prisoner of war
Required humane treatment of prisoners of war
Noncombatant status of medical personnel, clergy and civilians
Nature of sovereignty regarding the guidelines of this agreement
Terms of returning captured individuals
Reciprocal nature of the agreement
Use of wide area weapons and bombing against civilian population centers

Current List of Participating Nations:
Federal Republic of Ceruleo
Free State of Libertarian Governance
People's Republic of Fatatatutti
Imperial Federated States of Romandeos
Feudal Socialist Magocracy of New Olwe
Democratic Republic of Abanhfleft

Signed,
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Kaitlyn Owens
Director of C.A.R.E.

OOC: I'm going to sleep now and when I wake up and I'm going to convene this conference. Until then, anyone who wants to may sign up, but after that it will be closed.

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Onekawa-Nukanor
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Postby Onekawa-Nukanor » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:45 am

Name of country: The Armed Republic of Onekawa-Nukanor
Name of delegate: Secetary of Defence Tama Onekawa
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:
During war all POW unless by expection, will be killed by a bullet to the back of the head or held in several holding facilities under unusual conditions,these captives would be treated humanely, this is to prevent the need for large amounts of men to guard them and part of tradition.

Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic: None
A NEW ZEALANDER

ALL BLACKS SUPPORTER


When refering to me ICly, please use the proper term Ngāti Onekawa-Nukanor, not Ngāti of Onekawa-Nukanor. Thank you.

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Jeniferia
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Postby Jeniferia » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:10 am

Name of country: The Queendom Of Jeniferia
Name of delegate: Centius Fox
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:All POW's Are tried by the Platton's who captured them's Officer if they are commited of Gross crimes Aganist Humanity they are executed on the spot if not there memories are wiped then sent off to work in our Navy our most powerful warship The Great Owl is mainly crewed by such POW's
Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic:Rights to executing the Pow if they have commited crimes aganist humanity and we have witness
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DeusII
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Postby DeusII » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:11 am

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The empire most gratefully accepts the invitation and will send a delegate out at once the conference. SWAI Winston Entlasi will arrive shortly with a few accompanying SWAI and ten armed Diplomatic Protection Police Officers. All members of the party arriving have no connections to the original creation of this article. Please read attached documents for information:

Name of country: The Greater Empire of DeusII
Name of delegate: SWAI Winston Entlasi
Current policy regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:

The general part of the policy, with some details omitted;

_______________
War Policy Act of 1942
Chapter 13, Article 7.

_______________


a) A prisoner of war is defined as any national of an enemy state during captured during a time of war or increased hostile tension by Imperial forces are deemed to be prisoners of war. Saboteurs and spies are separate and noted in Articles 8-9. Civilians are also noted separately in Article 10. The prisoners of war will be referred to as POWs in this article.

b) Under deliberate and conscious surrender, the POWs have the following actions and rights placed upon them, some may not come into effect until later:
- All items upon them, including clothing are confiscated and will be collected and retained by the officer in command. If the prisoners are transferred to a holding facility at a later date, the responsibility of the items will rest in the management of the facility.
- They may not be deliberately left to die through neglect.
- It is at the officer in command's discretion as to whether the POWs are to travel with the group until they can be sent elsewhere. If not other options are available, the POWs are to be shot.
- If in a holding facility they are to be treated as any other prisoner, with modifications and restrictions placed upon them by the facility management.

c) If forced into surrender or are captured unwilling, the POWs have the following actions and rights placed upon them, some may not come into effect until later:
- All items upon them, including clothing are confiscated and will be collected and retained by the officer in command. If the prisoners are transferred to a holding facility at a later date, the responsibility of the items will rest in the management of the facility.
- The officer in command may choose to give them the same rights as written in the War Policy Act of 1942 Chapter 13, Article 7b.
- If the officer in command does not wish them to be given the rights mentioned in the War Policy Act of 1942 Chapter 13, Article 7b they are to be shot.

d) If it is impractical for the POWs to be sent to holding facilities then they are to be shot.

e) There is to be no inquest as to the treatment of the POWs after the war unless requested by Imperial Command.

f) The names/identifying features of the POWs should be recorded by the officer in command in a Prisoner Report Sheet and be transferred to the holding facility with the prisoner, or in another scenario the War Ministry.

g) After the conflict, the decision as the future of the POWs lies with the War Ministry, dependant upon circumstances regarding the conflict.

h)If deemed necessary, suitable means can be used upon POWs to extract information.


Topics your nation would like to be added to the proposed list of topic: None, though some will undoubtedly arise whilst in the conference.
Last edited by DeusII on Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:04 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Romandeos
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Postby Romandeos » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:39 pm

IC:

I look forward to a rousing and informative discussion with my fellow delegates.

~ LTGEN Dame Wilhelmina L. N. Eschborn, COS
Last edited by Romandeos on Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you RP with me, you are choosing to acknowledge The Shift by default. No negotiations.


Southeastasia wrote:Romandeos is like an enormous dog: happy and friendly, but when angered, ruthlessly sadistic.


Yo’ur spalling ability and use of gamrmer is artcioous.

Facts and Figures of Life

The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the world.

Things are more like they are today than they ever were before.

Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for.

Friends may come and go but enemies accumulate.

I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

If you think there is good in everybody, you haven’t met everybody.

RIP Tanaara: 1/17/10.

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Cerulean Aid
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cerulean Aid » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:08 pm

Kaitlyn Owens waited outside of the conference room. In a minute she would be addressing the delegates of several nations. She had tried to get the Cerulean government to censure the Libertarian Governance since they killed her brother and desecrated his body on October 10th, 2009. The Cerulean government did not feel that a)one should reprimand your allies for helping you, and b)that young Hugh Owens was deserving of humane treatment because he was fighting for a “terrorist organization which routinely killed noncombatants” or so the letter framed in her office said. She knew she had to put it out of her mind, lest her hatred for the LG delegation derail this entire enterprise.

During the war against the communist, she had been in charge of C.A.R.E.’s efforts to help communist prisoners being held in Ceruleo. For the most part, captured communist insurgents were treated well until they were found guilty of this or that and executed. Communists captured wearing uniforms or at least some semblance of a uniform had been treated much better and after the war had been taken back to the People’s Republic of Cerulean Cooperation. She still remembered the picture of a Federal Cerulean soldier helping a Communist Cerulean soldier to the rear as though they were comrades or even friends. She had the picture enlarged and placed on the wall in the conference room. If she could not end war, Owens would at least try to make it a little more civilized.

“They’re ready ma’am,” said a young soldier in the dress uniform of the Foreign Affairs Bureau, where this meeting was taking place. He opened the door. She entered the room, though there were far fewer delegates in attendance than she had hoped. Sh saw surveyed they flag and was pleased that the LG delegation hadn’t backed out. She started her introduction.

“Hello and thank you all for participating. What I hope to accomplish is to create an agreement which we can all agree to. We should endeavor to create a comprehensive guideline for the treatment of enemy combatants that will let them retain their dignity in life, death and capture. If you would, please refer to the packets in front of you with the proposed topics of this meeting. Included are all of the Cerulean Aid and Relief Enterprise’s proposals on the proposed topics. As we agree on each topic through discussion and compromise, we can move down the list until we have a document that all of our nations can endorse.

First on the list is the definition of a Prisoner of War. I’ll allow you a moment to read CARE’s position and then we’ll open the floor up to debate.

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Cerulean Aid
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Postby Cerulean Aid » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:08 pm

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List of Topics to be addressed:
Qualifications to be considered a prisoner of war
Required humane treatment of prisoners of war
Noncombatant status of medical personnel, clergy and civilians
Nature of sovereignty regarding the guidelines of this agreement
Terms of returning captured individuals
Reciprocal nature of the agreement
Use of wide area weapons and bombing against civilian population centers
Rights to execute criminals against humanity

List of Participating Nations:
Federal Republic of Ceruleo
Free State of Libertarian Governance
People's Republic of Fatatatutti
Imperial Federated States of Romandeos
Feudal Socialist Magocracy of New Olwe
Democratic Republic of Abanhfleft
Armed Republic of Onekawa-Nukanor
Queendom Of Jeniferia
Greater Empire of DeusII

Positions of CARE

Qualifications to be considered a Prisoner of War

We believe that all persons captured by the capturing party(CP), regardless of national allegiance or personal philosophy, should never fear for their safety. Those POW should include all persons taken into custody by the CP for acts against the CP. Lack of a uniform, lack of identifying markers of status, or concealing arms are immaterial to their status as a prisoner of war.


Required humane treatment of prisoners of war

POWs should be taken into the care of the CP and should be guaranteed basic rights. POWs are immune to all prosecution for acts against the CP. Any acts of escape may not be punished in any way. POWs must be given a balanced 2000-calorie diet, 64 ounces of water, safe shelter and protection from the elements and be allowed to spend at least 2 hours outside every day. No POW may be interrogated, harmed, threatened harm, or in any other way mistreated or made to suffer hardship.


Noncombatant status of medical personnel, clergy and civilians

Military personnel not openly carrying weapons are to be considered noncombatants and attacking them would be considered a crime against humanity, subject to censure or trial by the international community.


Nature of sovereignty regarding the guidelines of this agreement

All nations are bound by this agreement and any deviation may be cause for military, political and legal action against the parties that violate this agreement. Legal action includes the forcible apprehension of heads of state, government officials and individual persons that violate this agreement for crimes against humanity.


Terms of returning captured individuals

All POW must be returned to their home nation within 96 hours of the cessation of hostilities unless otherwise agreed to by the warring nations. Failure to meet this deadline puts the violating country in breach of this agreement and previously mentioned sanctions may be employed.


Reciprocal nature of the agreement

All parties of this agreement must maintain these guidelines regardless of whether other nations do not follow these guidelines. Reciprocal treatment of your own POWs is not required. The same is true of the following, regarding the protection of civilians, where if another country bombs your cities, you do not have the right to bomb theirs and injure innocent civilians.


Use of wide area weapons and bombing against civilian population centers

Attacks and destruction that put civilians in harm’s way are illegal. There are no military targets that are worth even one innocent person’s life. Any attack where civilians may me injured or use of civilians to make a military target unattackable are illegal and are subject to the previously mentioned sanctions.


Rights to execute criminals against humanity

We believe that no person should be executed for acts committed in a combat or wartime environment. The hardship and chaos of war reduces all people to their worst and as such they should not be punished with death. Crimes against humanity should be punished by long prison terms after the criminal has been found guilty by a tribunal of signatories of this agreement.

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Ceruleo
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Postby Ceruleo » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:58 pm

Jasper Newton read the proposed positions prepared by CARE. Several times, the delegate from the Libertarian Governance, who was sitting next to Newton, heard Newton sigh heavily or mutter "hippy nonsense" under his breath. When he finished reading the document, Newton sat back in his chair until it appeared everyone had finished reading CARE's proposal.

Newton leaned forward, motioning to the packet, he began, "This document is not made for this world. This thing is the document that should exist in a perfect world, but no one is going to agree to this. But back to the topic we are currently dealing with, POWs. The CARE position wants every captured person to be a prisoner of war, but we do not believe that a person should be able to come as a soldier and then melt away into the populace. You must either be a soldier or not be a soldier. CARE has laid out protections for both civilians and combatants and a person should not attempt to gain the protection of both. Trying to get the protection of both should entitled you to the protection of neither.

"Not only does melting away into the local population give a un-uniformed combatant a tactical advantage, but it also puts the population in danger when our soldiers go looking for that sneaky bastard likes trying to look like everyone else. To qualify for prisoner of war status a person must always be identifiable as a soldier.

"Also, I understand that New Olwe mentioned that some people do not deserve POW status and I'd be interested to know what they mean."
Last edited by Ceruleo on Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Communism is standing in line for eight hours to get a moldy piece of bread.

Capitalism is working for eight hours, going to the store when you get off, buying a loaf of bread, going home and finding that it is moldy. Thinking for twenty minutes if it'll be okay if you just scrape off the mold, deciding that it won't. Then thinking for another twenty minutes if it's worth putting your shoes back on to go back to the store, deciding that it isn't and then just eating the bread anyway.
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Libertarian Governance
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Postby Libertarian Governance » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:28 pm

Susan Antov wore a purple dress with a conservative cut and a slightly ostentatious diamond necklace. Susan read the CARE proposals with a bit of apprehension. Many of the proposals while well meaning seemed to have been developed by people lacking any knowledge of actual warfare. Still, Susan thought that the very fact some LG military units, particularly those run by the intelligence community or heavily involved with it, fell outside existing rules of warfare was regrettable.

Susan listened and looked over the proposals. Noted were the provisions relating to qualifications to be considered a Prisoner of War, required humane treatment of prisoners of war, and rights to execute criminals against humanity. These were areas of serious disagreement and under no circumstances could she sign on to such a proposal.

She smiled to the Cerulean representative. Then pulling her Lucid PDA from her purse begin to type a message to Chief of Foreign Affairs Thomas McWain.
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Fatatatutti
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Fatatatutti » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:41 pm

General Castro-Stalina tapped a pencil annoyingly on the table until she was sure she had everybody's attention.

Except for the jungle-camo fatigues, she would have looked out of place. At a meter and a half tall and fifty kilos and with her blonde hair in pigtails, she would have looked more like a schoolgirl than a soldier. As if she wasn't planning on staying long, she was still wearing her red beret with the badge of the 69th Lesbian Light Infantry regiment.

She stopped tapping. "With a few minor reservations," she said, "I think we can agree to the proposal."

She paused. "As for the discussion so far, I'd say that an enemy combatant who takes off his uniform and tries to 'melt away into the local population', as our colleague puts it, puts himself at a significant disadvantage. If he is considered to be a local civilian, he is liable to be put on trial as a common criminal.

"In my opinion, what should matter is what the prisoner did, not what he chose to wear to the party. If he attacked a military convoy, then that is a military act, he is a soldier and he should be treated as such. If he robbed a convenience store or raped a nun, then he should be treated as a criminal.

"In Fatatatutti, wearing a uniform doesn't permit you to commit crimes against civilians. A criminal is treated as a criminal, in uniform or not. By the same logic, a soldier should be treated like a soldier if he acts like a soldier."

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Ceruleo
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 127
Founded: Nov 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ceruleo » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:09 pm

"With regard to the proposal there is not one part of it that my nation can agree to. I feel it should be a starting point. But in reference to my esteemed colleague from Fatatatutti comments, I disagree.

"If a person dressed as a civilian walks up to a Cerulean checkpoint, our soldiers are not going to engage that person. If they surprise and kill the soldiers at that checkpoint and run into a foreign population center they are immune from counter attack. They can continue these types of operations against us one minute and be doing our laundry or driving a cab another minute. Ceruleo does not make a habit of scooping up civilians and prosecuting them solely for being at war with us.

"Another thing, a soldier killing another soldier is not a crime. It is an, admittedly regrettable, extension of foreign policy. A soldier killing a civilian or a civilian killing a soldier is murder. Therefore, if an enemy troop doesn't dress for the party, as you put it, they should not benefit from a soldier's immunity to prosecution for carrying out his duty.

"I understand your position that attacking a military target is, by definition, a military act, allowing the person who committed that act the title of soldier, but I ask you madam, how would you respond to such an act by a non-uniformed person militarily. If the people attack a convoy, or some such, are wearing civilian attire, does that make all civilians fair game?

"By this same token, we don't believe our special forces expect or deserve POW status by our own guidelines. They don't wear identifying insignia or badges, they don't carry any identifying documents or dog tags, and they don't wear any kind of uniform equipment. It's an added risk they take in the favor of secrecy. If an insurgent, or any other person, wants to take up arms against another nation, there is an honorable way to do it which is by putting on a uniform. If they don't, they gain tactical surprise and the ability to operate clandestinely, but they should not get the protections of a soldier."
Communism is standing in line for eight hours to get a moldy piece of bread.

Capitalism is working for eight hours, going to the store when you get off, buying a loaf of bread, going home and finding that it is moldy. Thinking for twenty minutes if it'll be okay if you just scrape off the mold, deciding that it won't. Then thinking for another twenty minutes if it's worth putting your shoes back on to go back to the store, deciding that it isn't and then just eating the bread anyway.
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Romandeos
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 433
Founded: Jan 13, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Romandeos » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:24 pm

IC:

General Eschborn was a typical southeastern Romandeosian in regards to physical appearance. Tall, probably a bit less than six feet, she had a hawkish, sharp featured face, black hair, which she kept above the shoulders, and gray-green eyes. To make sure others present knew in what capacity she represented her homeland, she had arrived wearing standard IFS Army Battle Dress, the digitized woodland area camouflage which Romandeosian soldiers wore on a default basis. Upon her head was perched the crimson beret of the Paragons, her nation's elite light infantry force.

"In a perfect world there would be no war, and thus no need to discuss these matters," she said calmly, with a noticeable accent. "We do not, however, live in a perfect world, as my learned colleagues present here no doubt already know. I can agree with some of what General Castro-Stalina has said. If soldiers kill uniformed enemy soldiers, that is not crime as men and women in military service willingly and knowingly take on such risks when they join up. If, however, soldiers engage in the killing of unarmed, innocent civilians, that is not in any way a military action. It is murder, and criminal activity, and it should be treated as such. If the civilian was functioning in some military or militarily supportive capacity, and killing them was necessary in a military sense, that is a different matter, at least inasmuch as Romandeos is concerned."
Last edited by Romandeos on Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you RP with me, you are choosing to acknowledge The Shift by default. No negotiations.


Southeastasia wrote:Romandeos is like an enormous dog: happy and friendly, but when angered, ruthlessly sadistic.


Yo’ur spalling ability and use of gamrmer is artcioous.

Facts and Figures of Life

The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the world.

Things are more like they are today than they ever were before.

Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for.

Friends may come and go but enemies accumulate.

I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

If you think there is good in everybody, you haven’t met everybody.

RIP Tanaara: 1/17/10.

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Fatatatutti
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10956
Founded: Jun 02, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Fatatatutti » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:31 pm

"What's a checkpoint for if you don't check everybody who goes through it? Do you expect enemy soldiers to oblige you by reporting to your checkpoints?

"If one of our checkpoints or convoys is attacked, we shoot back. We don't bother to check what the attackers are wearing. If we happen to capture some of them, why should we decide then, when they're no longer a threat, that they're not real soldiers?

"Frankly, I don't know what you mean by 'the protections of a soldier'. Our soldiers get less protection than civilians. That's what we have soldiers for, to protect civilians. If a civilan steps up to protect other civilians, with or without a uniform, he is a soldier."

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Libertarian Governance
Senator
 
Posts: 4710
Founded: Oct 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Libertarian Governance » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:31 pm

"While we agree that there are advances needed by many nations towards a more ethical treatment of POWs, we have a number of reservations with this bill as well." She looks around the room for a moment.

"Our first reservation would be in regards to the qualifications to be considered a Prisoner of War. Criminal acts should under no circumstances be supported by declaring the criminal a POW. That is exactly what this proposal does."

She looks down at the paperwork. "This would give terrorist and mass murders the protection of POW status. Does that make sense to anyone here? Quote We believe that all persons captured by the capturing party(CP), regardless of national allegiance or personal philosophy, should never fear for their safety. unquote. This doesn't even define the necessity of an armed conflict existing but instead would do away with an entire body of each countries criminal law. Should spies not face trial, assassins not face trial?"

"Second, there is the provision that quote POWs are immune to all prosecution for acts against the CP unquote. Well, without a decent definition of POW in the first part this would extend to common criminals, terrorist, assassins and spies.However, we would not oppose these provisions if POW was properly defined."

She glances at the paper again "lastly, there is this rights to execute criminals against humanity or actually prohibition from executing war criminals. Lets say a fascist dictator systematically murders 6 million people are you really telling me that that dictator shouldn't be executed. Please! Civilization means that even in warfare we have some standards.Consequently I have to say that we would urge that execution of war criminals and those committing genocide would have to remain an option."
Stand up, it's time to rise. It's time for revenge, opposition must die
Chaos, violence, revolution now! - GG Allin



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Romandeos
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 433
Founded: Jan 13, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Romandeos » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:38 pm

IC:

"Romandeosian policy on uniforms is somewhat...vague," Eschborn said. "We generally regard fighting in plain clothes as cowardly. Must be some of that pre-Atrean bullshit about honorable warrior cultures and such. If a person actively takes up arms against my soldiers, in my eyes, he becomes a soldier, and is treated as such if captured. That means he will be given medical treatment, food, water, decently clothed...and that he will be confined in a stockade until the war's end, or until he is exchanged before that time.

"Regarding spies and non-uniformed assassins, or assassins of any kind, they are traditionally interrogated and shot. Terrorists and war-criminals are also subject to execution, and Romandeos will not likely concede to surrendering this right."

Eschborn pulled a cigarello case from her fatigues.

"Does anybody mind if I smoke?"
Last edited by Romandeos on Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you RP with me, you are choosing to acknowledge The Shift by default. No negotiations.


Southeastasia wrote:Romandeos is like an enormous dog: happy and friendly, but when angered, ruthlessly sadistic.


Yo’ur spalling ability and use of gamrmer is artcioous.

Facts and Figures of Life

The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the world.

Things are more like they are today than they ever were before.

Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for.

Friends may come and go but enemies accumulate.

I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

If you think there is good in everybody, you haven’t met everybody.

RIP Tanaara: 1/17/10.

User avatar
Ceruleo
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 127
Founded: Nov 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ceruleo » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:40 pm

"I think we can agree that uniformed soldiers who are captured are prisoners of war.

"My nation does considers civilians operating in a support role to potentially be military targets, but pushing paper and filing requisitions is not a criminal act in any nation I've ever heard of so those people would not be subject to capture or imprisonment of any kind, besides any action against them seems as though it would fall under the purview of intelligence forces.

"The question is what is the status of civilians who take up arms against an invading or occupying force? I note an incident where during the Cerulean conflict with Cerulean communists a platoon of our regular army launched a surprise attack against a village suspected of harboring communist insurgents. As we cleared the village, we found a dozen or so people, in as many homes, sleeping. Next to them, or at least in the building, were assault rifles were they had tied a red armband around them. These red armbands were used by civilian militias, on the battle field, to show themselves as lawful combatants and as such these captured people were considered prisoners of war. Also, several people were captured while they were not on duty, at a bar or brothel or some such place soldiers frequent, and when they were detained, they identified themselves as militia and were treated as prisoners of war.

"All we are asking for is a very modest showing that a person is a combatant on the battle field and a required admission of their status as a combatant if questioned. The modest showing doesn't need to be a government issued uniform, complete with kevlar helmet and ceramic plates. The admission can be withheld in a gambit to escape captivity, but doing so removes prisoner of war status if the person is arrested. This way, soldiers will not have to be as wary of the local population and militarily necessary retribution will not fall upon the shoulders of innocent civilians."
Communism is standing in line for eight hours to get a moldy piece of bread.

Capitalism is working for eight hours, going to the store when you get off, buying a loaf of bread, going home and finding that it is moldy. Thinking for twenty minutes if it'll be okay if you just scrape off the mold, deciding that it won't. Then thinking for another twenty minutes if it's worth putting your shoes back on to go back to the store, deciding that it isn't and then just eating the bread anyway.
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User avatar
Ceruleo
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 127
Founded: Nov 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ceruleo » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:43 pm

Noticing that Eschborn was still holding the cigarello unlit, Newton offered her a light and lit himself a Fortuitous Strike non-filtered cigarette. Upon seeing this, one of the Cerulean Foreign Affairs Bureau guard at the door left the room and returned with ash trays.
Communism is standing in line for eight hours to get a moldy piece of bread.

Capitalism is working for eight hours, going to the store when you get off, buying a loaf of bread, going home and finding that it is moldy. Thinking for twenty minutes if it'll be okay if you just scrape off the mold, deciding that it won't. Then thinking for another twenty minutes if it's worth putting your shoes back on to go back to the store, deciding that it isn't and then just eating the bread anyway.
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Embassy

User avatar
Fatatatutti
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10956
Founded: Jun 02, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Fatatatutti » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:46 pm

General Castro-Stalina sat up straight in her chair, making herself as tall as possible with her feet barely touching the floor. "Let me make myself clear,' she said. "Fatatatutti already meets the terms of this proposal. In some ways, we exceed them. Our position is not going to change.

"I'm not going to waste my time arguing all of your rationalizations for mistreating prisoners. I'm not interested in signing a watered-down agreement.

"If you just want justification for continuing what you're already doing, you don't need to be here. More importantly, I don't need to be here." She wished she had some papers to shuffle as a dramatic gesture but the one-page proposal didn't seem to be enough.

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