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[PASSED] Commend Abacathea

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SkyDip
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[PASSED] Commend Abacathea

Postby SkyDip » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:41 pm

Image Commend Abacathea

Category: Commendation | Nominee: Abacathea | Proposed By: SkyDip

Description: The Security Council,

RECOGNIZING the monumental climb that Abacathea has made onto the national stage in such a relatively short existence,

IMPRESSED by the rapid escalation of Abacathea into world-wide prominence, primarily through legislative writing in both the General Assembly and Security Council, wherein Abacathea produced, and subsequently had ratified by the World Assembly membership, a total of 10 combined resolutions in 2013,

PRAISING Abacathea for producing multiple, excellent resolutions in the Security Council that have garnered an extremely high cumulative passage rate, highlighting Abacathea's fine authorship and attention to detail,

ENUMERATING some highlights from Abacathea's authorship, including:
  • GA#257 - Reducing Automobile Emissions, which instituted a rigorous standard by which automobile emissions are regulated and kept in check by the International Automobile Emissions Commission
  • SC#120 - Commend Mousebumples, a Commendation that many felt long overdue due to Mousebumples' authoring achievements, particularly in the General Assembly, and many contributions to the technical sector
  • SC#125 - Commend The Bruce, a resolution that recognized the founder of the one of the oldest and most prestigious regions in the world
APPLAUDING Abacathea's Operation Sierra Charlie, a project to seek out and recognize deserving nations and regions via Security Council legislation, a truly laudable achievement in what is a very self-serving World Assembly,

ADMIRING that Operation Sierra Charlie has produced four current resolutions, with more candidates and proposals planned for the future, and the intentions behind such an undertaking,

NOTING that Abacathea has also contributed many resolutions to the General Assembly, making this nation an all-around proficient and world-affecting nation,

FURTHER NOTING that Abacathea performs reviews and evaluations of World Assembly proposals as Minister of World Assembly Affairs in The North Pacific,

DESCRIBING Abacathea as a pristine model of World Assembly membership, both in constant attention to upcoming and at-vote proposals, assistance and insight to new authors who endeavor to pen resolutions, and remaining active in drafting and writing proposals,

ASSURED that Abacathea promotes and strives for the mottos of both the General Assembly and Security Council in spreading interregional peace and improving the world,

APPRECIATIVE of Abacathea's contribution to multiple regions in the world by way of legislation and World Assembly knowledge,

DECLARING Abacathea as a worthy nominee, taking into account World Assembly membership, authorship, and mentoring, and as a genuinely helpful nation,

HEREBY COMMENDS Abacathea


Thoughts, criticisms, suggestions welcomed. I may or may not take them into consideration.
Last edited by Crazy girl on Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:46 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:47 pm

I can help but think this is circular. A commendation for a few months of commendation writing? :/

Approval rating is also a terrible test for the quality of a resolution. Some of the best resolutions in the WA are the ones with the narrowest margins. Lots of divisive resolutions are well written. Most of the top performing resolutions are just really fluffy.

Abacathea's going to achieve a lot, I'm sure and I would recommend waiting for him to make more accomplishments before pushing this commendation out early.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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SkyDip
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Postby SkyDip » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:49 pm

Unibot III wrote:I can help but think this is circular. A commendation for a few months of commendation writing? :/

See: GR, SkyDip, Mousebumples, and a plethora of other candidates who have had authorship as their primary claim to fame.
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:53 pm

SkyDip wrote:
Unibot III wrote:I can help but think this is circular. A commendation for a few months of commendation writing? :/

See: GR, SkyDip, Mousebumples, and a plethora of other candidates who have had authorship as their primary claim to fame.


They all had something else to back their resolution with - and in GR and Mousebumples's case, we're talking about a huge career in the WA/UN. Abacathea is not up to the level of contributions as G-R or Mousebumples. Both of those two were in the WA for a long time and very very productive as authors. G-R wrote like the main body of liberal literature in the WA alongside SP and me. Mousebumples was the main advocate for "moderate" NatSov.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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SkyDip
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Postby SkyDip » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:58 pm

Unibot III wrote:
SkyDip wrote:See: GR, SkyDip, Mousebumples, and a plethora of other candidates who have had authorship as their primary claim to fame.


They all had something else to back their resolution with - and in GR and Mousebumples's case, we're talking about a huge career in the WA/UN. Abacathea is not up to the level of contributions as G-R or Mousebumples. Both of those two were in the WA for a long time and very very productive as authors. G-R wrote like the main body of liberal literature in the WA alongside SP and me. Mousebumples was the main advocate for "moderate" NatSov.

You wouldn't call ten resolutions (eight if you discount those repealed) in under a year and half productive?
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:00 pm

SkyDip wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
They all had something else to back their resolution with - and in GR and Mousebumples's case, we're talking about a huge career in the WA/UN. Abacathea is not up to the level of contributions as G-R or Mousebumples. Both of those two were in the WA for a long time and very very productive as authors. G-R wrote like the main body of liberal literature in the WA alongside SP and me. Mousebumples was the main advocate for "moderate" NatSov.

You wouldn't call ten resolutions (eight if you discount those repealed) in under a year and half productive?


Eh, that's not bad. I did better. ;)

Sounds like he's on track for a commendation, but he needs some time to mature as an author, in my opinion. I also think he's on his way to doing even bigger things elsewhere. Its also not just about quantity -- Mousebumbles had only pursued something like ten resolutions too, but that was over the course of a very prolific, contributive career in the WA and the UN.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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SkyDip
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Postby SkyDip » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:03 pm

Unibot III wrote:
SkyDip wrote:You wouldn't call ten resolutions (eight if you discount those repealed) in under a year and half productive?


Eh, that's not bad. I did better. ;)

Sounds like he's on track for a commendation, but he needs some time to mature as an author, in my opinion. I also think he's on his way to doing even bigger things elsewhere.

Then call it premature, not unwarranted or lack on material, because it certainly isn't either of latter. I'm giving the nominee the benefit of the doubt on this one - I too imagine that Abacathea will produce some excellent things down the line. Doesn't mean we have to wait for those to surface. I'll tally you down as an "AGAINST."

*scribbles on notepad*
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:56 pm

I never really get the point of you drafting here except to please Mousebumples. You don't take anything into consideration except like, grammar advice, anyways. Oftentimes it is the premise of your resolution that is flawed.

There's a very good reason to not propose premature commendations: it blows the chances of the nominee being commended in the future if this one fails for being premature. But, of course, that's an externality to you: you're not Abacathea.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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SkyDip
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Postby SkyDip » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:10 pm

Unibot III wrote:I never really get the point of you drafting here except to please Mousebumples. You don't take anything into consideration except like, grammar advice, anyways. Oftentimes it is the premise of your resolution that is flawed.

There's a very good reason to not propose premature commendations: it blows the chances of the nominee being commended in the future if this one fails for being premature. But, of course, that's an externality to you: you're not Abacathea.

Oh please. I was writing and drafting long before I met Mouse. I often take advice and suggestions into consideration (see Eist, Chester, Abacathea, etc. on a regular basis). I just more-than-often disregard you and Mahaj specifically because you often disagree with my "premise" and Mahaj just babbles like an infant without any helpful points. I don't know what positives you want me to take from you constantly chattering "No no no" every time I post something.

And as you say with my repeal of Commend TQOTD, multiple attempts are nearly inconsequential if you put enough space in-between submissions.
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

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Eist
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Postby Eist » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:21 pm

SkyDip wrote:Oh please. I was writing and drafting long before I met Mouse. I often take advice and suggestions into consideration (see Eist...


It's true, he does.

This is a lot of text for someone that dominates only one portion of the NS world. If you really need to get close to the character limit, I'd rather you list the resolutions he's authored. Unibot's right, though, approval rating means nothing. It's not controversial IMO to state that Abacathea knows how to choose targets well.
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Port blood
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Postby Port blood » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:30 am

DETAILING that Abacathea has produced multiple, excellent resolutions in the Security Council that have garnered an average "FOR" rate just shy of 78% and that, discounting Abacathea's first Security Council resolution, the last five resolutions Abacathea has authored have been ratified by the World Assembly membership have a "FOR" rate of 82%,



I'm not sure if this is a good/correct clause,seeing as it might change to higher or lower numbers
maybe change it to something like "highly rated resolutions"

Other then that i don't see much problems with this
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Postby Venico » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:44 am

I love Abacathea and I know he'll definitely be deserving of a commendation in the future. However I'm going to say the same thing that I've said about condemns and commends on early upstart people. Hold out a bit. Wait until your can really make your mark and add to your list of accomplishments. If this is how Aba will be recorded in the SC, I would prefer to wait and strengthen this.
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Cormac A Stark
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Postby Cormac A Stark » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:05 am

I'm going to disagree here. Regardless of how long Aba has been playing, he's had significant achievements -- he's successfully authored more WA resolutions than most other authors, and he has brought life back to the Security Council when nothing much was happening. If a player already has significant achievements I don't see any reason to wait for them to accumulate more, and when exactly is the cut-off for that? It's completely arbitrary.

Besides, Unibot is probably just holding out hope of recruiting Abacathea to the UDL and wants to see that included in an eventual Commendation. :P

If Abacathea goes on to do more in the WA, or if he achieves great things in other areas of the game, there's nothing preventing a second Commendation in the future. I suspect some of the people already commended by the Security Council will be commended later for additional achievements given that several of them are still quite active in the game.

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Postby Ramaeus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:28 am

It might help if you add that Aba wrote the majority of his resolutions within a year.
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SkyDip
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Postby SkyDip » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:57 am

I've added some details from a few of Abacathea's passed work.

I think the high approval rating is something that nations not regularly involved in the WA might look at and say - "Wow, this nation writes so well that their stuff is voted for by almost everyone!" Sort of the playing to the uninformed, but the uninformed count for a lot of votes. *shrug*

Port blood wrote:I'm not sure if this is a good/correct clause,seeing as it might change to higher or lower numbers
maybe change it to something like "highly rated resolutions"

I mean, yeah, obviously those numbers change should (and I highly anticipate this will happen) Abacathea pass more resolutions. Nothing wrong with that though, IMHO.

I...agree... ...almost completely? Weird. :p

Ramaeus wrote:It might help if you add that Aba wrote the majority of his resolutions within a year.

In fact, all of them were written in 2013. That little nugget has been added - thank you.


OP updated with some suggestions from above as well as minor grammar and spelling issues.
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Postby Port blood » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:10 am

I mean, yeah, obviously those numbers change should (and I highly anticipate this will happen) Abacathea pass more resolutions. Nothing wrong with that though, IMHO.


I thought it was against SC convention(but not rules) to include things that are subject to change,if I'm wrong about this please correct me
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Postby SkyDip » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:14 am

Port blood wrote:
I mean, yeah, obviously those numbers change should (and I highly anticipate this will happen) Abacathea pass more resolutions. Nothing wrong with that though, IMHO.


I thought it was against SC convention(but not rules) to include things that are subject to change,if I'm wrong about this please correct me

Eh....I don't know if I would call it convention, but I'm starting to come around to your point. How about this rewording?

PRAISING Abacathea for producing multiple, excellent resolutions in the Security Council that have garnered an extremely high cumulative passage rate, highlighting Abacathea's fine authorship and attention to detail,


Removes the specifics, but keeps the general premise.
Last edited by SkyDip on Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

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Postby Eist » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:20 pm

My point, SkyDip, was that Abacathea is not yet an exceptionally good writer, his success comes from choosing good targets (and presumably good advertising). His best work by far, IMO, is Commend Bears Armed, but your commendation, as well as Mouse's, the condemnation of Gest are not on the same level. There are other less prolific authors that achieve lower for/against ratios that are better writers than the average Abacathea proposal. As harsh as this may seem, I reiterate that I think that the Bears Armed resolution is truly one of the best resolutions out there. I'm not sure how I would vote on this if it came to vote. Either way, I hope you put more work in to polishing this up.
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Postby SkyDip » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:43 pm

Eist wrote:My point, SkyDip, was that Abacathea is not yet an exceptionally good writer, his success comes from choosing good targets (and presumably good advertising). His best work by far, IMO, is Commend Bears Armed, but your commendation, as well as Mouse's, the condemnation of Gest are not on the same level. There are other less prolific authors that achieve lower for/against ratios that are better writers than the average Abacathea proposal. As harsh as this may seem, I reiterate that I think that the Bears Armed resolution is truly one of the best resolutions out there. I'm not sure how I would vote on this if it came to vote. Either way, I hope you put more work in to polishing this up.

I was going to say something snarky about how you can't pick your nominees, but then...yeah.

I'll think on it, though I believe the current wording sufficiently works.
Last edited by SkyDip on Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

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Postby Chester Pearson » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:18 pm

As an ally of Aba, I would ask you to please hold out on this. Aba has a great career in front of him.... Let's let bum put up a few more, and make this thing a lock.... It's close, just not quite there yet.
Last edited by Chester Pearson on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Port blood » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:23 pm

SkyDip wrote:
Port blood wrote:
I thought it was against SC convention(but not rules) to include things that are subject to change,if I'm wrong about this please correct me

Eh....I don't know if I would call it convention, but I'm starting to come around to your point. How about this rewording?

PRAISING Abacathea for producing multiple, excellent resolutions in the Security Council that have garnered an extremely high cumulative passage rate, highlighting Abacathea's fine authorship and attention to detail,


Removes the specifics, but keeps the general premise.



Exactly,this wording is actually more praise then your previous statement( "and attention to detail" is a great addition),praise the deed,not the numbers
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SkyDip
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Postby SkyDip » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:21 pm

Chester Pearson wrote:As an ally of Aba, I would ask you to please hold out on this. Aba has a great career in front of him.... Let's let bum put up a few more, and make this thing a lock.... It's close, just not quite there yet.

To this point and those of Uni...how many things does a nation have to do in a year before they are "there?"
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mousebumples » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:12 pm

I mentioned this to Elias in his Euro draft, but I'll reiterate it here. I don't know that writing legislation alone is worth of commendation. I believe my commendation also included references to the various stickies/resource posts I had written in the GA/Tech forums, among other things. Aba has just started his trek in NS, and - like others - I think he will be commendable ... I just don't know that he's there yet.

For example, he's just recently started in a position in TNP, with regards to WA affairs, which I think will be something to highlight, going forward. However, a longer track record in that position - and perhaps in others, if he spreads his wings farther - will only serve to increase the level of merit of such a commendation.

I'll echo Eist, as well, and say that I've definitely noticed a decided improvement in his proposal writing, overall, as of late. I think the Commend of BA is his best SC work (as much as I love my own commendation <3), and I think that his Right to Emigration up in the GA right now is a vast improvement on some of his earlier GA proposals. However, I think he still has room to grow as an author, and I look forward to seeing him improve in the future.

As such, I'd rather wait on this until he has achieved more and made his mark on more than what he has thus far. So, put me down as a "not now, but most likely later" vote, if you'd like.

(For the record, similar comments were made by me and others in this thread from November. I don't feel things have changed enough in the past 6 weeks to merit a change of my assessment on such a commendation.)
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Kiwitaicho
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Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiwitaicho » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:08 pm

I first want to start by saying that I love Aba. He's a wonderful, helpful, intelligent and kind individual! On a personal level I am so glad he has joined the TNP community and is such an asset to the game in general. However, I have to agree with the many concerns raised by the likes of Unibot and Mouse. (Me agreeing with Unibot alone should be raising alarm bells! :P No offence intended their either Unibot.)

Is Aba commend worthy as he is? Perhaps in theory. His work throughout NationStates is outstanding but I would like to think that it hasn't reached its peak.

I routinely have considered candidates for commends and condemns but often they just aren't quite there yet. Nations like Cormac and Aba are examples of players that one day will be worthy of such an honour but it does a disservice to nations that have been commended already, other nations that should be commended as well as the nation themselves to be commended at this point in their NS career.

I feel many of these proposals are examples of some authors just trying to put another feather in their cap. I'm not trying to be cruel but that's how I see it. Let's keep the bar nice and high for these sorts of proposals.

Do you really think that Aba has reached the level of players that have been round for years helping the community? Is he at the level of Unibot, Sanctaria or Eluvatar?

As I said, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but this is some of my feelings on this proposal. If it comes up to vote I'll be abstaining.
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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:26 pm

I should also note, I'm not trying to hurt Aba's feelings. I remember I was a bit miffed a few years ago when the common sentiment in my commendation draft thread was "he's still going to do more things.. you should wait".

Turns out that was basically the beginning. I hadn't even created the UDL at that point.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
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with the best of intentions.
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