[PASSED] Commend Harmoneia

[Sciongrad]

The Security Council already has a strong precedent of not vetting publicly...

Well that explains the strikingly polarized and shoddy nature of most SC proposals then when compared to GA resolutions, doesn't it.

EDIT: Either way, I don't want to derail this. I've voted for this solely because my region has voted for it - I would otherwise abstain based on the supposed bias of the draft and my lack of knowledge on the topic to properly vote one way or another.

[Unibot III]

North East Somerset was banned from Lazarus with Harmoneia's support, because it was discovered he subverted Lazarus for the purposes of colonizing Lazarus. He's a bitter loser.

Ha, what nonsense. "Discovered" by whom? And on what basis I have "subverted" Lazarus? That's not a context, it's just hilariously bad propaganda.

It's true it wasn't much of a discovery - you kind of just said it to a person you shouldn't have admitted it to. >_<

I'm not a bitter loser. I'm perfectly happy to see Lazarus thrive under new ownership and with a sense of purpose it clearly lacked beforehand.

No, you're not. See your first post.

Well that explains the strikingly polarized and shoddy nature of most SC proposals then when compared to GA resolutions, doesn't it.

Most of the resolutions privately vetted are some of the better written resolutions because they're done in private by the better SC Authors carefully and they don't have other people offering alternative wordings with different variants of phrasing and tone. "Liberate Land of the Liberals II" was privately vetted, for example and a few other proposals that had to be done in private for strategy's sake -- those were some of the best written works in the SC compared to a lot of trash that has been vetted publicly.

[Sedgistan]

Metagamy" awkardness is essentially forced upon us by R4, but "sinker region" would've been no better. Not identifying Lazarus' special qualities would be equally, if not more so, problematic though.

OOC: The thing is, if one of my nations has an identified place in a particular region (especially if that's shown on a regional map) but I inadvertently let it CTE temporarily, the whole process of "rebirth" in Lazarus/Balder/Osiris and subsequent transfer back to its old location via a fleet of black helicopters is only OOC because IC the nation -- although it might briefly have gone incommunicado -- actually remained in its "historical" location all along... and thus, to me at least, any mention of nations being "reborn" elsewhere than in their old regions (unless a migration was actually RPed) looks like a 'meta-gaming' reference to the game's OOC mechanics.

It's not "metagamy". The nature of the NationStates world is that when nations that had previously ceased to exist are revived, this happens in one of three specific regions. So the rebirth of nations in Lazarus is entirely "IC", same as the black helicopters. You can roleplay something to the contrary, but that doesn't mean that what actually happens in NS is somehow less valid or incorrect.

Otherwise I could roleplay that the WA never existed, and declare that every GA & SC resolution is "metagaming" as a result.

[Darwinish Brentsylvania]

She deserves it, good luck on the proposal.

[New Charlzilla]

IMPEACH MILOGRAD

[Communist Eraser]

What I love about the SC is there is an objective measure of who is right - The vote.

This is the nature of SC-World, which is different to the other worlds you are from. Some people just can't get over that.

[Chester Pearson]

IMPEACH MILOGRAD

Take it to International Incidents please?

[Cerian Quilor]

There has still been no presentation of proof that NES or anyone else purged from Lazarus were conspiring to overturn Lazarus. And again, two of the five people purged don't even qualify as 'Imperialists'.

This vote is proof of the power of feel-good language in the lemming lobby.

[North East Somerset]

It's true it wasn't much of a discovery - you kind of just said it to a person you shouldn't have admitted it to. >_<

As Cerian says; "There has still been no presentation of proof that NES or anyone else purged from Lazarus were conspiring to overturn Lazarus. And again, two of the five people purged don't even qualify as 'Imperialists'."

You said "it was discovered he subverted Lazarus". I'm saying, that is a total lie and there is no real evidence behind it. If you repeat it enough times, it won't make it right, and I won't go away.

Harmoneia has a stake in this issue because she sanctioned and continued the bans, again, providing no explanation.

No, you're not. See your first post.

Nothing in my first post contradicts that. I'm obviously not going to support the change of regime, but it's blatantly obvious it's had a positive effect on activity and there is good potential for the future if Milograd sticks there, as I said in the post.

As for Harmoneia, she did very little to increase forum activity, it was dismal until Milo took over.

[Aetrina]

As is our custom we will not vote to commend a region with such strong anti-imperialist leanings. While we have no dispute with the facts outlined in this proposal as to the nature of the contributions made by Harmoneia to the world at large, we believe and have stated repeatedly that these kinds of commendations send a strong "we are right and the Imperialists are wrong" message. We are opposed and fully realize that ours is merely a "symbolic" vote as this will surely pass with a wide margin.

[Anime Daisuki]

Support.

[Bears Armed]

It's not "metagamy". The nature of the NationStates world is that when nations that had previously ceased to exist are revived, this happens in one of three specific regions. So the rebirth of nations in Lazarus is entirely "IC", same as the black helicopters. You can roleplay something to the contrary, but that doesn't mean that what actually happens in NS is somehow less valid or incorrect.

OOC: I said "too metagamy for me". I accept that it's "GP-IC' legal, but from a RP-IC viewpoint it's as nonsensical as the idea that all nations have only come into existence from 2002 onwards (and all did so in the Pacifics, moving thence via black helicopters, regardless of what their underlying concepts might be), the idea that every nation comes into existence with a population of exactly 5 million, the early rates of population-growth, and the maximum populations achieveable [so far]...

Otherwise I could roleplay that the WA never existed, and declare that every GA & SC resolution is "metagaming" as a result.

But if you didn't consider it to exist then how could you be commenting on its resolutions at all?

[Unibot III]

OOC: I said "too metagamy for me". I accept that it's "GP-IC' legal, but from a RP-IC viewpoint it's as nonsensical as the idea that all nations have only come into existence from 2002 onwards (and all did so in the Pacifics, moving thence via black helicopters, regardless of what their underlying concepts might be), the idea that every nation comes into existence with a population of exactly 5 million, the early rates of population-growth, and the maximum populations achieveable [so far]...

OOC: No offense intended Bears, but you roleplay a nation of talking bears. At that point you kind of lose the right to complain about sensibility. >_>

[Drop Your Pants]

Just to note, Uni doesn't represent Lazarus in any form whatsoever

Naturally i'm in favour of this. Its true Harmie had some horrible activity at times (who doesn't) but when she was around she made her presence known. And Jethnea was an amazing region.

[New Charlzilla]

OOC: I said "too metagamy for me". I accept that it's "GP-IC' legal, but from a RP-IC viewpoint it's as nonsensical as the idea that all nations have only come into existence from 2002 onwards (and all did so in the Pacifics, moving thence via black helicopters, regardless of what their underlying concepts might be), the idea that every nation comes into existence with a population of exactly 5 million, the early rates of population-growth, and the maximum populations achieveable [so far]...

OOC: No offense intended Bears, but you roleplay a nation of talking bears. At that point you kind of lose the right to complain about sensibility. >_>

Yeah and one that tried to friggin' promote BEEKEEPING.

[Chester Pearson]

OOC: No offense intended Bears, but you roleplay a nation of talking bears. At that point you kind of lose the right to complain about sensibility. >_>

Yeah and one that tried to friggin' promote BEEKEEPING.

And was successful I might add....

[New Charlzilla]

Yeah and one that tried to friggin' promote BEEKEEPING.

And was successful I might add....

Something if I still can't understand why.

[SFBA wabbitslayah]

I really like my interactions with Harm and have been a liaison to her region before. However, I am concerned at her inability to hold her region, Jethnea, which has flourished and died at least two times in the past, leaving her faithful residence completely in the lurch. I don't think boom and bust model employed by Harm is particularly representative of a commended nation and, despite her other achievements, I cannot vote for this. I will likely ABSTAIN from voting, although I am sure it will pass whatever I do. I'll be happy when it does.

I hope you know that I control the nation "South Harmoneia". So any failures of Jethnea in a lurch in more recent time is because of me. She had to leave NS when she passed the Nation on to me. I ran into problems of my own, personal. I just keep the nation and region alive for now.

I believe even now she can only dedicate so much of her time to NS. RL priorities shouldn't reflect back as negative against the player. Despite that, she still makes significant contributions when she can. I think it's commendable and as such support this proposal.

[Bears Armed]

And was successful I might add....

Something if I still can't understand why.

A lot of people like honey?

[Unibot III]

This has passed!

[Eist]

Congrats, Harm

[Vaculatestar64]

Congrats Harm!