NATION

PASSWORD

[PASSED] Commend Eluvatar

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.
User avatar
McMasterdonia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 776
Founded: Apr 19, 2012
Mother Knows Best State

[PASSED] Commend Eluvatar

Postby McMasterdonia » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:04 pm

Third Attempt:

The Security Council,

Believing that a history of cumulatively positive behaviour across regional borders responded to positively by those across the ideological spectrum is admirable and worthy of recognition;

Noting that Eluvatar is a founding member of the United Defenders League one of the most known and active defender organizations, subsequently serving as both Chief of Intelligence and Lieutenant, playing a pivotal role in gathering intel, providing tactical resources and regularly filling the organization's need for exact military precision in liberations;

Further Noting that Eluvatar is the creator of FriarTuck, a tool that has been used by many defender organizations to assist in perfecting and simplifying liberations, and as a result has assisted in the aiding, revitalizing and protection of nations and regions alike through this work;

Astounded by Eluvatar’s efforts to secure the regional community of Taijitu which Eluvatar worked tirelessly to protect, ultimately assisting in refounding the region with the support of the native community which allowed Taijitu to continue to exist in peace;

Amazed that Eluvatar has successfully juggled conflicting regional and organizational demands, loyalties and laws to almost unparalleled extents and has served successfully as a respected civil servant in the executive, the legislature and the judiciary of the The North Pacific, Balder, Osiris, The South Pacific and Taijitu;

Acknowledging Eluvatar’s work against tyrants and rogue Delegates in The North Pacific such as Lewis and Clark and Shoeless Joe winning the praise and admiration of the regional community. Furthermore their tireless work against the Empire in the East Pacific, which resulted in the nation being awarded honourary citizenship in said region;

Further acknowledging Eluvatar’s role in the liberation of the South Pacific, including their membership on the Allied Command Council as the head of military strategy and tactics. Eluvatar’s dedication to the cause greatly contributed to the liberation of the South Pacific from the oppressive regime of Milograd, a regime that led to the arbitrary removal of thousands of nations from the region;

Appreciating Eluvatar’s efforts in improving the security of The North Pacific, Osiris and the South Pacific with the development of state of the art technologies such as Toaster, that have been of great assistance in maintaining the security and high endorsement levels of the aforementioned regions;

Thankful for Eluvatar’s work as Delegate of The North Pacific, pursuing difficult legal and constitutional changes in order to improve regional prosperity and efficiency while remaining a respected and fair authority in the regional government;

Understanding that while Eluvatar has not personally authored resolutions of note; Eluvatar’s strong focus on regional engagement in matters before the World Assembly, has greatly contributed to the high number of World Assembly nations within The North Pacific today;

Disappointed that Eluvatar’s constant strives towards international and national diplomacy and their willingness to be a mentor to nations young and old alike, essentially setting a bar for nations to climb towards has failed to be commended so far by the World Assembly;

Hereby Commends Eluvatar.

Co-Authored by KiwiTaicho


The Security Council,

Believing that a history of cumulatively positive behaviour across regional borders responded to positively by those across the ideological spectrum is admirable and worthy of recognition;

Noting that Eluvatar is a founding member of the United Defenders League one of the most known and active defender organizations serving subsequently serving as both Chief of Intelligence and lieutenant, playing a pivotal role in gathering intel and providing tactical resources while also regularly filling the organizations’ need for a triggerman, allowing for exact military precision in liberations;

Further Noting that Eluvatar is the creator of FriarTuck, a tool that has been used by many defender organizations to assist in perfecting and simplifying liberations, and as a result has assisted in the aiding, revitalizing and protection of nations and regions alike through this work’

Astounded by Eluvatar’s efforts to protect the regional community of Taijitu which Eluvatar worked tirelessly to protect, ultimately assisting in refounding the region with the support of the native community which allowed Taijitu to continue to exist in peace;

Amazed that Eluvatar has successfully juggled conflicting regional and organizational demands, loyalties and laws to almost unparalleled extents and has served successfully as a respected civil servant in the executive, the legislature and the judiciary of the The North Pacific, Balder, Osiris, The South Pacific and Taijitu.

Acknowledging Eluvatar’s work against tyrants and rogue Delegates in The North Pacific such as Lewis and Clark and Shoeless Joe winning the praise and admiration of the regional community. Furthermore their tireless work against the Empire in the East Pacific, which resulted in the nation being awarded honourary citizenship in said region;

Further acknowledging Eluvatar’s role in the liberation of the South Pacific, including their membership on the Allied Command Council as the head of military strategy and tactics. Eluvatar’s dedication to the cause greatly contributed to the liberation of the South Pacific from the oppressive regime of Milograd, a regime that led to the arbitrary removal of thousands of nations from the region;

Appreciating Eluvatar’s efforts in improving the security of The North Pacific, Osiris and the South Pacific with the development of state of the art technologies such as Toaster, that have been of great assistance in maintaining the security and high endorsement levels of the aforementioned regions;

Thankful for Eluvatar’s work as Delegate of The North Pacific, pursuing difficult legal and constitutional changes in order to improve regional prosperity and efficiency while remaining a respected and fair authority in the regional government.

Understanding that while Eluvatar has not personally authored resolutions of note; Eluvatar’s strong focus on regional engagement in matters before the World Assembly, has greatly contributed to the high number of World Assembly nations within The North Pacific today;

Disappointed that Eluvatar’s constant strives towards international and national diplomacy and their willingness to be a mentor to nations young and old alike, essentially setting a bar for nations to climb towards has failed to be commended so far by the World Assembly;

Hereby Commends Eluvatar.

Co-Authored by KiwiTaicho

Old draft
The Security Council,

Believing that a history of cumulatively positive behaviour across regional borders responded to positively by those across the ideological spectrum is admirable and worthy of recognition;

Noting, that Eluvatar played a pivotal role gathering intel and providing tactical resources within the United Defenders League, one of the most known and active defender organizations and as a result has assisted in the aiding, revitalizing and protection of nations and regions alike through this work;

Amazed that Eluvatar has successfully juggled conflicting regional and organizational demands, loyalties and laws to almost unparalleled extents including successfully whistle-blowing where a high ranking UDL member leaked military secrets from The North Pacific;

Acknowledging Eluvatar’s work against tyrants and rogue Delegates in the South Pacific, The North Pacific and their tireless work against the Empire in the East Pacific, which resulted in the nation being awarded honourary citizenship in said region;

Further acknowledging Eluvatar’s role in the liberation of the South Pacific, which included membership of the Allied Command structure that resulted in the liberation of the South Pacific from the oppressive regime of Milograd, a regime that led to the arbitrary removal of thousands of nations from the region;

Appreciating Eluvatar’s efforts in improving the security of The North Pacific, Osiris and the South Pacific with the development of state of the art technologies that have been of great assistance in maintaining the security and high endorsement levels of the aforementioned regions;

Thankful for Eluvatar’s work as Delegate of The North Pacific, pursuing difficult legal and constitutional changes in order to improve regional prosperity and efficiency while remaining a respected and fair authority in the regional government;

Disappointed that Eluvatar’s constant strives towards international and national diplomacy and their willingness to be a mentor to nations young and old alike, essentially setting a bar for nations to climb towards has failed to be commended so far by the World Assembly;

Hereby Commends Eluvatar.

Co-Authored by KiwiTaicho
Last edited by Crazy girl on Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:36 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Minister of Foreign Affairs, the North Pacific
General of The North Pacific Army
Minister of Culture (Ret.)
Minister for Education (Ret.)
Security Councillor (Ret.)
Minister for Defence (Ret.)
Minister For Communications (Ret.)
Minister for Welcoming(Ret.)
Former Delegate of The North Pacific x 5
Vice Delegate of the North Pacific (Ret.)

Authored Security Council Resolutions

User avatar
Abacathea
Minister
 
Posts: 2057
Founded: Nov 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Abacathea » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:06 pm

Looks great, good target, and well written commend in my opinion. Best of luck to you and Eluvatar.
G.A #236; Renewable Energy Installations (Repealed)
G.A #239; Vehicle Emissions Convention (Repealed).
G.A #257; Reducing Automobile Emissions (Repealed).
G.A #263; Uranium Mining Standards Act
G.A #279; Right of Emigration
G.A #292; Nuclear Security Convention
(Co-Author)
G.A #363; Preservation of Artefacts (repealed)
S.C #118; Commend SkyDip
S.C #120; Commend Mousebumples
S.C #122; Condemn Gest
S.C #124; Commend Bears Armed
S.C #125; Commend The Bruce
S.C #126; Commend Sanctaria
S.C #131: Commend NewTexas
(Co-Author)
S.C #136; Repeal "Liberate St Abbaddon" (Co-Author)
S.C #143; Commend Hobbesistan
S.C #146; Repeal "Liberate Hogwarts"

User avatar
Kiwitaicho
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiwitaicho » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:11 pm

What excellent authorship ;)

Regardless of my slight bias, Eluvatar is a nation well worth commending.
Brigadier General - The North Pacific Army
Attorney General - The North Pacific

User avatar
Ramaeus
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1005
Founded: Dec 18, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Ramaeus » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:23 pm

Noting, that Eluvatar played a pivotal role gathering intel and providing tactical resources within the United Defenders League, one of the most known and active defender organizations and as a result has assisted in the aiding, revitalizing and protection of nations and regions alike through this work
You forgot a semicolon at the end of that clause.

Acknowledging Eluvatar’s work against tyrants and rogue Delegates in the South Pacific, The North Pacific and his tireless work against the Empire in the East Pacific, which resulted in the nation being awarded honourary citizenship in said region;

You can't use personal pronouns when referring to a nation. SC rule #4.

Further acknowledging Eluvatar’s role in the liberation of the South Pacific, which included membership of the Allied Command structure that resulted in the liberation of the South Pacific from the oppressive regime of Milograd that resulted in thousands of nations being banned from the region.

This clause is slightly confusing. Also, the way you end that clause is inconsistent.
Further acknowledging Eluvatar’s role in the liberation of the South Pacific, which included membership in the Allied Command structure that resulted in the liberation of the South Pacific from the oppressive regime of Milograd -- this regime resulted in thousands of nations being banned from the region;

Some variation of what I underlined might make more sense.

Besides that, it looks good.
Last edited by Ramaeus on Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Former thing.

User avatar
McMasterdonia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 776
Founded: Apr 19, 2012
Mother Knows Best State

Postby McMasterdonia » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:35 pm

Okay, I've made some edits. Let me know what you think.
Minister of Foreign Affairs, the North Pacific
General of The North Pacific Army
Minister of Culture (Ret.)
Minister for Education (Ret.)
Security Councillor (Ret.)
Minister for Defence (Ret.)
Minister For Communications (Ret.)
Minister for Welcoming(Ret.)
Former Delegate of The North Pacific x 5
Vice Delegate of the North Pacific (Ret.)

Authored Security Council Resolutions

User avatar
Ramaeus
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1005
Founded: Dec 18, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Ramaeus » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:44 pm

It looks good. Impressive work so far.
Former thing.

User avatar
Eist
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1194
Founded: May 10, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Eist » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:15 pm

I don't know much about Elu's work in TNP or the other GCR's and I don't care much for the way the UDL conducts it's business, but my encounters with Elu have always been very positive and I know that he's held in high regard wherever he does his business. Unless other information posted here somehow changes (because my own information is relatively limited), I certainly support this. The writing isn't that bad, either, although it could do with ironing out to make the passages flow better. For example:

Further acknowledging Eluvatar’s role in the liberation of the South Pacific, which included membership of the Allied Command structure that resulted in the liberation of the South Pacific from the oppressive regime of Milograd, a regime that led to the arbitrary removal of thousands of nations from the region;


Would be better as:

Furthermore, acknowledging Eluvatar’s role in the liberation of the South Pacific as a member of the Allied Command structure, culminating in the deposition of Milograd’s oppressive regime after the arbitrary removal of thousands of nations,


Although I don't see it as a positive that Elu didn't manage anything substantive until after thousands of nations were already ejected. Also, presenting this could cause you some strife because you and I both know that the vast majority of those were puppets. I must have had a dozen or more of my own puppets ejected by Milo.

Best:

Acknowledging Eluvatar’s pivotal role in the liberation of the South Pacific, culminating in the deposition of Milograd’s oppressive regime,


You could state exactly what the role was before the comma. I don't think "the Allied Command structure" is sufficient because you don't explain what it actually is. I personally think leaving it open is fine.
Unibot III wrote:Frankly, the lows that people sink to in this game is perhaps the most disturbing thing about NationStates Gameplay.

User avatar
Milograd
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5894
Founded: Feb 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Milograd » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:27 am

I'll support this. I've always had a lot of respect for Elu and his work in TNP.
Retired

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5577
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:59 am

Amazed that Eluvatar has successfully juggled conflicting regional and organizational demands, loyalties and laws to almost unparalleled extents including successfully whistle-blowing where a high ranking UDL member leaked military secrets from The North Pacific;


There were no military secrets leaked in the document posted by Ravania -- political secrets perhaps. Moreover, you're calling it "whistle-blowing" for the extra positive connotations, when he was simply doing his job as TNPI's head (which is what we call espionage and counter-intelligence -- not "whistle-blowing"). I can't help but think you're including this clause purely to score political points once more.

I support Eluvatar's commendation, but I don't think this commendation should be an opportunity for scoring more political shots against, essentially Eluvatar's long-time friends and colleagues.Moreover you've only scratched the surface in regards to the contributions he had with the UDL (given he and I are the only founding members still in the UDL) -- I fear you're trying to downplay his career there to help frame him as a "feederite hero who fought the UDL and coupers", given the author and the co-author it doesn't surprise me.

Moreover, the resolution should also reflect on Eluvatar's contributions to bureaucratic civil service and legal reform. I would consider him perhaps one of NationStates's greatest civil servants and legislators -- with a great sense of detail and the letter of the law. Any commendation of NS's best wonk should be a tribute to him as a player: which means lose the comma in the first premise, use proper italicization on the Preambulatory clauses and end them all of them with commas, not semi-colons -- the Co-authorship bit should end with a period and the "Commends" line should end with a semi-colon (because it's an operative clause).
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Blue Wolf II
Attaché
 
Posts: 91
Founded: Sep 13, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Blue Wolf II » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:12 pm

Unibot III wrote:There were no military secrets leaked in the document posted by Ravania -- political secrets perhaps. Moreover, you're calling it "whistle-blowing" for the extra positive connotations, when he was simply doing his job as TNPI's head (which is what we call espionage and counter-intelligence -- not "whistle-blowing"). I can't help but think you're including this clause purely to score political points once more.


I can't help to think that UDL is still deeply embarrassed by the incident and would say anything to make their blatant espionage seem like a minor misunderstanding. To say no military secrets were stolen is insulting. Ravania made a PDF of an entire thread in the military forum, and using that information Unibot tried to influence a military operation via underhanded political means. We would be naive to think he didn't steal more, and naive to think the UDL never used the information Ravania provided.

Eluvatar deserves recognition for his loyalty to The North Pacific, despite the consequences you, Unibot, tried to level against him. To remove mention of it would be a disservice to Eluvatar's character and his service to The North Pacific.
Last edited by Blue Wolf II on Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Kiwitaicho
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiwitaicho » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Amazed that Eluvatar has successfully juggled conflicting regional and organizational demands, loyalties and laws to almost unparalleled extents including successfully whistle-blowing where a high ranking UDL member leaked military secrets from The North Pacific;


There were no military secrets leaked in the document posted by Ravania -- political secrets perhaps. Moreover, you're calling it "whistle-blowing" for the extra positive connotations, when he was simply doing his job as TNPI's head (which is what we call espionage and counter-intelligence -- not "whistle-blowing"). I can't help but think you're including this clause purely to score political points once more.

I support Eluvatar's commendation, but I don't think this commendation should be an opportunity for scoring more political shots against, essentially Eluvatar's long-time friends and colleagues.Moreover you've only scratched the surface in regards to the contributions he had with the UDL (given he and I are the only founding members still in the UDL) -- I fear you're trying to downplay his career there to help frame him as a "feederite hero who fought the UDL and coupers", given the author and the co-author it doesn't surprise me.

Moreover, the resolution should also reflect on Eluvatar's contributions to bureaucratic civil service and legal reform. I would consider him perhaps one of NationStates's greatest civil servants and legislators -- with a great sense of detail and the letter of the law. Any commendation of NS's best wonk should be a tribute to him as a player: which means lose the comma in the first premise, use proper italicization on the Preambulatory clauses and end them all of them with commas, not semi-colons -- the Co-authorship bit should end with a period and the "Commends" line should end with a semi-colon (because it's an operative clause).

I feel I need to jump in here and address a number of points. (Although I think Blue Wolf has covered much of it while I was writing this.)

The information leaked was a military secret. Given I was the head of the NPA at the time, I think I'm in a better position to say what is and isn't a military secret. Yes? I agree that the information was political in nature but it was only available in the NPA area which makes it a military secret.

Considering the NPIA (not TNPI) never really took off, I think it's a stretch to say he had an obligation to disclose it as a result of that role. It cheapens what I'm sure was a difficult decision for Eluvatar where he was rather torn as to how to respond to the issue at hand to suggest otherwise.

This clause actually didn't have that part in it originally but someone else suggested we elaborate. So no this wasn't some sort of "lets get the UDL" moment. McMasterdonia and I are well aware how fond of the org Eluvatar is and it stands to reason that we tried to state the facts as kindly as possible. If you think this is the worst possible way of stating what happened, I assure you it isn't.

Just to clear this up once and for all, I don't harbour any particular nasty feelings towards the UDL whatsoever. I'll admit that whispers and happenings surrounding the org amuse me greatly on occasion but that's as far as it goes. I will admit however that I do feel that you running the UDL's PR department is like putting a bull in a china shop.

I'm sorry you feel the need to respin this particular story and put a damper on an otherwise happy time. As far as I'm concerned there's only one person who should be requesting the removal of that particular info from the commend. And with all due respect Unibot, that isn't you.

If you are concerned the commend is lacking, by all means make suggestions for additional content. It is a draft after all. I personally would consider being a founding member of the UDL one of his less notable accomplishments but others may disagree. It is also arguable that including that fact may make it less likely to pass.

Thank you for the constructive feedback on how it is punctuated. I suspect McM will take it into consideration.
Brigadier General - The North Pacific Army
Attorney General - The North Pacific

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5577
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:18 pm

Kiwitaicho wrote:The information leaked was a military secret. Given I was the head of the NPA at the time, I think I'm in a better position to say what is and isn't a military secret. Yes? I agree that the information was political in nature but it was only available in the NPA area which makes it a military secret.


Just because something is said in a military forum does not mean it is a military secret. Anything of use was of political nature, anything of a military nature was not of use since it was already known (the military had already deployed).

Considering the NPIA (not TNPI) never really took off, I think it's a stretch to say he had an obligation to disclose it as a result of that role. It cheapens what I'm sure was a difficult decision for Eluvatar where he was rather torn as to how to respond to the issue at hand to suggest otherwise.


This was right when NPIA was first taking off and Eluvatar gave that as his reasoning for trawling our IRC files for Anti-TNP things -- which was why I initially had ordered for Eluvatar to be banned from UDL because he originally had explained the situation as him having found something on UDL as apart of his NPIA duties using his privileges as UDL's Lt and Admin. It was only after it was explained to me the nature of what he found (I had a hard time believing Ravania would have even been stupid enough to share that with us), a few minutes later, Eluvatar's punishment was reversed.

But it's been a whitewashing of the event to suggest Eluvatar did we what he did out of just being a "good citizen"; he was fulfilling a job on the part of NPIA and de facto committing espionage against the UDL. He was not online when the Ravania event even occurred (not many of us were), he only found it later by trawling through the logs for stuff. We removed the punishment because we agreed Ravania had been in the wrong there. But I don't like how Blue Wolf and you and others have spun this as "one lone man working against the UDL" -- it was the NPIA using forum privileges and IRC logs to find stuff on us.

This clause actually didn't have that part in it originally but someone else suggested we elaborate.


I wonder who. :roll:

As far as I'm concerned there's only one person who should be requesting the removal of that particular info from the commend. And with all due respect Unibot, that isn't you.


Thanks, good to know that this commendation is just trying to cheapen Eluvatar's legacy by throwing in some political points. Moreover, I disagree with the resolution's cutting out of the story of his work with the UDL down to "he was an intelligence minister". That was the least of what Elu did in the UDL and I have a feeling this resolution is overall too centric on Eluvatar's TNP legacy and the sort of revisionism that TNP has spun around the events of Ravania. You're trying to neutralize his figure down to something amendable to the neutrals and independents and Anti-UDLers in TNP as opposed to praising Eluvatar for who he is -- that's deplorable.

EDIT: Actually I looked at the old logs between Eluvatar and me and he didn't mention NPAI when the thing first broke out, but I did make a few comments that suggested I had assumed it was for NPAI. I'm also pretty sure he mentioned his duties to NPAI somewhere in the discussion on the issue. He had recently left UDL's MOI position to become head of NPAI, so there was some general distrust floating around when the issue broke out.
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Ikania
Minister
 
Posts: 3345
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ikania » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:25 pm

I endorse this bill.
FOOTBALL'S COMING HOME
(retired)
Costa Fierro wrote:hope you get hit by a bus you cancerous piece of shit
Kamchastkia wrote:Piece of fucking shit
Kill yourself
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You're historically illiterate and a piece of shit human
I am promising you that if I ever get ahold of you, I will cripple or kill you.
New World Oceania wrote:I wish you weren't such a straight up goddamn fucking idiot
go fuck yourself
94 Block wrote:But you can go fuck yourself, ungrateful cunt.
Cameron Romefeller wrote:you knuckle dragging fuckstick from a backwater gcr
Canton Empire wrote:You are a scumbag who deserves a special spot in hell for what you do
Big Bad Badger wrote:Ike, the petulant child act is getting old.

User avatar
Frattastan II
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1030
Founded: Nov 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Frattastan II » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Needs more research and details.
Rejected Realms Army High Commander
(So you've been ejected..., forum, news, RRA)
<@Guy> well done, fuckhead.
* @Guy claps for frattastan

User avatar
Eluvatar
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2174
Founded: Mar 31, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Eluvatar » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:17 pm

Kiwitaicho wrote:As far as I'm concerned there's only one person who should be requesting the removal of that particular info from the commend. And with all due respect Unibot, that isn't you.

Indeed, it is me. I do request that that particular incident not be mentioned. While I believe I made a right choice, it's not an incident I'm proud of -- I feel I should have either prevented it by inducing a better approach to these matters in the UDL or could have reacted to the incident with a better choice, should have found a gentler but still ethical course of action.

Unibot III wrote:
This clause actually didn't have that part in it originally but someone else suggested we elaborate.


I wonder who. :roll:

As far as I'm concerned there's only one person who should be requesting the removal of that particular info from the commend. And with all due respect Unibot, that isn't you.


Thanks, good to know that this commendation is just trying to cheapen Eluvatar's legacy by throwing in some political points. Moreover, I disagree with the resolution's cutting out of the story of his work with the UDL down to "he was an intelligence minister". That was the least of what Elu did in the UDL and I have a feeling this resolution is overall too centric on Eluvatar's TNP legacy and the sort of revisionism that TNP has spun around the events of Ravania. You're trying to neutralize his figure down to something amendable to the neutrals and independents and Anti-UDLers in TNP as opposed to praising Eluvatar for who he is -- that's deplorable.


Unibot, while I would prefer not to see the language you are objecting to, I think you do yourself a disservice (and disrespect Kiwitaicho and McMasterdonia) by jumping to these conclusions. Neither Kiwitaicho nor McMasterdonia have ever been active members of the UDL. What knowledge they have of my involvement there can only be secondhand. One can imagine that they will welcome input from those who know firsthand.

With that, I hope to leave this thread and not return. It feels too much like tooting one's own horn. I certainly will not be asking for the inclusion of any particular matter (much as I may be tempted to) though if something else crops up that I would definitely prefer not to see attached to my nation, I will comment to that effect.

To the authors and other supporters, thank you for thinking of me as worth Commending, and in particular for any and all efforts you've made. I appreciate it. Regardless of whether the proposal is ultimately one I am comfortable with, or whether it gets anywhere, you have my thanks.

Edit: removed some redundant quoted text.
Edit2: removed more redundant quoted text.
Last edited by Eluvatar on Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To Serve and Protect: UDL

Eluvatar - Taijitu member

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5577
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:21 pm

You're right, Eluvatar. I shouldn't have been so assuming of McMasterdonia and Kiwi's intentions given they weren't there to know otherwise. My apologies.
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:56 pm

That clause should very much stay in. Eluvatar's willingness to handle divided loyalties like that is a huge part of why he's commend worthy. Otherwise, its just another run of the mill UDL commend (with the added bonus of some GCR work).
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Eluvatar
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2174
Founded: Mar 31, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Eluvatar » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:00 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:That clause should very much stay in. Eluvatar's willingness to handle divided loyalties like that is a huge part of why he's commend worthy. Otherwise, its just another run of the mill UDL commend (with the added bonus of some GCR work).


As much as I just said I'd rather stay away from this thread, I am obliged to make sure I am understood correctly. I don't want to see the incident in question in any resolution attached to my nation. I said no more and no less.
To Serve and Protect: UDL

Eluvatar - Taijitu member

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5577
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:07 pm

Furthermore some stuff missing from this draft:

  • Organized the refound of Taijitu and the community there. Taijitu should be mentioned in a commendation of Eluvatar.
  • One of the founding members of the UDL -- besides me, he's the only one still in the UDL.
  • Eluvatar's main work with the UDL includes counter-intelligence, admin and coding duties and regular defender/triggerman duties. We love him very much. One of the things that's he done as a defender is his work as a triggerman (this could be written around R4 as "Eluvatar had regularly filled The United Defenders League[, NPA] and other military organizations' need for a triggerman" -- which does not say explicitly that Eluvatar WAS the triggerman).
  • Eluvatar created FriarTuck, which is used by most of the major defender and feederite military organizations.
  • Eluvatar also created Telescope, which was used for quite some time by some defenders of different defense organizations. Telescope may have been open to other feederite militaries, but I cannot remember.
  • You've also mentioned Toaster -- you can mentioned FriarTuck, Telescope and Toaster by name if you're clever enough. TIP: I did it with NSEconomy and xkoranate in "Commend Commerce Heights". ;)
  • Won the Dipes Award in 2012 for Intelligence work with the UDL. That vote was open to the public during the Defenders Awards.
  • Serves on TNP's Security Council (or did serve?).
  • One of the lead organizers of the IPO business at April Fools. (he even drew up a constitution for it).
  • Eluvatar has been a civil servant in so many regions in so many positions -- I encourage the makers to find them and list them. I know he was Chair of the Assembly in The South Pacific, Associate Justice in Balder (where he was instrumental in authoring the Militia bill) and Justice in Osiris among dozens and dozens of other positions. He's the kind of guy who made a big difference as a civil servant and a "small guy" in regions to their political and legal reform, just as much as he made a big difference as delegate and other larger positions.
  • Let's get specifics about Eluvatar's terms as Delegate of TNP. From my memory, TNP went from total inactivity to the most active region in NS when Eluvatar was delegate -- he made many investments in the growth of TNP including the revitalization of the NPA, the implementation of the Council of Five (which he served as several different positions) and lots of other stuff that frankly slip my brain right now - but should be mentioned. That was a very successful few months for TNP and sets the tone of Eluvatar as being a constructive force wherever he goes.

A commendation of Eluvatar has a lot of meat to it - he's done a lot and thus you have no need to gloss over stuff with a "general" view. My recommendation would be to look at commendations for Commerce Heights, The Cat-Tribe, Starblaydia and Glen-Rhodes and some others, as examples of commendations that go more into specifics. There's a kind of sinking standard quality lately for commendations, but in general if you can go specific on what someone has done that's better than glossing over stuff as "he worked here and did good things" -- usually people do that when they know their candidate has only done one or two things maybe that are commendable (so they prevaricate to avoid admitting that).

The more detail you've put into a resolution, the more I think you do the nominee justice.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:34 pm, edited 8 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
McMasterdonia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 776
Founded: Apr 19, 2012
Mother Knows Best State

Postby McMasterdonia » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:03 pm

Thanks Unibot - that's exactly the sort of stuff we are looking for. This is just a draft and we posted it here early on to receive criticism and further ideas.

As I consider Eluvatar to have been my mentor and a friend, I want this resolution to do him justice and to reflect his good work in my home region and the world as a whole.
Minister of Foreign Affairs, the North Pacific
General of The North Pacific Army
Minister of Culture (Ret.)
Minister for Education (Ret.)
Security Councillor (Ret.)
Minister for Defence (Ret.)
Minister For Communications (Ret.)
Minister for Welcoming(Ret.)
Former Delegate of The North Pacific x 5
Vice Delegate of the North Pacific (Ret.)

Authored Security Council Resolutions

User avatar
Abacathea
Minister
 
Posts: 2057
Founded: Nov 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Abacathea » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:43 am

McMasterdonia wrote:Thanks Unibot - that's exactly the sort of stuff we are looking for. This is just a draft and we posted it here early on to receive criticism and further ideas.

As I consider Eluvatar to have been my mentor and a friend, I want this resolution to do him justice and to reflect his good work in my home region and the world as a whole.


For the record Uni I suggested they elaborate on that point not for any reason more than detail is good :p
G.A #236; Renewable Energy Installations (Repealed)
G.A #239; Vehicle Emissions Convention (Repealed).
G.A #257; Reducing Automobile Emissions (Repealed).
G.A #263; Uranium Mining Standards Act
G.A #279; Right of Emigration
G.A #292; Nuclear Security Convention
(Co-Author)
G.A #363; Preservation of Artefacts (repealed)
S.C #118; Commend SkyDip
S.C #120; Commend Mousebumples
S.C #122; Condemn Gest
S.C #124; Commend Bears Armed
S.C #125; Commend The Bruce
S.C #126; Commend Sanctaria
S.C #131: Commend NewTexas
(Co-Author)
S.C #136; Repeal "Liberate St Abbaddon" (Co-Author)
S.C #143; Commend Hobbesistan
S.C #146; Repeal "Liberate Hogwarts"

User avatar
Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:54 am

Eluvatar wrote:
Cerian Quilor wrote:That clause should very much stay in. Eluvatar's willingness to handle divided loyalties like that is a huge part of why he's commend worthy. Otherwise, its just another run of the mill UDL commend (with the added bonus of some GCR work).


As much as I just said I'd rather stay away from this thread, I am obliged to make sure I am understood correctly. I don't want to see the incident in question in any resolution attached to my nation. I said no more and no less.

I'm aware that you said, that, Elu. But I think its a key part of why you're commend worthy and belongs in any commendation of you.

Nothing that the IPO was involved with deserves a commendation. We still have to get the eyesore that is Commend the NatonStates Community off the roster.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5577
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:36 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:
Eluvatar wrote:Nothing that the IPO was involved with deserves a commendation. We still have to get the eyesore that is Commend the NatonStates Community off the roster.


The voting public overwhelmingly disagrees. Moreover, if you knew Eluvatar, you'd know that him drafting a full-on Constitution at 2 AM for a fun community that popped out of nowhere and wasn't set to last for more than two days is the perfect representation of who Eluvatar is as a player -- which is why I brought it up.

Whenever there's a policy to be drafted, nuances to be made, details to be hashed or data to be amassed, there will always be Eluvatar, NationStates's finest civil servant, there, ready to get things done.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Acitcratna
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 149
Founded: Aug 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Acitcratna » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:53 pm

It looks really good, although it is slightly bias, and needs a little more detail; of course, saying that really doesn't help in the slightest.

So if I could make a suggestion, I would suggest changing "Thankful" in line 7 to "Appreciative", or something of the sort, to add more formality to the proposal, and the word "Appreciating" in the line above it to something else (to avoid repetition). I believe that that would be a more formal approach, and make a repeal less likely.

User avatar
Charax
Diplomat
 
Posts: 985
Founded: Apr 20, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Charax » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:33 pm

I support this. Elu's a really deserving candidate.
Charax E. Romanov
RETIRED

Fought in the War Room 2012-2014


<@Zaolat>: Charax, you're my favourite anti-hero.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to WA Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads