If I draw a line, you cannot see it from far away. If I build a wall on said line, you can see the wall. Ditto for fence. Ditto for other, visible, border markings.
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by Shofercia » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:50 pm
by Zepplien » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:51 pm
Arumdaum wrote:New Equestrian Democratic Republic wrote:Illegal immigrants came in illegally and now they want driver licenses? This is a slap in the face to all law abiding citizens and of course the immigrants that worked hard to come in legally. Stop giving illegals more incentives to jump the border.
Why not? They're human beings who need to drive too, such as to the grocery store, to school, or the movies.
Not to mention that it assumes that all legal immigrants work hard to get in, and all illegals are lazy. Most people become illegal immigrants by overstaying their visa. Becoming a US citizen is incredibly difficult for most people, who don't have a recommendation by a US employer, nor any family that are American citizens.
Becoming a legal immigrant is quite easy if you possess a spouse that's an American citizen, but much more difficult if you're self-employed. For example, my uncle, who runs a rather well-to-do restaurant chain here in the United States, has been unable to obtain a green card as no employer will recommend him (he's his own employer, and he can't recommend himself, and it's not like he's going to fire everyone and sell the restaurants he owns to possibly get a green card), so has to go to Korea every few years to renew his visa. Although he can't recommend himself despite being an employer, he can still get his employees to obtain green cards by recommending them.
On the other hand, most illegal immigrants (especially the ones who cross the border) are in poverty, with a poor education and unable to work as a skilled laborer.
Perhaps America should instead make becoming a US citizen even remotely possible for most people first.
by Mushet » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:51 pm
by Shofercia » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:54 pm
Mushet wrote:Shofercia wrote:
If I draw a line, you cannot see it from far away. If I build a wall on said line, you can see the wall. Ditto for fence. Ditto for other, visible, border markings.
The line is invisible in the first place, don't matter of you put stuff on it, the line is still invisible and the walls become the visible border markings.
by Mushet » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:50 pm
Shofercia wrote:Mushet wrote:The line is invisible in the first place, don't matter of you put stuff on it, the line is still invisible and the walls become the visible border markings.
Look, in the society that we live in today, borders matter, irrespective of whether you can see the actual line or not. By line, I was referring to border markings, i.e. things that mark the border line.
by Ifreann » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:59 am
Shofercia wrote:Mushet wrote:I think it's stupid for citizens of a settler colonial state to complain about "illegal" immigrants coming in. America was built by illegally going into other nations, difference here is there is a lot less murder, theft and crimes against humanity involved when Mexicans cross that invisible line.
The line ain't invisible. It's very clearly marked. Heck, US and Canada mark their border...
by Farnhamia » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:14 am
by Ifreann » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:16 am
by Frisivisia » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:19 am
by Chernoslavia » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:30 am
Mushet wrote:Chernoslavia wrote:So for Brown, its wrong for Americans to own sporting rifles, but its okay to give out driver's license to illegals.
If we had to get rid of one state, it should be California.
I think it's stupid for citizens of a settler colonial state to complain about "illegal" immigrants coming in. America was built by illegally going into other nations, difference here is there is a lot less murder, theft and crimes against humanity involved when Mexicans cross that invisible line.
by Shofercia » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:03 am
by Chernoslavia » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:02 pm
by Mushet » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:19 pm
Chernoslavia wrote:Mushet wrote:I think it's stupid for citizens of a settler colonial state to complain about "illegal" immigrants coming in. America was built by illegally going into other nations, difference here is there is a lot less murder, theft and crimes against humanity involved when Mexicans cross that invisible line.
Well, back in the colonial times immigration was legal as nobody really cared much nor has regulation for it have ever been thought of. As for less murder I disagree, Im not saying all mexicans illegally migrating are potential criminals, but there have been clashes between border patrols and narco gangs trying to smuggle drugs into the US.
by Zepplien » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:23 pm
Mushet wrote:Chernoslavia wrote:
Well, back in the colonial times immigration was legal as nobody really cared much nor has regulation for it have ever been thought of. As for less murder I disagree, Im not saying all mexicans illegally migrating are potential criminals, but there have been clashes between border patrols and narco gangs trying to smuggle drugs into the US.
Stealing and illegally occupying the land of indigenous nations wasn't legal nor was it more peaceful than Mexicans crossing an invisible line into land that really shouldn't have belonged to America in the first place.
by Mushet » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:30 pm
Zepplien wrote:Mushet wrote:Stealing and illegally occupying the land of indigenous nations wasn't legal nor was it more peaceful than Mexicans crossing an invisible line into land that really shouldn't have belonged to America in the first place.
I think the German, Dutch, British, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgian, and Japanese Empires of the times would like to have a word with you
by Libertarian California » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:14 pm
Mushet wrote:Zepplien wrote:I think the German, Dutch, British, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgian, and Japanese Empires of the times would like to have a word with you
If you make a trety you honor it, if you don't that's interneational law, and in the case of the US was illegal in the nation due to Article 6 of the constitution.
by Mushet » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:17 pm
Libertarian California wrote:Mushet wrote:If you make a trety you honor it, if you don't that's interneational law, and in the case of the US was illegal in the nation due to Article 6 of the constitution.
If America had honored the treaties with the Natives, would now think that we're a legitimate nation?
by Geilinor » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:54 pm
Zepplien wrote:Arumdaum wrote:Why not? They're human beings who need to drive too, such as to the grocery store, to school, or the movies.
Not to mention that it assumes that all legal immigrants work hard to get in, and all illegals are lazy. Most people become illegal immigrants by overstaying their visa. Becoming a US citizen is incredibly difficult for most people, who don't have a recommendation by a US employer, nor any family that are American citizens.
Becoming a legal immigrant is quite easy if you possess a spouse that's an American citizen, but much more difficult if you're self-employed. For example, my uncle, who runs a rather well-to-do restaurant chain here in the United States, has been unable to obtain a green card as no employer will recommend him (he's his own employer, and he can't recommend himself, and it's not like he's going to fire everyone and sell the restaurants he owns to possibly get a green card), so has to go to Korea every few years to renew his visa. Although he can't recommend himself despite being an employer, he can still get his employees to obtain green cards by recommending them.
On the other hand, most illegal immigrants (especially the ones who cross the border) are in poverty, with a poor education and unable to work as a skilled laborer.
Perhaps America should instead make becoming a US citizen even remotely possible for most people first.
America is overpopulated
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