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Britain to bring back National Service?

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Imperializt Russia
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Britain to bring back National Service?

Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:30 am

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 2.htm#l1g1

Parliament is yet to vote on it, but it has been submitted to... some, parliamentary body of some sort.

National Service was common in the postwar years in Britain, in which a man was to spend a year in military service. Many famous people such as Michael Caine underwent national service.

But parliament wants to bring back the practice. Conscription's largely looked upon unfavourably these days - so that's no longer what it's about. National Service resurgence has been talked about since the ConDem coalition came to power in 2010. It's supposed to be about teaching discipline and civic virtue. Anyone between the ages of 18 and 26 will be required to "serve" for one year,
an element of public service, comprising one or more of the following to be chosen by the individual—
(i)charitable work,
(ii)social action,
(iii)care for the elderly or disabled,
(iv)overseas development activity, or
(v)work connected with the National Health Service, the
emergency services or the Armed Forces.

It's completely voluntary as to which you choose, and the armed forces represents one of only seven suggested options. I imagine there will be a heavy swing for non-combat roles in the forces, rather than combat elements.
If you fail or refuse to serve, then you will be guilty of an offence, but the bill is at such an early stage that what that offence or its punishment may be is not yet finalised.
It also states this for the "scope" of the programme:
(a)educational assistance for those participants who have yet to attain basic educational requirements of reading and writing in English and mathematics;
(b)coaching and instruction to attain basic levels of physical fitness,
personal discipline, smart appearance, self respect and respect for
others;
(c)instruction in personal financial budgeting, household bills, nutrition,
cooking, time keeping, life skills, tolerance towards others, treating
elderly and disabled people with dignity and respect; and
(d)instruction in basic aspects of the law in relation to the most common
offences involving young people.

This could be good, since these are virtues often considered to be lacking in modern society, and I was taught at school very little of (c), personally, nor do I feel schoolchildren are adequately taught about law and offence.

Frankly, I like the idea.
It also gives me an excuse to serve in the forces and get my mother to shush her objections over it.

What's your take NSG? Teaching civic virtue through charity and civil service on minimum wage the way forwards?
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:36 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:What's your take NSG? Teaching civic virtue through charity and civil service on minimum wage the way forwards?


Make it mandatory for every citizen.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:37 am

I ran away from one country to avoid compulsory service, and now the country I ran away to wants to implement compulsory service.


Wtf, universe.

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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:37 am

Should be three years at most or at least two. One year is not long enough. Should also be viewed as a combination apprenticeship/civic duty.

However I also think that people of my age need to be involved in some way as well. Otherwise it's too easy to play a blame game. Of course we all can't, at our age, do military service but I do think a weekend a month helping out with some kind of charitable work would be good...of course the down side there is if its any kind of work involving vulnerable people that CRB checks and other bureaucracy will tie up any proposal with red tape.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:39 am

How is the "Kids these days" attitude getting any traction when there are an absolute raft of people getting investigated for historical sex abuse allegations?

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:39 am

Divair wrote:I ran away from one country to avoid compulsory service, and now the country I ran away to wants to implement compulsory service.


Wtf, universe.

Unlike Israel, it's not mandatory military service.
You can work in a care home, for a charity, do charity work abroad, the police, fire, or as a part of the NHS.
It also says "social action" and I have no idea what that really refers to.

Local improvement projects or some such?
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Postby Divair » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:41 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Divair wrote:I ran away from one country to avoid compulsory service, and now the country I ran away to wants to implement compulsory service.


Wtf, universe.

Unlike Israel, it's not mandatory military service.
You can work in a care home, for a charity, do charity work abroad, the police, fire, or as a part of the NHS.
It also says "social action" and I have no idea what that really refers to.

Local improvement projects or some such?

Should be voluntary. Whether or not it's military is irrelevant. Giving away my time to the state rather than using it as I wish is something I'm not keen on.

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HappyShark
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Postby HappyShark » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:41 am

Awesome hell why not.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:41 am

Divair wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Unlike Israel, it's not mandatory military service.
You can work in a care home, for a charity, do charity work abroad, the police, fire, or as a part of the NHS.
It also says "social action" and I have no idea what that really refers to.

Local improvement projects or some such?

Should be voluntary. Whether or not it's military is irrelevant. Giving away my time to the state rather than using it as I wish is something I'm not keen on.

Most charities and care homes are not run by the state.

The state's just saying you have to go out there and do it. And paying you for the privilege, I might add.
And house you to boot.
Last edited by Imperializt Russia on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:41 am

Brilliant news.
Last edited by Wind in the Willows on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:42 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Divair wrote:Should be voluntary. Whether or not it's military is irrelevant. Giving away my time to the state rather than using it as I wish is something I'm not keen on.

Most charities and care homes are not run by the state.

Being forced to contribute to them is enforcement by the state.
Last edited by Divair on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:43 am

Divair wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Most charities and care homes are not run by the state.

Being forced to contribute to them is enforcement by the state.

I'm a big government advocate and possible socialist, so we're not going to agree on this.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:43 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Divair wrote:Being forced to contribute to them is enforcement by the state.

I'm a big government advocate and possible socialist, so we're not going to agree on this.

That much is beyond obvious.

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Aquafireland
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Postby Aquafireland » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:44 am

Well, this is certainly a surprise. I don't really think most would be happy with it, though.
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Aquafireland
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Postby Aquafireland » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:44 am

Divair wrote:I ran away from one country to avoid compulsory service, and now the country I ran away to wants to implement compulsory service.


Wtf, universe.

:rofl:
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:44 am

Divair wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Most charities and care homes are not run by the state.

Being forced to contribute to them is enforcement by the state.

I don't see how it differs from paying taxes.
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Postby Divair » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:45 am

Risottia wrote:
Divair wrote:Being forced to contribute to them is enforcement by the state.

I don't see how it differs from paying taxes.

You choose to get a job and you don't have to contribute any time beyond filling out forms. You cannot choose to exist.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:45 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Divair wrote:Should be voluntary. Whether or not it's military is irrelevant. Giving away my time to the state rather than using it as I wish is something I'm not keen on.

Most charities and care homes are not run by the state.

The state's just saying you have to go out there and do it. And paying you for the privilege, I might add.
And house you to boot.

So if I follow, there is work that needs doing, and money to pay people to do it. So why is this being made mandatory at all? Just hire people. Not like there aren't plenty out of work in Britain.

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Postby Agritum » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:46 am

Risottia wrote:
Divair wrote:Being forced to contribute to them is enforcement by the state.

I don't see how it differs from paying taxes.

Taxes don't require heavy social and physical involvement to be paid.

Unless you count going to the post office to pay them.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:47 am

Divair wrote:
Risottia wrote:I don't see how it differs from paying taxes.

You choose to get a job

To a point: you have also duty to try and get a job.

and you don't have to contribute any time beyond filling out forms. You cannot choose to exist.

Well, you can choose to move. You stay, you contribute.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:47 am

Agritum wrote:
Risottia wrote:I don't see how it differs from paying taxes.

Taxes don't require heavy social and physical involvement to be paid.

Unless you count going to the post office to pay them.


Working isn't social and physical involvement?
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:47 am

Risottia wrote:
Divair wrote:You choose to get a job

To a point: you have also duty to try and get a job.

and you don't have to contribute any time beyond filling out forms. You cannot choose to exist.

Well, you can choose to move. You stay, you contribute.

Taxes seem contribution enough.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:48 am

Ifreann wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Most charities and care homes are not run by the state.

The state's just saying you have to go out there and do it. And paying you for the privilege, I might add.
And house you to boot.

So if I follow, there is work that needs doing, and money to pay people to do it. So why is this being made mandatory at all? Just hire people. Not like there aren't plenty out of work in Britain.

Civic responsibilities and some such.
The language of thing seems to imply there will be classroom time as well, intended to teach things like basic financial management, an understanding of the rule of law and "civic pride".
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:48 am

Risottia wrote:To a point: you have also duty to try and get a job.

No such duty exists. It is entirely voluntary.

Risottia wrote:Well, you can choose to move. You stay, you contribute.

And if this is implemented, that's what I'll do. I'll go back to SA if I must.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:48 am

Ifreann wrote:
Risottia wrote:To a point: you have also duty to try and get a job.


Well, you can choose to move. You stay, you contribute.

Taxes seem contribution enough.

That depends on the levels the elected gov't wants to provide and how much the elector-taxpayers are willing/able to pay.
Last edited by Risottia on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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