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The Mac Donald's Strike

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Should minimum wage be raised?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:24 pm

Yes
63
51%
No
27
22%
No minimum wage
15
12%
Give everyone benefits but keep minimal
6
5%
Give more benefits and increase
12
10%
 
Total votes : 123

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:34 pm

Keronians wrote:
Maineiacs wrote:

Fixed that for you.


America has free primary and secondary education... :eyebrow:

Unless nowadays Americans also refer to universities as schools...

And America used to offer free college educations. Imagine that.

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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:35 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Keronians wrote:
America has free primary and secondary education... :eyebrow:

Unless nowadays Americans also refer to universities as schools...

And America used to offer free college educations. Imagine that.


We did?

Why did we stop?
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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:37 pm

Saint Kitten wrote:
Grenartia wrote:


Gee, OP. What's YOUR opinion?

:palm:

There's no answer to Grenartia's question here.

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:38 pm

Saint Kitten wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Gee, OP. What's YOUR opinion?


:palm:

There's no answer to Grenartia's question here. And you blew the tags.

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:44 pm

Albion Rhodesia wrote:
Ontorisa wrote:They should move to Canada.
Minimum wage here is $10.00.
I would know.
I worked there all summer making 80 dollars a day.


Considering that everything up in Canada is taxed, they may as well pay you a $100.00 an hour as minimum wage, as your socialized medicine will suck up a majority of your money, along with your crazy high state and federal tax you pay on all products purchased.


Many states have both state and federal sales taxes.

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:46 pm

Grantica wrote:Ha, if they can get it, I guess good for them. Otherwise, their work isn't worth that much.

Actually, the whole thing is absurd. Do they want to be replaced by robots?

http://news.cnet.com/mcdonalds-hires-70 ... 732-1.html

Oh wait, MickeyD's is already headed that route in Europe.

When robots become cheaper than demanding low-level employees... Why hire low-level employees?


Are they going to have robots serve the orders, clean the restaurant and take drive-through orders as well?
Fast food is inherently personal service oriented.
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Immoren
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Postby Immoren » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:47 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Saint Kitten wrote:
15 is a lot for just handing out burgers (no offense, have to do what you have to do), I guess if you work there a while a pay raise should be a question but 15 is kinda high


Sure.
And risk horrible burns at the french fry station...
And take shite from customers....
And stink of fried foods
and having to deal with complicated orders and people who change their minds....

It's just a WONDERFUL job. So easy....

Did I mention I knew a manager who got murdered by robbers in a McDonalds? No?

Yeah. It's just handing out burgers.


They obviously should get that...
...what was the English term for that raise on your salary, if your job is more dangerous that normally would be expected?
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Unidox
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Postby Unidox » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:51 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Katganistan wrote:And America used to offer free college educations. Imagine that.


We did?

Why did we stop?

We did, but that was ages ago... Well, Rice College was free up til mid 1990's. However, with some exception to the latter, it should be mentioned free admission was done through scholarships passed out to one gender, of certain backgrounds, and usually had connections.
Pretty, much it colleges stopped with free education circa the Vietnam War. Mostly due to money problems, but there is some question as to if it had to do with gender and race biases. About the same time corporations started to finance colleges too.
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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:54 pm

Saint Kitten wrote:
Grenartia wrote:


Should've put it in the OP, for the benefit of those of us who choose not to read the whole thread.


Not my fault you're too lazy to read the first couple posts. I don't feel obligated to do anything.

Point of order: It's supposed to be in the first post.

Just saying.

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Unidox
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Postby Unidox » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:58 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Grantica wrote:Ha, if they can get it, I guess good for them. Otherwise, their work isn't worth that much.

Actually, the whole thing is absurd. Do they want to be replaced by robots?

http://news.cnet.com/mcdonalds-hires-70 ... 732-1.html

Oh wait, MickeyD's is already headed that route in Europe.

When robots become cheaper than demanding low-level employees... Why hire low-level employees?


Are they going to have robots serve the orders, clean the restaurant and take drive-through orders as well?
Fast food is inherently personal service oriented.

Trust me they are more than just thinking of replacing workers with robots. Thing is bots can't handle the crazies. see link below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lkIVHASh_k
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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:58 pm

Unidox wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
We did?

Why did we stop?

We did, but that was ages ago... Well, Rice College was free up til mid 1990's. However, with some exception to the latter, it should be mentioned free admission was done through scholarships passed out to one gender, of certain backgrounds, and usually had connections.
Pretty, much it colleges stopped with free education circa the Vietnam War. Mostly due to money problems, but there is some question as to if it had to do with gender and race biases. About the same time corporations started to finance colleges too.


I don't know why you call it "free" though.

Your tax dollars go to pay for it.
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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Divair wrote:
Divided America wrote:This is what happens when you don't go to school kids.

Or when you do and you can't pay for it..

What amuses me is the sheer number of spelling and grammatical errors from the folks screaming that this is what you can expect if you don't go to school.

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:05 pm

Unidox wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
Are they going to have robots serve the orders, clean the restaurant and take drive-through orders as well?
Fast food is inherently personal service oriented.

Trust me they are more than just thinking of replacing workers with robots. Thing is bots can't handle the crazies. see link below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lkIVHASh_k


ED-209 would have been the perfect drive-through teller for that moment.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
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If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
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Unidox
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Postby Unidox » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:07 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Unidox wrote:We did, but that was ages ago... Well, Rice College was free up til mid 1990's. However, with some exception to the latter, it should be mentioned free admission was done through scholarships passed out to one gender, of certain backgrounds, and usually had connections.
Pretty, much it colleges stopped with free education circa the Vietnam War. Mostly due to money problems, but there is some question as to if it had to do with gender and race biases. About the same time corporations started to finance colleges too.


I don't know why you call it "free" though.

Your tax dollars go to pay for it.

Not always true. As an coincidental example; Rice college was able to maintain a free education for a long due the fortune William Marsh Rice created and willed to the institute.

Also, I was (we were) talking about the American colleges, not the European system.
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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:11 am

Blasveck wrote:
Unidox wrote:We did, but that was ages ago... Well, Rice College was free up til mid 1990's. However, with some exception to the latter, it should be mentioned free admission was done through scholarships passed out to one gender, of certain backgrounds, and usually had connections.
Pretty, much it colleges stopped with free education circa the Vietnam War. Mostly due to money problems, but there is some question as to if it had to do with gender and race biases. About the same time corporations started to finance colleges too.


I don't know why you call it "free" though.

Your tax dollars go to pay for it.


Not necessarily. It could quite easily be a profitable exercise for the government, once the increased income (and hence taxes) from the graduates is factored in.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:13 am

Katganistan wrote:
Keronians wrote:
America has free primary and secondary education... :eyebrow:

Unless nowadays Americans also refer to universities as schools...

And America used to offer free college educations. Imagine that.

What I don't understand is how your colleges can be so bloody expensive.

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Neo-Mlytoria
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Postby Neo-Mlytoria » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:27 am

Completely replaceable McDonalds workers going on strike will not fix the deep-seated problems with the economic model and doctrines of their biggest worker and consumer base, the USA, or even those of the business itself. Those burger flippers will just get themselves fired and replaced by a new wave, unless McDonalds can be expected to be very generously slow about it and goes into a dangerous employment infrastructure shock-spiral due to this.

To quote a Metallica song: you know it's sad but true.
Last edited by Neo-Mlytoria on Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Enadail
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Postby Enadail » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:38 am

Neo-Mlytoria wrote:Completely replaceable McDonalds workers going on strike will not fix the deep-seated problems with the economic model and doctrines of their biggest worker and consumer base, the USA, or even those of the business itself. Those burger flippers will just get themselves fired and replaced by a new wave, unless McDonalds can be expected to be very generously slow about it and goes into a dangerous employment infrastructure shock-spiral due to this.

To quote a Metallica song: you know it's sad but true.


Um... if all their workers (or lets say all the low paid employees in their stores, I can't call them restaurants) are on strike, how easily, and at what cost, do you think they can replace them? Even a line cook requires some training, you need someone to manage, etc. Its not exactly a switch...

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:52 am

Llamalandia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. Again, most people who get minimum wage don't work full time.

2. I was and still am aware of what you were talking about. Also, telling somebody that if they can't live off of a part time job, they should take a full time one is like telling a starving child to eat more food. Its completely ignorant of the facts and reality of the situation. The simple fact is, the people who are wage slaves to companies like Walmart and McDonalds CAN'T get full time jobs, or else they would've already gotten them.

3A. You shouldn't have to work two jobs just to survive, if for no other reason than general principle. To say nothing of the fact that working two jobs arguably increases wear and tear on one's car and gas expenditures, as well as increasing stress.

3B. What about unplanned children? What about people who had steady, decent-paying jobs when they had kids, but then whose careers went down the toilet? Its not as fucking simple as you think it is.

3C. Exactly. But it was still fucking expensive to begin with.

4. Granted, but still. Without a "suggested tip" listing, or a tip percentage table, its going to hold up the process.

5. Problem is, not everybody tips, and when business is down, you don't get tips at all. Seeing as how without tips, waiters get about $2-3 an hour, I fail to see the benefit.

6. Gotcha.

1. again they should be working full time. I mean why are people suggesting increases in the minimum wage which are likely to further increase unemployment and probably move more people from fulltime to part time status?
2.yeah ok fair point about wear tear stress isuppose, but I mean what are the alternatives. I mean essentially your saying that people who work part time should be paid enough to live and people who work full time should be paid 2x that (im assuming a part time job to be about half a full time one). Why?
3A. General principle? Really i mean i fail to see that principle as being universally shared. also what is the justification of the principle other then your own sense of moral superiority here?
3B. Yeah, don't have unplanned kids (yeah i know rape happens sometimes but were talking in general here) I mean it's a choice at the end of the day.
3C. Yeah, but i'm guessing people found it at least doable to work and go to school at the same time even at minimum wage (doable by no means easy), besides isn't this the reason for scholarships and govt aid and loans?
4. Yeah like i said though keep it simple say like 100% that's about the simplest calculation you'll get. If you don't like the service then just don't tip. Round everything up, i mean it's just not that difficult, not saying it would slow things a little but really i've almost never waited in line myself for more than maybe 5 ten minutes tops at a fast food place (haven't eat at one for a while though i admit).
5. yeah, but i'm guessing genrally most people tip if they were happy with the service (unless they truly can't afford it, in which case they wouldn't have eaten at the place to begin with if the additional costs are factored into food prices. But yeah are there a few jerks in the world who jusst never tip sure, but i'm guessing given the huge volume these places do that actually tipping would work better here and average out to even greater degree then it does in formal dining. :)


1. Again, if they could, they WOULD. But they can't, and they have to take whatever they can get. Also, plenty of other countries have a living wage, and they're doing just fine. To say nothing of the fact that having a part time job that pays a living wage means you don't have to take a second job, thus freeing up the job market for those looking for jobs.

2. Because not doing so disadvantages those who have to work part time.

3A. General principle, in this case, means guaranteeing the American Dream. That if you work hard, you can be able to provide for yourself and your family. Right now, the American Dream is on its deathbed.

3B. Because its as fucking simple as that. :roll: Bullshit. Contraceptives can fail. Kids aren't always a choice, and not solely because of rape.

3C. Back then, minimum wage was at least a living wage. Also, not everybody qualifies for scholarships and loans. Believe it or not, there exists an entire class of people who can't make ends meet, who, when trying to get ANY sort of government aid, fall through the cracks, because they "make too much".

4. Well, there is one more criticism (in addition to the extreme reduction of wages), and that is that 100%+ tips effectively drives up the price of menu items. While the tip IS optional, its simple common fucking courtesy to tip (at least in America, because we know that the people we tip fucking DEPEND on those tips), meaning that they're left with the choice to either spend twice as much, or not go there at all. Meaning that the employees will see not only a drastic reduction in wages, but also in income.

5. As I said above, tipping is rather expected, if nothing else but common courtesy. Even if the service is bad, you're expected to tip at least 15%, with extremely good service earning 20%.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:54 am

Fireye wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Source.

You made the claim that they'll work better with higher wages. Burden of proof's on you.


Its simple logic. More money equals more incentive. More incentive means more people giving better service.
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Xsyne
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Postby Xsyne » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:54 am

Immoren wrote:
Katganistan wrote:
Sure.
And risk horrible burns at the french fry station...
And take shite from customers....
And stink of fried foods
and having to deal with complicated orders and people who change their minds....

It's just a WONDERFUL job. So easy....

Did I mention I knew a manager who got murdered by robbers in a McDonalds? No?

Yeah. It's just handing out burgers.


They obviously should get that...
...what was the English term for that raise on your salary, if your job is more dangerous that normally would be expected?

Hazard pay.
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Neo-Mlytoria
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Postby Neo-Mlytoria » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:57 am

Enadail wrote:Um... if all their workers (or lets say all the low paid employees in their stores, I can't call them restaurants) are on strike, how easily, and at what cost, do you think they can replace them? Even a line cook requires some training, you need someone to manage, etc. Its not exactly a switch...
A good point, it will indeed cost money in many ways I'm sure I can't personally account for or even think of, but with the billions McDonalds has just essentially sitting around in its company bank account, they can take the hit, and I'm pretty sure they know damn well that it won't have as much of a long-term cut into their profit margin as liberating their workers from wage slavery would.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:01 am

Immoren wrote:
Katganistan wrote:
Sure.
And risk horrible burns at the french fry station...
And take shite from customers....
And stink of fried foods
and having to deal with complicated orders and people who change their minds....

It's just a WONDERFUL job. So easy....

Did I mention I knew a manager who got murdered by robbers in a McDonalds? No?

Yeah. It's just handing out burgers.


They obviously should get that...
...what was the English term for that raise on your salary, if your job is more dangerous that normally would be expected?


Hazard pay?

Esternial wrote:
Katganistan wrote:And America used to offer free college educations. Imagine that.

What I don't understand is how your colleges can be so bloody expensive.


Probably because you NEED a college education to live anything other than a life of poverty.
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Enadail
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Postby Enadail » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:25 am

Neo-Mlytoria wrote:
Enadail wrote:Um... if all their workers (or lets say all the low paid employees in their stores, I can't call them restaurants) are on strike, how easily, and at what cost, do you think they can replace them? Even a line cook requires some training, you need someone to manage, etc. Its not exactly a switch...
A good point, it will indeed cost money in many ways I'm sure I can't personally account for or even think of, but with the billions McDonalds has just essentially sitting around in its company bank account, they can take the hit, and I'm pretty sure they know damn well that it won't have as much of a long-term cut into their profit margin as liberating their workers from wage slavery would.


Because the new employees, once in the situation, won't strike...? And because they'll jump on jobs they know will barely pay enough to feed themselves, let alone their families?

It seems a bit outlandish in practicality.

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