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[PASSED] Liberate South Pacific

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Goddess Relief Office
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[PASSED] Liberate South Pacific

Postby Goddess Relief Office » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:14 am

No... not The South Pacific, but South Pacific.

They've been under occupation for a while now, and natives have been banned. All of their embassies had been forcefully closed.

South Pacific is one of the oldest regions on NationStates. Along with regions like SPACE and Yorkshire, SP was founded before the time "Founders" were introduced into the game in 2003. There's not a lot of those regions left...I don't want to see another one destroyed.

The following draft has been approved by two long-time SP delegates. They have urged me to submit as soon as possible, before it is too late.


Liberate "South Pacific"
Category: Liberation | Nominee: South Pacific


The Security Council,


NOTING that South Pacific is one of the oldest regions in the world, created before the time of Founders,

FURTHER NOTING that these regions are now a dwindling minority and thus carry a special historical significance -- a significance that makes them prime targets of invasion,

DISMAYED that The Black Hawks, with the aid of Unknown, The Black Riders, Kantrias, Ainur, and The New Inquisition, invaded South Pacific on January 13, 2013,

ALARMED that the invader takeover has led to the displacement of at least 10 natives from their rightful abode, including but not limited to Agima, Imearia, Landuode, New Zealand and Australia, Slit, Sundanesia, Negim, South Spratly Islands, Tupa, and Kalo,

CONCERNED that the remaining natives could share the same fate,

NOTING that the invaders shows no willingness to end the siege, with the increasing likeliness of turning South Pacific into a permanent colony to add to the ranks of existing regions already destroyed by The Black Hawks,

FURTHER NOTING The Black Hawks's history of destroying regions it invades, for which it was condemned by Security Council Resolution #52, and fearing South Pacific might follow the fate of destroyed regions such as Novus Orsa, Hethrum, Nationstates Communist Party, League of the Scaro Alliance, Global Commonwealth, Mare Unae, and others,

RESOLVED to oppose tyranny and bring world attention to the plight of South Pacific, and noting that natives such as previous delegates Densaner and Dorig have indicated their desire for a Liberation,

HEREBY LIBERATES South Pacific.

Last edited by Goddess Relief Office on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:18 am, edited 6 times in total.
Keeper of The World Tree - Yggdrasil
General Assembly:
GA#053 - Epidemic Response Act
GA#163 - Repeal LOTS
GA#223 - Transboundary Water Use Act

Security Council:
SC#030 - Commend 10000 Islands (co-author)
SC#044 - Commend Texas (co-author)
SC#066 - Repeal "Liberate Wonderful Paradise"
SC#108 - Liberate South Pacific
SC#135 - Liberate Anarchy (co-author)
SC#139 - Repeal "Liberate South Pacific"

Former delegate and retired defender
Nice links for easy reference:
Passed WA Resolutions | GA Resolutions (sorted by category) | GA Rules

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United Federation of Canada
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Ex-Nation

Postby United Federation of Canada » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:15 am

The United Federation of Canada supports this proposal 100%, and looks forward to voting yes on it.

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Sedgistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:17 am

You're not allowed a list of supporters/sponsors like that. If you could work it into the text of the proposal (eg "Noting that natives such as previous delegates Densaner and Dorig have indicated their desire for a Liberation") it'd be fine.

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Vladisvok Destino
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Postby Vladisvok Destino » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:24 am

Not really a fan of pre-emptive liberations, on the other hand if it's what the natives want...

Is there any evidence to back up the claim of support?
When plumbing the depths of depravity, I must remember to come up for air.

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Goddess Relief Office
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Postby Goddess Relief Office » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:26 am

Sedgistan wrote:You're not allowed a list of supporters/sponsors like that. If you could work it into the text of the proposal (eg "Noting that natives such as previous delegates Densaner and Dorig have indicated their desire for a Liberation") it'd be fine.


@Sedge: There are examples of that happening in the SC though:
SC#41 http://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pas ... 2?start=40
SC#66 http://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pas ... 2?start=65

But sure, I'll just amend it if it's a new ruling. No problemo. 8)
Keeper of The World Tree - Yggdrasil
General Assembly:
GA#053 - Epidemic Response Act
GA#163 - Repeal LOTS
GA#223 - Transboundary Water Use Act

Security Council:
SC#030 - Commend 10000 Islands (co-author)
SC#044 - Commend Texas (co-author)
SC#066 - Repeal "Liberate Wonderful Paradise"
SC#108 - Liberate South Pacific
SC#135 - Liberate Anarchy (co-author)
SC#139 - Repeal "Liberate South Pacific"

Former delegate and retired defender
Nice links for easy reference:
Passed WA Resolutions | GA Resolutions (sorted by category) | GA Rules

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Sedgistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:32 am

Hmm... precedent is as per here. I guess it's not an official ruling that it's illegal to list sponsors, just something that's considered inappropriate. If you want that line as is, you can keep it, but it's generally discouraged.

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Goddess Relief Office
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Postby Goddess Relief Office » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:52 am

Vladisvok Destino wrote:Not really a fan of pre-emptive liberations, on the other hand if it's what the natives want...

Is there any evidence to back up the claim of support?

Fair enough, I'll telegram you.

Sedgistan wrote:Hmm... precedent is as per here. I guess it's not an official ruling that it's illegal to list sponsors, just something that's considered inappropriate. If you want that line as is, you can keep it, but it's generally discouraged.

Edits have been made.
Keeper of The World Tree - Yggdrasil
General Assembly:
GA#053 - Epidemic Response Act
GA#163 - Repeal LOTS
GA#223 - Transboundary Water Use Act

Security Council:
SC#030 - Commend 10000 Islands (co-author)
SC#044 - Commend Texas (co-author)
SC#066 - Repeal "Liberate Wonderful Paradise"
SC#108 - Liberate South Pacific
SC#135 - Liberate Anarchy (co-author)
SC#139 - Repeal "Liberate South Pacific"

Former delegate and retired defender
Nice links for easy reference:
Passed WA Resolutions | GA Resolutions (sorted by category) | GA Rules

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Eist
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Postby Eist » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:55 am

Because SP is one of the rare true-founderless UCRs, I would never advocate for a refounding.

To prevent the possibly of region destruction in light of the fact the region will not be more secure, I would vote for this.
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The Pacistien Republic
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Postby The Pacistien Republic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:19 am

Hey GRO, I believe it should be duly noted in the proposal that they are:

"Home Of The Most Feared Military Organisation In NationStates."

Moreover, I kinda did research on these guys this morning by looking through there embassies. They proably will be invade anyone who supports this bill. So you know. Y'all should be careful.
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Jamie Anumia
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Postby Jamie Anumia » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:33 am

Any particular reason why natives can't state their support here?

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Eist
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Postby Eist » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:42 am

Jamie Anumia wrote:Any particular reason why natives can't state their support here?


This is supported by former long-time delegates Densaner, and Dorig. You could ask them to comment here if you like.
Unibot III wrote:Frankly, the lows that people sink to in this game is perhaps the most disturbing thing about NationStates Gameplay.

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The Pacistien Republic
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Postby The Pacistien Republic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:44 am

Jamie Anumia wrote:Any particular reason why natives can't state their support here?


Their busy? I mean their region just got invaded, you can't really expect them to have any say in this.

Especially since that would be the job of the founder. Or a WA delegate

This is supported by former long-time delegates Densaner, and Dorig. You could ask them to comment here if you like.


Alright. See they already gave their support. Though I don't know what they would comment on, GRO did pretty much all the work here.
Last edited by The Pacistien Republic on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Take thou what course thou wilt
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Vladisvok Destino
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Postby Vladisvok Destino » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:49 am

The Pacistien Republic wrote:Their busy? I mean their region just got invaded, you can't really expect them to have any say in this.

Especially since that would be the job of the founder. Or a WA delegate


Why would it be the founder or delegates job? A liberation proposal affects the whole region so it's hardly unreasonable to ask if they support it or not.

Alright. See they already gave their support. Though I don't know what they would comment on, GRO did pretty much all the work here.


The author says they gave their support, that does not automatically mean the same thing. The bolded section is quite interesting to be honest, it seems you're not actually interested at all in whether the region wants to be liberated or not and more just giving GRO another author badge.
Last edited by Vladisvok Destino on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
When plumbing the depths of depravity, I must remember to come up for air.

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Jamie Anumia
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Postby Jamie Anumia » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:51 am

Eist wrote:
Jamie Anumia wrote:Any particular reason why natives can't state their support here?


This is supported by former long-time delegates Densaner, and Dorig. You could ask them to comment here if you like.

I could. I'm just sceptical by the lack of comments in the first place.

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The Pacistien Republic
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Postby The Pacistien Republic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:55 am

Vladisvok Destino wrote:
The Pacistien Republic wrote:Their busy? I mean their region just got invaded, you can't really expect them to have any say in this.


Especially since that would be the job of the founder. Or a WA delegate


Why would it be the founder or delegates job? A liberation proposal affects the whole region so it's hardly unreasonable to ask if they support it or not.




The reason it would be a delegate/ founders job is because they are the leader of the region. As the leader their input is especially valuable because it's generally backed by the entire region.

Alright. See they already gave their support. Though I don't know what they would comment on, GRO did pretty much all the work here.


The author says they gave their support, that does not automatically mean the same thing. The bolded section is quite interesting to be honest, it seems you're not actually interested at all in whether the region wants to be liberated or not and more just giving GRO another author badge.


The proposal is written. When it's submitted it will be voted on, pass or fail. Gro wrote said proposal. So short of South Pacific saying, let it be and let our region die, GRO would have put in the most effort here.
Last edited by The Pacistien Republic on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Now let it work. Mischeif thou art afoot,
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Vladisvok Destino
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Postby Vladisvok Destino » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:09 am

The Pacistien Republic wrote:The reason it would be a delegate/ founders job is because they are the leader of the region. As the leader their input is especially valuable because it's generally backed by the entire region.


I agree that it is a useful voice, but again when a proposal affects an entire region in the way a liberation does is it that unreasonable to ask what those in the region think of it?

The proposal is written. When it's submitted it will be voted on, pass or fail. Gro wrote said proposal. So short of South Pacific saying, let it be and let our region die, GRO would have put in the most effort here.


Nobody is questioning the effort that GRO has put in, however again you are either missing or deliberately avoiding the point which is this:

Do the natives of the region support a pre-emptive liberation?

If they do, then people are more likely to vote in favour of it. Why are you so opposed to a simple action which would strengthen your case?
When plumbing the depths of depravity, I must remember to come up for air.

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The Pacistien Republic
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Postby The Pacistien Republic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:16 am

Vladisvok Destino wrote:
The Pacistien Republic wrote:The reason it would be a delegate/ founders job is because they are the leader of the region. As the leader their input is especially valuable because it's generally backed by the entire region.


I agree that it is a useful voice, but again when a proposal affects an entire region in the way a liberation does is it that unreasonable to ask what those in the region think of it?

The proposal is written. When it's submitted it will be voted on, pass or fail. Gro wrote said proposal. So short of South Pacific saying, let it be and let our region die, GRO would have put in the most effort here.


Nobody is questioning the effort that GRO has put in, however again you are either missing or deliberately avoiding the point which is this:

Do the natives of the region support a pre-emptive liberation?

If they do, then people are more likely to vote in favour of it. Why are you so opposed to a simple action which would strengthen your case?



I wouldn't say i'm opposed to it, I just feel it is unnecessary. Sure there input would be nice, but really all we need is their delgates okay, and quite frankly I doubt anyone one of them is just hoping that there region would fall.

Listen my point is that even if you say we should ask, we already know what there answer would be. Technically we would just be wastng time for a simple "No I don't like the fact that my region was invaded, please fix it".
Last edited by The Pacistien Republic on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yggdrasil

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Now let it work. Mischeif thou art afoot,
Take thou what course thou wilt
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Goddess Relief Office
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Postby Goddess Relief Office » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:17 am

@Jamie and Vladisvok:
This thread was created just a few hours ago. I have asked those two to visit this thread and post in here. Maybe give them some time to login and respond?
Keeper of The World Tree - Yggdrasil
General Assembly:
GA#053 - Epidemic Response Act
GA#163 - Repeal LOTS
GA#223 - Transboundary Water Use Act

Security Council:
SC#030 - Commend 10000 Islands (co-author)
SC#044 - Commend Texas (co-author)
SC#066 - Repeal "Liberate Wonderful Paradise"
SC#108 - Liberate South Pacific
SC#135 - Liberate Anarchy (co-author)
SC#139 - Repeal "Liberate South Pacific"

Former delegate and retired defender
Nice links for easy reference:
Passed WA Resolutions | GA Resolutions (sorted by category) | GA Rules

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Vladisvok Destino
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Postby Vladisvok Destino » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:19 am

The Pacistien Republic wrote:I wouldn't say i'm opposed to it, I just feel it is unnecessary. Sure there input would be nice, but really all we need is their delgates okay, and quite frankly I doubt anyone one of them is just hoping that there region would fall.


Except that there is no particular evidence that the region is going to fall, the raiders at present have not put in place a password and a brief skim over the RMB I didn't spot them saying they're going to (if there is some evidence they're planning to put a password in place please do feel free to link me to it.)

Listen my point is that even if you say we should ask we already know what there answer would be. Technically we would just be wastng time for a simple "No I don't like the fact that my region was invaded, please fix it".


Except that you aren't fixing it, all a liberation does is stop the raiders putting a password in place (something they haven't done yet.) They're still free to sit there as long as they like and kick as many natives as they please whether or not a liberation is in place.

@GRO I'm quite happy to wait and see if natives of South Pacific come out in support of this, it seems to be your own member who is opposed to the idea.
Last edited by Vladisvok Destino on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Pacistien Republic
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Postby The Pacistien Republic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:34 am

Vladisvok Destino wrote:
The Pacistien Republic wrote:I wouldn't say i'm opposed to it, I just feel it is unnecessary. Sure there input would be nice, but really all we need is their delgates okay, and quite frankly I doubt anyone one of them is just hoping that there region would fall.


Except that there is no particular evidence that the region is going to fall, the raiders at present have not put in place a password and a brief skim over the RMB I didn't spot them saying they're going to (if there is some evidence they're planning to put a password in place please do feel free to link me to it.)

Listen my point is that even if you say we should ask we already know what there answer would be. Technically we would just be wastng time for a simple "No I don't like the fact that my region was invaded, please fix it".


Except that you aren't fixing it, all a liberation does is stop the raiders putting a password in place (something they haven't done yet.) They're still free to sit there as long as they like and kick as many natives as they please whether or not a liberation is in place.

@GRO I'm quite happy to wait and see if natives of South Pacific come out in support of this, it seems to be your own member who is opposed to the idea.


Say what you will, I am through arguing with you.

@GRO Alright, i'm okay with waiting for them.
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Dorig
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Postby Dorig » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:53 am

Vladisvok Destino wrote:Not really a fan of pre-emptive liberations, on the other hand if it's what the natives want...

Is there any evidence to back up the claim of support?


As the former WA Delegate, I can say I wholeheartedly support this liberation.

Dorig

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:02 am

I suggest this addition:

CONCERNED that the remaining natives could share the same fate, but regardless, a WA Liberation of South Pacific could not be harmful to South Pacific and at the very least serves as a preventative measure; since it is one of the few historically-founderless regions, South Pacific has no intention to refound,


If one has the best interests of South Pacific at heart there is no justification in the hesitancy against 'preventative' measures. The hesitancy is a product of invader propaganda in The Security Council -- they have told us time and time again that one must wait for a password to be placed on the region (when it is nearly too late to save the region anyways). But that doesn't make much sense at all. A preventative measure is a precaution that serves to help the native community regardless of if -this- particular threat blows over -- for that exact reason, Belgium has not requested a repeal of their WA Liberation.

I stand in favor of this resolution and will urge fellow defenders, friends and colleagues to support this measure. South Pacific needs all the help it can get.

Thank you,
Uni.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Milograd
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Postby Milograd » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:19 am

Goddess Relief Office wrote:No... not The South Pacific, but South Pacific.

Oh! :p

I wholeheartedly support this and will be encouraging my colleagues to do the same.
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Lyanna Stark
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lyanna Stark » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:20 am

I'm a bit -meh- about pre-emptive liberations but the reasoning in this case definitely makes sense. This looks great, GRO. :)
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Postby Hileville » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:21 am

I am in full support of this resolution and agree with Uni's suggested addition.
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