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American Catholics(both libreal and conservative) disobey...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Godwinsplot
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 62
Founded: Dec 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Banning order.

Postby Godwinsplot » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:12 am

Equals our collective votes to ban the Catholic Church on the following grounds:

1. It isn't Christian - it treats women and gay people as second class.
2. It isn't a Church - Jesus said 'The Church of God is within you'.
3. It isn't fun - apart from Father Ted.
4. It doesn't give discounts to regular customers - apart from pedophile priests.
5. See above.

Syndicated throughout.

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61121
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:55 pm

The Free and Just Republic of Freedomol wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Tell me, how is contraception against the spiritual well-being of people?

I'll answer this in two ways. the first one in that, as I said before, not using contreceptive would imply a greater faith in "god's plan for you" or however you choose to put it. more faith=less chance of eternal damnation. the second way to answer this is that god could choose to define contraceptives as bad as a test. I know that statement is overused, but tests imposed by god to weed out people with less faith would be a logical process to keep only those with the most faith, and they are, in fact, canon.

Attention, ladies and germs.

You heard it here first:

It's good for you spiritually to trust in God's plan, so avoid those seatbelts, hard hats, and life jackets. Wearing them shows you lack trust in God's plan for you.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Tekania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21356
Founded: May 26, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tekania » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:36 am

Galloism wrote:
The Free and Just Republic of Freedomol wrote: I'll answer this in two ways. the first one in that, as I said before, not using contreceptive would imply a greater faith in "god's plan for you" or however you choose to put it. more faith=less chance of eternal damnation. the second way to answer this is that god could choose to define contraceptives as bad as a test. I know that statement is overused, but tests imposed by god to weed out people with less faith would be a logical process to keep only those with the most faith, and they are, in fact, canon.

Attention, ladies and germs.

You heard it here first:

It's good for you spiritually to trust in God's plan, so avoid those seatbelts, hard hats, and life jackets. Wearing them shows you lack trust in God's plan for you.


That's pretty much what it comes down to. Of course they won't apply such consistently.
Such heroic nonsense!

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Disserbia
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Posts: 12012
Founded: Dec 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Disserbia » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:55 am

I thought Catholics went 60-40 for Obama.
Conservative Catholics ignore the teachings of Second Vatican Council

That's quite the generalization.

If there is anything that is universally true about Catholicism it's that you can never win. We have an expression for this, but its not appropriate for many reasons. :lol:
You can't spell scat fetish without catfish.
Mollary wrote:Hate and alcohol can unite most people.

Souriya Al-Assad wrote:One does not simply Mossad The Assad.

New Maldorainia wrote:Dissy likes touching my walruses.

The Blaatschapen wrote:Remember, birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you'll live.
Funniest shit on this shite
fakbuk and other random shit
PC:
Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.00
PS:
Right: 1.45
Libertarian: 6.22
Non-interventionist: 5.82
Cultural liberal: 2.23
PT:
democratic National Liberal
In a more sane world I'd be a moderate Republican.

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The Realm of God
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Posts: 7562
Founded: Jan 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Realm of God » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:59 am

No like me they realise that Liberty and Equality means secularism and any attempt to spread religious morality by law is evil. By all means follow your religion but do not legislate it!
British, Orthodox Christian, humanist and stoic.

Pro. Disraelian Progressive Conservatism, One Nation Toryism, Distributionism, Civil Liberties, Pro UK, Pro US Constitution. Pro USA.

Progressive Conservative Economic Right: 0.38 Social Libertarian -2.00.

Christian Democrat NSG Senate.

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Disserbia
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Posts: 12012
Founded: Dec 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Disserbia » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:03 am

The Realm of God wrote:No like me they realise that Liberty and Equality means secularism and any attempt to spread religious morality by law is evil. By all means follow your religion but do not legislate it!

What about the healthcare bit...
You can't spell scat fetish without catfish.
Mollary wrote:Hate and alcohol can unite most people.

Souriya Al-Assad wrote:One does not simply Mossad The Assad.

New Maldorainia wrote:Dissy likes touching my walruses.

The Blaatschapen wrote:Remember, birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you'll live.
Funniest shit on this shite
fakbuk and other random shit
PC:
Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.00
PS:
Right: 1.45
Libertarian: 6.22
Non-interventionist: 5.82
Cultural liberal: 2.23
PT:
democratic National Liberal
In a more sane world I'd be a moderate Republican.

User avatar
The Realm of God
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7562
Founded: Jan 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Realm of God » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:13 am

Disserbia wrote:
The Realm of God wrote:No like me they realise that Liberty and Equality means secularism and any attempt to spread religious morality by law is evil. By all means follow your religion but do not legislate it!

What about the healthcare bit...


You can choose to have an abortion or to get a packet of condoms no one is forcing you too. The requirement to offer medical services is in no way infringing on freedom of concious.
British, Orthodox Christian, humanist and stoic.

Pro. Disraelian Progressive Conservatism, One Nation Toryism, Distributionism, Civil Liberties, Pro UK, Pro US Constitution. Pro USA.

Progressive Conservative Economic Right: 0.38 Social Libertarian -2.00.

Christian Democrat NSG Senate.

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Disserbia
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Posts: 12012
Founded: Dec 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Disserbia » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:25 am

The Realm of God wrote:
Disserbia wrote:What about the healthcare bit...


You can choose to have an abortion or to get a packet of condoms no one is forcing you too. The requirement to offer medical services is in no way infringing on freedom of concious.

So theoretically, should one refuse or not if they are required?

I agree with you btw...
Last edited by Disserbia on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
You can't spell scat fetish without catfish.
Mollary wrote:Hate and alcohol can unite most people.

Souriya Al-Assad wrote:One does not simply Mossad The Assad.

New Maldorainia wrote:Dissy likes touching my walruses.

The Blaatschapen wrote:Remember, birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you'll live.
Funniest shit on this shite
fakbuk and other random shit
PC:
Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.00
PS:
Right: 1.45
Libertarian: 6.22
Non-interventionist: 5.82
Cultural liberal: 2.23
PT:
democratic National Liberal
In a more sane world I'd be a moderate Republican.

User avatar
The Realm of God
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7562
Founded: Jan 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Realm of God » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:33 am

Disserbia wrote:
The Realm of God wrote:
You can choose to have an abortion or to get a packet of condoms no one is forcing you too. The requirement to offer medical services is in no way infringing on freedom of concious.

So theoretically, should one refuse or not if they are required?

I agree with you btw...


None should refuse anyone the treatment they are required to give them. Since the medical professionals in question are Catholic they should "Do unto others what they wish to be done unto them."
British, Orthodox Christian, humanist and stoic.

Pro. Disraelian Progressive Conservatism, One Nation Toryism, Distributionism, Civil Liberties, Pro UK, Pro US Constitution. Pro USA.

Progressive Conservative Economic Right: 0.38 Social Libertarian -2.00.

Christian Democrat NSG Senate.

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Disserbia
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Posts: 12012
Founded: Dec 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Disserbia » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:35 am

The Realm of God wrote:
Disserbia wrote:So theoretically, should one refuse or not if they are required?

I agree with you btw...


None should refuse anyone the treatment they are required to give them. Since the medical professionals in question are Catholic they should "Do unto others what they wish to be done unto them."

That leaves some room for interpretation I think.
You can't spell scat fetish without catfish.
Mollary wrote:Hate and alcohol can unite most people.

Souriya Al-Assad wrote:One does not simply Mossad The Assad.

New Maldorainia wrote:Dissy likes touching my walruses.

The Blaatschapen wrote:Remember, birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you'll live.
Funniest shit on this shite
fakbuk and other random shit
PC:
Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.00
PS:
Right: 1.45
Libertarian: 6.22
Non-interventionist: 5.82
Cultural liberal: 2.23
PT:
democratic National Liberal
In a more sane world I'd be a moderate Republican.

User avatar
The Realm of God
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7562
Founded: Jan 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Realm of God » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:38 am

Disserbia wrote:
The Realm of God wrote:
None should refuse anyone the treatment they are required to give them. Since the medical professionals in question are Catholic they should "Do unto others what they wish to be done unto them."

That leaves some room for interpretation I think.


I am sure if they begged for medical services they would want someone to treat them, don't you think.
British, Orthodox Christian, humanist and stoic.

Pro. Disraelian Progressive Conservatism, One Nation Toryism, Distributionism, Civil Liberties, Pro UK, Pro US Constitution. Pro USA.

Progressive Conservative Economic Right: 0.38 Social Libertarian -2.00.

Christian Democrat NSG Senate.

User avatar
Disserbia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12012
Founded: Dec 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Disserbia » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:41 am

The Realm of God wrote:
Disserbia wrote:That leaves some room for interpretation I think.


I am sure if they begged for medical services they would want someone to treat them, don't you think.

Yeah, but this reminds me a bit of when you ask a friend to stop you from doing something in advance.
You can't spell scat fetish without catfish.
Mollary wrote:Hate and alcohol can unite most people.

Souriya Al-Assad wrote:One does not simply Mossad The Assad.

New Maldorainia wrote:Dissy likes touching my walruses.

The Blaatschapen wrote:Remember, birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you'll live.
Funniest shit on this shite
fakbuk and other random shit
PC:
Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.00
PS:
Right: 1.45
Libertarian: 6.22
Non-interventionist: 5.82
Cultural liberal: 2.23
PT:
democratic National Liberal
In a more sane world I'd be a moderate Republican.

User avatar
The Realm of God
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7562
Founded: Jan 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Realm of God » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:48 am

Disserbia wrote:
The Realm of God wrote:
I am sure if they begged for medical services they would want someone to treat them, don't you think.

Yeah, but this reminds me a bit of when you ask a friend to stop you from doing something in advance.


It's a complex issue because people are people. I am empathetic to the point where things like that do not cross my mind. I'm also one of those people who will go out of his way not to offend anyone. Some people are much more logical thinkers.

Still I think doctors should put aside there religious morality when treating patients. If they think they have done something wrong? That's why we have confession.
British, Orthodox Christian, humanist and stoic.

Pro. Disraelian Progressive Conservatism, One Nation Toryism, Distributionism, Civil Liberties, Pro UK, Pro US Constitution. Pro USA.

Progressive Conservative Economic Right: 0.38 Social Libertarian -2.00.

Christian Democrat NSG Senate.

User avatar
Disserbia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12012
Founded: Dec 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Disserbia » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:51 am

The Realm of God wrote:
Disserbia wrote:Yeah, but this reminds me a bit of when you ask a friend to stop you from doing something in advance.


It's a complex issue because people are people. I am empathetic to the point where things like that do not cross my mind. I'm also one of those people who will go out of his way not to offend anyone. Some people are much more logical thinkers.

Still I think doctors should put aside there religious morality when treating patients. If they think they have done something wrong? That's why we have confession.

Yeah the conflict between doing earthly good and heavenly good is complicated.
You can't spell scat fetish without catfish.
Mollary wrote:Hate and alcohol can unite most people.

Souriya Al-Assad wrote:One does not simply Mossad The Assad.

New Maldorainia wrote:Dissy likes touching my walruses.

The Blaatschapen wrote:Remember, birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you'll live.
Funniest shit on this shite
fakbuk and other random shit
PC:
Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.00
PS:
Right: 1.45
Libertarian: 6.22
Non-interventionist: 5.82
Cultural liberal: 2.23
PT:
democratic National Liberal
In a more sane world I'd be a moderate Republican.

User avatar
The Realm of God
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7562
Founded: Jan 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Realm of God » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:53 am

Disserbia wrote:
The Realm of God wrote:
It's a complex issue because people are people. I am empathetic to the point where things like that do not cross my mind. I'm also one of those people who will go out of his way not to offend anyone. Some people are much more logical thinkers.

Still I think doctors should put aside there religious morality when treating patients. If they think they have done something wrong? That's why we have confession.

Yeah the conflict between doing earthly good and heavenly good is complicated.


Well that's why we have.....*looks at flag*......Ecumenical Jedi?
British, Orthodox Christian, humanist and stoic.

Pro. Disraelian Progressive Conservatism, One Nation Toryism, Distributionism, Civil Liberties, Pro UK, Pro US Constitution. Pro USA.

Progressive Conservative Economic Right: 0.38 Social Libertarian -2.00.

Christian Democrat NSG Senate.

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Phocidaea
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5316
Founded: Jul 21, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Phocidaea » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:34 pm

Of course.

I always wondered why American Catholics haven't already split off and made the American Catholic church, given the vastly different views many have on both theology and especially on politics compared with Rome.
Call me Phoca.
Senator [Unknown] of the Liberal Democrats in NSG Senate.
Je suis Charlie: Because your feels don't justify murder.

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Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:41 pm

Phocidaea wrote:Of course.

I always wondered why American Catholics haven't already split off and made the American Catholic church, given the vastly different views many have on both theology and especially on politics compared with Rome.

because that wouldnt be the one true church established by jesus christ.
whatever

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Phocidaea
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5316
Founded: Jul 21, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Phocidaea » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:29 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
Phocidaea wrote:Of course.

I always wondered why American Catholics haven't already split off and made the American Catholic church, given the vastly different views many have on both theology and especially on politics compared with Rome.

because that wouldnt be the one true church established by jesus christ.


But Martin Luther did something very similar, and his views were even closer to prevailing Catholic policy than those of many modern American Catholics.
Call me Phoca.
Senator [Unknown] of the Liberal Democrats in NSG Senate.
Je suis Charlie: Because your feels don't justify murder.

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Geilinor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41328
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:56 pm

It's the Protestants that majority voted for Romney.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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Capitolinium
Diplomat
 
Posts: 713
Founded: Jul 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Capitolinium » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:41 pm

Norstal wrote:
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
No, I am asking that why can someone say they agree with everything the Church teaches and they don't.

So if you're a Christian, you have to agree with everything Christ did? I'm pretty sure if I slapped a Christian, they'd slap me back and not slap their other cheek.


It depends on the circumstances. There has been quite a lot of debate on that particular bit of scripture over the centuries: what constitutes a slap a literal or figurative slap? How many slaps - one slap or an endless number? If an endless number, where does the right to defend oneself come in or must someone always allow themselves to be beaten without resistance? Etc.
"The world is grown so bad, that wrens make prey where eagles dare not perch." -Shakespeare, Richard III

Vexillum Capitolini

Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.62

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Capitolinium
Diplomat
 
Posts: 713
Founded: Jul 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Capitolinium » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:55 pm

Phocidaea wrote:Of course.

I always wondered why American Catholics haven't already split off and made the American Catholic church, given the vastly different views many have on both theology and especially on politics compared with Rome.


No different than Europeans having differences with the Church, and they're in much closer proximity.

A lot of the posters in this thread are forgetting that the Church is 2000 years old. It's weathered one or two more serious crises than disobedient Americans or (gasp!) the disapproval of children and young adults on the Nations States Forum.
"The world is grown so bad, that wrens make prey where eagles dare not perch." -Shakespeare, Richard III

Vexillum Capitolini

Economic Left/Right: 3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.62

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