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Martial courage

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:26 am

Infantry have to put up with being under near-constant threat of death or dismemberment while on patrol.
Pilots have to worry about ground-to-air missiles and stuff.
The navy is probably fine, unless we face a nation with a decent navy. At which point the world is probably 5 kinds of fucked anyway since that'd mean a war between Developed powers.

The MASS PRODUCTION of tools-for-war removed the need for skill in the individual combattent.
Then we went ahead and made them skilled anyway. So, modern soldiers have courage and skill. But in the event of a proper war and not some very basic skirmishing/campaigns? You don't need the skill. people kitted out the same as a professional soldier, taught very basically how to fire the weapon, and given an OFFICERS with skill, will be almost as good as a regular army. And you can crank them out faster. This simply wasn't the case in medieval times, where societies which lived by the bow or sword, pretty much dominated the battlefield until the invention of the crossbow, the prototypical mass-produced tool of war.

So skill isn't reallllly a component of modern warfare as such.
But courage? Definatlely. Especially in the scenario where we need to have a draft again
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Xeng He
Minister
 
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Founded: Nov 14, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Xeng He » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:30 am

Dracoria wrote:Hard to quantify, partially due to courage being in different areas now. Combat today is much more through guerilla and surprise tactics, long-ranged and explosive devices that may come anywhere rather than organized line battles. Chances of survival are overall much higher, but death and maiming may come at any second, whether due to an IED, a sniper's bullet, or a missile hitting your barracks while you sleep. I'd say rules of engagement should make things easier, but they only help so long as the other guys are the ones following them.



^This is basically what I think.
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The Pacistien Republic
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Founded: Oct 19, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Pacistien Republic » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:32 am

War...is tough.

Wether it's mediaval or modern.

So i would say they are equal

however i believe that the people of old had more of chance to die a more gruesome death.
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CTALNH
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Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:35 am

The Pacistien Republic wrote:however i believe that the people of old had more of chance to die a more gruesome death.

They had nerve gas back then too?
Or explosives?
Or things that could shred you to small tiny bits?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
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Wallonochia
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Founded: Jul 21, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Wallonochia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:35 am

Selegnia wrote:I think that the last "real" war the world suffered was WW2, and soldiers then needed even more courage than in ancient wars due to the brutal amount of casualties. Even in Vietnam, your guys needed to be very brave to carry on. Most wars now consist on bombing 3rd world countries to hell, and I suppose that Jimmy the pilot doesn't need to be as brave as little Fritz and little Vladimir when they were killing each other with bayonets in a ruined building back in 1942.


What exactly do you mean by "real" war here? Do you mean industrialized states slugging it out with conventional armies? There have been a number of those since WWII.

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Jagalonia
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Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jagalonia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:38 am

CTALNH wrote:
The Pacistien Republic wrote:however i believe that the people of old had more of chance to die a more gruesome death.

They had nerve gas back then too?
Or explosives?
Or things that could shred you to small tiny bits?

All that, and guns that can turn you into a fine pink mist.
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

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CTALNH
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Founded: Jul 18, 2010
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Postby CTALNH » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:41 am

Jagalonia wrote:
CTALNH wrote:They had nerve gas back then too?
Or explosives?
Or things that could shred you to small tiny bits?

All that, and guns that can turn you into a fine pink mist.

Wait guns existed before the industrial revolution?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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Jagalonia
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Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jagalonia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:43 am

CTALNH wrote:
Jagalonia wrote:All that, and guns that can turn you into a fine pink mist.

Wait guns existed before the industrial revolution?

Well...Gunpowder existed since ~100AD, so I don't see why not... :P
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

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Selegnia
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Posts: 128
Founded: Oct 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Selegnia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:45 am

Wallonochia wrote:
Selegnia wrote:I think that the last "real" war the world suffered was WW2, and soldiers then needed even more courage than in ancient wars due to the brutal amount of casualties. Even in Vietnam, your guys needed to be very brave to carry on. Most wars now consist on bombing 3rd world countries to hell, and I suppose that Jimmy the pilot doesn't need to be as brave as little Fritz and little Vladimir when they were killing each other with bayonets in a ruined building back in 1942.


What exactly do you mean by "real" war here? Do you mean industrialized states slugging it out with conventional armies? There have been a number of those since WWII.


War in sea, air, and ground between superpowers. Total war economy. I mean something like that.

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CTALNH
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Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:51 am

Jagalonia wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Wait guns existed before the industrial revolution?

Well...Gunpowder existed since ~100AD, so I don't see why not... :P

Okay did mass produced muskets exist back then?
Not hand cannons.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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Jagalonia
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Posts: 4921
Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jagalonia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:53 am

CTALNH wrote:
Jagalonia wrote:Well...Gunpowder existed since ~100AD, so I don't see why not... :P

Okay did mass produced muskets exist back then?
Not hand cannons.

But who doesn't love lobbing a giant ball of lead at their enemies? Rather than a small ball of lead.
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

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Wallonochia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 981
Founded: Jul 21, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Wallonochia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:02 am

Selegnia wrote:What exactly do you mean by "real" war here? Do you mean industrialized states slugging it out with conventional armies? There have been a number of those since WWII.


War in sea, air, and ground between superpowers. Total war economy. I mean something like that.[/quote]

I'd say that for the individual soldiers wars like the Iran-Iraq war, the Korean War, the Ethiopian-Eritrean War and so on probably were as terrifying as WWII. I imagine the two wars in Iraq were also pretty much as terrifying for the soldiers in the Iraqi army.

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CTALNH
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Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:04 am

Jagalonia wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Okay did mass produced muskets exist back then?
Not hand cannons.

But who doesn't love lobbing a giant ball of lead at their enemies? Rather than a small ball of lead.

The ones that wants to fire 700 small balls of lead a minute and not needing 20 minutes to reload.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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Jagalonia
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Posts: 4921
Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jagalonia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:08 am

CTALNH wrote:
Jagalonia wrote:But who doesn't love lobbing a giant ball of lead at their enemies? Rather than a small ball of lead.

The ones that wants to fire 700 small balls of lead a minute and not needing 20 minutes to reload.

Pfft...REAL men use hand cannons...
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

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SD_Film Artists
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13400
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby SD_Film Artists » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:12 am

Modern warfare has became more surgical rather than relying on tough men with axes, but warfare still requires bravery, just in different areas. Would you run across an area known to have snipers covering it?
Lurking NSG since 2005
Economic Left/Right: -2.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67

When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.

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CTALNH
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Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:24 am

Jagalonia wrote:
CTALNH wrote:The ones that wants to fire 700 small balls of lead a minute and not needing 20 minutes to reload.

Pfft...REAL men use hand cannons...

Hey I have accuracy and efficiency with me what do you have?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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Jagalonia
Senator
 
Posts: 4921
Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jagalonia » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:39 am

CTALNH wrote:
Jagalonia wrote:Pfft...REAL men use hand cannons...

Hey I have accuracy and efficiency with me what do you have?

Giant balls. (Of lead)
Last edited by Jagalonia on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:44 am

Jagalonia wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Hey I have accuracy and efficiency with me what do you have?

Giant balls. (Of lead)

Who can't hit me if I ain't standing 10m from you.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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