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[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

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Mahaj
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

Postby Mahaj » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:28 am

Want some information about why to vote for? Click Me

Note that three natives support this liberation!

Description: The Security Council,

NOTING that the region of Christmas was raided by forces of Asgard, The New Inquisition, and The Land Of Kings and Emperors on July 4th, 2012;

AWARE that Christmas is a region which many people treasure due to its special name;

RECOGNIZING that while the native community in Christmas was not large and has been forcibly removed, it is still deserving of the basic rights of freedom of movement and to be free from external governance;

DISAPPOINTED by the stated goals of Asgard, which are to refound the region and keep it as a colony;

BELIEVING that the Security Council must act swifly to protect Christmas from being stolen and kept as a colony;

HEREBY Liberates Christmas.
Last edited by Frisbeeteria on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Aal Izz Well: UDL
<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Jamie Anumia
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Founded: Feb 15, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Jamie Anumia » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:32 am

Firmly Opposed. Absolutely unnecessary. Another utilisation of the SC as a defender tool.
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Skyrim Diplomacy
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Founded: Jun 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Skyrim Diplomacy » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:41 am

Opposed. The region was inactive to begin with. Now the UDL wants to stick their noses in simply because a non-native has thrown up a password.

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Ambroscus Koth
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ambroscus Koth » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:42 am

Great to hear from you again, Mahaj! Though I wish it were in better taste...

NOTING that the region of Christmas was raided by forces of Asgard, The New Inquisition, and The Land Of Kings and Emperors on July 4th, 2012;


Well it was just Asgard that invaded at update, the other regions came to our aid later. Obviously not big of a deal but I like tooting my own horn :P

AWARE that Christmas is a region which many people treasure due to its special name;


Okay...

RECOGNIZING that while the native community in Christmas was not large and has been forcibly removed, it is still deserving of the basic rights of freedom of movement and to be free from external governance;


Ah, now we get to the juicy lies. Here's the deal, guys. We have telegrammed all the nations in Christmas alerting them of our plan to refound, and they are highly encouraged to come back after the deed is done. We are not excluding them, alienating them, or taking away their rights.

Here's some facts:

- On July 4th, there were 0 WA nations in Christmas and no WA Delegate, therefore we overthrew nobody.
- There was not a single post on the RMB for around 140 days prior to our invasion. Whatever semblance of a community there was in Christmas was obviously not strong.

DISAPPOINTED by the stated goals of Asgard, which are to refound the region and keep it as a colony;


So that it may be free from future invasion by organizations that may have more dubious intentions than ourselves. A colony though it may be, it will not be a "trophy" as you so elegantly stated in your public telegram. It will be open for all of the NS community.

BELIEVING that the Security Council must act swifly to protect Christmas from being stolen and kept as a colony;


Swiftly* :P

And you cannot steal something that has no owner. Nobody was in charge of Christmas and the natives did not feel it necessary to defend themselves. Being "stolen" is probably the best thing that will ever happen to this region.

HEREBY Liberates Christmas.


For no other reason than to be opposed to the actions of a raider org. Let me ask you this, Mahaj, what do you want to come of this liberation? A future where Christmas is constantly invaded all the time and the native community doesn't exist?
Last edited by Ambroscus Koth on Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mahaj
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:04 am

Who gives you permission to refound this region and make it 'open for the nationstates community'. None of the natives gave you permission to do this, so its not a justification of anything grand or some noble thing you're doing.

It's still griefing, we've heard this story many times, and it ends the same way every time someone believes you. Every. Single. Time.

Also as a note: A native did not telegram Unibot about Christmas... a native telegrammed about Korel. Get your facts straight.
Last edited by Mahaj on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Unibot II
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Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:09 am

Mahaj wrote:Also as a note: A native did not telegram Unibot about Christmas... a native telegrammed about Korel. Get your facts straight.


I can confirm this, Asgard's "facts" are lies. I did not receive any such telegram.

Furthermore, I do not see why the occupiers need to destroy the region to make it a better region. Why not just, join the region and improve it from the inside? Not occupy it and destroy and hope to refound it under the imperialist crown? Oh yes.. because it's not about caring for the region, it's about imperialism. :roll:

I will support this resolution when it comes to vote.
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Mahaj
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:24 am

Mahaj, what do you want to come of this liberation? A future where Christmas is constantly invaded all the time and the native community doesn't exist?

Your plans to refound the region involve kicking out the entire native community, such that it does not exist inside of Christmas.

So what do I want? A region where the natives can live in peace how they want. That is why I support this liberation.
Aal Izz Well: UDL
<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Ambroscus Koth
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Founded: May 06, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Ambroscus Koth » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:27 am

Nobody mentioned such a telegram in this thread. For those of you who are wondering what Mahaj and Unibot are going on about, there was a misunderstanding with an IRC conversation between Unibot and I that led me to believe a Christmas native opposed liberation. I was only told this was not the case about 10 minutes ago by Mahaj, and I hope that you both will drop the subject because it was an honest misunderstanding, not a lie.
Last edited by Ambroscus Koth on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
☀ Pharaoh Emeritus of Osiris (x2) ☀
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♥ Drunk married to Aurum Rider | Author of SC#172

Miniluv: Stability is Stagnation!

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Fynnbays
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Founded: Apr 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fynnbays » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:28 am

To me, this is sounding like another AoSS. situation. The UDL are just wanting to hold the region to ransom so the region will be dependent on the defender groups in the future for protection.

If these claims made by the raiders about their intentions turn out to be untrue then the natives can always found a region with a similar name that will have the added protection of an active founder.
Last edited by Fynnbays on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mahaj
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:30 am

Ambroscus Koth wrote:Nobody mentioned such a telegram in this thread. For those of you who are wondering what Mahaj and Unibot are going on about, there was a misunderstanding with an IRC conversation between Unibot and I that led me to believe a Christmas native opposed liberation. I was only told this was not the case about 10 minutes ago by Mahaj, and I hope that you both will drop the subject because it was an honest misunderstanding, not a lie.

The argument was still used in the telegramming of delegates against this resolution.

I'm glad you admitted it was a mistake, so there's no need for me to pressure it, but it is important that delegates know that what they received in their inboxes from Cormac was not the truth.
Aal Izz Well: UDL
<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Eist
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Eist » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:54 am

Are/were there any WA natives? I've always been hesitant to defend there because I've always considered it a puppet dump.

Not that the answer to this is going to define my vote; I am just genuinely interested.
Unibot III wrote:Frankly, the lows that people sink to in this game is perhaps the most disturbing thing about NationStates Gameplay.

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Venicos
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Founded: Jun 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Venicos » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:58 am

There were no WA members and no WA delegate
Last edited by Venicos on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SunRawr
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Founded: May 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby SunRawr » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:58 am

This is just silly..

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Cormac Stark
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Founded: Apr 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormac Stark » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:36 pm

We regret the error in regard to native opposition to liberation -- but it was just that, an error. We did not intentionally mislead anyone.

Mahaj wrote:Your plans to refound the region involve kicking out the entire native community, such that it does not exist inside of Christmas.

So what do I want? A region where the natives can live in peace how they want. That is why I support this liberation.

As we stated on the WFE, on the RMB, in our embassy update, and in our TG to Delegates, any native interested in returning to Christmas will be guaranteed the right of return. Speaking of natives, your extremely flawed proposal states that the entire native population has already been ejected from the region. I count at least five natives still in the region. Do you have information that I don't have that leads you to believe these remaining nations aren't native to the region? Or is your proposal just that much more inaccurate?

By the way, should your liberation proposal prevail, what do you plan to do to make Christmas "a region where the natives can live in peace how they want"? Our intentions are clear: We will refound the region, which will in fact guarantee peace and allow natives to live without the threat of constant invasion and however they want. The history of Christmas thus far has been of constant invasion and detagging. If your liberation resolution passes, what are you going to do to change that?

Unibot wrote:Furthermore, I do not see why the occupiers need to destroy the region to make it a better region. Why not just, join the region and improve it from the inside?

We are not "destroying" the region. We are refounding the region, and your hyperbole doesn't change that. Moreover, if the UDL is so concerned about the future of this region why haven't any of you joined the region and improved it from the inside? Why did we find it with no WA nations, no WA Regional Delegate, and no posts on the RMB for five months? Don't blame us for your failures in regard to founderless regions.

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Venicos
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Founded: Jun 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Venicos » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:45 pm

I have a question to Mahaj, has any native asked you or any part of UDL to liberate them?

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Sedgistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:58 pm

I always thought Christmas was just occupied with puppets, and that there'd never been any community there. It does seem silly to argue that the invasion and re-founding is okay because there's no community there, and then also claim that re-founding will allow the community to be secure. If there's no community, its security is irrelevant.

That said, I'd probably support this, simply because re-founding will deny us the chance to see which raiders are dedicated/obsessed enough to take part in the annual Christmas Eve raid. EDIT: Plus which defenders are crazy enough to liberate the next day...
Last edited by Sedgistan on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Eist
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Eist » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:01 pm

Raiders should not be allowed to occupy and lock-down any innocent region, regardless of size and activity. To give a seemingly innocent region the chance for autonomous rule as opposed to raider oppression is something I will almost always support.

FOR
Unibot III wrote:Frankly, the lows that people sink to in this game is perhaps the most disturbing thing about NationStates Gameplay.

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Cromarty
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Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cromarty » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:07 pm

Venicos wrote:I have a question to Mahaj, has any native asked you or any part of UDL to liberate them?

Has any native asked Asgard to invade and refound the region?
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Cormac Stark
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cormac Stark » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:22 pm

Cromarty wrote:
Venicos wrote:I have a question to Mahaj, has any native asked you or any part of UDL to liberate them?

Has any native asked Asgard to invade and refound the region?

We asked Mahaj first. :P

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Drop Your Pants
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Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:30 pm

Sedgistan wrote:I always thought Christmas was just occupied with puppets, and that there'd never been any community there.

Used to share a founder with The Youngworld so it had a bit of a community, if only by accident :P

Edit: you know its bad when a mod tells you to fix your tags :P
Last edited by Drop Your Pants on Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mahaj
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:46 pm

Cormac Stark wrote:
Cromarty wrote:Has any native asked Asgard to invade and refound the region?

We asked Mahaj first. :P

You raided first.
Aal Izz Well: UDL
<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Venicos
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Founded: Jun 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Venicos » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:57 pm

Would you please answer the question Mahaj? The facts should be known.

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Fear the Navy
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Founded: Jun 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fear the Navy » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:00 pm

Mahaj has stated on IRC that he writes these proposals to increase his SC Resolution count. Any proposal by him should be taken with a grain of salt.

I just don't understand why these SC Proposals have to be so poor in quality if the reasoning is sound.

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Cromarty
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Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cromarty » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:02 pm

Fear the Navy wrote:Mahaj has stated on IRC that he writes these proposals to increase his SC Resolution count. Any proposal by him should be taken with a grain of salt.

I just don't understand why these SC Proposals have to be so poor in quality if the reasoning is sound.

Tell me, what SC Proposals have you authored recently?

And who is it that's hiding behind this puppet?
Cerian Quilor wrote:There's a difference between breaking the rules, and being well....Cromarty...
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Fear the Navy
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Founded: Jun 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fear the Navy » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:04 pm

Cromarty wrote:
Fear the Navy wrote:Mahaj has stated on IRC that he writes these proposals to increase his SC Resolution count. Any proposal by him should be taken with a grain of salt.

I just don't understand why these SC Proposals have to be so poor in quality if the reasoning is sound.

Tell me, what SC Proposals have you authored recently?

And who is it that's hiding behind this puppet?

None, I have too much respect for the SC as an institution to submit anything other than what I feel would be of solid quality.

It's my WA nation and this is a WA institution.

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