Gay for Hitler

[Parnassus]

What is it about these forums that it attracts so many Hitler posts and Hitlerphiles? This isn't a comment about the politics of the forums (which seem decidedly left) so much as it is me actually wondering where all the fascination with Hitler/Nazis comes from. Does the idea of nation building (in a pseudo-ideal, game-like way) attract neo-fascists? Or is it more of a "natural" attraction to perceived power?

Anyway, just curious really.

[Yootopia]

"Game in which you run a country by executive order, with absolutely no recourse to public opinion 'may attract fans of despotism' shocker"

[Blouman Empire]

"No, you're gay for hitler"

Hitler: No one's gay for Hitler.

Cookie for the reference.

[Cybach]

What is it about these forums that it attracts so many Hitler posts and Hitlerphiles? This isn't a comment about the politics of the forums (which seem decidedly left) so much as it is me actually wondering where all the fascination with Hitler/Nazis comes from. Does the idea of nation building (in a pseudo-ideal, game-like way) attract neo-fascists? Or is it more of a "natural" attraction to perceived power?

Anyway, just curious really.

I would say simple fascination at the man. I will try to explain it in somewhat greater detail;

People are just fascinated by a man born a poor man in a very desolate corner of the world. Far from what can be considered a city. Grew up wanting to become an artist. As well as being a strict vegetarian, and teetotaler (refusing all alcohol and smoking). Spent his youth drawing and painting. Even applied to the most prestigious art academy of his country. Then when war broke out, a person who then fought 4 years in WW1 with such exceptional bravery that he received a medal 1st class that was almost never offered to men his rank.

Then being so frustrated at the politics of the world that he sought to change it. Something like that tickles the funny bone in many of us, the small man raising his voice against the big man. Starting with a party of 7 members, and in a decade later possessing a movement with over 12 million members. The whole party and movement revolving solely around you and your struggle against "the establishment."

I would say that fascinates many people. It certainly fascinates me. Since it makes me wonder, how much could he have achieved had he gone a different path? Not many men possess the ability to move millions and a whole nation with the power of charisma, will, conviction and the power of their voice alone. Also out of historical figures the motivation of a leader is an important thing. Josef Stalin seemed purely interested in power for powers sake. Adolf Hitler was a much more dangerous beast, he was an idealist who had a vision and was a revolutionary. Which makes Adolf Hitler stick out like a sore thumb in the combined group of Stalin, Churchill, Hirohito and Roosevelt.

The problem is many people actually forget the person Adolf Hitler, and instead cling to the caricature. I would say most people who make condescending remarks about Adolf Hitler never actually read any of the biographies about him, or bothered to read his speeches. Now I find him morally despicable, and his lack of ethics to be very concerning. However I also disagree with the views many people hold about Adolf Hitler. If he was the imbecile and unimpressive douchebag people like to make him out to be, he would hardly have acheived the things he did. In my view he was a Great man, however he was also an evil man. And by evil I mean evil, he helped show us the depths of how far we as humans can sink if we follow a policy purely consisting of ends justifying the means.


Not to mention the disparity of opinions about him now and back then. Such as this description from the Prime Minister of the UK, which nicely sums it up;

"It is not the Germany of the first decade that followed the war- broken, dejected and bowed down with a sense of apprehension and impotence. It is now full of hope and confidence, and of a renewed sense of determination to lead its own life without interference from any influence outside its own frontiers. One man has accomplished this miracle. He is a born leader of men. A magnetic and dynamic personality with a single-minded purpose, a resolute will and a dauntless heart. The like of which mankind will never see again for another thousand years."
--David Lloyd George, Prime Minister, UK

As well as;

"I have never met a happier people than the Germans and Hitler is one of the
greatest men. The old trust him; the young idolise him. It is the worship of a national
hero who has saved his country." David Lloyd George, Daily Express, 17.9.1936

&

"In fifteen years that have followed this resolve, he has succeeded in restoring
Germany to the most powerful position in Europe, and not only has he restored the
position of his country, but he has even, to a very great extent, reversed the results
of the Great War.... the vanquished are in the process of becoming the victors and
the victors the vanquished.... whatever else might be thought about these exploits
they are certainly among the most remarkable in the whole history of the world." –
Winston J.Churchill, 1935.




Obviously Hitler was an enigma in his time, as much as he was in our time. The only reason why people are mentioning him more and more, and becoming fascinated with him is that as time passes by. So does the magnanimity of his crimes.

So my personal judgment on him? I can respect Adolf Hitler for the magnitude of his achievements, and how far he made it in life from a simple rural hick. However I cannot condone, excuse or forgive the crimes he committed in his attempt to reform and reshape the nation to fit his worldview.

[Alania Scotia]

a man born a poor man in a very desolate corner of the world.

Have you ever been to Austria? It's a lush, green paradise.

[Yootopia]

a man born a poor man in a very desolate corner of the world.

Have you ever been to Austria? It's a lush, green paradise.

You ever been a peasant in an industrialised society? Not that hot.

[Kryozerkia]

"No, you're gay for hitler"

Hitler: No one's gay for Hitler.

Cookie for the reference.

Too easy. No one is gay for Moleman.

[Blouman Empire]

"No, you're gay for hitler"

Hitler: No one's gay for Hitler.

Cookie for the reference.

Too easy. No one is gay for Moleman.

Haha yes, saw that episode tonight.

[Kostemetsia]

You know, Hitler could potentially have ended up one of the greatest men in the world, remembered fondly by all, if he hadn't decided the best way to achieve his aims was to massacre the Jews and suppress his own people.

I mean, look at the man, pre-Nazi Party. He was a war hero, a fiery idealist, a brilliant orator - the things that made people stand out at the time, and still do: they even worked immediately post-war, if you look at Eisenhower. The Gefreiter Hitler of World War I, if I remember correctly, was looked up to by his colleagues.

The problem is, he turned his skills to evil. Hitler was, to use a blunt and amusingly incongruous analogy, the Darth Vader of early 20th-century politics. He was amazingly skilled and he used what he had to make people do horrible things for his own sick pleasure. The theory is that Hitler was abused as a child - which lends a lot of unasked-for weight to the excuse 'X was abused as a child' - but whatever happened, he drove himself mad over it and plunged Germany into the darkest unexplored depths of moral turpitude and tyranny.

It should be obvious that I am not praising Hitler. Everything he is infamous for sickens and disgusts me, but I think that the potential that Hitler had, in a firmly ethically good body, would have changed the world unspeakably for the better oppositely to how Nazi Germany changed it for the worse.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. ANYBODY WHO TAKES OFFENCE AT THIS IS MISPARSING IT.

[Nodinia]

People are just fascinated by a man born a poor man in a very desolate corner of the world

He wasn't born poor, and Austria was (and is) not (in the usual meaning of the term) desolate, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Maurepas]

Such a sexist post, it wouldnt be Homosexual for everyone,

[Kostemetsia]

Such a sexist post, it wouldnt be Homosexual for everyone,

Agreed. I call sexism.

[Parnassus]

*sigh* - yes, busted on phallocentricity. And yes, the title was meant entirely as a moleman reference.

But thanks to Cybach and Kostemetsia - I was hoping for a somewhat detailed response (I say somewhat because, well, I did title the post "gay for Hitler") from someone. It's just one of those things that I'm always curious about - kind of like white, male history majors at American colleges. Those I've encountered (even outside the South) are almost always fascinated by Hitler and/or the US Civil War. It often gets dismissed simply as racism, but I don't think it's that basic for most. There's something else about both of those subjects that draws a lot of people's interest. I don't see a lot of Confederate posts here though, so I was curious why Hitler.

It's also one of those topics that people often seem compelled to defend themselves against as soon as they mention it - which I find interesting. For example, if I did want to talk about Hitler, and I'm not some neo-Nazi, I almost *have to* say so before I even start to talk about it. There are other topics that get treated the same way - like pedophilia. But there are others where we don't feel the need to do that - like serial killers.

[Yakana]

Sadly, I can't find a video of it on Youtube... But the Mormons I think it was... had a commercial saying "No name has been spoken more" and something about controversy and most world leaders speaking of him and all this crap in refers to the bible and Jesus... and the first person I thought of during that was Hitler. He's on of the few people who can rank on the list of being one of the most well known names.

I personally don't understand why people still follow that belief system. I think most of them on here are simply children trying to be cool by being wanna-be nazi. I do however find interest in him as a historical figure... that does not change the fact that I hope he some how died a slow painful death.

[Kostemetsia]

You know, I do believe the post I made is going to come back and haunt me, so I'm issuing the following statement, legally effective immediately: Should I ever have a net worth of more than $10 million and/or become successful to the point that I am interviewed in at least one national newspaper, all media staff are legally required to consider that I am as opposed to Hitler as the next sane human. I just reason out my opposition.



It just gets me that to say that Hitler and Nazi Germany were powerful and successful comes off as a compliment, when really, it isn't. Hitler was a sick disgusting bastard, but he was still successful and powerful. Nazi Germany massacred people en masse simply because they were born with specific genes, and in the later days of the war because they had specific disabilities (regardless of ethnicity), but it was still successful and powerful: it was an economic powerhouse and managed to withstand the might of an alliance of superpowers for an impressively long time.

As to why Hitler is such a popular discussion topic, I think it's because everyone's heard of him. Civil War politics are only really of interest to Americans, I would think, simply because they were part of what was pretty much an internal conflict. Hitler, however, is infamous worldwide.

[New Manvir]

"No, you're gay for hitler"

Hitler: No one's gay for Hitler.

Cookie for the reference.

Nobody likes Milhouse!

[Lakarian]

Gay for hitler? Interesting ideal though Goring was the Drag Queen.

[Cameroi]

it was his gay brownshirts who brought hitler to power. they were also of course the first people he turned around and stabbed in the back once he attained it. it is also to gay credit that alan turing was instrumental in winning the war against hitler with his work in creating codebreaking technology.

[Maurepas]

I don't see a lot of Confederate posts here though

Just on at the wrong time of year, friend,

Plus, i think me and Cat-tribe just agreed to disagree,

But, for a good insight as to why the South focuses on the Confederacy, Id recommend you see Scotland, cause its rather similar...

[Cybach]

*sigh* - yes, busted on phallocentricity. And yes, the title was meant entirely as a moleman reference.

But thanks to Cybach and Kostemetsia - I was hoping for a somewhat detailed response (I say somewhat because, well, I did title the post "gay for Hitler") from someone. It's just one of those things that I'm always curious about - kind of like white, male history majors at American colleges. Those I've encountered (even outside the South) are almost always fascinated by Hitler and/or the US Civil War. It often gets dismissed simply as racism, but I don't think it's that basic for most. There's something else about both of those subjects that draws a lot of people's interest. I don't see a lot of Confederate posts here though, so I was curious why Hitler.

It's also one of those topics that people often seem compelled to defend themselves against as soon as they mention it - which I find interesting. For example, if I did want to talk about Hitler, and I'm not some neo-Nazi, I almost *have to* say so before I even start to talk about it. There are other topics that get treated the same way - like pedophilia. But there are others where we don't feel the need to do that - like serial killers.

To be fair. It's not just white males who are fascinated with Adolf Hitler. Gandhi was a fan of Adolf Hitler, while rejecting the violent methods he used, he nonetheless considered him one of the greatest men to have lived. This is a fact that is often downplayed in biographies about Gandhi. The same can be said of Black rights activist Louis Farrakhan who more than once made positive remarks about Hitler.

Not to mention in East Asia there is very little stigma associated towards Adolf Hitler. They have whole bars and nightclubs dedicated to him and his Third Reich in South east Asia, which leads to some oddities such as these which would shock the hell out of any Westerner;

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opin ... 382342.cms
[Yes, in a poll of university students Hitler landed 3rd as most wished for leader to lead the nation......]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/2 ... 90064.html
http://www.nowpublic.com/strange/indian ... ess-hitler
[Followed by Mein Kampf {Hitlers autobiography} becoming one of the most popular books in India for India's Business Students, and is according to leading stores becoming more and more popular with students every year who praise Hitler as a management guru and often use it as, to quote the article a "self-help guidebook" apparently,..as fucked up as that sounds]

http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_n ... 25285.html
[Again India. This time the Israeli lobby going livid about the introduction of a school book in Western India heavily glorifying Adolf Hitler and completely ignoring the Holocaust {Note: Book is still in use in Western India and was not pulled off the curricula even after the uproar}]

http://communalism.blogspot.com/2006/12 ... india.html
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... ouble.html
http://images.mmosite.com/my/upload/0d/ ... 49_727.jpg


I am sure I can dig up many, many more examples. However back to the original point. As I said, people are just fascinated at the superhuman achievements and accomplishments that Adolf Hitler managed in his life. I guess it's a bit of an Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader syndrome, with people wondering what he could have achieved had he not decided that the ends always justify the means. Since whether you hate him or admire him, one has to admit that Adolf Hitler was a natural leader who also possessed an amazing charisma, dedication and oratory talent. A combination we may not see in another leader for a long time. Or perhaps we should just force more vegetarian artists into politics to see the results...