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Rape Thread [SAFE SPACE - Mod Enforced]

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Homosexy
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Rape Thread [SAFE SPACE - Mod Enforced]

Postby Homosexy » Wed May 02, 2012 12:47 pm

Last Saturday, I became a victim and now a survivor of a rape. Before this, I did not know about this world that I would soon be thrown into where more than 3 out of the 10 people I told, replied with "me too". Where the 1 in 5 girls in the United States statistic becomes a real thing. So I'm becoming very passionate about the topic, and would like to use NSG as an opportunity to discuss the topic, try to raise awareness, and finally just kind of try to figure out why it has to happen, and how we can remedy it. I'm coming out with it, as soon as I am, because I want to put a name and a face to the statistic, and bring in my raw, week old experience, to do something about it.

Here are some questions to discuss:

There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?
Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped? Why is it such a taboo subject? Should it be talked about more than it already is?
Are the forms of awareness that we're using now working?

Anything else that people want to throw in, go ahead. I only ask that people are respectful and think before you speak, because there may be survivors and victims reading this, and I don't want to be responsible for anything too traumatic. This is a safe space. If you don't have something nice or productive to say, don't say it at all.

THE WEBSITE AND PETITIONS ARE DONE AND OUT!

Hey guys. This has to do with my sexual assault. My wonderful mother made this website: http://justiceforjanedoe.com/ with what happened, more information, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: Links to the petitions I'd love for all of you to sign. Please. Every time a petition gets signed, an email goes out to the Mayor and DA involved. Please please please go in and sign this and then spread it around. I don't care how you do it, just please get this out to as many people as possible.

EDIT: Also, if any of you want to put the links on your sig, on your facebook, twitter, whatever, feel free to. I really just want this website to get to as many people. For two reasons. One, It would be wonderful for everyone to sign the petition and for this guy to be brought to the justice he needs to be brought to. And two, probably the more important, SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. It needs to be publicized, and people need to know. I can't tell you how many friends have come out to me as previous victims because I have come out to them. There would be so much more healing if we could just make this a big time issue. So please! Share the link to the website in any way you possibly can.

MODEDIT: This is a mod-endorsed safe space, the only one on NationStates. It is for and about survivors of a crime. For some, it may be a stepping-stone from "I don't want to talk about this" to "I'm able to talk to some people about this".

While no-one can guarantee safety on the net, please note that in addition to the usual rules regarding no flaming, no baiting, no trolling and keeping it PG-13, we will also rigidly enforce no mocking nicknames and no gloating.

If you try to blame or shame the crime survivors ...

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We are not shutting down discussion or debate about rape, but this is not the thread for it. If you want to debate, for example, issues of consent (age of, implied, ability to), please start another thread or go to an existing one.

Posters, please inform others politely if they are outside the boundaries of this thread and request mod assistance speedily if your reminder does not succeed.
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Raeyh
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Postby Raeyh » Wed May 02, 2012 12:50 pm

There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?


It's just a fictional book/movie, don't take it seriously. A chilling effect in fiction is bad.

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Postby Vaugania » Wed May 02, 2012 12:52 pm

Solution = add rape to the list of capital crimes. Or at least severe cases.

This is something that is a bane to society and needs to stop.
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Postby Proloteriat » Wed May 02, 2012 12:54 pm

Vaugania wrote:Solution = add rape to the list of capital crimes. Or at least severe cases.

This is something that is a bane to society and needs to stop.


Actualy it is proven that its not the punishment that's the best deterent its the risk of being caught. We have to make sure there's rape awareness and naturaly a good police to defend against it.
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Postby Homosexy » Wed May 02, 2012 12:54 pm

Raeyh wrote:
There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?


It's just a fictional book/movie, don't take it seriously. A chilling effect in fiction is bad.

I'm not talking about censoring the content, or the fact that a rape occurred. I'm talking about the version of the movie where the rape scene happens, and instead of taking a bit more of another artistic approach, perhaps, the scene is blunt and graphic. Here's an article about it:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainme ... ttoo-rape/

The scene is disgusting and would be a major trigger to anyone watching who has survived/endured events happening to them.
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Postby Arkinesia » Wed May 02, 2012 12:55 pm

Homosexy wrote:There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?

My view on that is that we can't move past taboo if we aren't shocked first.

So yes, it should. Rape is too taboo of a subject and some of the layer of shock needs to be lifted before we can actually have an honest discussion on the subject. For what it's worth, having an OP come in and tell us she was raped last Saturday is a pretty good start too.

Homosexy wrote:Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped?

Probably because of the slight overvaluation we place on sex, and because inadvertently many victims realize that they have been the subject of domination by someone with a sense of lack of control over his/her surroundings.

Homosexy wrote:Why is it such a taboo subject?

Nobody likes to talk about people being forced into submission.

Homosexy wrote:Should it be talked about more than it already is?

Of course.

Homosexy wrote:Are the forms of awareness that we're using now working?

Probably not.
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Postby Aksun » Wed May 02, 2012 12:56 pm

I am a dude and have not suffered this, but I will try to offer some insight.

"Here are some questions to discuss:

1) There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?
2) Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped? Why is it such a taboo subject? Should it be talked about more than it already is?
3) Are the forms of awareness that we're using now working?

Anything else that people want to throw in, go ahead. I only ask that people are respectful and think before you speak, because there may be survivors and victims reading this, and I don't want to be responsible for anything too traumatic. This is a safe space. If you don't have something nice or productive to say, don't say it at all."

1) There are movies out there with very different ratings I am sure the majority have seen. These movies are rated based on the content and the movies out there like the one you referenced are for entertainment purposes. I see your point however, and that goes along the lines of looking at movie reviews. (Reference to Roger Ebert: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/

2) It is a self esteem issue. What the suspect has done is destroy their personal space and this victim normally feels alone and that nobody in the world has suffered this problem. A solution is speaking to close friends or family and have a discussion, it may be personal, but the family SHOULD understand (some families do not, so I cant say for all). It is such a taboo subject because it pertains to the American culture. We have these problems due to a variety of reasons and Americans normally push it out of the way, because it is personal and embarrassing for the victims. Yes it should be talked about as communication is key. The more the citizens of America talk about this growing issue, the more action that could be taken as the government or law makers will see this as a pressing problem.

3) Yes there are several organizations out there in several states. (Alaska the worst with more rape per capita) These organizations spread the word about rape and try to prevent it before it happens. The organizations seems to be now using television as a means to spread the word that it is not ok.

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Postby Maroza » Wed May 02, 2012 12:57 pm

Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped? Why is it such a taboo subject?

I think when men are raped they are ashamed because its not supposed to happen to them, you always hear of women getting raped but never a man. That's my guess as to why men tend not to talk about or report what happened.
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Postby Anarchist Lands » Wed May 02, 2012 12:57 pm

There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?
I personally have not seen the movie, but I believe that, and no offense, it should be allowed in the movie because of simply free speech. Some people may not like the fact that it is in the movie, but the producers have a right to put it in there.
Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped?

It seems like they are ashamed because what is normally a special thing done out of love is then turned into a weapon to be used against them. Their body has been violated by someone in a very hurtful way, and they want to be safe.
Why is it such a taboo subject?

People feel insecure after they have been raped. They don't want to talk about it in hopes that it will go away and the memory will fade.
Should it be talked about more than it already is?

People should most definitely know more about the dangers of rape and how to protect against it. There should also be much more serious punishments for committing it.
Are the forms of awareness that we're using now working?

Most likely not, because it is still happening.

My intent is not to offend anyone who might be a victim or know one, I am simply stating my opinions.

Also, my condolences to you, I don't really know what to say, but I hope they caught/catch that awful awful person who did that to you.
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Postby Laerod » Wed May 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Homosexy wrote:Last Saturday, I became a victim and now a survivor of a rape. Before this, I did not know about this world that I would soon be thrown into where more than 3 out of the 10 people I told, replied with "me too". Where the 1 in 5 girls in the United States statistic becomes a real thing. So I'm becoming very passionate about the topic, and would like to use NSG as an opportunity to discuss the topic, try to raise awareness, and finally just kind of try to figure out why it has to happen, and how we can remedy it. I'm coming out with it, as soon as I am, because I want to put a name and a face to the statistic, and bring in my raw, week old experience, to do something about it.

I am so very sorry to hear that =(
Homosexy wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
It's just a fictional book/movie, don't take it seriously. A chilling effect in fiction is bad.

I'm not talking about censoring the content, or the fact that a rape occurred. I'm talking about the version of the movie where the rape scene happens, and instead of taking a bit more of another artistic approach, perhaps, the scene is blunt and graphic. Here's an article about it:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainme ... ttoo-rape/

The scene is disgusting and would be a major trigger to anyone watching who has survived/endured events happening to them.

The question is what to do with it though? Sanitizing it isn't necessarily a good idea either; the scene is intended to shock and confront an audience with the reality of what rape means, much like the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan confronted the audience with the brutal reality of war and caused several veterans to break down.

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Postby Yandere Schoolgirls » Wed May 02, 2012 1:03 pm

Homosexy wrote:There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?

I don't think that rape scenes should exactly be outlawed in movies. If people don't want to watch it because it has questionable material in it then they should find out this stuff before hand, and not go see it.

For instance the rape scene in Pulp Fiction was great, and the shock made the movie that more enjoyable. I shouldn't be derived of that pleasure at the expense of some one else.
Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped? Why is it such a taboo subject? Should it be talked about more than it already is?

I'm pretty sure there is some evolutionary biological reason why it's shameful, but I can't think of anything at the moment.

In regards to 'rape' being taboo subject. I just don't think that it should be discussed in public places, because it's such a joy killer and it's also weird. The last thing I want while I'm having a good time or relaxing is some one to jump in with a subject about rape. I think that it's something that should be discussed in private or in some sort of group setting.

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Postby The Republique Dardania and Gazmania » Wed May 02, 2012 1:19 pm

Homosexy wrote:Last Saturday, I became a victim and now a survivor of a rape.


:( :( :( :( :( :(

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Postby Tekania » Wed May 02, 2012 1:19 pm

On the subject of people being ashamed for being rape victims, I imagine it's a point that the people are ashamed (for the most part in an irrational sense) for loss of control of a situation. People get scared when thing go beyond their control and one reaction to that is an attempt to partially shift blame to themselves in a way to somehow take some badly thought-out ownership of the situation.
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Postby 1000 Cats » Wed May 02, 2012 1:23 pm

Rape is a rather complex phenomenon. The reason it's shameful for men is because it's rather emasculating. The reason it's shameful for women, I think, while similar, could be more complex. I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I mentioned in another thread the idea that women may be predisposed towards submitting in violent sexual situations. Simply a survival mechanism: we don't really have very good means of defending ourselves, so evolutionarily speaking it's better to survive and be raped than to die. However, this makes many women wonder if that involuntary submission means they really did "want it" on some level. That fear and confusion is what a lot of women who do not report a rape cite as their reason.

I think rape should become less of a taboo subject. As the OP stated, it's actually really prevalent, but we never know it because no one ever talks about it. It should be treated as the crime it is, with a very real perpetrator and victim, the same way as is murder.
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Postby The Republique Dardania and Gazmania » Wed May 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Homosexy wrote:Last Saturday, I became a victim and now a survivor of a rape.


I'm so sorry... :(

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Postby Tahar Joblis » Wed May 02, 2012 1:27 pm

Homosexy wrote:Last Saturday, I became a victim and now a survivor of a rape. Before this, I did not know about this world that I would soon be thrown into where more than 3 out of the 10 people I told, replied with "me too". Where the 1 in 5 girls in the United States statistic becomes a real thing.

Your confidants are well above the national average [though the fact that you selected them to be told face to face may have something to do with that]; in general, only about half of female rape victims [as defined by responses to questions about behavior] identify themselves as having been raped, and the higher figures (such as the 1 in 4, 1 in 5, and 1 in 6 women figures, all of which are commonly cited figures) tend to be based on behavioral questions rather than asking people if they have been the victim of rape.

Male victims are apparently less likely to identify themselves explicitly as having been raped, but there has been little effort to peg down exactly how much less likely [or even how prevalent rape actually is among males; unintended definitional issues tend to inhibit meaningful research].
There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?

Yes. There are graphic and disturbing movies out there on a wide variety of topics, and it is not possible to avoid the triggers for trauma; it is good to have explicit labels of what a film contains. [IIRC, the ratings system can mention "sexual violence" in its ratings.] You can probably think of several different types of movies that might contain scenes that a former prisoner of war would find triggering, for example.

A film doesn't even have to be graphic in order to trigger past traumas; I recently watched a episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer - a fairly non-graphic television show as far as such things go - that would have pushed my buttons in a very bad way had I watched it when it originally aired. (Time has done much to heal those wounds, and so, instead of going into a week-long funk, I took a deep breath and talked to my friends about it.)

Censorship, though, would be worse, and we need to be able to air these issues openly.
Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped?

There are a variety of reasons. One is that rape victims become sexually aroused [this is involuntary] and wonder if they really wanted it, for example. One that is specific to men is that rape is categorized in our society as something that only happens to women, so it is emasculating to admit to being a rape victim [in fact, it is emasculating to admit to being a victim of anything, but this is especially the case for rape]. One that is specific to women is that they don't want to be viewed as impure, or "damaged goods."

Since most rapes are committed by acquaintances, there's also fear of disruption of your local corner of the social network; and more specifically, rape victims may have a pre-existing friendship or romance with the perpetrator; their positive beliefs about their rapist have been challenged by the incident, but it's not unusual for rape victims to have very conflicted feelings, especially if they stay in a relationship with the person who raped them.
Why is it such a taboo subject? Should it be talked about more than it already is?

Yes and no. It is talked about too little in some ways and too much in others.

There is very much that can be said about who is allowed to talk about rape.

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Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 02, 2012 1:27 pm

There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?

Yes.
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Postby Norstal » Wed May 02, 2012 1:29 pm

Homosexy wrote:
There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?

I'm reading that book right now and I'm going to ignore any arguments pertaining to this as to not be spoiled. >_>

Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped? Why is it such a taboo subject? Should it be talked about more than it already is?

It's a taboo because it's not expected of society to actually happen, like many taboo subjects. It makes them even more vulnerable than they already are in this way. If you got your house broken into, you do not want to announce to the world that your house can actually be broken into (although irrational). There's also that loss of control Tekania said.

So, although I'd say one should talk about it, it's really up to the victims in this case.

Are the forms of awareness that we're using now working?

I'm not aware of any, except for support groups. Which, I think and I'll be the first to admit here that I don't know anything about these groups, that they seem to be biased towards one gender. I'm not saying that they are, I'm just saying that's what they look like.

It's a delicate situation that not even professionals can solve easily.

Anything else that people want to throw in, go ahead. I only ask that people are respectful and think before you speak, because there may be survivors and victims reading this, and I don't want to be responsible for anything too traumatic. This is a safe space. If you don't have something nice or productive to say, don't say it at all.

I'm curious as to where this happened, but if you don't want to talk about it, it's okay. I'm thinking it can happen everywhere, but I just want to confirm it.
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Postby Homosexy » Wed May 02, 2012 1:31 pm

1000 Cats wrote:Rape is a rather complex phenomenon. The reason it's shameful for men is because it's rather emasculating. The reason it's shameful for women, I think, while similar, could be more complex. I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I mentioned in another thread the idea that women may be predisposed towards submitting in violent sexual situations. Simply a survival mechanism: we don't really have very good means of defending ourselves, so evolutionarily speaking it's better to survive and be raped than to die. However, this makes many women wonder if that involuntary submission means they really did "want it" on some level. That fear and confusion is what a lot of women who do not report a rape cite as their reason.

I think rape should become less of a taboo subject. As the OP stated, it's actually really prevalent, but we never know it because no one ever talks about it. It should be treated as the crime it is, with a very real perpetrator and victim, the same way as is murder.

You are not offending anyone. The survival mechanism that you spoke of is exactly how I survived, because had I viciously fought back, I am very confident that I would be dead.

While I understand why women don't report and don't say anything (my aunt actually said to my mother that she would be embarrassed and that she couldn't believe I was telling anyone), I disagree very much with that course of action. Victims blame themselves on some level. We always will. And I think that letting people know what has happened to us, is really hard.This thread was really difficult for me to make. Typing this brings tears to my eyes. It's really hard. But I think that every single one of us needs to come out as publicly as we can. Faces need to be attached to statistics so we're not just thinking about some girl that we don't know that this happened to a year ago, and instead it becomes about a girl that we know, who tries to be a good person, and who this happened to a week and a half ago. That's why I've come out so publicly to some of my friends and on here. I don't want this to happen to anyone else, ever because I can't even begin to explain how horrifying it is. And I think that girls who this has happened to need to understand that to stop this problem, we need to start coming out and talking about it, not just for our own wellbeing, but for the wellbeing of the other girls and guys around us who this happens to every day.

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Postby Astrolinium » Wed May 02, 2012 1:32 pm

1. Oh my God. :( That's absolutely terrible, Shellby. My deepest sympathies go out to you. :(

2.I haven't seen that movie, but I would say that a graphic rape scene was probably a poor choice. Most importantly, from a perspective of it being an unnecessary thing to do that might cause real distress to viewers. Less importantly, from a cinematographic perspective, something more tasteful, perhaps even off camera with simply shadows shown, would like be much more dramatic and effective than violence, which is a thing we have been in a big way desensitized towards.

I won't comment on the other points because any commentary I could offer would be woefully inadequate.
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Postby Homosexy » Wed May 02, 2012 1:35 pm

Norstal wrote:I'm curious as to where this happened, but if you don't want to talk about it, it's okay. I'm thinking it can happen everywhere, but I just want to confirm it.

It can happen anywhere. It does happen everywhere. For me, I was taken from right outside of my campus to a house in a neighboring town.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed May 02, 2012 1:35 pm

Homosexy wrote:Last Saturday, I became a victim and now a survivor of a rape. Before this, I did not know about this world that I would soon be thrown into where more than 3 out of the 10 people I told, replied with "me too". Where the 1 in 5 girls in the United States statistic becomes a real thing. So I'm becoming very passionate about the topic, and would like to use NSG as an opportunity to discuss the topic, try to raise awareness, and finally just kind of try to figure out why it has to happen, and how we can remedy it. I'm coming out with it, as soon as I am, because I want to put a name and a face to the statistic, and bring in my raw, week old experience, to do something about it.

Here are some questions to discuss:

There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?
Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped? Why is it such a taboo subject? Should it be talked about more than it already is?
Are the forms of awareness that we're using now working?

Anything else that people want to throw in, go ahead. I only ask that people are respectful and think before you speak, because there may be survivors and victims reading this, and I don't want to be responsible for anything too traumatic. This is a safe space. If you don't have something nice or productive to say, don't say it at all.


First of all, sorry to hear that :(

On the film: Yes, it should be allowed in there. However, like many questionable content, the potential audience should be warned before seeing this.

It's a taboo subject because a rape means that you lost control over yourself and what happens to you. Also, because it might cause a big impact on the rapee's group of peers, especially if the rapist and rapee were familiar with each other beforehand (so they're hanging out with the same crowd).

The forms of awareness we have are not working well enough, considering it still happens :(
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Ex-Nation

Postby Former Wellboneland » Wed May 02, 2012 1:36 pm

Homosexy wrote:Last Saturday, I became a victim and now a survivor of a rape. Before this, I did not know about this world that I would soon be thrown into where more than 3 out of the 10 people I told, replied with "me too". Where the 1 in 5 girls in the United States statistic becomes a real thing. So I'm becoming very passionate about the topic, and would like to use NSG as an opportunity to discuss the topic, try to raise awareness, and finally just kind of try to figure out why it has to happen, and how we can remedy it. I'm coming out with it, as soon as I am, because I want to put a name and a face to the statistic, and bring in my raw, week old experience, to do something about it.

Here are some questions to discuss:

There's a scene in a version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo where the rape scene is very graphic. Should it be allowed in there?
Why is it that girls and men are so ashamed when they've been raped? Why is it such a taboo subject? Should it be talked about more than it already is?
Are the forms of awareness that we're using now working?

Anything else that people want to throw in, go ahead. I only ask that people are respectful and think before you speak, because there may be survivors and victims reading this, and I don't want to be responsible for anything too traumatic. This is a safe space. If you don't have something nice or productive to say, don't say it at all.

First of all, I am sorry this happened.

Second of all, I think the scene in the movie should not be removed, and I think rape should be a serious offence.
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Raeyh
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Ex-Nation

Postby Raeyh » Wed May 02, 2012 1:37 pm

Less importantly, from a cinematographic perspective, something more tasteful, perhaps even off camera with simply shadows shown, would like be much more dramatic and effective than violence, which is a thing we have been in a big way desensitized towards.


That would have been a huge departure from the source material.

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