Wage Slavery

[Nazi Flower Power]

To prevent my other thread from being hopelessly derailed, please use this thread to discuss whether "wage slavery" is equivalent to traditional slavery.

I say there are some very meaningful differences between the two.

[1000 Cats]

One's legal.

[Wamitoria]

One is incredibly horrid and deserving of complete annihilation from humanity.

The other is an oxymoron.

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Lets start with definitions.

http://www.answers.com/topic/slavery

(slā'və-rē, slāv'rē) pronunciation
n., pl., -ies.

1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.
2. The practice of owning slaves.
3. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
4. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
5. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.

Well that was easy...

[Nazi Flower Power]

Lets start with definitions.

http://www.answers.com/topic/slavery

(slā'və-rē, slāv'rē) pronunciation
n., pl., -ies.

1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.
2. The practice of owning slaves.
3. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
4. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
5. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.

Well that was easy...

Just because some ideologues appropriate and misuse a word does not mean the rest of us have to follow suit. Just ask socialists and national socialists.

[Norstal]

Lets start with definitions.

http://www.answers.com/topic/slavery

(slā'və-rē, slāv'rē) pronunciation
n., pl., -ies.

1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.
2. The practice of owning slaves.
3. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
4. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
5. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.

Well that was easy...

Appeals to dictionary are appeals to false authority and are circular arguments.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/authorit.html

So, no, wrong.

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Oh, so definitions mean nothing now?

The fact that the American Heritage Dictionary defines wage slavery, as slavery, is totally irrelevant?

Oh how nice it must be to pluck what you want, and discard what you don't.

Anyways, the definition of the terms to be used is always the beginning of any debate...

If you aren't going to allow me to define the terms, then there is no point in even having this argument.

[Cameroi]

the use of credit is indenture. while in principal it is voluntary, there is a great deal of pressure in the u.s. and other supposedly free economies to submit to it.

[Norstal]

Oh, so definitions mean nothing now?

The fact that the American Heritage Dictionary defines wage slavery, as slavery, is totally irrelevant?

Oh how nice it must be to pluck what you want, and discard what you don't.

Anyways, the definition of the terms to be used is always the beginning of any debate...

If you aren't going to allow me to define the terms, then there is no point in even having this argument.

In 1200, the definition of Earth would be "a completely flat dimension" instead of:

earth 
noun
1.( often initial capital letter ) the planet third in order from the sun, having an equatorial diameter of 7926 miles (12,755 km) and a polar diameter of 7900 miles (12,714 km), a mean distance from the sun of 92.9 million miles (149.6 million km), and a period of revolution of 365.26 days, and having one satellite.

So, again, stop being obtuse and just admit it's an appeal to false authority.

[Neo Arcad]

Oh, so definitions mean nothing now?

The fact that the American Heritage Dictionary defines wage slavery, as slavery, is totally irrelevant?

Oh how nice it must be to pluck what you want, and discard what you don't.

Anyways, the definition of the terms to be used is always the beginning of any debate...

If you aren't going to allow me to define the terms, then there is no point in even having this argument.

In 1200, the definition of Earth would be "a completely flat dimension" instead of:

earth 
noun
1.( often initial capital letter ) the planet third in order from the sun, having an equatorial diameter of 7926 miles (12,755 km) and a polar diameter of 7900 miles (12,714 km), a mean distance from the sun of 92.9 million miles (149.6 million km), and a period of revolution of 365.26 days, and having one satellite.

So, again, stop being obtuse and just admit it's an appeal to false authority.

nope.avi

Dictionaries are sort of unbiased. At least, we all should hope so.

[Patriqvinia]

If being paid for labor amounts to slavery, then buying french fries from McDonald's amounts to theft.

[Condunum]

In 1200, the definition of Earth would be "a completely flat dimension" instead of:



So, again, stop being obtuse and just admit it's an appeal to false authority.

nope.avi

Dictionaries are sort of unbiased. At least, we all should hope so.

Dictionaries primary, and only reason to exist is to monitor and record the way language is used.

[Norstal]

In 1200, the definition of Earth would be "a completely flat dimension" instead of:



So, again, stop being obtuse and just admit it's an appeal to false authority.

nope.avi

Dictionaries are sort of unbiased. At least, we all should hope so.

So if you want to research a topic, you'd go to a dictionary instead of an encyclopedia or scholarly articles.

Makes sense.

Also: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... 1334896265

Oh look at that. Different dictionaries have different definitions. Not biased. At all.

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

In the Dred Scott decision, the Court held that slaves were property.

Property, is something tangible or intangible to which its owner has legal title.

What happens when you don't pay your taxes? Are you forced to pay them by armed agents of the state?

Do they have a legal right to do so, under law?

What is a birth certificate, if not a legal title, by which you are bound to the state...

Why, if we are not "slaves", do I HAVE to pay taxes?

[Genivaria]

Speaking as a socialist, (social democrat, whatever) I have to say I that I find getting my paycheck, cashing it in at my bank, and then ordering a Mcdouble off the dollar menu at McDonald's, WITH MY OWN MONEY.
Is pretty damn satisfying after a life of depending on my mother.

[Raeyh]

You have to work in order to repay your debt to society for taking care of you when you were a kid. The wage is just a nice extra.

[Norstal]

In the Dred Scott decision, the Court held that slaves were property.

Pretty sure we don't uphold that decision anymore.

Property, is something tangible or intangible to which its owner has legal title.

Yes.

What happens when you don't pay your taxes? Are you forced to pay them by armed agents of the state?

1. Evade it.
2. No. A quick google search shows that you can avoid it.

Do they have a legal right to do so, under law?

Yes.

What is a birth certificate, if not a legal title, by which you are bound to the state...

You can always revoke that.

Why, if we are not "slaves", do I HAVE to pay taxes?

Because it's legal and it is not in the law. Moreover, the U.S dollar is not your property. It is a "legal tender" and a "federal reserve note"

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Speaking as a socialist, (social democrat, whatever) I have to say I that I find getting my paycheck, cashing it in at my bank, and then ordering a Mcdouble off the dollar menu at McDonald's, WITH MY OWN MONEY.
Is pretty damn satisfying after a life of depending on my mother.

Exactly the point. Some behavioral analysis's determined (long ago) that workers (slaves), produced much more for the bankers/corporations (slave owners), if they were "happy".

So if the disgusting animal factory filth you call a "burger", given to you for an overcharge way above its actual price, makes you work harder.......

Then why not... Hell, I am sure the Neo Feudalistic rulers are just peachy letting you eat their garbage.

While we are at it, might want to thank them for what they are putting in your water also. Hydrofluorosilicic Acid, or wast from the industrial super phosphate industry (aluminum/fertilizer plants) is a great teeth whitener I am told...

[Norstal]

Speaking as a socialist, (social democrat, whatever) I have to say I that I find getting my paycheck, cashing it in at my bank, and then ordering a Mcdouble off the dollar menu at McDonald's, WITH MY OWN MONEY.
Is pretty damn satisfying after a life of depending on my mother.

Exactly the point. Some behavioral analysis's determined (long ago) that workers (slaves), produced much more for the bankers/corporations (slave owners), if they were "happy".

So if the disgusting animal factory filth you call a "burger", given to you for an overcharge way above its actual price, makes you work harder.......

Then why not... Hell, I am sure the Neo Feudalistic rulers are just peachy letting you eat their garbage.

While we are at it, might want to thank them for what they are putting in your water also. Hydrofluorosilicic Acid, or wast from the industrial super phosphate industry (aluminum/fertilizer plants) is a great teeth whitener I am told...

Why is it that anarchists like to ruin other people's fun?

[Rick Rollin]

What does "wage slavery" and the cake have in common?

Speaking as a socialist, (social democrat, whatever) I have to say I that I find getting my paycheck, cashing it in at my bank, and then ordering a Mcdouble off the dollar menu at McDonald's, WITH MY OWN MONEY.
Is pretty damn satisfying after a life of depending on my mother.

Exactly the point. Some behavioral analysis's determined (long ago) that workers (slaves), produced much more for the bankers/corporations (slave owners), if they were "happy".

So if the disgusting animal factory filth you call a "burger", given to you for an overcharge way above its actual price, makes you work harder.......

Then why not... Hell, I am sure the Neo Feudalistic rulers are just peachy letting you eat their garbage.

While we are at it, might want to thank them for what they are putting in your water also. Hydrofluorosilicic Acid, or wast from the industrial super phosphate industry (aluminum/fertilizer plants) is a great teeth whitener I am told...

DUM DUM Dum dum!

[Genivaria]

Speaking as a socialist, (social democrat, whatever) I have to say I that I find getting my paycheck, cashing it in at my bank, and then ordering a Mcdouble off the dollar menu at McDonald's, WITH MY OWN MONEY.
Is pretty damn satisfying after a life of depending on my mother.

Exactly the point. Some behavioral analysis's determined (long ago) that workers (slaves), produced much more for the bankers/corporations (slave owners), if they were "happy".

So if the disgusting animal factory filth you call a "burger", given to you for an overcharge way above its actual price, makes you work harder.......

Then why not... Hell, I am sure the Neo Feudalistic rulers are just peachy letting you eat their garbage.

While we are at it, might want to thank them for what they are putting in your water also. Hydrofluorosilicic Acid, or wast from the industrial super phosphate industry (aluminum/fertilizer plants) is a great teeth whitener I am told...

Wow, did I use to sound like this? I apologize to everyone if I ever was this much of a jerk.

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

1. Evade it.
2. No. A quick google search shows that you can avoid it.

Well considering the I.R.S. have been known to pursue people into foreign country's for tax evasion, good luck with that.

You can always revoke that.

Can you still retain your citizenship if you revoke your birth certificate, and other means of identification?

Because it's legal and it is not in the law. Moreover, the U.S dollar is not your property. It is a "legal tender" and a "federal reserve note"

The fact that its legal really has no bearing on the obvious point that its being forcibly applied....

When you are forced to pay a fee, that sometimes impedes one's ability to feed themselves/their family's, its very much a practice of enslavement.

[Bulgislavia]

The banks hold entire populations into servitude. Once you have a mortgage or other forms of debt you have to work and work to pay it off, sometimes you don't even get to pay off your debt in your lifetime. everyone is left caught up in their own lives, distracted and disconnected from each other and from nature and kept silent, obedient and working, working, working for an income.

I have no doubt that in the future assuming humans discover new ideas and ways of organizing society and our current system is resigned to historic holograms the people of the future will look back at our planet and see it as a corrupt dictatorship where some women would mutilate themselves with plastic surgery to fulfill their vanity, preserving their youth, spend $25,000 on new sunglasses and then the biggest drama of the day would be a cat fight with one of her friends and then contrast that to a women in Africa who has to sell one of her children so she can feed the rest of the family and where every day is a struggle to survive.

our society is sick and broken, the sooner it dies the sooner we can usher in something new

hopefully a new system that includes everyone, where everyone can participate, that is fairer and fosters high values of compassion, love, truth, justice and isn't controlled and manipulated by bankers, CEO's and the global elite that perpetuate this unhealthy and harmful status quo

[Nazi Flower Power]

Oh, so definitions mean nothing now?

The fact that the American Heritage Dictionary defines wage slavery, as slavery, is totally irrelevant?

Oh how nice it must be to pluck what you want, and discard what you don't.

Anyways, the definition of the terms to be used is always the beginning of any debate...

If you aren't going to allow me to define the terms, then there is no point in even having this argument.

The thread is asking if wage slavery is equivalent to traditional slavery, not if you ideologues have thrown around enough of this hare-brained rhetoric to get yourselves mentioned in the dictionary.

Some words do not mean the same thing every time you use them. Rich soil and rich people are not rich in the same sense. A claim to land and an ideological claim are not the same thing as an insurance claim.

When someone says "slavery" without specifying "wage slavery" it is generally assumed to be the more traditional definition of slavery, not your left-wing jargon.

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Why is it that anarchists like to ruin other people's fun?

Where do you get the basis for your assumption that I am an anarchist?

I have a perfect understanding of the role laws play in our society, and want nothing more then to keep this current system, and change it.

Not to destroy everything in some adolescent type action.....

Anyways, I understand the inherent dangers presented by an anarchical society. As they say, I can shoot, but I don't have enough ammo.