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Is Prayer Effective on Healing Patients?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Intercessory Prayer.

Hallelujah- Intercessory prayer is religiously effective, no matter what your belief.
12
14%
Halle--wait- Intercessory prayer is only effective for some religious denominations.
5
6%
Neutral- Neutral opinion(s).
0
No votes
Tone it down- It's only effective mentally--there are no religious benefits, it only creates a calm environment for patients.
32
37%
*mumble* Religion- It's not effective in anyway, especially in a religious sense.
23
27%
...Who cares?- Religious or non-religious, I don't care. It's not something that's going to be proven/disproven.
4
5%
Other- I have other opinion(s) that don't match up to the above options.
10
12%
 
Total votes : 86

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Rhodmhire
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Is Prayer Effective on Healing Patients?

Postby Rhodmhire » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:23 pm

Image

No, I'm not a nun. Don't get any ideas.

I just read a small article on the questioning of prayer's effect the patient's process of healing/recovering.

Can Prayer Heal the Sick?
85 percent of physicians polled believed religion and spirituality (including prayer) have a positive influence on health and recovery.
By Robert Shmerling, M.D., Harvard Health Publications

It's an appealing and comforting thought. Friends, family and even total strangers pray for you when you're seriously ill. When you recover, you may be grateful for those prayers. But did they contribute to your recovery? How would you know? Is it a question even worth asking?

Does prayer work?

Praying on another person's behalf to improve their health is called "intercessory prayer." And, believe it or not, researchers have attempted to scientifically study its effects on health and recovery from disease. The results are intriguing:

A 1988 study found that when patients in the hospital with heart disease had prayers said for them, they had less breathing trouble and required less antibiotic therapy than otherwise similar patients for whom prayers were not said.
A study published in 1998 suggested that prayer improved the health of AIDS patients. Although those receiving prayers had no change in an important measure of immune function over the six months of the study, they did have fewer serious illnesses, fewer doctor visits and better mood than those who were not prayed for.
In 1999, patients in a Missouri intensive care unit recovered faster after prayers were said for them compared with those who did not have prayers said. This study was unique due to its size—nearly 1,000 patients—and neither the patients nor their doctors knew which patients had prayers said for them.
A 2001 study published in the Journal of Reproductive Medicine supported intercessory prayer for women who were infertile. In that study, women for whom others prayed became pregnant twice as often as those who were not the recipients of prayer.
Skeptics criticize these studies, suggesting that the study designs were flawed or that something other than prayer could explain the findings.

Several of the best studies of intercessory prayer in recent years have come to the conclusion that it doesn't work. For example:

A 2005 study from researchers at Duke University showed no benefit from distant prayers for patients undergoing high-risk heart procedures.
In 2006, perhaps the largest study of intercessory prayer to date showed no benefit of prayer for 1,802 heart bypass surgery patients. The complication rate was actually a bit higher for those who knew others were praying for them.




My guess is that when a person is ill, it may be comforting to know that others are praying for him or her. Similarly, people praying may feel that they are at least doing what they can to help.

A recent survey of more than 1,100 U.S. physicians found that 85 percent believed religion and spirituality (including prayer) had a positive influence on health and recovery. But, only 6 percent of these doctors believed it had any effect on the "hard" medical endpoints, such as speed of recovery or death. About three-fourths of these doctors thought religion and spirituality helped people cope and maintain a positive outlook. As you might expect, more religious doctors endorsed the value of religious resources, such as prayer, more readily than non-religious doctors.

The bottom line

Is the value of intercessory prayer a myth? Maybe it is. I doubt there will ever be consensus on how to answer this question. But I don't think that's such a problem.

Compared with many other unproven remedies, there is little cost or risk associated with prayer. And at the least, it provides some measure of comfort to both the people praying and the people they are praying for.

I believe that the decision to pray or not pray should be decided by individuals and those praying for them, not researchers. If I controlled the world's research funding, I'd spend it on something other than assessing the value of intercessory prayer. This will never be easily settled. And I'm not sure it should be.


The article is longer than what I posted, I just didn't want to cause people to wait too long to read it and get bored. The main premise of the article is that a (supposed) majority of physicians believe in some form of religion, and that there have been studies that "prove" intercessory prayer is effective.

Although being a Christian myself, I have to say my main concern is this: why even bother? What I'd be arguing are basically the final lines of the article itself,

...the decision to pray or not pray should be decided by individuals and those praying for them, not researchers. If I controlled the world's research funding, I'd spend it on something other than assessing the value of intercessory prayer. This will never be easily settled. And I'm not sure it should be.


I think if you yourself are religious, you put prayer above normal priorites when it comes to its usefulness in healing. And even if you retain a non-religious input, I'd assume the premise would be the comfort gained from knowing people are wishing patients well and hoping they will recover would be of significance to them in some way, which is probably why they would need less therapy or other aids to their mental being.

But again, I think at the end of the day it's not something that should be a major medical focus, since in reality, it's not something that's likely to be proven or disproven anytime soon.

So, thoughts? Do you think it has a religious effect? A mere mental effect? No effect(s) at all?

Do you think prayer is more powerful than people usually assume? Are you on board with Christian Science? (No, you're not, I know you aren't, I won't let you.)

Or are you like me, religious or non-religious, accepting that it's not of medical significance or of concern of medical research?

Just a side-note as well, I haven't figured out how to enable or even use SpellCheck after my laptop hardrive update, so try to ignore spelling/grammar errors, I tried my best to Google some words and even use an SC in a different window, but I don't think I made too many errs.

^Is just to avoid people calling me a hypocrite for transforming Grammar-Nazism into SpellCheck-Nazism recently.

Peace, love, and pie to you all.

Disclaimer: Except the Jews. Freakin' *mumbles* 9/11... *mumbles* Holocaust was a lie... *mumbles*

Disclaimer's Disclaimer: Nah, I love the Jews.

Disclaimer's Disclaimer's Disclaimer: But not the gays.
Last edited by Rhodmhire on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Phenia
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Postby Phenia » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:27 pm

Having a positive attitude is what helps. As long as you're doing what makes you have a more positive outlook about your future, you'll probably be better off than if you don't. Prayer is certainly not in itself "a solution to healing," it is simply one means people use to make themselves feel better.

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Wilgrove
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Postby Wilgrove » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:28 pm

I didn't know healing needed a solution.

Healing is wrong now?

Also I agree with Phenia.
Last edited by Wilgrove on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rhodmhire
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Postby Rhodmhire » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:30 pm

Wilgrove wrote:I didn't know healing needed a solution.

Healing is wrong now?

Also I agree with Phenia.


Changed the title because I know people are going to get the wrong idea from my wording.

Thanks for pointing that out before 'twas too late
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Rhodmhire
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Postby Rhodmhire » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:31 pm

Phenia wrote:Having a positive attitude is what helps. As long as you're doing what makes you have a more positive outlook about your future, you'll probably be better off than if you don't. Prayer is certainly not in itself "a solution to healing," it is simply one means people use to make themselves feel better.


That's the premise I assume most people will take--even if they aren't religious themselves.

And yes, I changed the title, I worded it wrong so it implied a message I didn't mean to imply.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:31 pm

Placebo effect, I believe.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:33 pm

no. prayer has no healing effect.

and it wont get you a pony either.
whatever

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Rhodmhire
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Postby Rhodmhire » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:34 pm

Ashmoria wrote:no. prayer has no healing effect.

and it wont get you a pony either.


But mommy! I want a pony! I really want one and I've been good all year!
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:35 pm

It does have an effect, but it's not large enough to be significant. Otherwise we wouldn't hear all those wonderful stories about Christian Scientist parents on trial for letting their kids die through prayer.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:36 pm

Rhodmhire wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:no. prayer has no healing effect.

and it wont get you a pony either.


But mommy! I want a pony! I really want one and I've been good all year!

maybe jesus will get you one.
whatever

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:40 pm

I find it unlikely.

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:41 pm

If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:42 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.

Or any Atheism, really. :meh:
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:42 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.

That or God doesn't have the time to heal the vast majority of humanity.

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Postby Galloism » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:42 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.


Sometimes people use combinations.

For instance, just because surgery is effective at certain ailments doesn't mean we aren't trying to develop drug treatments or non-invasive methods using radiation or lasers or something to do the same thing, or perhaps assist.

I'm not saying I buy prayer therapy, but they sometimes do it in addition to standard medicinal paths.
Last edited by Galloism on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:43 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.

That or God doesn't have the time to heal the vast majority of humanity.


Then it doesn't have any significant effect.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:43 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.

Or any Atheism, really. :meh:


True, actually.
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Phenia
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Postby Phenia » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:43 pm

Gauthier wrote:It does have an effect, but it's not large enough to be significant. Otherwise we wouldn't hear all those wonderful stories about Christian Scientist parents on trial for letting their kids die through prayer.


These studies show that there is some measurable significance. It's obviously not directly responsible. But as CM points out, the placebo effect. All of this just points to something that isn't a surprise and is fairly well established scientifically: emotions and psychology can affect biological processes.

This doesn't mean we should let Jesus do the healing and teach God in biology class or have doctors prescribe prayers for people.
Last edited by Phenia on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:45 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.

That or God doesn't have the time to heal the vast majority of humanity.


Then it doesn't have any significant effect.

You just don't have enough faith!

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:46 pm

Galloism wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.


Sometimes people use combinations.

For instance, just because surgery is effective at certain ailments doesn't mean we aren't trying to develop drug treatments or non-invasive methods using radiation or lasers or something to do the same thing, or perhaps assist.

I'm not saying I buy prayer therapy, but they sometimes do it in addition to standard medicinal paths.


Right, but if prayer had a significant effectiveness, no other industry would have evolved (certainly, into more than cultish obscurity) - because why would you start cutting people up if you could pray way appendicitis... or start chewing willow bark if you could pray away the pain in your arthritic joints?
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Treznor
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Postby Treznor » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:47 pm


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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:48 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:If prayer had any really significant effect on healing, there wouldn't be any other medical industry.

That or God doesn't have the time to heal the vast majority of humanity.


Then it doesn't have any significant effect.

You just don't have enough faith!


Not 'me', the world. If the vast majority of humanity is having to rely on 'alternative' remedies, the efficacy of prayer being contingent on faith would suggest that the vast majority lacks faith.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:48 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:Right, but if prayer had a significant effectiveness, no other industry would have evolved (certainly, into more than cultish obscurity) - because why would you start cutting people up if you could pray way appendicitis... or start chewing willow bark if you could pray away the pain in your arthritic joints?


Why would we invent drugs to do something when surgery works fine?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Genital Confusions
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Postby Genital Confusions » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:50 pm

All the prayer in the world isn't going to help severed nads grow back.

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:50 pm

Galloism wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:Right, but if prayer had a significant effectiveness, no other industry would have evolved (certainly, into more than cultish obscurity) - because why would you start cutting people up if you could pray way appendicitis... or start chewing willow bark if you could pray away the pain in your arthritic joints?


Why would we invent drugs to do something when surgery works fine?


Based on a false premise.

Curing a headache with a scalpel isn't going to be profitable, 9 times out of 10.
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