NATION

PASSWORD

(PASSED) Condemn Allied States of EuroIslanders

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.
User avatar
Whamabama
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 363
Founded: Feb 04, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

(PASSED) Condemn Allied States of EuroIslanders

Postby Whamabama » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:13 pm

The Security Council,

Noting that Allied States of EuroIslanders is a founding region of The Red Liberty Alliance, which was once an organization dedicated to defending socialist regions against invaders,

Recognizing that a region's forums are not only the halls of government, but also the heart and soul of the community, where the history and culture can be forever memorialized even after the region falls away,

Believing that a region's forum should be respected, and should never be targeted even during the most heated conflicts,

Knowing that the Red Liberty Alliance, headed by soldiers of Allied States of EuroIslanders, completely destroyed the forums, and all content within, of three different regions: DEN, Invaders Army, and The Black Hawks,

Appalled by these actions, and the threats of repeating this against other regions,

Dismayed by Allied States of EuroIslanders bragging about committing this heinous crime,

Hereby Condemns Allied States of EuroIslanders.


For refrence of threats to do it again see http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=604086

for an admission of doing it, and bragging, I give you this.

http://s7.zetaboards.com/FRA/single/?p=8188954&t=8555774

Since I am not sure if this is veiwable to guests or not. Here is a part of it.

Of course while the ADN fielded the bigger army, Blackbird, TPC delegate and RLA director of intelligence, perfected the dark arts of infiltrating invader groups. As Evil Wolf mentions, some of our greatest triumphs involved being completely in control of DEN and sundry other invader groups via our well-placed agents. In terms of counter-intelligence, we were unparalleled, having the IP address for 90% of invaders. We would have continued to control them, restricting them at need, had certain imprudent people at the ADN not decided to out them. So we used our weapon of last resort and absolutely torched the forums they handed over so easily to our people - not once but for a couple of the leading invader groups of the time.
Last edited by Flibbleites on Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

"The sovereignty of one's self over one's self is called 'liberty'."
Founder of Equilism
E-Army Officer
Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms
Equilism's Forum http://www.equilism.org/forum/index.php?act=idx

User avatar
Unibot II
Senator
 
Posts: 3852
Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:23 am

Although I think they (?) have apologized since then, recently; yeah a condemnation seems like the correct sentiments. To explain why we're just getting to it now, perhaps you could mention TPC dispute and how that's resurrected this debate.

Just some considerations,

Recognizing that a region's forums are not only the halls of government, but also the heart and soul centre/home of the community, where the history and culture can be forever memorialized even after the region falls away,

Believing that a region's forum are sacred should be respected, and off limits even should never be targeted even during the most heated conflicts,

^
|
|
|

Switched order to put abstract clauses at the top. There was some awkward word choices like "sacred" and "soul" that I replaced.


Noting that Allied States of EuroIslanders is a (a? or the?) founding region of The Red Liberty Alliance, which was once an organization dedicated to defending socialist regions against invaders,

Knowing that the Red Liberty Alliance, headed by soldiers of Allied States of EuroIslanders, completely destroyed the forums, and all content within (Rule IV violation? You're using the equivocation of "forums" to be legal, can a forum have content?), of three different regions: DEN, Invaders Army, and The Black Hawks,

Appalled by these actions, and the threats of repeating this against other regions,

Dismayed by Allied States of EuroIslanders bragging about committing this heinous crime (Would it matter if they didn't brag?),

Hereby Condemns Allied States of EuroIslanders.
Vocenae wrote:Unibot, you have won NS.
General Halcones wrote:Look up to Unibot as an example.
Member of Gholgoth | The Capitalis de Societate of The United Defenders League (UDL) | Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL?
World Assembly Card Gallery // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78;
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Ananke II
Envoy
 
Posts: 297
Founded: Mar 15, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ananke II » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:53 am

Rather ancient history there, guys. Must be a slow week in the Security Council. :P

User avatar
Whamabama
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 363
Founded: Feb 04, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Whamabama » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:43 am

I don't have alot of time, I am a bit sleepy, and it's late.

However I do want to say a few things.

(Would it matter if they didn't brag?),



Rather ancient history there, guys. Must be a slow week in the Security Council.


It does matter that they bragged, as well as threatened to repeat the actions. Because that's a very important reason for this condemnation. Also why TPC isn't being condemned. Also it was TPC that appologized, though they wouldn't be condemned anyway as I have never saw them even talk about it. It's because ASE has been bragging about it, and threatening to do it again. That is why I feel there is a need of a condemnation. Otherwise I would agree that it's ancient history.

I think there needs to be something said that these types of actions will not be celibrated, will not be tolerated, and we will do what we can to punish those who do this.


Uni, I'll look at your suggestions in more depth tommorrow, when I can concentrate more on them.
Last edited by Whamabama on Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

"The sovereignty of one's self over one's self is called 'liberty'."
Founder of Equilism
E-Army Officer
Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms
Equilism's Forum http://www.equilism.org/forum/index.php?act=idx

User avatar
Ballotonia
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5327
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Ballotonia » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:36 am

Since the commentary (bragging, threatening to do it again) have been made by Eurosoviets personally, and not as a formal statement by the region, how come you're targeting ASE instead of Eurosoviets?

Ballotonia
"Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen, dan dooft het licht…" -- H.M. van Randwijk

User avatar
Whamabama
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 363
Founded: Feb 04, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Whamabama » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:28 pm

Unibot, I think most of your suggestions are good. I'll change to reflect it. With one exception. I believe content is not a violation of Rule 4.

In keeping with the rule 4 variant of what a "forum" is. Not an off site forum, but the forums of government, this would be like a capital building, or a collection of buildings. Buildings have contents, so if someone was to blow up said buildings, and nothing inside was salvageable, it could be said that they destroyed the forums of government, and all contents within.
At least that is my thinking. I am sure a MOD can tell us more clearly though.

Balltonia, I thought about condemning Eurosoviets instead of Allied States of EuroIslanders for the very reason you said. I was actually a little torn over the decision. My conclusion was by doing the region, it's more visible, bigger impact. I also didn't want to ignore the actual act which is perhaps more suited to being a regional condemn. Though I do want to stress the recent things as being the catalysts for the condemnation.

"The sovereignty of one's self over one's self is called 'liberty'."
Founder of Equilism
E-Army Officer
Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms
Equilism's Forum http://www.equilism.org/forum/index.php?act=idx

User avatar
Drop Your Pants
Minister
 
Posts: 3463
Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:08 pm

Whamabama wrote:Balltonia, I thought about condemning Eurosoviets instead of Allied States of EuroIslanders for the very reason you said. I was actually a little torn over the decision. My conclusion was by doing the region, it's more visible, bigger impact. I also didn't want to ignore the actual act which is perhaps more suited to being a regional condemn. Though I do want to stress the recent things as being the catalysts for the condemnation.


So your condemning nations of the region who weren't around back then for something they might know even know about?
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

User avatar
Unibot IIX
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Oct 18, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot IIX » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:28 pm

Whamabama wrote: At least that is my thinking. I am sure a MOD can tell us more clearly though.


I'd go for a mod ruling. But yep I wouldn't disagree. If a forum's "interior" can be changed to pink [1], a forum's content should be able to be destroyed.

User avatar
Connopolis
Minister
 
Posts: 2371
Founded: May 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Connopolis » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:33 pm

Unibot IIX wrote:
Whamabama wrote: At least that is my thinking. I am sure a MOD can tell us more clearly though.


I'd go for a mod ruling. But yep I wouldn't disagree. If a forum's "interior" can be changed to pink [1], a forum's content should be able to be destroyed.


I'm not a big fan of R4 in general, but I have to second that. I rely on precedent when it comes to these things, but a mod ruling's always good to be safe.

OOC: It's VIII, not IIX. :blush:
From the office of,
Mrs. Pamela Howell
GA Ambassador of the Connopolian Ministry of Foreign Affairs


User avatar
Mahaj WA Seat
Minister
 
Posts: 2091
Founded: Nov 03, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj WA Seat » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:04 pm

Drop Your Pants wrote:
Whamabama wrote:Balltonia, I thought about condemning Eurosoviets instead of Allied States of EuroIslanders for the very reason you said. I was actually a little torn over the decision. My conclusion was by doing the region, it's more visible, bigger impact. I also didn't want to ignore the actual act which is perhaps more suited to being a regional condemn. Though I do want to stress the recent things as being the catalysts for the condemnation.


So your condemning nations of the region who weren't around back then for something they might know even know about?

This.

And this seems to be really old, and I thought the whole 'hold TPC' thing was about this?

Seems like enough is enough, even though it is forum destruction.

Opposed.
Member of The South and Osiris
Representing Mahaj in the World Assembly.
The Mahaj Factbook.


Author of Missing Minors Act (Repealed) and In Regards to Cloning
Mike the Progressive wrote:
Brogavia wrote:Fuck bitches, get money.
You shall be my god.

Georgism wrote:Fuck off you cunt, I'm always nice.

NERVUN wrote:Yog zap!

Cool Egg Sandwich wrote:I am the Urinater..... I'll be back.

Jedi Utopians wrote:5) Now, saying that a nation couldn't be part of OPEC would be bold. AIPEC sounds like something you'd want to get checked out by a physician for.


User avatar
Whamabama
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 363
Founded: Feb 04, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Whamabama » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:28 pm

Mahaj WA Seat wrote:
And this seems to be really old, and I thought the whole 'hold TPC' thing was about this?

Seems like enough is enough, even though it is forum destruction.

Opposed.



This isn't TPC.

Also really old? Aug 07 2011, and 35 days ago respectivly. Not old. The forum destruction sure, but not the bragging, not the threats, those are recent. Because of recent things is why this has been written.

"The sovereignty of one's self over one's self is called 'liberty'."
Founder of Equilism
E-Army Officer
Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms
Equilism's Forum http://www.equilism.org/forum/index.php?act=idx

User avatar
Ballotonia
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5327
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Ballotonia » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:24 pm

Whamabama wrote:Also really old? Aug 07 2011, and 35 days ago respectivly. Not old. The forum destruction sure, but not the bragging, not the threats, those are recent. Because of recent things is why this has been written.


The recent stuff wasn't done by ASE. It was done by Eurosoviets.

Ballotonia
"Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen, dan dooft het licht…" -- H.M. van Randwijk

User avatar
Unibot II
Senator
 
Posts: 3852
Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:59 pm

Connopolis wrote:OOC: It's VIII, not IIX. :blush:


OOC: Someone impersonated me I believe, so I took IIX. Besides the one with the least amount of characters makes more sense. :P
Last edited by Unibot II on Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vocenae wrote:Unibot, you have won NS.
General Halcones wrote:Look up to Unibot as an example.
Member of Gholgoth | The Capitalis de Societate of The United Defenders League (UDL) | Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL?
World Assembly Card Gallery // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78;
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Evil Wolf
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1983
Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:33 am

Defenders side stepping the issue of forum destruction by trying to scapegoat an individual instead of placing the blame with the group at large? Boy this feels familiar, I think I've seen this somewhere else before I just...can't seem to remember where...Oh well, it will come to me I'm sure.
Last edited by Evil Wolf on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's ok! You can trust me! I've been Commended!

Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

User avatar
Of crazed
Envoy
 
Posts: 202
Founded: Mar 13, 2005
Corporate Police State

Postby Of crazed » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:27 pm

There is NO way that what the RLAI did were isolated incidents that happened 3 times, spaced out over years, and in the case of DEN and Invaders took years to plan.

ASE's world factbook entry brags their membership in the RLA, despite knowing the crimes of the RLA, despite seeing their ally, TPC fall for the same thing. If a region can't be accountable for what is said in their WFE for years, then why hold a region accountable for anything.

User avatar
Face Dancers
Attaché
 
Posts: 96
Founded: Dec 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Face Dancers » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:47 am

hey ho let's go. condemn these mothers.
Forever TBH


Unibot II wrote:TITO doesn't deploy against active raider delegates usually -- it's bad for morale, you're more likely to lose.

Just Guy wrote:On the other hand though, the UDL doesn't do defences because their troops are too lazy to watch and be online a whole update.

User avatar
Cinistra
Diplomat
 
Posts: 863
Founded: Oct 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Cinistra » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:07 am

Whamabama wrote:
Mahaj WA Seat wrote:
And this seems to be really old, and I thought the whole 'hold TPC' thing was about this?

Seems like enough is enough, even though it is forum destruction.

Opposed.



This isn't TPC.

Also really old? Aug 07 2011, and 35 days ago respectivly. Not old. The forum destruction sure, but not the bragging, not the threats, those are recent. Because of recent things is why this has been written.

Is bragging condemnable? If so, the threshold for being condemned is rather low. And if so, why aren't we condemned? We brag and threaten people on every raid. This is discrimatory indeed >:(.
"Send forth all legions! Do not stop the attack until the city is taken! Slay them all!"
>Can I invade other people's regions?

Yes. The practice of "region crashing," where a group of nations all move to a region with the aim of seizing the WA Delegate position, is part of the game. Certain groups within NationStates are particularly adroit at this, and can attack very quickly.
>Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?

You can try. Invader Delegates tend to have very little Regional Influence, which makes ejecting long-time residents difficult. But Delegates can be as kind, generous, evil, or despotic as they wish. It's up to regional residents to elect good Delegates.

User avatar
Drop Your Pants
Minister
 
Posts: 3463
Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:04 am

Of crazed wrote:ASE's world factbook entry brags their membership in the RLA, despite knowing the crimes of the RLA, despite seeing their ally, TPC fall for the same thing. If a region can't be accountable for what is said in their WFE for years, then why hold a region accountable for anything.


EuroSoviets controls the WFE not the region :P
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

User avatar
Evil Wolf
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1983
Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:50 pm

Ah yes, its clearly Eurosoviets fault for all the forum destruction, not anyone else in that region, no one else was at all involved in those griefings. Just like how when Rougiers greifed those defender forums Defenders blamed only Rougiers and not Unknown as a whole, which is why no WA Condemnation was passed against Unknown that specifically mentioned Rougiers.

Nope, never happened.
It's ok! You can trust me! I've been Commended!

Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

User avatar
Kshrlmnt
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 420
Founded: Feb 06, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Kshrlmnt » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:12 pm

Ballotonia wrote:Since the commentary (bragging, threatening to do it again) have been made by Eurosoviets personally, and not as a formal statement by the region, how come you're targeting ASE instead of Eurosoviets?

Ballotonia

The blame for the actions does not rest on many of the members of the region; it is quite possible to be unaware of the issue of forum destruction, past or present. If this were the sole consideration, I would certainly support condemning ES over the ASE as a whole.

However, the comments made publically by the ASE's leader, both admitting to, condoning, and threatening forum destruction, are what makes this a regional issue. There was no objection made to the statements by the native population, who by the nature of their placement can no longer be assumed to be unaware of this position. It is, if not a vocal support for the beliefs, certainly a tolerance.

As far as TPC goes, if I'd seen comments and reactions like this in the 9 months I spent there, I wouldn't have given them a chance to apologize; I would've started the banjections as soon as I had sufficient influence.
Elindra Kshrlmnt Dion Diablessa
Lady of Loquacity and Archempress of Unknown

Mistress of the lolcats, Secretary of NS Disney, Author of Ask Ellie, Victim of the illustrious Flag Thief, Member of PETI
She whose name can too be pronounced

Koth - Last Monday at 9:38 AM
I get sad when I offend elindra because I don't intend to yet I will do absolutely nothing to prevent it

User avatar
Drop Your Pants
Minister
 
Posts: 3463
Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:28 pm

Evil Wolf wrote:Ah yes, its clearly Eurosoviets fault for all the forum destruction, not anyone else in that region, no one else was at all involved in those griefings. Just like how when Rougiers greifed those defender forums Defenders blamed only Rougiers and not Unknown as a whole, which is why no WA Condemnation was passed against Unknown that specifically mentioned Rougiers.

Nope, never happened.

Which current members of ASE were involved in the forum attacks, besides ES?
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

User avatar
The Wreaked
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Aug 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Wreaked » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:08 pm

Forum destruction is just as bad as region destruction. I strongly support the Condemnation of EuroSoviets.

User avatar
Evil Wolf
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1983
Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:53 pm

Drop Your Pants wrote:Which current members of ASE were involved in the forum attacks, besides ES?


Anyone who was a member of the RLA when they destroyed the DEN forums, TBH forum, or, yes, even the Invader Army forums, although they backtracked on their initial story in that case when the defender community turned against them. Defenders for their part, I might add, were far too eager to snap up even the flimsily of denials and quickly accepted TRF's "punishment". But really, even if those old nations are not currently in ASE anymore, it shouldn't matter.

ASE still stands by the same principle as they always have, and they have done monstrous things as the central region in the RLA in the past. Time has not changed anything, lets not pretend that simply because their unrepentant deeds happened a while back that they are no longer applicable today.
Last edited by Evil Wolf on Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's ok! You can trust me! I've been Commended!

Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

User avatar
Ballotonia
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5327
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Ballotonia » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:46 pm

Evil Wolf wrote:
Drop Your Pants wrote:Which current members of ASE were involved in the forum attacks, besides ES?


Anyone who was a member of the RLA when they [...]


That's a general qualifier, not an actual answer to the question. Names, names, we want names!

Ballotonia
"Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen, dan dooft het licht…" -- H.M. van Randwijk

User avatar
Drop Your Pants
Minister
 
Posts: 3463
Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:10 am

He doesn't have any :P You can normally tell he's fishing when he starts going on about defenders as a whole
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to WA Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads