Palestine and Israel

[Pesda]

I've seen a few people here post about the controversy surrounding Israel and Palestine (following Obama's comments, for example), but I think there should be a thread asking the question: Does Israel have the right to exist, and under what borders?

I know that this is a liberal leaning forum, and this might just end up with almost all of us posting 'Ebil Israel! Ebil America! Ebil west!', but in my opinion, a Jewish state should exist. Israel may have arguably done bad things as a country, with the USA vetoing any sanctions against them, but does that mean the Jews shouldn't have a nation for themselves?

My history may not be as good as I'd like it to be, so I've not entirely made up my mind, but my current opinion is like Obama's: start negotiating from the pre-1967 borders. Of course, since I don't know much about the subject, I'd like to learn more before deciding what I think would be best.

So what do you think?

[Enadail]

Why would liberals be opposed to Israel existing?

Anyway, I think faults have been made on both sides, and the fact that both sides are uncompromising, I wish I could say scrap both governments, make a compromise, and start over. Given that's not feasible, I wish we could get them to actually see the other group as human.

[Arilando]

I allways side with israel.

[Valdanis]

I am of the opinion that Israel should return to the borders that existed at the conclusion of the Yom Kippur War and that Palestine should be recognised as a state. I don't support either side, I find it hard to empathise with people who fight over worthless dirt because they both believe their god gave it to them.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I don't care anymore. People have been fighting eachother on that strip of land for thousands of years. They seem to like it. The only real travesty is that we're funding it.

[Pesda]

Why would liberals be opposed to Israel existing?

In my experience, the liberals are usually the most Israel-suspicious. Not that all of them are, but most liberals I've met favour Palestine.

[Romalae]

I think Palestine and Israel need to start figuring out how to live with each other and deal with each other for the time being. But since that won't happen, I think we need to see Israel become a lot smaller and allow Palestine to establish its own nation with some of the lands it had before Israel came along.

[Pesda]

I don't care anymore. People have been fighting eachother on that strip of land for thousands of years. They seem to like it. The only real travesty is that we're funding it.

Who are we?

[Beinai]

I thought Bruno solved this with his song

[Mirkana]

I tend to side with the Israeli left. Give up most of the West Bank, keep some of the major settler blocks and Jerusalem, make land swaps to compensate, Israel and Palestine join together and take over the world... did I say that last part out loud?

[Libertarian Mesa]

It is the land of Israel, the Jews.

[Enadail]

Why would liberals be opposed to Israel existing?

In my experience, the liberals are usually the most Israel-suspicious. Not that all of them are, but most liberals I've met favour Palestine.

Wait... how does favoring Palestine lead to opposing Isreal existing? Can we only have one? Maybe its not what you meant, but in your OP, the way you put it seemed to imply that liberals oppose Isreal existing.

[Tuthina]

Israel should exist with the border prior to the Six-Day War, and leave the rest to Palestine. However, given that both sides are basically trying to eradicate and/or assimilate each other, I think peace is not going to happen very soon. Sometimes I think UN should has its PKO there, but it's not going to happen.

[Russame]

Regardless if Israel should exist or not, I would feel bad for the poor bastard who would have to inform them that they no longer live in their own nation.

[Tehraan]

It is the land of Israel, the Jews.

They both live there now. The Majority of Jews are east and central Europeans that migrated. That ethnic group hasn't lived their for over 1900 years. The Palastinians can trace their existence back to that place a little less but still longer that 1000 years. The Land doesn't belong to someone based on some ancient history. Both both live their now and they both seed to live with each other.

[Sorratsin]

Whether Israel has right to exist or not is pretty much irrelevant. The Israelis are there, and they cannot be removed without creating another humanitarian nightmare. I do think a two-state solution is the only means of creating peace between Israel and Palestine, but I doubt it's ever going to happen.

Both sides want war, and they're obviously going to get it. I do sympathize with the Palestinians more so than the Israelis, considering their reasons for fighting are more understandable.

[Pesda]

In my experience, the liberals are usually the most Israel-suspicious. Not that all of them are, but most liberals I've met favour Palestine.

Wait... how does favoring Palestine lead to opposing Isreal existing? Can we only have one? Maybe its not what you meant, but in your OP, the way you put it seemed to imply that liberals oppose Isreal existing.

Yeah, maybe I could of said that in a difference way... I didn't try to imply that liberals oppose Israel existing. But I do think that liberals are more sympathetic towards the Palestinians than some. And you are right, that dosn't mean anti-Israel.

[Genesikos]

Israel fought hard for the territory it has now. The Jews have endured centuries of oppression, long before Rome designated their homeland as Palestine; and if the Palestinians and Israelis really want peace, they will find a compromise that is both rational, and one that will allow both nations to grow prosper as neighbors.

Besides. Jewish culture is more similar to Muslim in the Middle East than Christianity. so they may as well find they like similar things in the end.

[Genivaria]

A *Israel and Palestine both suck* option should be nice.

[Osterveim]

Why would liberals be opposed to Israel existing?

In my experience, the liberals are usually the most Israel-suspicious. Not that all of them are, but most liberals I've met favour Palestine.

same here.


In my opinion, Isreal would be better for the region and for the USA.

Also if the palistinians asked for peace and laid down their weapons, the fighting would be all oiver next teusday. If the israelis did that, there would be a genocide against the jews of the region!

They support the USA, therefore I support them.

[Hippostania]

Israel shouldn't exist, it's Palestinian land and it belongs to the Palestinians. However, jews do need and deserve a nation of their own, and I think that Russia could donate this piece of land for the New Israel.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I don't care anymore. People have been fighting eachother on that strip of land for thousands of years. They seem to like it. The only real travesty is that we're funding it.

Who are we?

For the most part, the US, Russia and Western Europe.

[Osterveim]

Regardless if Israel should exist or not, I would feel bad for the poor bastard who would have to inform them that they no longer live in their own nation.

as would I!

[Libertarian Mesa]

It is the land of Israel, the Jews.

They both live there now. The Majority of Jews are east and central Europeans that migrated. That ethnic group hasn't lived their for over 1900 years. The Palastinians can trace their existence back to that place a little less but still longer that 1000 years. The Land doesn't belong to someone based on some ancient history. Both both live their now and they both seed to live with each other.

Palestinians, however, were not locals.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

I have no sympathy for Israel. They forced themselves into the land in 1948, they can handle the consequences of their actions. Once they stop bulldozing Palestinian settlements to build parks on them I might think a bit differently. Racist governments aren't my cup of tea.