Should the World Recognise An Independant Palestinian State?

[Prismos]

The Palestinian Authority are going to make a unilateral declaration of independance in September rallying support from nation to recognise it. Isn't it about time the World recognised the State of Palestine on 67 borders?

[Ashmoria]

a tiny state composed of 2 seperate territories doesnt seem particularly viable to me.

what will the borders be?

[Prismos]

Erm, have I not stated pre-67 borders?

[Fson]

yes, and step in to protect them if the Israeli's want to continue their psuedo-holocaust.

[Prismos]

I think they should to bystep the negotiation freeze (which Is Israel's fault due to settlements).

It seems like the Israelis are the peace refuseniks here.

[Call to power]

Not from what I hear

And no -starting with Israel not being too keen on such a state having full independence moving on to the fact that there is no consensus within Palestine as to what this declaration would be (such as the usual suspect arguing for the destruction of Israel)

[New Manvir]

I've entirely stopped caring about both sides of this pointless conflict.

[Call to power]

I've entirely stopped caring about both sides of this pointless conflict.

shh it keeps naive riot types both occupied with a pointless cause and gets a shit-ton of arab men laid in the west.

[New Manvir]

I've entirely stopped caring about both sides of this pointless conflict.

shh it keeps naive riot types both occupied with a pointless cause and gets a shit-ton of arab men laid in the west.

Really?

I think I could pass myself off as Arab...

[Greater Tezdrian]

No, there is and has never been a Palestinian state or people. Israel is the only legit state that occupies that land.

[Ashmoria]

Erm, have I not stated pre-67 borders?

then no the world should not recognize them as an independent state.

i did wonder what "67 borders" meant. i was pretty sure they didnt have that many.

[Call to power]

Really?

aye wear a Palestinian flag as a scarf whilst talking about some horrible childhood fighting 'the man' and you will be beating the 18-25 demographic off with a stick

just remember to swap off terms involving killing the Jews with the term Zionists

I think I could pass myself off as Arab...

certainly better than the shoe polish complete with story about life in the Congo

I like how a thread on Palestine has been hijacked

No, there is and has never been a Palestinian state or people. Israel is the only legit state that occupies that land.

not really the legal issue is to do with the terms of mandates in the region and the support for a partition of the land into two states, course international law may not be a good idea for you to go into if you want to reject a plan for independence

[Angleter]

No. We should wait until an actual peace settlement and the creation of an actual Palestinian State first. Of course, I have my own reservations since I don't believe in a two-state solution. The only way to give the Jews their Jewish state and the Arabs their Arab one, to ensure stability in the region and to satiate Israel's security concerns, and to give the Palestinian Arabs their best chance of prosperity, is to have a three-state solution.

Thereby Egypt annexes Gaza and Jordan the West Bank (with hefty compensation for their assumption of responsibility for the areas), a population exchange is made between the Jewish settlers who'd rather be Israeli and the Arab Israelis who'd rather live in an Arab state, the minorities in both states are guaranteed protection and full rights, and Israel keeps East Jerusalem (otherwise they'll never accept a peace deal, and the Jordanians are probably more likely than the PNA to make such a concession).

Oh, and if the PNA really are going to go UDI in September, then they're complete bloody idiots.

[Greater Tezdrian]

The Arabs have their own states. Egypt, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan... the list goes on. They're are Arabs and aren't different from any other Arab. Israel and Jews is a different kettle of fish.

[Angleter]

The Arabs have their own states. Egypt, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan... the list goes on. They're are Arabs and aren't different from any other Arab. Israel and Jews is a different kettle of fish.

I'd dispute this, since I believe that Arabs are fooling themselves when they proclaim a single identity (of course, this single identity is conveniently dropped when they talk of 'the Palestinians'), but the Gazans are no different dialectically/linguistically from Sinaians/East Egyptians, nor are the West Bankers from other Levantine Arabs, especially Jordanians.

[Risottia]

The Palestinian Authority are going to make a unilateral declaration of independance in September rallying support from nation to recognise it. Isn't it about time the World recognised the State of Palestine on 67 borders?

I guess so, since it's what the UN has been saying many times for many years.

[Prismos]

No. We should wait until an actual peace settlement and the creation of an actual Palestinian State first. Of course, I have my own reservations since I don't believe in a two-state solution. The only way to give the Jews their Jewish state and the Arabs their Arab one, to ensure stability in the region and to satiate Israel's security concerns, and to give the Palestinian Arabs their best chance of prosperity, is to have a three-state solution.

Thereby Egypt annexes Gaza and Jordan the West Bank (with hefty compensation for their assumption of responsibility for the areas), a population exchange is made between the Jewish settlers who'd rather be Israeli and the Arab Israelis who'd rather live in an Arab state, the minorities in both states are guaranteed protection and full rights, and Israel keeps East Jerusalem (otherwise they'll never accept a peace deal, and the Jordanians are probably more likely than the PNA to make such a concession).

Oh, and if the PNA really are going to go UDI in September, then they're complete bloody idiots.

That's a Zionist dream.

Ethnically cleanse "Eretz Israel" and the Western Mandate.

[Greater Tezdrian]

Ethnically cleanse "Eretz Israel" and the Western Mandate.

[Prismos]

The Arabs have their own states. Egypt, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan... the list goes on. They're are Arabs and aren't different from any other Arab. Israel and Jews is a different kettle of fish.

I'd dispute this, since I believe that Arabs are fooling themselves when they proclaim a single identity (of course, this single identity is conveniently dropped when they talk of 'the Palestinians'), but the Gazans are no different dialectically/linguistically from Sinaians/East Egyptians, nor are the West Bankers from other Levantine Arabs, especially Jordanians.

Incorrect Gazan "Arabs" are the same as West Bank "Arabs", Palestinians genetically and historically.

[Angleter]

No. We should wait until an actual peace settlement and the creation of an actual Palestinian State first. Of course, I have my own reservations since I don't believe in a two-state solution. The only way to give the Jews their Jewish state and the Arabs their Arab one, to ensure stability in the region and to satiate Israel's security concerns, and to give the Palestinian Arabs their best chance of prosperity, is to have a three-state solution.

Thereby Egypt annexes Gaza and Jordan the West Bank (with hefty compensation for their assumption of responsibility for the areas), a population exchange is made between the Jewish settlers who'd rather be Israeli and the Arab Israelis who'd rather live in an Arab state, the minorities in both states are guaranteed protection and full rights, and Israel keeps East Jerusalem (otherwise they'll never accept a peace deal, and the Jordanians are probably more likely than the PNA to make such a concession).

Oh, and if the PNA really are going to go UDI in September, then they're complete bloody idiots.

That's a Zionist dream.

Ethnically cleanse "Eretz Israel" and the Western Mandate.

If the Zionists dream to live in a peaceful and threat-free Israel, then indeed it is. I said nothing about 'ethnic cleansing'- I made it perfectly clear that the population transfer would be voluntary- and would expect at least half of all Arab Israelis to opt to remain in Israel. I also made it perfectly clear that Israel's borders, with the exception of the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem, would not extend beyond the Green Line, and as far as I recall both 'Eretz Israel' and the 'Western Mandate' extend well beyond the borders I specified.

[Greater Tezdrian]

Palestinians genetically and historically.

FAIL. There has never been a historic Palestinian identity, nor an ethnic one beyond superfluous tribal differences.

[Angleter]

I'd dispute this, since I believe that Arabs are fooling themselves when they proclaim a single identity (of course, this single identity is conveniently dropped when they talk of 'the Palestinians'), but the Gazans are no different dialectically/linguistically from Sinaians/East Egyptians, nor are the West Bankers from other Levantine Arabs, especially Jordanians.

Incorrect Gazan "Arabs" are the same as West Bank "Arabs", Palestinians genetically and historically.

Er, no. Take a look at this map of the Arab peoples. Look very close at Gaza. What colour is Gaza? Oh look, it's pale green! What else is pale green? That's right, Sinai and East Egypt! Granted, a small part of the West Bank and of the Aqaba region are also light green, but these little border discrepancies are replicated across the map (some Algerians speaking Moroccan Darija and vice versa, large parts of Egypt being Libyan-speaking, etc.).

The "Palestinian" cultural bloc came into existence only really after the creation of the Mandate of Palestine in 1921, and only became popularised after the rise of Israel in the late '40s. Genetically, I think you could appreciate that the whole Southern Levant (Sinai, Israel/Palestine, Jordan, and parts of Syria) is going to have a roughly similar genetic background (Jews included), and it's ludicrous to suggest that there is going to be any big genetic difference within the borders of the Western Mandate.

Of course, Arab identity was pretty much the sole ethnocultural identity among Palestinian Arabs pre-Mandate, and pre-Israel the Palestinian identity was firmly subsidiary to Arabism- simply put, the anti-Zionist lobby spoke not for 'Palestine', which was considered a geographic term, but for 'Arab Palestine', which suggested Arab ethnic identity above all. The Palestinian Arabs, of course, are Arabs, and I see no reason why you'd put 'Arabs' in inverted commas to that extent. And before you say it, my reference to 'Palestinians' in inverted commas was to effect my disputing the notion of a 'Palestinian' ethnic identity and the notion that Palestinian Arabs are any more 'Palestinian' than the area's Jewish inhabitants (ie. Israelis).

[Prismos]

Palestinians genetically and historically.

FAIL. There has never been a historic Palestinian identity, nor an ethnic one beyond superfluous tribal differences.

FAIL on your side.

The Palestinian identity pre-dates modern Israel. It has been shaped by Palestinian nationalism but there is evidence of Palestinian identity within the British mandate.

[Greater Tezdrian]

FAIL. There has never been a historic Palestinian identity, nor an ethnic one beyond superfluous tribal differences.

FAIL on your side.

The Palestinian identity pre-dates modern Israel. It has been shaped by Palestinian nationalism but there is evidence of Palestinian identity within the British mandate.

Sauce?

[Prismos]

Incorrect Gazan "Arabs" are the same as West Bank "Arabs", Palestinians genetically and historically.

Er, no. Take a look at this map of the Arab peoples. Look very close at Gaza. What colour is Gaza? Oh look, it's pale green! What else is pale green? That's right, Sinai and East Egypt! Granted, a small part of the West Bank and of the Aqaba region are also light green, but these little border discrepancies are replicated across the map (some Algerians speaking Moroccan Darija and vice versa, large parts of Egypt being Libyan-speaking, etc.).

The "Palestinian" cultural bloc came into existence only really after the creation of the Mandate of Palestine in 1921, and only became popularised after the rise of Israel in the late '40s. Genetically, I think you could appreciate that the whole Southern Levant (Sinai, Israel/Palestine, Jordan, and parts of Syria) is going to have a roughly similar genetic background (Jews included), and it's ludicrous to suggest that there is going to be any big genetic difference within the borders of the Western Mandate.

Yes but both West Bank and Gazan people are classed as Palestinians, as I understand of the 1.6 million in the Gaza Strip, 1.0 are considered Palestinian refugees.

Regardless of historic longevity and roots, the Palestinian ethnicity exists.

The Zionist denial of such is to have an excuse for domination and subjugation of an equally native people.