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School and education in general

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Billingsburg
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School and education in general

Postby Billingsburg » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:42 pm

School. Defined on The Free Dictionary.com as an institution for the instruction of children or people under college age. It has been used since the dawn of time to educate young people to be able to improve society. In China, the civil service exams were a vital part of who gets government jobs and passage of these intense exams was honored among the community (Chinese Civil Service). In Roman times, most boys were educated and most lessons were based on fear. All lessons were learned by heart because books were just too expensive (Roman Education). In both these societies, good grades in school and exams were greatly valued. Unfortunately this isn’t always the case and something called grade inflation has been taking America by storm.

According to an article on The Nevada Sagebrush, grades in many colleges in the U.S. have been on the rise since early 1960s. This is just speculation as all the data available only goes back to about 1990. According to Grade Inflation.com, the average GPA for all American Colleges and Universities during the 1991-1992 school year was 2.93, a low b high c average. By the 1996-1997 school year, this was up to a 2.99 average. Later in 2001-2002 year, the average was a 3.07 and in 2006-2007 the average was all the way up to a 3.11. This is a huge difference considering this is every university in the nation lowering standards to improve grades. The University of Nevada, Reno, for example as seen in increase in the amount of “A”s given out in the past 15 years of about 7%. This is about 1000 more people getting “A”s than 15 years ago. There are a few main reasons behind this that include pressure to keep students at the University, better teacher evaluations, and the changing grading policies and standards (Schiming).

So why should people care about school? People flat out should NOT care about school because of this rampent grade inflation and well it’s just plain boring. All this grade inflation means is that the perfect “A” really isn’t worth it anymore. Why try for anything that, if this keeps up, will just practically be given away in 15 more years. This means that in a while, grade standards to get into colleges will go down or even go away because the grades don’t mean anything because they are just giving “A”s away. Also, school is just plain boring so why pay attention to something that is boring. As many people ask in math and English, among other subjects, when will we even use some of that crap? Who needs to know how to write a sarcastic ciceronian when all that you will do is turn it in and forget all about it? What is the point? That is exactly the point; there is NO point to school at all.

As in everything on the planet, there is always an opposite side to this argument. There are people that would say that school actually DOES matter. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the average salary of people with less than a high school diploma is about $42,882 lower than someone with a Graduate Degree (The Big Payoff). With a Professional Degree, the difference can be as high as $86,200. Based on education on a large scale, the countries near the bottom of the GDP per capita list have less education and literacy rates for their country (Country Comparison).

But who cares? A world without education would mean freedom! Just think about it. Being able to sleep in everyday and get enough sleep. Hang with friends every day. Teenagers have jobs now so there would be no worries that you wouldn’t be able to find a job if you wanted one because there would be no education requirements because no one has education. No pressure from parents to get better grades and no stress from finals at all!

So what? In reality you really shouldn’t care about school. It doesn’t matter at all. With things like grade inflation, grades are meaningless and because of this, why care?



Works Cited

“The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings.” U.S. Census Bureau. N.p., July 2002. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf>.

"Chinese civil service." Encyclopædia Britannica. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. Encyclopædia Britannica, 2011. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/112424/Chinese-civil-service>.

“Country Comparison - GDP per capita.” The World Factbook. Central Intellegence Agency, n.d. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html>.

Cuerden, Jerri, et al. “Rising trend: Grade inflation.” The Nevada Sagebrush. University of Nevada, Reno, 1 Dec. 2009. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://nevadasagebrush.com/blog/2009/12/01/rising-trend-grade-inflation/>.

Rojstaczer, Stuart. “Grade Inflation at American Colleges and Universities.” Grade Inflation. N.p., 2002. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://gradeinflation.com/>.

“Roman Education.” History Learning Site. N.p., 2011. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/roman_education.htm>.

Schiming, Richard C. “Grade Inflation Article.” Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning. Minnesota State University Mankato, 2011. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.mnsu.edu/cetl/teachingresources/articles/gradeinflation.html>.

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Ossumnia
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Postby Ossumnia » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:55 pm

Yeah! School sucks!

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Syvorji
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Postby Syvorji » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:56 pm

School is really important because we learn math, reading, English, Korean and heck, many other things. They are even social laboratories that we learn to have problem-solving and problem-having skills. Without school, the Earth will be like how Africa is now and Africa will be like before man left Africa.

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Postby West Guiana » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:58 pm

Syvorji wrote:School is really important because we learn math, reading, English, Korean and heck, many other things. They are even social laboratories that we learn to have problem-solving and problem-having skills. Without school, the Earth will be like how Africa is now and Africa will be like before man left Africa.

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Syvorji
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Postby Syvorji » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:59 pm

West Guiana wrote:
Syvorji wrote:School is really important because we learn math, reading, English, Korean and heck, many other things. They are even social laboratories that we learn to have problem-solving and problem-having skills. Without school, the Earth will be like how Africa is now and Africa will be like before man left Africa.

Why do I feel your a racist person?

I am not racist, I am an anti-Imperialist. School is important, because it makes you support North Korea, so we will not be dirt-poor. Right? Right. -nods-

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Vlorkidor
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Postby Vlorkidor » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:59 pm

Y'all dunt ned thee edukatians unyway.

You have no idea how hard buchering the English language was for me just to insult you.
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Khamerut
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Postby Khamerut » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:00 pm

interesting article but the whole point of going to school is to learn, as long as you learn and you can use that piece of knowledge then the school is doing its job. its not always about getting 100 percent all the time.
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Ryadn
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Postby Ryadn » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:02 pm

A world without education is free, huh?

Well, for my part, I sincerely encourage you to follow your heart and stay away from school if it impinges so harshly on your freedom. There are many, many other people who would be happy to take your place; people who would make the most of their opportunities, instead of wasting everyone's time. I much prefer to have a class full of students who are interested in learning.
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Xujiang-Jorehm
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Postby Xujiang-Jorehm » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:02 pm

School sucks, but yea, i got two more years. F**k college. Im gonna party all f**king night! 8)

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Ossumnia
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Postby Ossumnia » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:06 pm

So, just to put things in perspective, I happen to know the original poster IRL. This essay is a ciceronian oration. We both had to write one. IT IS SATIRE. It's all sarcasm. Don't take it seriously. Seriously.

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:10 pm

Ossumnia wrote:So, just to put things in perspective, I happen to know the original poster IRL. This essay is a ciceronian oration. We both had to write one. IT IS SATIRE. It's all sarcasm. Don't take it seriously. Seriously.

Not that good of satire. Needs to brush up a bit. Try reading Swifts "Modest proposal" and work through other similar works to get a really good idea of satire.
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Billingsburg
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Postby Billingsburg » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:10 pm

Just as the argument got going you had to spoil it didn't you Ossumnia? I thought it was funny how many people took me seriously.

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Billingsburg
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Postby Billingsburg » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:10 pm

The Corparation wrote:
Ossumnia wrote:So, just to put things in perspective, I happen to know the original poster IRL. This essay is a ciceronian oration. We both had to write one. IT IS SATIRE. It's all sarcasm. Don't take it seriously. Seriously.

Not that good of satire. Needs to brush up a bit. Try reading Swifts "Modest proposal" and work through other similar works to get a really good idea of satire.


Hey it was decent enough for an 11th grade english class and a decent grade so it worked for me

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Postby Norstal » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:15 pm

Ossumnia wrote:So, just to put things in perspective, I happen to know the original poster IRL. This essay is a ciceronian oration. We both had to write one. IT IS SATIRE. It's all sarcasm. Don't take it seriously. Seriously.

Godamnit don't ruin it for the rest of us.

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Last edited by Norstal on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:17 pm

Since I'm big on progress and a supporter of not returning to the Dark Ages, I'd say education is pretty important.

EDIT: Also, you're going to a profoundly shitty school if grade inflation is so severe it dilutes the quality of your education.
Last edited by Vetalia on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby NERVUN » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:19 pm

I'm torn between either :clap: or :eyebrow: in your citing of the Sagebrush of all things as a source.
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Postby Siorafrica » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:31 pm

Dead bloody horse but anyway.

Slavery in theory is horrible but in practice it's even worse as the enslavers make escape as tough a barrel to look down as remaining enslaved. The worst form of slavery is where one thinks one has a clearcut chance but in relaity one is being forced to choose between a rock and a hard face.
At the age of 5 one enters Junior Infants and from then until the age of 15 is foced to go to school and even if one knows school is crap there's nothing one can do because leaving school is illegal and anyway nobody in our western world listens to under 18s anyway.
At the age of 15 one has the choice of taking the risk of putting up with the continued psychological pain of school or risking unemployment or a low wage.
At the age of 18 if one has gotten a bad Leaving Certificate one might aswell have left at 15 because one faces the same situation as leaving at 15. If one has gotten a good Leaving Cert it's time for 45 years of wage slavery.
At 65 it's time to retire and risk that the pension will be enough or continue living in wage slavery.
At 77 one dies.
There you have it, 4 years of freedom and 73 of slavery.
Needless to say the winedossers need only be enslaved for 10 years and free for 67. A winedosser is what I call someone who is born into such riches that they needn't work a day in their lives and they probably don't. Because of capitalism this inequality exists. In capitalism the few get the most money just because they want it while the rest have to either rely completely on the state or work just to have a little. Capitalism is the suppression of the poor by the rich with the middle classes less suppressed so that the winedossers can profit a lot from them yet not push them to rebellion. The Axis teaches people that financial success is the highest success and people believe this outright lie merely because the Axis is conventional and people think that just because something is conventional it is true. Capitalism is about masses, masses of obedient clones, mass production, mass buying, masses of stuff lying around our houses that we didn't need and after a while don't bother with yet were convinced to buy by corporate advertising. School has uniforms, bosses and mindless,obedient,underpaid clone underlings,a start at 9 and a finish at no earlier than 3,deadlines and uniforms just like work at a company. At school the students do most of the work and get no pay whatsoever, the supposed reward is the Leaving Cert which in fact is not a reward.45 years of wage slavery and 12 years of depending on the same state that could have allowed you the breathing room of being more motivated to work knowing you wouldn't be struggling otherwise is not a reward.
School turns people into clones willing to do most of the work for the minority of the money,capitalism makes people happy with their lot because they know they can't improve it much and materialism makes people buy thing after thing time after time whether or not they need them or whether or not they are good for them.
A fine example of the impractical,dogmatic,elitist mentality of school (as if yet another was needed) was this rubbish called the one way system.It was felt by the staff at my secondary school that there was too much traffic in the corridor and so we were supposed to walk to classes rather than a mix of the teachers coming into our base room for most classes and us going to a different room for some classes.This did almost nothing,if anything,to lessen the traffic.What could have been done was the teachers coming to us for every class,about 12 bodies in the corridor at once rather than a few hundred,job done.But no,they made us walk.
Another fine example; in Ireland for every 3 euro spent on primary education 6 euro was spent on secondary education and 12 euro on third level even though one only needs to complete secondary education to have a realistic chance of getting a job in Ireland.This is typical of the ageist culture of the northwestern world; the middle-aged suppose themselves superior to the young and the old based on nothing but vanity.A better idea would have been spending 5 euro on third level,6 euro on primary and 9.5 on secondary.I've seen it myself;my primary school was barely fit for purpose while my secondary school could be described as mediocre.
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Siorafrica
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Postby Siorafrica » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:34 pm

Vetalia wrote:Since I'm big on progress and a supporter of not returning to the Dark Ages, I'd say education is pretty important.

EDIT: Also, you're going to a profoundly shitty school if grade inflation is so severe it dilutes the quality of your education.


The Dark Ages? What a strawman. If kids' parents would just teach them how to read then they could find out whatever school would teach them and then wouldn't have to be bossed around away from home packed in like sardines with people they don't necessarily like.
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Oi with the arguing in circles over the same tired old topic yet again, and the trolling one another on either side with 'who is a real Christian' and 'why your logic sucks'. How about we put this one to bed again. It's going nowhere. You aren't going to change anyone's minds. Stick a fork in it kids - it's done.-Dread Lady Nathanica

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Postby United Dependencies » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:34 pm

Ryadn wrote:A world without education is free, huh?

Well, for my part, I sincerely encourage you to follow your heart and stay away from school if it impinges so harshly on your freedom. There are many, many other people who would be happy to take your place; people who would make the most of their opportunities, instead of wasting everyone's time. I much prefer to have a class full of students who are interested in learning.

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Siorafrica
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Postby Siorafrica » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:36 pm

Thread is a waste of time and original post is neither funny nor Poe's Lawish. Nothing to see here. Move along.
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Oi with the arguing in circles over the same tired old topic yet again, and the trolling one another on either side with 'who is a real Christian' and 'why your logic sucks'. How about we put this one to bed again. It's going nowhere. You aren't going to change anyone's minds. Stick a fork in it kids - it's done.-Dread Lady Nathanica

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Rejaina
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Postby Rejaina » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:36 pm

Billingsburg wrote:School. Defined on The Free Dictionary.com as an institution for the instruction of children or people under college age. It has been used since the dawn of time to educate young people to be able to improve society. In China, the civil service exams were a vital part of who gets government jobs and passage of these intense exams was honored among the community (Chinese Civil Service). In Roman times, most boys were educated and most lessons were based on fear. All lessons were learned by heart because books were just too expensive (Roman Education). In both these societies, good grades in school and exams were greatly valued. Unfortunately this isn’t always the case and something called grade inflation has been taking America by storm.

According to an article on The Nevada Sagebrush, grades in many colleges in the U.S. have been on the rise since early 1960s. This is just speculation as all the data available only goes back to about 1990. According to Grade Inflation.com, the average GPA for all American Colleges and Universities during the 1991-1992 school year was 2.93, a low b high c average. By the 1996-1997 school year, this was up to a 2.99 average. Later in 2001-2002 year, the average was a 3.07 and in 2006-2007 the average was all the way up to a 3.11. This is a huge difference considering this is every university in the nation lowering standards to improve grades. The University of Nevada, Reno, for example as seen in increase in the amount of “A”s given out in the past 15 years of about 7%. This is about 1000 more people getting “A”s than 15 years ago. There are a few main reasons behind this that include pressure to keep students at the University, better teacher evaluations, and the changing grading policies and standards (Schiming).

So why should people care about school? People flat out should NOT care about school because of this rampent grade inflation and well it’s just plain boring. All this grade inflation means is that the perfect “A” really isn’t worth it anymore. Why try for anything that, if this keeps up, will just practically be given away in 15 more years. This means that in a while, grade standards to get into colleges will go down or even go away because the grades don’t mean anything because they are just giving “A”s away. Also, school is just plain boring so why pay attention to something that is boring. As many people ask in math and English, among other subjects, when will we even use some of that crap? Who needs to know how to write a sarcastic ciceronian when all that you will do is turn it in and forget all about it? What is the point? That is exactly the point; there is NO point to school at all.

As in everything on the planet, there is always an opposite side to this argument. There are people that would say that school actually DOES matter. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the average salary of people with less than a high school diploma is about $42,882 lower than someone with a Graduate Degree (The Big Payoff). With a Professional Degree, the difference can be as high as $86,200. Based on education on a large scale, the countries near the bottom of the GDP per capita list have less education and literacy rates for their country (Country Comparison).

But who cares? A world without education would mean freedom! Just think about it. Being able to sleep in everyday and get enough sleep. Hang with friends every day. Teenagers have jobs now so there would be no worries that you wouldn’t be able to find a job if you wanted one because there would be no education requirements because no one has education. No pressure from parents to get better grades and no stress from finals at all!

So what? In reality you really shouldn’t care about school. It doesn’t matter at all. With things like grade inflation, grades are meaningless and because of this, why care?



Works Cited

“The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings.” U.S. Census Bureau. N.p., July 2002. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf>.

"Chinese civil service." Encyclopædia Britannica. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. Encyclopædia Britannica, 2011. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/112424/Chinese-civil-service>.

“Country Comparison - GDP per capita.” The World Factbook. Central Intellegence Agency, n.d. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html>.

Cuerden, Jerri, et al. “Rising trend: Grade inflation.” The Nevada Sagebrush. University of Nevada, Reno, 1 Dec. 2009. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://nevadasagebrush.com/blog/2009/12/01/rising-trend-grade-inflation/>.

Rojstaczer, Stuart. “Grade Inflation at American Colleges and Universities.” Grade Inflation. N.p., 2002. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://gradeinflation.com/>.

“Roman Education.” History Learning Site. N.p., 2011. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/roman_education.htm>.

Schiming, Richard C. “Grade Inflation Article.” Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning. Minnesota State University Mankato, 2011. Web. 12 Mar. 2011. <http://www.mnsu.edu/cetl/teachingresources/articles/gradeinflation.html>.


Isn't grade inflation just people getting smarter and actually working for grades just cause the GPA goes up doesn't mean it's easier to get in college
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Beldonia
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Postby Beldonia » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:38 pm

It's simply a formality. School's too far imbedded in our society to take it out. Students do learn things, including how to get along in the world.

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Xanthal
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Postby Xanthal » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:39 pm

Satire or no, it's a terrible non-sequitur. Good satire actually makes valid arguments, outrageous as they might be. A dis-recommendation of education does not follow from the reality of grade inflation.
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Antilon
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Postby Antilon » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:39 pm

Well, it isn't the best written satire, but it is informative.

7/10

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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:52 pm

Siorafrica wrote:The Dark Ages? What a strawman. If kids' parents would just teach them how to read then they could find out whatever school would teach them and then wouldn't have to be bossed around away from home packed in like sardines with people they don't necessarily like.


I more or less taught myself to read at a very young age, and I can say with 100% confidence I could have never chosen what school to attend with any real confidence. That and the fact that children are entirely immature and lack the long-term mindset and experience to make proper decisions, which is why parents make them for them in regards to schooling and other matters...childrens' minds simply aren't physiologically developed enough for that kind of thinking.
Last edited by Vetalia on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05


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