Suggestion: Remove "Minnow" classification

[Kandarin]

(I posted a version of this last year, but the departure from Jolt and significant pushes for updates, including the Collaborative List, have happened in the meantime, so I'm reposting it here)

One of the major drawbacks of NS, at least for new players, is the steep learning curve. There's a lot to do in the game, much of which is not immediately evident. As feeder regions and recruiters have often learned, NS is pretty intimidating at first glance. This isn't something that can really be eliminated, nor something for which I want to place blame (for it is a consequence of many things that make the game good); it's just an unavoidable fact of the way the game works.

From experience in various feeder regions, I've noticed that a side effect of Influence exacerbates this. Not only do new nations start in vast, impersonal feeder regions, only to be deluged with similarly vast, impersonal recruitment telegrams, but they start with their position in the game universe bluntly displayed: "Minnow". All of the other Influence titles are statements of relative significance, but Minnow is a statement only of the insignificance of a nation. This is often frustrating and disappointing. It is all the more so because nations that choose to move to very large regions or to remain in the Pacifics must wait months or years to be rid of the title. Their only recourse, at present, is to launch a massive, aggressive endorsement-swapping campaign that tends to place them under a great deal of suspicion.

Therefore, I propose that nations that would currently merit the "Minnow" rank should not display the Influence stat at all, until such time as they have enough influence for it to be worth noting (Vassal or above). It would send the same message to those that understand and use Influence ("This nation has very little influence") without passively degrading those that do not understand or use Influence by pointing out their lack of it every time they log in.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

If the influence text labels had to be retained due to coding issues, I was thinking of something less controversial, such as... simply "resident".

[New Emperica]

I fully support your idea Kandarin.

[Allrule]

Well now, this could be interesting...

[Todd McCloud]

Great idea, in my opinion. It *is* demoralizing to see the 'minnow' title, which is why there might be a lot of swappers - no one really wants to be seen as such.

[Topid]

I think it will just cause more confusion for nations who change regions and suddenly their regional influence level gone.

[Kandarin]

I think it will just cause more confusion for nations who change regions and suddenly their regional influence level gone.

Why is that? A blank space would have the same meaning as "Minnow" today.

[Todd McCloud]

True. A blank space would probably be the best thing for a new nation... it takes the pressure off, and the influence would be less... pressing, perhaps?

[Sedgistan]

I don't know if this would be too complicated to code, but maybe this could just apply to nations with a population under 500 million. For those nations who have been around a while, being a 'minnow' isn't an issue.

[Topid]

I think it will just cause more confusion for nations who change regions and suddenly their regional influence level gone.

Why is that? A blank space would have the same meaning as "Minnow" today.

Right, but no one would know that other than the people who have read this thread.

If I hadn't read this and logged on after this was implemented I might think influence had been removed. And then those who move regions will see that there is no influence in this new region...

[Naivetry]

If I hadn't read this and logged on after this was implemented I might think influence had been removed. And then those who move regions will see that there is no influence in this new region...

But if we're talking about genuinely new players, they're not going to know about Influence to start out with.

For those who then enquired, just leaving it blank would mean something like, "You don't have Influence yet." (Which of course wouldn't be quite correct; there are minnows, and there are Minnows... but still.) I'd support this.

[Northern Chittowa]

It is all the more so because nations that choose to move to very large regions or to remain in the Pacifics must wait months or years to be rid of the title. Their only recourse, at present, is to launch a massive, aggressive endorsement-swapping campaign that tends to place them under a great deal of suspicion.

Thats true...Ive had my main WA in Lazarus now for close to a year i believe, probably longer, yet im still classed as a minnow despite that fact and the fact i have 71 endorsements I dont mind it a great deal, yet i can fully understand people getting annoyed at having the title.

[The Bicycle]

Why have it at all for all of us who only "play" the real game, and avoid the whole WA community-based business?

I didn't even know what a "minnow" was (English is not my first language, although I rarely come across words I don't know) so I had to look it up. Having your influence level (that you as a new player don't know the meaning of, or rather lack of meaning of) denoted by a family of fish species, is probably very confusing.

I say remove it for all nations, whatever size, that are NOT WA members.

[The Most Glorious Hack]

Thats true...Ive had my main WA in Lazarus now for close to a year i believe, probably longer, yet im still classed as a minnow despite that fact and the fact i have 71 endorsements I dont mind it a great deal, yet i can fully understand people getting annoyed at having the title.

Huh. My non-WA puppet in Lazarus is a Vassal... of course, it's been there a very, very long time...

[UNIverseVERSE]

Why have it at all for all of us who only "play" the real game, and avoid the whole WA community-based business?

I didn't even know what a "minnow" was (English is not my first language, although I rarely come across words I don't know) so I had to look it up. Having your influence level (that you as a new player don't know the meaning of, or rather lack of meaning of) denoted by a family of fish species, is probably very confusing.

I say remove it for all nations, whatever size, that are NOT WA members.

If the WA delegate of your region were to eject you, the hit to their influence is based on the influence of your nation. It's important whether or not your nation is in the WA.

[The Bicycle]

If the WA delegate of your region were to eject you, the hit to their influence is based on the influence of your nation. It's important whether or not your nation is in the WA.

Then that's a stupid system that needs to be changed as soon as possible, as non-WA nations don't "play" that part of the game. I find the whole WA thing to be really silly. It would be much better to develop the original game idea instead of dumping it all into a poor community-based substitute.

[Enn]

If the WA delegate of your region were to eject you, the hit to their influence is based on the influence of your nation. It's important whether or not your nation is in the WA.

Then that's a stupid system that needs to be changed as soon as possible, as non-WA nations don't "play" that part of the game. I find the whole WA thing to be really silly. It would be much better to develop the original game idea instead of dumping it all into a poor community-based substitute.

There are other reasons to eject a nation. They might be annoying other nations, putting pointless messages on the RMB, ignoring the region's ethos etc.

[The Bicycle]

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that any non-WA nation should not contribute in any way to the WA part of the game.

[UNIverseVERSE]

Then that's a stupid system that needs to be changed as soon as possible, as non-WA nations don't "play" that part of the game. I find the whole WA thing to be really silly. It would be much better to develop the original game idea instead of dumping it all into a poor community-based substitute.

So a nation in (for example) The East Pacific, which isn't a member of the WA, should be unable to be ejected?

[The Bicycle]

I'm not talking about ejection!!!
I'm talking about the influence. A non-WA nation should not add to the influence of the region! Only the WA nations should.

[Gobbannium]

For those who then enquired, just leaving it blank would mean something like, "You don't have Influence yet."

And for those who don't enquire and just explode messily all over the forums yelling "OMG they've taken away influence WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!!11!1"?

Explicit is usually better than implicit. Adjust the wording if you must, but give them an influence rating.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Then that's a stupid system that needs to be changed as soon as possible, as non-WA nations don't "play" that part of the game. I find the whole WA thing to be really silly.

Invading regions isn't a "WA thing"; it's just an added benefit of WA membership. You get to elect the delegate -- whether or not they or you are actually members of the region in question.

Explicit is usually better than implicit. Adjust the wording if you must, but give them an influence rating.

At the risk of disrupting the universe's delicate balance, I have to agree with Gobby here. You can switch the wording for new nations to make their worthlessness even more apparent, like "Fresh Meat" or "Prison Fish" or "Insignificant Plankton" or "Don't Even Have Power Over a Tiny Piece of Lint" or whatever. That way, they'll know from the start that they're doomed to fail, and won't even bother indulging their delusions of grandeur with pointless endorsement-swapping schemes.

(Although, "Fresh Meat" is actually a semi-serious suggestion for classifying new nations, or perhaps "Newbie.")

[Dyr Nasad]

It sounds like some posters are making this a "remove influence" thing...and that will probably not happen, and it detracts from the original topic. I would love to see the minnow classification removed (it would end a good deal of endotarting...)

[Anime Daisuki]

If the influence text labels had to be retained due to coding issues, I was thinking of something less controversial, such as... simply "resident".

'Resident' better than blank. Minnow is at least, something, 'blank' is nothing, and the newbies will start asking tons of questions "hey why don't I have influence? Why is mine blank?"

[Klaus Devestatorie]

agreed on AD's point, but resident doesnt match the other words, find something different.