NATION

PASSWORD

Ron Paul

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Mortshnefran
Envoy
 
Posts: 324
Founded: Apr 20, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Mortshnefran » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:42 pm

Dempublicents1 wrote:
Mortshnefran wrote:it's not the same, as the fetus has an existing reliance on the uterus, while an individual who needs a kidney does not. it would be more akin to compare it to conjoined twins that share a vital organ. can one twin make the decision to kill the other for his own convenience? it's not a perfect analogy but it's the closest i could think of.


Actually, it's a ridiculous analogy, since both of them have the same claim to the organ. The same is not true for my body and anyone else who seeks to lay claim to it.

Here's a better example. Suppose I give blood regularly with a directed donation (a specific patient who needs it). I decide not to give blood anymore. Can they tie me down and drain it out of me because they have an existing reliance on my blood?

And you're shifting the goalposts. If one person's right to life trumps another person's right to bodily integrity, the preexisting reliance thing really shouldn't matter.

i was not comparing the twins to the kidney patient, but the twins to mother and fetus. and no you cant be forced to give organs or blood, and i do believe in a woman's right to have an abortion. i'm simply playing devils advocate as to why it is internally consistent to be a libertarian and pro-life.

Grave_n_idle wrote:Actually, the foetus is attached to the placenta - not the uterus. It is enclosed in the uterus, but that doesn't make it part OF the foetus any more than your bladder is part of your urine.


what is the placenta attached to? the uterus through a molecular bond

and damn it ron paul is a republican not a libertarian!
"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." -G. Gordon Liddy
"If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it."
"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." -Mark Twain

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Dempublicents1
Senator
 
Posts: 3963
Founded: Mar 28, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Dempublicents1 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:46 pm

Mortshnefran wrote:i was not comparing the twins to the kidney patient, but the twins to mother and fetus.


...which is silly. The mother's body is completely and wholly her own. The embryo/fetus is a new entity which is using her body. The body, however, is still completely and wholly her own and therefore she has the highest claim to it.

With conjoined twins, on the other hand, any shared organs are and have always been shared. As such, they have equal claims to said organs.

and no you cant be forced to give organs or blood, and i do believe in a woman's right to have an abortion. i'm simply playing devils advocate as to why it is internally consistent to be a libertarian and pro-life.


But, by your devil's advocate argument, people should be forced to give blood and organs.

what is the placenta attached to? the uterus through a molecular bond


If someone sticks a needle in me, it is attached to my body. That doesn't mean I am part of the needle.
"If I poke you with a needle, you feel pain. If I hit you repeatedly in the testicles with a brick, you feel pain. Ergo, the appropriate response to being vaccinated is to testicle-punch your doctor with a brick. It all makes perfect sense now!" -The Norwegian Blue

"In fact, the post was blended with four delicious flavors of sarcasm, then dipped in an insincerity sauce, breaded with mock seriousness, then deep fried in scalding, trans-fat-free-sarcasm oil." - Flameswroth

User avatar
Mortshnefran
Envoy
 
Posts: 324
Founded: Apr 20, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Mortshnefran » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:59 pm

fuck! >:( there needs to be a shaking fist smiley. i'm tired of arguing this point, because i dont believe it, and now im beginning to see ya'll have a point, that that two positions are mutually exclusive. i hate it when that happens. it is a historic day when my position can be changed.
Last edited by Mortshnefran on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." -G. Gordon Liddy
"If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it."
"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." -Mark Twain

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Dempublicents1
Senator
 
Posts: 3963
Founded: Mar 28, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Dempublicents1 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Mortshnefran wrote:fuck! >:( there needs to be a shaking fist smiley. i'm tired of arguing this point, because i dont believe it, and now im beginning to see ya'll have a point, that that two positions are mutually exclusive. i hate it when that happens. it is a historic day when my position can be changed.


:hug:
"If I poke you with a needle, you feel pain. If I hit you repeatedly in the testicles with a brick, you feel pain. Ergo, the appropriate response to being vaccinated is to testicle-punch your doctor with a brick. It all makes perfect sense now!" -The Norwegian Blue

"In fact, the post was blended with four delicious flavors of sarcasm, then dipped in an insincerity sauce, breaded with mock seriousness, then deep fried in scalding, trans-fat-free-sarcasm oil." - Flameswroth

User avatar
Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43029
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:01 pm

Mortshnefran wrote:fuck! >:( there needs to be a shaking fist smiley. i'm tired of arguing this point, because i dont believe it, and now im beginning to see ya'll have a point, that that two positions are mutually exclusive. i hate it when that happens. it is a historic day when my position can be changed. i need to think on this more.


I've changed positions a couple of times on NS forums. I consider it a good thing, if it's the right thing. :)
WASSER IST LEBEN

User avatar
Melkor Unchained
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Melkor Unchained » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:51 pm

Dempublicents1 wrote:
From a purely legal standpoint, the man has the exact same reproductive rights as the woman - the right to determine the extent to which his body participates in the reproductive process. It's due to biology that his participation is such a small part of the process, not the law.


That's a load of horse shit and anyone with a neuron and an axon to rub together for warmth knows it. If abortion procedures did not exist, this would be 100% true. But because they do, the decision to get one is ultimately the woman's, not the man's.

I seriously don't understand how you could type this with a straight face.
Last edited by Melkor Unchained on Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

User avatar
Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43029
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:03 pm

Melkor Unchained wrote:
Dempublicents1 wrote:
From a purely legal standpoint, the man has the exact same reproductive rights as the woman - the right to determine the extent to which his body participates in the reproductive process. It's due to biology that his participation is such a small part of the process, not the law.


That's a load of horse shit and anyone with a neuron and an axon to rub together for warmth knows it. If abortion procedures did not exist, this would be 100% true. But because they do, the decision to get one is ultimately the woman's, not the man's.

I seriously don't understand how you could type this with a straight face.


Men are allowed to abort all the foetuses in their bodies, just as women are.
WASSER IST LEBEN

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Dyakovo » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:10 pm

Mortshnefran wrote:the uterus is just as much a part of a fetus as it is a mother.

That would only be true if the mother didn't have a uterus until the fetus formed.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
Melkor Unchained
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Melkor Unchained » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:38 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Men are allowed to abort all the foetuses in their bodies, just as women are.

Hahaha, true enough :lol2:
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

User avatar
Bluth Corporation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6849
Founded: Apr 15, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Bluth Corporation » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:44 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:If you take the premise that my rights end when yours begin - and that IS the argument that is being used to justify why a foetus gets to claim uterus space, then OBJECTIVELY you have to allow that to be applied both ways - otherwise, it's just intellectual dishonesty.


If I own a house and sign an agreement allowing you to live in it, and part of the agreement stipulates that I am not allowed to unilaterally cancel it, am I entitled to unilaterally cancel it?
The Huge Mistake of Bluth Corporation
Capital: Newport Beach, Shostakovich | Starting Quarterback: Peyton Manning #18 | Company President: Michael Bluth

Champions of: World Bowl X


You should really be using Slackware

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Dyakovo » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:15 pm

Bluth Corporation wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:If you take the premise that my rights end when yours begin - and that IS the argument that is being used to justify why a foetus gets to claim uterus space, then OBJECTIVELY you have to allow that to be applied both ways - otherwise, it's just intellectual dishonesty.


If I own a house and sign an agreement allowing you to live in it, and part of the agreement stipulates that I am not allowed to unilaterally cancel it, am I entitled to unilaterally cancel it?

That would be comparable if fetus had such an agreement with the person they occupy...
However, they do not.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
The Cat-Tribe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5548
Founded: Jan 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:21 pm

Melkor Unchained wrote:I'm not going to get too far into this since most of you already know where I stand (and the "Ron Paul hates freedom" arguments are pretty loltastic)


Setting aside your silly and sexist argument about male ownership of fetuses, I apologize for being so unfair to Ron Paul.

I mean it isn't fair to call him a racist just because he has published extremely racist statements under his name.

It isn't fair to call him racist just because he opposes civil rights, particularly the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

It isn't fair to call him racist just because he opposes equal protection under the law.

It isn't fair to call him racist just because he has proposed racist legislation on numerous occassions.

I mean we don't have actual videotape of him lynching a black man while using racial epithets. So it's unfair.

Similarly, just because he would strip people of constitutional rights and allow state governments to infringe on freedom doesn't make him anti-freedom or anti-constitution.

Just because he has voted for legislation that he himself said was unconstitutional because it fit his personal agenda, doesn't make him anti-constitution.

Just because he opposes the 14th Amendment doesn't mean he is against constitutional rights.

Why are people so unfair to St. Paul?
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

User avatar
Allanea
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23209
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Allanea » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:27 pm

It isn't fair to call him racist just because he opposes civil rights, particularly the Civil Rights Act of 1964.


The CRA-64 is opposed by many people not because they are racist, but because they are opposed to those clauses of the Act that regulate private entities. It is completely possible to oppose these statutes - as I do - and not be racist.
#HyperEarthBestEarth

Sometimes, there really is money on the sidewalk.

User avatar
Melkor Unchained
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Melkor Unchained » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:54 pm

I ain't biting this time, Cat-Tribe. Your opinions about Ron Paul are as misguided and ridiculous as they were the last time I tried to pound the truth into that skull of yours.
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

User avatar
The Cat-Tribe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5548
Founded: Jan 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:00 pm

Allanea wrote:
It isn't fair to call him racist just because he opposes civil rights, particularly the Civil Rights Act of 1964.


The CRA-64 is opposed by many people not because they are racist, but because they are opposed to those clauses of the Act that regulate private entities. It is completely possible to oppose these statutes - as I do - and not be racist.


Um. Perhaps you missed the point. There is a pattern of behavior. Arguably one can take some of the positions and do some of the things Ron Paul has without being racist per se*, but not when one takes them as a whole.

*Opposing the CRA-64 is not necessarily racist. It does show a lack of commitment to racial equity, however.
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

User avatar
The Cat-Tribe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5548
Founded: Jan 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:03 pm

Melkor Unchained wrote:I ain't biting this time, Cat-Tribe. Your opinions about Ron Paul are as misguided and ridiculous as they were the last time I tried to pound the truth into that skull of yours.


:rofl:

Actually, this "I won't argue because you are too wrong and there is no point" has been your consistent default position when discussing Ron Paul. I've looked at some of the prior discussions recently and you deliberately have avoided actually defending Ron Paul except in the very abstract.

But, whatever. You can deify the man all you want. The truth shines through.
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

User avatar
Melkor Unchained
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Melkor Unchained » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:06 pm

The Cat-Tribe wrote:
Melkor Unchained wrote:I ain't biting this time, Cat-Tribe. Your opinions about Ron Paul are as misguided and ridiculous as they were the last time I tried to pound the truth into that skull of yours.


:rofl:

Actually, this "I won't argue because you are too wrong and there is no point" has been your consistent default position when discussing Ron Paul. I've looked at some of the prior discussions recently and you deliberately have avoided actually defending Ron Paul except in the very abstract.

But, whatever. You can deify the man all you want. The truth shines through.

There's a reason for that. It's because I think the country ought to be moving generally in that direction, but the haters out there (yourself included) are married to the idea of tying me down to every single thing he's ever said/done. I pointed this out probably a half dozen times last time we went over this, but you were happy to ignore it along with just about everything else.
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

User avatar
The Cat-Tribe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5548
Founded: Jan 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:18 pm

Melkor Unchained wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:
Melkor Unchained wrote:I ain't biting this time, Cat-Tribe. Your opinions about Ron Paul are as misguided and ridiculous as they were the last time I tried to pound the truth into that skull of yours.


:rofl:

Actually, this "I won't argue because you are too wrong and there is no point" has been your consistent default position when discussing Ron Paul. I've looked at some of the prior discussions recently and you deliberately have avoided actually defending Ron Paul except in the very abstract.

But, whatever. You can deify the man all you want. The truth shines through.

There's a reason for that. It's because I think the country ought to be moving generally in that direction, but the haters out there (yourself included) are married to the idea of tying me down to every single thing he's ever said/done. I pointed this out probably a half dozen times last time we went over this, but you were happy to ignore it along with just about everything else.


That's fine. But us "haters" look at the wide range of issues where we believe his positions are not just wrong, but dangerous or evil.

You can like many of his positions without excusing his racism or his other positions. I may not understand why a libertarian would support someone that, for example, doesn't believe in seperation of Church and State or in the right to privacy, but you don't have to justify yourself to me.

What I object to (and I recognize that I do something similar) is your smug, "I'm right and you are just being ridiculous, but I don't need to explain why" attitude about it. But, again, you don't have to justify it. Just don't expect everyone else (or anyone else) to agree with cursory, undefended statements.
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

User avatar
Melkor Unchained
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Melkor Unchained » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:36 pm

Fair enough, but I can find for you (if you'd like) paragraphs upon paragraphs of antecedent "justifications." Just because I'm not doing it right now doesn't mean I never have--I've no intention of beating that dead horse any further; I think we both know where I stand on this. I think Ron is a generally good guy who gets a bad rep--and I've yet to run into a black man who thinks he's racist--that commentary almost always comes from white middle class folks who are hypersensitive to issues of race. A few weeks after the New Republic printed its character assassination piece, the Austin NAACP director conducted a radio interview to the effect that Ron was being smeared by the opposition. It comes as no surprise that the interview got no coverage or recognition, but I'm pretty sure it's on YouTube somewhere. Who do we honestly expect to know more about Ron's racial beliefs? A Canadian-owned publication a thousand miles away, or someone (a black man, no less) in his own community?
Last edited by Melkor Unchained on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

User avatar
Colonic Immigration
Minister
 
Posts: 3337
Founded: Mar 29, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Colonic Immigration » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:39 pm

Who?
RoI
Economic Left/Right: -5.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97
Western Mercenary Unio - Yeah, you kinda make idiocy an art

Haikus are easy,
They don't always make much sense,
Refrigerator

User avatar
The Cat-Tribe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5548
Founded: Jan 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:50 pm

Melkor Unchained wrote:Fair enough, but I can find for you (if you'd like) paragraphs upon paragraphs of antecedent "justifications." Just because I'm not doing it right now doesn't mean I never have--I've no intention of beating that dead horse any further; I think we both know where I stand on this. I think Ron is a generally good guy who gets a bad rep--and I've yet to run into a black man who thinks he's racist--that commentary almost always comes from white middle class folks who are hypersensitive to issues of race. A few weeks after the New Republic printed its character assassination piece, the Austin NAACP director conducted a radio interview to the effect that Ron was being smeared by the opposition. It comes as no surprise that the interview got no coverage or recognition, but I'm pretty sure it's on YouTube somewhere. Who do we honestly expect to know more about Ron's racial beliefs? A Canadian-owned publication a thousand miles away, or someone (a black man, no less) in his own community?


First, I love how you would cite a local NAACP president as an authority on racism. Convenient, isn't it? I know you usually defer to the NAACP on racial issues. :roll:

Second, you can try ad hominem attacks on The New Republic, but that conspicuously ignores the content of the piece -- the undeniably racist statements printed under Ron Paul's name in his own newsletter.

Third, I made a point of not relying just on the newsletter contents as evidence of Ron Paul's racism. Again, there is a pattern of behavior to go along with that.

Fourth, I'm afraid I'm never going to agree that a consistent opponent of civil rights is a "good guy" who is just being smeared by "hypersentive" liberals.

Finally, although his racism is one of the reasons I loathe Ron Paul, his consistent opposition to constitutional freedoms is a tad bit disturbing.
Last edited by The Cat-Tribe on Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

User avatar
Allanea
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23209
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Allanea » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:28 pm

First, I love how you would cite a local NAACP president as an authority on racism. Convenient, isn't it? I know you usually defer to the NAACP on racial issues. :roll:


It is very useful, since he's arguing with YOU, and YOU respect the NAACP.

Fourth, I'm afraid I'm never going to agree that a consistent opponent of civil rights is a "good guy" who is just being smeared by "hypersentive" liberals.


No, it is YOU who claim he is a consistent opponent of civil rights. Opposing the CRA-64 does not opposition of civil rights make. Suggesting Federal courts have overstepped their bounds does not opposition of civil rights make.
#HyperEarthBestEarth

Sometimes, there really is money on the sidewalk.

User avatar
Melkor Unchained
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Melkor Unchained » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:30 pm

:palm:

If you're going to accuse someone of being a racist, logic would dictate you'd listen to the people he's accused of being racist against. I'm not seeing any terrific minority outcry over Paul and his policies, and like I said earlier I've met waaaaayyyy more white guys who thought he was racist than black guys. I know my own personal experience is circumstantial at best, but its been my experience that the white middle class in this country is still carrying racial baggage from 150+ years ago. My best friend is black, and when we get together and drink (or ingest other chemical compounds :oops: ) race relations is a favorite topic of ours. He says he still comes across racism on a more or less daily basis, but I think we agree that it's remarkably over-politicized these days.

Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at accusing me of ad hominem against a magazine. All media outlets (and this isn't unique to that publication by any means) have an agenda of some sort, and that they're left-leaning is certainly not up for debate. Anything they have to say about their potential political opponents should be taken with a grain of salt, and I'd be glad to say the same if the shoe were on the other foot. Paul's newsletter, for example, is quite certainly published with the intention of promoting his policies as well. It's just the nature of the beast.
Last edited by Melkor Unchained on Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

User avatar
Mortshnefran
Envoy
 
Posts: 324
Founded: Apr 20, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Mortshnefran » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:34 pm

here is link to one of the newsletters http://www.tnr.com/downloads/sponraceterrorism.pdf i haven't read the whole thing yet my opinion so far is that while i can see how it could fall on liberal ears as not showing the proper racial sensitivity, it is not "racist"

edit** ok finished the whole thing, and yes there are some phrases and sentences that might be racist. but over all he makes some decent points.
Last edited by Mortshnefran on Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." -G. Gordon Liddy
"If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it."
"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." -Mark Twain

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Melkor Unchained
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Ron Paul

Postby Melkor Unchained » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:42 pm

Mortshnefran wrote:here is link to one of the newsletters http://www.tnr.com/downloads/sponraceterrorism.pdf i haven't read the whole thing yet my opinion so far is that while i can see how it could fall on liberal ears as not showing the proper racial sensitivity, it is not "racist"


Didn't you get the memo? Slavery was so terrible, you can say anything you want against whites and it's not racism. If blacks oppose gay marriage 8:1 (which they did as recently as 2008) it's called "conservative values." When whites vote against gay marriage, it's "bigotry." What's happening here is the American white middle class is falling all over itself to prove how not racist it is by responding as violently as possible to this kind of talk. Welcome to America! :clap:
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aclion, Akrisen, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, CARRIPUE, Des-Bal, Drongonia, Estanglia, Gormwood, Grinning Dragon, Hijjma, Ifreann, Indo-Malaysia, Joushiki Nante Iranai, Kragholm Free States, LiberNovusAmericae, Novus America, Paradeavenlisian States, Proctopeo, RinaStyles, Roman Resurgence, San Lumen, Slongs, The Alma Mater, The Emerald Legion, The Greater Ohio Valley, The Rich Port, The Windmilluminati, The Xenopolis Confederation, Window Land, Zrhajan

Advertisement

Remove ads