NS Military Realism Consultation Thread

by **DASHES** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:06 pm

Welcome.

Come here to get your questions answered about the realism/plausibility of any aspect/unit/item/etc. of your Nation's Armed Forces.

Keep the really bulky stuff like pics and details in Spoilers, please. Also, be respectful and patient.

Of course, anyone can answer, as well as ask. It'll work something like Wiki Answers. Lets help each other.

Well that's enough. Lets learn how to improve our units. Knowing is half the battle.

NS Forever...

by **DASHES** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:24 am

I'll start with the first question:

Below are proposed supply lists for all the equipment both basic soldiers of my nation will be carrying, as well as Special Forces.
I would like an opinion. Are these lists realistic for a modern Infantryman/Special Forces Operative?

(Wearable Sleeping Bag)

(Contains 2 Washcloths, a bar of soap, and 1 Brass cleaning rod. Can be used for soldier Hygiene, weapon cleaning, or [usually] both.)

(Full of water)

(Enough for 1 change-of-clothes)

----------------------------------------------------

Spec-Ops Package (Includes everything needed for a wide variety of missions):

(Wearable Sleeping Bag)

(Full of water)

(For High-Value files, items, etc.)

(For ripping data from a computer/server quickly, or physically uploading a virus to enemy systems, depending on the Flash Drive's contents and the mission)

(With Wi-Fi, Pre-Downloaded Database of Intel on Enemy positions/tech/ weaponry, and built-in Radio Transmissions System)

----------------------------------------------------

BDU Supply List (Combat supplies strapped onto user's tactical body armor. Used with either the Infantry Backpack or the Spec-Ops Package):

(Can hold 8 5.56x45mm Magazines OR 6 AK47/74 Magazines OR 2 200-Rd. LMG Belts)

(Improved First Aid Kit)

(Can holster any weapon with a pistol grip, including stockless Shotguns/Carbines)

by **Crookfur** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:49 am

This docuemnt should help you with loadouts etc:

http://thedonovan.com/archives/modernwa ... Report.pdf

by **DASHES** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:35 pm

Crookfur wrote:This docuemnt should help you with loadouts etc:

http://thedonovan.com/archives/modernwa ... Report.pdf

Darn it. It seems like I have an extremely basic list of supplies compared to the combat load lists of that link.
Thanks man. That was just what I needed.

by **Lazssia** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:52 pm

I need some advice, I'v always been fascinated with the military and thus I enjoy researching things such as tactics, ammunition,weapons and so on. However, I'v always been most interested with infantry and armor, and thus I'm not that very knowledgeable on naval or air force info. What I'm asking is, how strong of a navy should a PMT nation with a pop 880+million such as my self have?
Mainly:
1. the number of ships ( including submarines) should I have total. ( I guess this would depend on how strong my economy is how much I spend on industry and defense)
2. The number of ships I should have per classification. ( number of destroyers,number of carriers,number of frigates etc.)
3. The number of personnel would I need to operate these ships. ( mainly depending how many ships)
4. how many ships should be active, and how many ships be put in reserve?

Sorry if this is too long, but I need to know so that when I'm in war a RP, and it's time deploy my navy, I don't end up with an unpractical number and look like an idiot.

by **Crookfur** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:15 pm

Lazssia wrote:I need some advice, I'v always been fascinated with the military and thus I enjoy researching things such as tactics, ammunition,weapons and so on. However, I'v always been most interested with infantry and armor, and thus I'm not that very knowledgeable on naval or air force info. What I'm asking is, how strong of a navy should a PMT nation with a pop 880+million such as my self have?
Mainly:
1. the number of ships ( including submarines) should I have total. ( I guess this would depend on how strong my economy is how much I spend on industry and defense)
2. The number of ships I should have per classification. ( number of destroyers,number of carriers,number of frigates etc.)
3. The number of personnel would I need to operate these ships. ( mainly depending how many ships)
4. how many ships should be active, and how many ships be put in reserve?

Sorry if this is too long, but I need to know so that when I'm in war a RP, and it's time deploy my navy, I don't end up with an unpractical number and look like an idiot.

You are bumping into one of the most difficult issues faced when coming up with an NS navy.

The simpliest answer is that if you are looking at a power projection carrier based navy then just take the USN (being the only real carrier based navy of a modern nature) and scale appropriatly i.e. working on a basis of roughly 1 carrier battle group/carrier strike group per 30-60million head of population.
Typically each carrier group would consist of a carrier plus 4-6 escorts (cruisers, destroyers and frigates), a replenishement vessel and possibly an SSN. Naturally not all your naval vessels will be tied to the carrier groups as there are amphibeous groups and specialist small task force or lone ship deployments to consider, again scaling the USN would address alot of these.

Of coruse most of that only really helps if you are going for a bottom up appraoch, an alternative to deciding overall numbers is discussed here: htt78 but even it really needs you to fill in the blanks yourself.

I appologise if i've made things even more confusing but as i said it is a very trick issue to deal with even when sticking to roughly MT standards. Simpliest method is just make up carrier group/task forces as you go and gradually combine them over time into a bigger picture.

by **Lazssia** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:25 pm

Crookfur wrote:
Lazssia wrote:I need some advice, I'v always been fascinated with the military and thus I enjoy researching things such as tactics, ammunition,weapons and so on. However, I'v always been most interested with infantry and armor, and thus I'm not that very knowledgeable on naval or air force info. What I'm asking is, how strong of a navy should a PMT nation with a pop 880+million such as my self have?
Mainly:
1. the number of ships ( including submarines) should I have total. ( I guess this would depend on how strong my economy is how much I spend on industry and defense)
2. The number of ships I should have per classification. ( number of destroyers,number of carriers,number of frigates etc.)
3. The number of personnel would I need to operate these ships. ( mainly depending how many ships)
4. how many ships should be active, and how many ships be put in reserve?

Sorry if this is too long, but I need to know so that when I'm in war a RP, and it's time deploy my navy, I don't end up with an unpractical number and look like an idiot.

You are bumping into one of the most difficult issues faced when coming up with an NS navy.

The simpliest answer is that if you are looking at a power projection carrier based navy then just take the USN (being the only real carrier based navy of a modern nature) and scale appropriatly i.e. working on a basis of roughly 1 carrier battle group/carrier strike group per 30-60million head of population.
Typically each carrier group would consist of a carrier plus 4-6 escorts (cruisers, destroyers and frigates), a replenishement vessel and possibly an SSN. Naturally not all your naval vessels will be tied to the carrier groups as there are amphibeous groups and specialist small task force or lone ship deployments to consider, again scaling the USN would address alot of these.

Of coruse most of that only really helps if you are going for a bottom up appraoch, an alternative to deciding overall numbers is discussed here: ht8 but even it really needs you to fill in the blanks yourself.

I appologise if i've made things even more confusing but as i said it is a very trick issue to deal with even when sticking to roughly MT standards. Simpliest method is just make up carrier group/task forces as you go and gradually combine them over time into a bigger picture.

Thanks, this actually might help a bit, it was a little confusing, but I appreciate the effort none the less.

by **DASHES** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:07 pm

Lazssia wrote:I need some advice, I'v always been fascinated with the military and thus I enjoy researching things such as tactics, ammunition,weapons and so on. However, I'v always been most interested with infantry and armor, and thus I'm not that very knowledgeable on naval or air force info. What I'm asking is, how strong of a navy should a PMT nation with a pop 880+million such as my self have?
Mainly:
1. the number of ships ( including submarines) should I have total. ( I guess this would depend on how strong my economy is how much I spend on industry and defense)
2. The number of ships I should have per classification. ( number of destroyers,number of carriers,number of frigates etc.)
3. The number of personnel would I need to operate these ships. ( mainly depending how many ships)
4. how many ships should be active, and how many ships be put in reserve?

Sorry if this is too long, but I need to know so that when I'm in war a RP, and it's time deploy my navy, I don't end up with an unpractical number and look like an idiot.

Although I think Crookfur gave a good response, I'd like to add my own viewpoint:

The Number and Type of ships you should have should really depend of the personality of your Nation, and the combat doctrine/philosophy of your nation.
Also, how much of your Military budget is invested into your Navy? Aircraft Carrier and large/nuclear-powered Submarines are incredibly expensive, so you will only have a small handful of them.

Like Crookfurt said, you're going to have to fill in many blanks. However, decide what kind of Navy you want:
Do you like employing horde tactics and heavy firepower? Then use several Light/Medium Battleships supported by lots of Frigates and Corvettes to protect them.
Do you prefer getting close to the enemy shore by sea and unleashing airborne devastation to secure beachheads? In that case, try a primary fleet of 1 Aircraft Carrier, several Frigates, and many Support vessels (As a rule, your # of Support ships should be x3 your # of combat ships). Include Infantry Transports too.
If you prefer stealth and efficiency, use a combination of Submarines and Cruisers. If you like horde tactics too, use many Midget Submarines instead a few Nuclear Submarines.

That's just a few suggestions as far as what types of ships you should have. As for manpower, your number of total military personnel should always be <5% of your total population, so whatever that comes out to, decide what percentage of your total military manpower
should go to your Navy.

I hope that helps.

by **The State of Monavia** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:39 pm

According to this article from Wikipedia (not the most scholarly or reliable source, but still factually accurate for the purposes of this post), the USN has the following:

There are currently 11 aircraft carriers, 22 cruisers, 59 destroyers, 29 frigates, 2 littoral combat ships, 9 amphibious assault ships, 2 amphibious command ships, 9 amphibious transport docks, 12 dock landing ships, 53 attack submarines, 14 ballistic missile submarines, 4 guided missile submarines, 14 mine countermeasures ships, 11 patrol boats, and 1 technical research ship (military intelligence ship, the USS Pueblo, which is currently held by North Korea).

Support ships include two hospital ships, four salvage ships, two submarine tenders, four ammunition ships, five combat stores ships, four fast combat support ships, nine dry cargo ships, 15 replenishment oilers, four Fleet Ocean Tugs, four ocean surveillance ships, four container ships, 16 cargo ships (used for pre-positioning of Marine and Army materiel), and seven vehicle cargo ships (also used for prepositioning).

Ships denoted with the prefix USS are commissioned ships or are nearing completion for commissioning. US Navy support ships are often non-commissioned ships operated by and organized within Military Sealift Command. Those denoted USNS are owned by the US Navy; those denoted by MV are chartered.

There exist a number of former US Navy ships which are museum ships, some of which may be US government owned. One of these, the USS Constitution, a three-masted tall ship, is kept as a commissioned ship of the US Navy (and hence is listed here), as a special commemoration for that ship alone.

Current ships include commissioned warships that are in active service and also warships that are in the later stages of construction or that are undergoing sea trials but which have not yet gone through the ceremony of ship commissioning. Ships in early stages of construction (keel not yet laid down) are not included. Also included as current ships are support ships (usually denoted USNS) and leased ships (usually denoted MV) that are never commissioned but which are part of the effective force of the U.S. Navy.

There are about 436 ships listed here (238 USS ships, 198 USNS, MV, SS and other ships) that meet this definition of current ships.[

In terms of organizing a navy, the first question to ask is "Am I landlocked?" If the answer is yes, all you need is a brown water coast guard to patrol your rivers. If no, then proceed.

If you are a maritime power that has a lot of ocean around you, rather than one that is mostly enclosed by land, then a large navy is appropriate and a moderately-sized army and air force would also be appropriate, assuming no other variables. Marine corps are a separate issue, because marines were historically shipborne infantry and later evolved into amphibious troops deployed off of ships. You will need enough transports to carry your marines around. If your mariens have some of their own transport ships, your navy will not need as many transports.

My advice for forming a blue water navy is as follows:

In the case of a carrier flotilla have each carrier you build escorted by two frigates, four to eight destroyers, and any number of attack submarines so that they are defended from submarine attack. For aor expeditionary flotillas, have one amphibious assault ship, amphibious transport dock, and dock landing ship; some missile ships to provide protection to the flotilla from aeiral and missile assaults and to bombard shore targets, and a handful of corvettes.

Generally try to have at least one ship for every million people living in your country if you are a blue water maritime power. Monavia's ratio of 809 ships to 468,588,356 people (my locked RP population for 2011) is about one ship for every 579,219.2 people.

by **Lazssia** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:53 pm

My thanks to both of you, it's been really helpful.

by **DASHES** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:41 am

Hmm. I figured this thread would be more active.

Is there a similar thread out there that I don't know about?

by **Svormannhelm** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:54 am

Ballistic Knives aren't really worth it.

Just use a Silenced Pistol, really.

by **Hippostania** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:19 am

I RP with a population of 276 millions. Is this navy too large for me? Is there anything I should change? Do I have too much something or not enough something?

by **Lazssia** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:26 am

Hippostania wrote:I RP with a population of 276 millions. Is this navy too large for me? Is there anything I should change? Do I have too much something or not enough something?

Aircraft Carriers
13 Nimitz class aircraft carriers
-HNS Alcide De Gasperi
-HNS Altiero Spinelli
-HNS François Mitterrand
-HNS Guy Verhofstadt
-HNS Helmut Kohl
-HNS Jacques Delors
-HNS Jan Willem Beyen
-HNS Jean Monnet
-HNS Joseph Bech
-HNS Konrad Adenauer
-HNS Richard Nikolaus
-HNS Robert Schuman
-HNS Winston Churchill

Amphibious Transport Dock
15 San Antonio class amphibious transport docks
-HNS Amazon
-HNS Danube
-HNS Elbe
-HNS Grande
-HNS Indus
-HNS Loire
-HNS Mackenzie
-HNS Mississippi
-HNS Murray
-HNS Nile
-HNS Rhine
-HNS Saint Lawrence
-HNS Seine
-HNS Volga
-HNS Yangtze

Amphibious Assault Ships
18 Wasp class amphibious assault ships
-HNS Baikal
-HNS Constance
-HNS Erie
-HNS Huron
-HNS Ladoga
-HNS Leman
-HNS Malawi
-HNS Michigan
-HNS Onega
-HNS Ontario
-HNS Saimaa
-HNS Superior
-HNS Tanganyika
-HNS Victoria
-HNS Vostok
-HNS Vänern
-HNS Vättern
-HNS Winnipeg

Combat Support Ships
15 Supply class fast combat support ships
-HNS Adriatic
-HNS Aegean
-HNS Arctic
-HNS Aral
-HNS Atlantic
-HNS Baltic
-HNS Black
-HNS Bothnian
-HNS Caribbean
-HNS Caspian
-HNS Indian
-HNS Ligurian
-HNS Mediterranean
-HNS Southern
-HNS Pacific

Corvettes
25 Visby class corvettes
-HNS Argenteuil
-HNS Carlisle
-HNS Creteil
-HNS Croydon
-HNS Durham
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Epping
-HNS Gatwick
-HNS Greenwich
-HNS Harlow
-HNS Hounslow
-HNS Lewisham
-HNS Milton Keynes
-HNS Moncton-Monceau
-HNS Martintown-Martigny
-HNS Nanterre
-HNS Northampton
-HNS Nouvelle Acadie
-HNS Saint-Laurent
-HNS Stanstead
-HNS Suffolk
-HNS Waverley
-HNS Williamstown
-HNS Wokingham
-HNS Worcester

Cruisers
27 Ticonderoga class cruisers
-HNS Ardennes
-HNS Austerlitz
-HNS Blenheim
-HNS Breitenfeld
-HNS Bulge
-HNS Falklands
-HNS Gallipoli
-HNS Gettysburg
-HNS Guadalcanal
-HNS Meuse-Argonne
-HNS Iwo Jima
-HNS Khe Sanh
-HNS Market Garden
-HNS Marne
-HNS Monte Cassino
-HNS Normandy
-HNS Okinawa
-HNS Pearl Harbor
-HNS Saratoga
-HNS Seelow Heights
-HNS Sedan
-HNS Sekigahara
-HNS Tali-Ihantala
-HNS Trafalgar
-HNS Verdun
-HNS Vistula-Oder
-HNS Waterloo

Cutters
100 Sentinel class cutters
-HNS One
-HNS Two
-HNS Three
..and so on

Destroyers
55 Arleigh Burke class destroyers
-HNS Abraham Lincoln
-HNS Adam Smith
-HNS Albert Einstein
-HNS Al Gore
-HNS Angela Merkel
-HNS Augusto Pinochet
-HNS Axel Freudenthal
-HNS Ayn Rand
-HNS Barack Obama
-HNS Benjamin Franklin
-HNS Bill Clinton
-HNS Boris Yeltsin
-HNS Charles Darwin
-HNS Charles De Gaulle
-HNS Charles Dickens
-HNS Chiang Kai-Shek
-HNS Christopher Columbus
-HNS Dag Hammarskjöld
-HNS David Hume
-HNS Dwight D. Eisenhower
-HNS François Fillon
-HNS Franklin D. Roosevelt
-HNS Fredrik Reinfeldt
-HNS George Washington
-HNS George W. Bush
-HNS Giovanni da Verrazzano
-HNS Giuseppe Garibaldi
-HNS Harri Holkeri
-HNS Harry S. Truman
-HNS Henry Hudson
-HNS Isaac Newton
-HNS Jan Björklund
-HNS John F. Kennedy
-HNS John Locke
-HNS John Major
-HNS John Maynard Keynes
-HNS Joseph McCarthy
-HNS Kim Dae Jung
-HNS Kurt von Schleicher
-HNS Ludwig van Bethoven
-HNS Ludwig Erhard
-HNS Margaret Thatcher
-HNS Mark Twain
-HNS Mikhail Gorbachev
-HNS Milton Friedman
-HNS Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
-HNS Nelson Mandela
-HNS Nicolas Sarkozy
-HNS Pierre Elliott Trudeau
-HNS Ronald Reagan
-HNS Sauli Niinistö
-HNS Shirin Ebadi
-HNS Stephen Hawking
-HNS Thomas Edison
-HNS Thomas Jefferson
-HNS Willem van Oranje
-HNS Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
-HNS Woodrow Wilson

45 Type 45 destroyers
-HNS Boris Pasternak
-HNS Diana, Princess of Wales
-HNS Donald Rumsfeld
-HNS Elizabeth II
-HNS Eugène Delacroix
-HNS F.W. de Klerk
-HNS Georges Pompidou
-HNS George H.W. Bush
-HNS Gordon Brown
-HNS Gustav II Adolf
-HNS Mahatma Gandhi
-HNS Mikheil Saakashvili
-HNS Hamid Karzai
-HNS Hashim Thaçi
-HNS Henry Dunant
-HNS Herta Müller
-HNS Horatio Nelson
-HNS Idris of Libya
-HNS Jalal Talabani
-HNS Jimmy Carter
-HNS Jeanne D'Arc
-HNS John D. Rockefeller
-HNS John Edgar Hoover
-HNS John McMichael
-HNS Jyrki Katainen
-HNS Kofi Annan
-HNS Lennart Meri
-HNS Leszek Kolakowski
-HNS Leonardo da Vinci
-HNS Liu Xiaobo
-HNS Ludwig von Mises
-HNS Martin Luther King
-HNS Marthinus van Schalkwyk
-HNS Martti Ahtisaari
-HNS Mohamed ElBaradei
-HNS Mustafa Abdul Jalil
-HNS Nick Clegg
-HNS Richard Dawkins
-HNS Richard Howard Ichord Jr
-HNS Robert McNamara
-HNS Theodore Roosevelt
-HNS Tony Blair
-HNS William Shakespeare
-HNS Willy Brandt
-HNS Yasser Arafat

Dock landing ships
10 Harpers Ferry class dock landing ships
-HNS Ararat
-HNS Bernina
-HNS Blanc
-HNS Everest
-HNS Jotunheimen
-HNS Jungfrau
-HNS Matterhorn
-HNS McKinley
-HNS Rainier
-HNS Rosa

Frigates
80 Type 23 frigates
-HNS Adelaide
-HNS Amsterdam
-HNS Athens
-HNS Auckland
-HNS Barcelona
-HNS Beijing
-HNS Berlin
-HNS Bern
-HNS Boston
-HNS Brisbane
-HNS Brussels
-HNS Bucharest
-HNS Budapest
-HNS Calgary
-HNS Canberra
-HNS Cape Town
-HNS Chicago
-HNS Copenhagen
-HNS Delhi
-HNS Dublin
-HNS Düsseldorf
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Frankfurt
-HNS Geneva
-HNS Hamburg
-HNS Helsinki
-HNS Hong Kong
-HNS Honolulu
-HNS Jakarta
-HNS Johannesburg
-HNS Karachi
-HNS Kiev
-HNS Lagos
-HNS Lisbon
-HNS London
-HNS Los Angeles
-HNS Luxembourg
-HNS Lyon
-HNS Madrid
-HNS Manchester
-HNS Melbourne
-HNS Miami
-HNS Milan
-HNS Montreal
-HNS Moscow
-HNS Mumbai
-HNS Munich
-HNS New York City
-HNS Nuremberg
-HNS Osaka
-HNS Oslo
-HNS Ottawa
-HNS Paris
-HNS Perth
-HNS Prague
-HNS Philadelphia
-HNS Riga
-HNS Rio de Janeiro
-HNS Rome
-HNS Saint Petersburg
-HNS San Francisco
-HNS São Paulo
-HNS Seattle
-HNS Seoul
-HNS Shanghai
-HNS Singapore
-HNS Sofia
-HNS Stockholm
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Sydney
-HNS Tallinn
-HNS Taipei
-HNS Tokyo
-HNS Toronto
-HNS Vancouver
-HNS Vienna
-HNS Vilnius
-HNS Warsaw
-HNS Washington DC
-HNS Zurich

40 Freedom class frigates
-HNS Abidjan
-HNS Accra
-HNS Addis Ababa
-HNS Algiers
-HNS Antwerp
-HNS Baku
-HNS Bangkok
-HNS Belgrade
-HNS Birmingham
-HNS Bogota
-HNS Buenos Aires
-HNS Cairo
-HNS Caracas
-HNS Casablanca
-HNS Cologne
-HNS Dakar
-HNS Dar es Salaam
-HNS Durban
-HNS Florence
-HNS Glasgow
-HNS Houston
-HNS Istanbul
-HNS Khartoum
-HNS Kuala Lumpur
-HNS Leeds-Bradford
-HNS Lille
-HNS Lima
-HNS Luanda
-HNS Manila
-HNS Marseille
-HNS Minsk
-HNS Nairobi
-HNS Pretoria
-HNS Rotterdam
-HNS Santiago
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Tbilisi
-HNS Tunis
-HNS Turin
-HNS Yerevan

Minesweepers
45 Avenger class minesweepers
-HNS Able
-HNS Alpha
-HNS Baker
-HNS Bravo
-HNS Charlie
-HNS Delta
-HNS Dog
-HNS Easy
-HNS Echo
-HNS Epsilon
-HNS Foxtrot
-HNS Gamma
-HNS George
-HNS Golf
-HNS Juliet
-HNS Kappa
-HNS Kilo
-HNS King
-HNS Lambda
-HNS Lima
-HNS Mike
-HNS November
-HNS Omega
-HNS Omicron
-HNS Oscar
-HNS Papa
-HNS Peter
-HNS Pi
-HNS Quebec
-HNS Queen
-HNS Rho
-HNS Roger
-HNS Romeo
-HNS Sierra
-HNS Tango
-HNS Tau
-HNS Theta
-HNS Uniform
-HNS Victor
-HNS Whiskey
-HNS William
-HNS Xray
-HNS Yankee
-HNS Zebra
-HNS Zulu

Submarines
35 Virginia class submarines
-HNS Bravery
-HNS Diligence
-HNS Dedication
-HNS Democracy
-HNS Devotion
-HNS Diversity
-HNS Effort
-HNS Equality
-HNS Endurance
-HNS Fidelity
-HNS Fraternity
-HNS Freedom
-HNS Glory
-HNS Harmony
-HNS Honor
-HNS Hope
-HNS Integrity
-HNS Justice
-HNS Liberty
-HNS Loyalty
-HNS Peace
-HNS Progress
-HNS Prosperity
-HNS Righteousness
-HNS Respect
-HNS Serenity
-HNS Service
-HNS Solidarity
-HNS Strength
-HNS Tirelessness
-HNS Triumph
-HNS Unity
-HNS Victory
-HNS Vigilance
-HNS Wealth

5 Ohio class submarines
-HNS Generosity
-HNS Honesty
-HNS Kindness
-HNS Laughter
-HNS Magic

I asked a very similar question on this thread just yesterday. You can find the posts made by DASHES, Monavia, and Crookfur on here, they may help, but over all this can be a very complex and confusing subject, I'm still trying to figure it out my self.

by **Putria** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:36 am

My Military is based off the 1980's Argentine Army such as this:

We do have National Service (aka Conscription), so I was wondering if we should use a fully automatic rifle or perhaps a three-round burst for ammo conservation purposes?

Should I do away with Conscription entirely?

by **Ponistan** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:46 am

Hippostania wrote:I RP with a population of 276 millions. Is this navy too large for me? Is there anything I should change? Do I have too much something or not enough something?

Aircraft Carriers
13 Nimitz class aircraft carriers
-HNS Alcide De Gasperi
-HNS Altiero Spinelli
-HNS François Mitterrand
-HNS Guy Verhofstadt
-HNS Helmut Kohl
-HNS Jacques Delors
-HNS Jan Willem Beyen
-HNS Jean Monnet
-HNS Joseph Bech
-HNS Konrad Adenauer
-HNS Richard Nikolaus
-HNS Robert Schuman
-HNS Winston Churchill

Amphibious Transport Dock
15 San Antonio class amphibious transport docks
-HNS Amazon
-HNS Danube
-HNS Elbe
-HNS Grande
-HNS Indus
-HNS Loire
-HNS Mackenzie
-HNS Mississippi
-HNS Murray
-HNS Nile
-HNS Rhine
-HNS Saint Lawrence
-HNS Seine
-HNS Volga
-HNS Yangtze

Amphibious Assault Ships
18 Wasp class amphibious assault ships
-HNS Baikal
-HNS Constance
-HNS Erie
-HNS Huron
-HNS Ladoga
-HNS Leman
-HNS Malawi
-HNS Michigan
-HNS Onega
-HNS Ontario
-HNS Saimaa
-HNS Superior
-HNS Tanganyika
-HNS Victoria
-HNS Vostok
-HNS Vänern
-HNS Vättern
-HNS Winnipeg

Combat Support Ships
15 Supply class fast combat support ships
-HNS Adriatic
-HNS Aegean
-HNS Arctic
-HNS Aral
-HNS Atlantic
-HNS Baltic
-HNS Black
-HNS Bothnian
-HNS Caribbean
-HNS Caspian
-HNS Indian
-HNS Ligurian
-HNS Mediterranean
-HNS Southern
-HNS Pacific

Corvettes
25 Visby class corvettes
-HNS Argenteuil
-HNS Carlisle
-HNS Creteil
-HNS Croydon
-HNS Durham
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Epping
-HNS Gatwick
-HNS Greenwich
-HNS Harlow
-HNS Hounslow
-HNS Lewisham
-HNS Milton Keynes
-HNS Moncton-Monceau
-HNS Martintown-Martigny
-HNS Nanterre
-HNS Northampton
-HNS Nouvelle Acadie
-HNS Saint-Laurent
-HNS Stanstead
-HNS Suffolk
-HNS Waverley
-HNS Williamstown
-HNS Wokingham
-HNS Worcester

Cruisers
27 Ticonderoga class cruisers
-HNS Ardennes
-HNS Austerlitz
-HNS Blenheim
-HNS Breitenfeld
-HNS Bulge
-HNS Falklands
-HNS Gallipoli
-HNS Gettysburg
-HNS Guadalcanal
-HNS Meuse-Argonne
-HNS Iwo Jima
-HNS Khe Sanh
-HNS Market Garden
-HNS Marne
-HNS Monte Cassino
-HNS Normandy
-HNS Okinawa
-HNS Pearl Harbor
-HNS Saratoga
-HNS Seelow Heights
-HNS Sedan
-HNS Sekigahara
-HNS Tali-Ihantala
-HNS Trafalgar
-HNS Verdun
-HNS Vistula-Oder
-HNS Waterloo

Cutters
100 Sentinel class cutters
-HNS One
-HNS Two
-HNS Three
..and so on

Destroyers
55 Arleigh Burke class destroyers
-HNS Abraham Lincoln
-HNS Adam Smith
-HNS Albert Einstein
-HNS Al Gore
-HNS Angela Merkel
-HNS Augusto Pinochet
-HNS Axel Freudenthal
-HNS Ayn Rand
-HNS Barack Obama
-HNS Benjamin Franklin
-HNS Bill Clinton
-HNS Boris Yeltsin
-HNS Charles Darwin
-HNS Charles De Gaulle
-HNS Charles Dickens
-HNS Chiang Kai-Shek
-HNS Christopher Columbus
-HNS Dag Hammarskjöld
-HNS David Hume
-HNS Dwight D. Eisenhower
-HNS François Fillon
-HNS Franklin D. Roosevelt
-HNS Fredrik Reinfeldt
-HNS George Washington
-HNS George W. Bush
-HNS Giovanni da Verrazzano
-HNS Giuseppe Garibaldi
-HNS Harri Holkeri
-HNS Harry S. Truman
-HNS Henry Hudson
-HNS Isaac Newton
-HNS Jan Björklund
-HNS John F. Kennedy
-HNS John Locke
-HNS John Major
-HNS John Maynard Keynes
-HNS Joseph McCarthy
-HNS Kim Dae Jung
-HNS Kurt von Schleicher
-HNS Ludwig van Bethoven
-HNS Ludwig Erhard
-HNS Margaret Thatcher
-HNS Mark Twain
-HNS Mikhail Gorbachev
-HNS Milton Friedman
-HNS Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
-HNS Nelson Mandela
-HNS Nicolas Sarkozy
-HNS Pierre Elliott Trudeau
-HNS Ronald Reagan
-HNS Sauli Niinistö
-HNS Shirin Ebadi
-HNS Stephen Hawking
-HNS Thomas Edison
-HNS Thomas Jefferson
-HNS Willem van Oranje
-HNS Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
-HNS Woodrow Wilson

45 Type 45 destroyers
-HNS Boris Pasternak
-HNS Diana, Princess of Wales
-HNS Donald Rumsfeld
-HNS Elizabeth II
-HNS Eugène Delacroix
-HNS F.W. de Klerk
-HNS Georges Pompidou
-HNS George H.W. Bush
-HNS Gordon Brown
-HNS Gustav II Adolf
-HNS Mahatma Gandhi
-HNS Mikheil Saakashvili
-HNS Hamid Karzai
-HNS Hashim Thaçi
-HNS Henry Dunant
-HNS Herta Müller
-HNS Horatio Nelson
-HNS Idris of Libya
-HNS Jalal Talabani
-HNS Jimmy Carter
-HNS Jeanne D'Arc
-HNS John D. Rockefeller
-HNS John Edgar Hoover
-HNS John McMichael
-HNS Jyrki Katainen
-HNS Kofi Annan
-HNS Lennart Meri
-HNS Leszek Kolakowski
-HNS Leonardo da Vinci
-HNS Liu Xiaobo
-HNS Ludwig von Mises
-HNS Martin Luther King
-HNS Marthinus van Schalkwyk
-HNS Martti Ahtisaari
-HNS Mohamed ElBaradei
-HNS Mustafa Abdul Jalil
-HNS Nick Clegg
-HNS Richard Dawkins
-HNS Richard Howard Ichord Jr
-HNS Robert McNamara
-HNS Theodore Roosevelt
-HNS Tony Blair
-HNS William Shakespeare
-HNS Willy Brandt
-HNS Yasser Arafat

Dock landing ships
10 Harpers Ferry class dock landing ships
-HNS Ararat
-HNS Bernina
-HNS Blanc
-HNS Everest
-HNS Jotunheimen
-HNS Jungfrau
-HNS Matterhorn
-HNS McKinley
-HNS Rainier
-HNS Rosa

Frigates
80 Type 23 frigates
-HNS Adelaide
-HNS Amsterdam
-HNS Athens
-HNS Auckland
-HNS Barcelona
-HNS Beijing
-HNS Berlin
-HNS Bern
-HNS Boston
-HNS Brisbane
-HNS Brussels
-HNS Bucharest
-HNS Budapest
-HNS Calgary
-HNS Canberra
-HNS Cape Town
-HNS Chicago
-HNS Copenhagen
-HNS Delhi
-HNS Dublin
-HNS Düsseldorf
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Frankfurt
-HNS Geneva
-HNS Hamburg
-HNS Helsinki
-HNS Hong Kong
-HNS Honolulu
-HNS Jakarta
-HNS Johannesburg
-HNS Karachi
-HNS Kiev
-HNS Lagos
-HNS Lisbon
-HNS London
-HNS Los Angeles
-HNS Luxembourg
-HNS Lyon
-HNS Madrid
-HNS Manchester
-HNS Melbourne
-HNS Miami
-HNS Milan
-HNS Montreal
-HNS Moscow
-HNS Mumbai
-HNS Munich
-HNS New York City
-HNS Nuremberg
-HNS Osaka
-HNS Oslo
-HNS Ottawa
-HNS Paris
-HNS Perth
-HNS Prague
-HNS Philadelphia
-HNS Riga
-HNS Rio de Janeiro
-HNS Rome
-HNS Saint Petersburg
-HNS San Francisco
-HNS São Paulo
-HNS Seattle
-HNS Seoul
-HNS Shanghai
-HNS Singapore
-HNS Sofia
-HNS Stockholm
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Sydney
-HNS Tallinn
-HNS Taipei
-HNS Tokyo
-HNS Toronto
-HNS Vancouver
-HNS Vienna
-HNS Vilnius
-HNS Warsaw
-HNS Washington DC
-HNS Zurich

40 Freedom class frigates
-HNS Abidjan
-HNS Accra
-HNS Addis Ababa
-HNS Algiers
-HNS Antwerp
-HNS Baku
-HNS Bangkok
-HNS Belgrade
-HNS Birmingham
-HNS Bogota
-HNS Buenos Aires
-HNS Cairo
-HNS Caracas
-HNS Casablanca
-HNS Cologne
-HNS Dakar
-HNS Dar es Salaam
-HNS Durban
-HNS Florence
-HNS Glasgow
-HNS Houston
-HNS Istanbul
-HNS Khartoum
-HNS Kuala Lumpur
-HNS Leeds-Bradford
-HNS Lille
-HNS Lima
-HNS Luanda
-HNS Manila
-HNS Marseille
-HNS Minsk
-HNS Nairobi
-HNS Pretoria
-HNS Rotterdam
-HNS Santiago
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Tbilisi
-HNS Tunis
-HNS Turin
-HNS Yerevan

Minesweepers
45 Avenger class minesweepers
-HNS Able
-HNS Alpha
-HNS Baker
-HNS Bravo
-HNS Charlie
-HNS Delta
-HNS Dog
-HNS Easy
-HNS Echo
-HNS Epsilon
-HNS Foxtrot
-HNS Gamma
-HNS George
-HNS Golf
-HNS Juliet
-HNS Kappa
-HNS Kilo
-HNS King
-HNS Lambda
-HNS Lima
-HNS Mike
-HNS November
-HNS Omega
-HNS Omicron
-HNS Oscar
-HNS Papa
-HNS Peter
-HNS Pi
-HNS Quebec
-HNS Queen
-HNS Rho
-HNS Roger
-HNS Romeo
-HNS Sierra
-HNS Tango
-HNS Tau
-HNS Theta
-HNS Uniform
-HNS Victor
-HNS Whiskey
-HNS William
-HNS Xray
-HNS Yankee
-HNS Zebra
-HNS Zulu

Submarines
35 Virginia class submarines
-HNS Bravery
-HNS Diligence
-HNS Dedication
-HNS Democracy
-HNS Devotion
-HNS Diversity
-HNS Effort
-HNS Equality
-HNS Endurance
-HNS Fidelity
-HNS Fraternity
-HNS Freedom
-HNS Glory
-HNS Harmony
-HNS Honor
-HNS Hope
-HNS Integrity
-HNS Justice
-HNS Liberty
-HNS Loyalty
-HNS Peace
-HNS Progress
-HNS Prosperity
-HNS Righteousness
-HNS Respect
-HNS Serenity
-HNS Service
-HNS Solidarity
-HNS Strength
-HNS Tirelessness
-HNS Triumph
-HNS Unity
-HNS Victory
-HNS Vigilance
-HNS Wealth

5 Ohio class submarines
-HNS Generosity
-HNS Honesty
-HNS Kindness
-HNS Laughter
-HNS Magic

Jesus. Thirteen carriers? I know the USN has been mentioned earlier, but keep in mind that it is THE largest navy in the world, by miles. I think it's fair to take a look at the navies of other large and powerful nations with fairly strong military might. Now remember, this is by numbers of aircraft carriers in service, not under construction. I'll even include the ones in reserve.

The United States (the big one) - 12
Italy, Spain - 2 each
France, Russia, India, China - 1 each
The UK, Germany, Australia, Japan, Canada - Zero

Get that? The United States has over half the aircraft carriers in the entire world right now.

The point is that carriers are very, very powerful. They are also extremely costly and are meant to be the flagship of a fleet. At most you might have one carrier in a fleet, and it would have a lot of smaller screening ships around it. Most fleets wouldn't even have a carrier.

So yeah. I hope this helps you, and anyone else with questions about a reasonable number of carriers.

by **Kazomal** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:49 am

Kazomal has a pop of about 3.5 billion, a Frightening economy, and a military budget of about $40 trillion annually (I know, ridiculous numbers, but my region uses the economic calculator and info on the main nation page, such as population, as cannon for in-region RP). Scaling up from US military numbers, this gives me thousands and thousands of ships, and about 200,000 main battle tanks. Even with $14t going to logistics and support, I am uncomfortable with these numbers. Anyone out there that can either sooth my guilt, or give me some better way to work out just what I can and cannot afford?

Here is my military budget breakdown. For things like vehicles and ships, I looked up annual costs of operation for similar modern-day vessels (my region is on the cusp of MT/PMT, in that we're mainly restricted to things that exist, but we RP in the year 2080ish, and are somewhat loose with what you may RP, tech-wise), then added some wriggle-room, set aside 14t for logistics and support, 6t for misc, and 15t for R&D. One of my main concerns is, is training and pay included anywhere in my calculations? When I look up the annual cost of operation of a US warship, does that include training and pay for the officers, crew, and mechanics? Is 14t enough to cover logistics, training, and pay across my entire military? Or do I just employ way way way to many people by having so so many ships and vehicles?

So? Is it total bullshit, or can I support something like this with a pop of 3.5b and an annual military budget of about $40t? (I get that this kind of force is utterly impossible in RL, but like I said, my region uses the calculator and nation page population, and the calculator says I have a military budget of more than 60x the RL USA)

Basically my region goes big because of the high numbers the economic calc gives us, if there is some reason these numbers are bullshit, even with the high military spending of some nations (a few nations in my region have 30, 80, and 110 trillion defense budgets), I'd love to hear it, so as to bring more realism to the region, as well as help developing more realistic numbers for my own nation.

EDIT: Also, here's what I embarrassingly call my 'military factbook,' still under construction. Please, those in the know, feel free to demolish any part of it with your logic, provided you set me on the path to improving what you've torn down via good advice: http://s15.zetaboards.com/ixnay/topic/6989934/1/#new

by **Dirty Land Pirates** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:49 am

Well, Lucky for all of you, I am infantry, and I know exactly what goes in my ruck sack, tac vest, and the rest of my combats.
DASHES: Your infantry can carry alot more than that, also, no one is going to be carrying around extra kevlar unless they're a mat tech. I'd suggest dropping that concept entirely. Soldiers can carry multiple flares, grenades, etc... Also, why have a cloth? Why not just issue your soldeirs facemasks, and gloves?

A sleeping bag is useless unless you have an improvised shelter, and a matress of some sort Have them carry a groundsheet, along with some 550 cord, and maybe a few bungie cords, and a "self-inflating" air matress. The one I was issued doesn't infalte very well, but it's better than sleeping directly on the ground.

Lastly, why would you give soldiers ration bars? I've never even heard of those...Most smart troops will just bring their own chocolate bars, etc... to the field anyways.

Putria, 3-round burst is extremely detrimental to accuracy, just use rifles that can fire 1 shot, or go fully auto, It's much simpler that way.

by **Crookfur** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:53 am

Hippostania wrote:I RP with a population of 276 millions. Is this navy too large for me? Is there anything I should change? Do I have too much something or not enough something?

Aircraft Carriers
13 Nimitz class aircraft carriers
-HNS Alcide De Gasperi
-HNS Altiero Spinelli
-HNS François Mitterrand
-HNS Guy Verhofstadt
-HNS Helmut Kohl
-HNS Jacques Delors
-HNS Jan Willem Beyen
-HNS Jean Monnet
-HNS Joseph Bech
-HNS Konrad Adenauer
-HNS Richard Nikolaus
-HNS Robert Schuman
-HNS Winston Churchill

Amphibious Transport Dock
15 San Antonio class amphibious transport docks
-HNS Amazon
-HNS Danube
-HNS Elbe
-HNS Grande
-HNS Indus
-HNS Loire
-HNS Mackenzie
-HNS Mississippi
-HNS Murray
-HNS Nile
-HNS Rhine
-HNS Saint Lawrence
-HNS Seine
-HNS Volga
-HNS Yangtze

Amphibious Assault Ships
18 Wasp class amphibious assault ships
-HNS Baikal
-HNS Constance
-HNS Erie
-HNS Huron
-HNS Ladoga
-HNS Leman
-HNS Malawi
-HNS Michigan
-HNS Onega
-HNS Ontario
-HNS Saimaa
-HNS Superior
-HNS Tanganyika
-HNS Victoria
-HNS Vostok
-HNS Vänern
-HNS Vättern
-HNS Winnipeg

Combat Support Ships
15 Supply class fast combat support ships
-HNS Adriatic
-HNS Aegean
-HNS Arctic
-HNS Aral
-HNS Atlantic
-HNS Baltic
-HNS Black
-HNS Bothnian
-HNS Caribbean
-HNS Caspian
-HNS Indian
-HNS Ligurian
-HNS Mediterranean
-HNS Southern
-HNS Pacific

Corvettes
25 Visby class corvettes
-HNS Argenteuil
-HNS Carlisle
-HNS Creteil
-HNS Croydon
-HNS Durham
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Epping
-HNS Gatwick
-HNS Greenwich
-HNS Harlow
-HNS Hounslow
-HNS Lewisham
-HNS Milton Keynes
-HNS Moncton-Monceau
-HNS Martintown-Martigny
-HNS Nanterre
-HNS Northampton
-HNS Nouvelle Acadie
-HNS Saint-Laurent
-HNS Stanstead
-HNS Suffolk
-HNS Waverley
-HNS Williamstown
-HNS Wokingham
-HNS Worcester

Cruisers
27 Ticonderoga class cruisers
-HNS Ardennes
-HNS Austerlitz
-HNS Blenheim
-HNS Breitenfeld
-HNS Bulge
-HNS Falklands
-HNS Gallipoli
-HNS Gettysburg
-HNS Guadalcanal
-HNS Meuse-Argonne
-HNS Iwo Jima
-HNS Khe Sanh
-HNS Market Garden
-HNS Marne
-HNS Monte Cassino
-HNS Normandy
-HNS Okinawa
-HNS Pearl Harbor
-HNS Saratoga
-HNS Seelow Heights
-HNS Sedan
-HNS Sekigahara
-HNS Tali-Ihantala
-HNS Trafalgar
-HNS Verdun
-HNS Vistula-Oder
-HNS Waterloo

Cutters
100 Sentinel class cutters
-HNS One
-HNS Two
-HNS Three
..and so on

Destroyers
55 Arleigh Burke class destroyers
-HNS Abraham Lincoln
-HNS Adam Smith
-HNS Albert Einstein
-HNS Al Gore
-HNS Angela Merkel
-HNS Augusto Pinochet
-HNS Axel Freudenthal
-HNS Ayn Rand
-HNS Barack Obama
-HNS Benjamin Franklin
-HNS Bill Clinton
-HNS Boris Yeltsin
-HNS Charles Darwin
-HNS Charles De Gaulle
-HNS Charles Dickens
-HNS Chiang Kai-Shek
-HNS Christopher Columbus
-HNS Dag Hammarskjöld
-HNS David Hume
-HNS Dwight D. Eisenhower
-HNS François Fillon
-HNS Franklin D. Roosevelt
-HNS Fredrik Reinfeldt
-HNS George Washington
-HNS George W. Bush
-HNS Giovanni da Verrazzano
-HNS Giuseppe Garibaldi
-HNS Harri Holkeri
-HNS Harry S. Truman
-HNS Henry Hudson
-HNS Isaac Newton
-HNS Jan Björklund
-HNS John F. Kennedy
-HNS John Locke
-HNS John Major
-HNS John Maynard Keynes
-HNS Joseph McCarthy
-HNS Kim Dae Jung
-HNS Kurt von Schleicher
-HNS Ludwig van Bethoven
-HNS Ludwig Erhard
-HNS Margaret Thatcher
-HNS Mark Twain
-HNS Mikhail Gorbachev
-HNS Milton Friedman
-HNS Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
-HNS Nelson Mandela
-HNS Nicolas Sarkozy
-HNS Pierre Elliott Trudeau
-HNS Ronald Reagan
-HNS Sauli Niinistö
-HNS Shirin Ebadi
-HNS Stephen Hawking
-HNS Thomas Edison
-HNS Thomas Jefferson
-HNS Willem van Oranje
-HNS Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
-HNS Woodrow Wilson

45 Type 45 destroyers
-HNS Boris Pasternak
-HNS Diana, Princess of Wales
-HNS Donald Rumsfeld
-HNS Elizabeth II
-HNS Eugène Delacroix
-HNS F.W. de Klerk
-HNS Georges Pompidou
-HNS George H.W. Bush
-HNS Gordon Brown
-HNS Gustav II Adolf
-HNS Mahatma Gandhi
-HNS Mikheil Saakashvili
-HNS Hamid Karzai
-HNS Hashim Thaçi
-HNS Henry Dunant
-HNS Herta Müller
-HNS Horatio Nelson
-HNS Idris of Libya
-HNS Jalal Talabani
-HNS Jimmy Carter
-HNS Jeanne D'Arc
-HNS John D. Rockefeller
-HNS John Edgar Hoover
-HNS John McMichael
-HNS Jyrki Katainen
-HNS Kofi Annan
-HNS Lennart Meri
-HNS Leszek Kolakowski
-HNS Leonardo da Vinci
-HNS Liu Xiaobo
-HNS Ludwig von Mises
-HNS Martin Luther King
-HNS Marthinus van Schalkwyk
-HNS Martti Ahtisaari
-HNS Mohamed ElBaradei
-HNS Mustafa Abdul Jalil
-HNS Nick Clegg
-HNS Richard Dawkins
-HNS Richard Howard Ichord Jr
-HNS Robert McNamara
-HNS Theodore Roosevelt
-HNS Tony Blair
-HNS William Shakespeare
-HNS Willy Brandt
-HNS Yasser Arafat

Dock landing ships
10 Harpers Ferry class dock landing ships
-HNS Ararat
-HNS Bernina
-HNS Blanc
-HNS Everest
-HNS Jotunheimen
-HNS Jungfrau
-HNS Matterhorn
-HNS McKinley
-HNS Rainier
-HNS Rosa

Frigates
80 Type 23 frigates
-HNS Adelaide
-HNS Amsterdam
-HNS Athens
-HNS Auckland
-HNS Barcelona
-HNS Beijing
-HNS Berlin
-HNS Bern
-HNS Boston
-HNS Brisbane
-HNS Brussels
-HNS Bucharest
-HNS Budapest
-HNS Calgary
-HNS Canberra
-HNS Cape Town
-HNS Chicago
-HNS Copenhagen
-HNS Delhi
-HNS Dublin
-HNS Düsseldorf
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Frankfurt
-HNS Geneva
-HNS Hamburg
-HNS Helsinki
-HNS Hong Kong
-HNS Honolulu
-HNS Jakarta
-HNS Johannesburg
-HNS Karachi
-HNS Kiev
-HNS Lagos
-HNS Lisbon
-HNS London
-HNS Los Angeles
-HNS Luxembourg
-HNS Lyon
-HNS Madrid
-HNS Manchester
-HNS Melbourne
-HNS Miami
-HNS Milan
-HNS Montreal
-HNS Moscow
-HNS Mumbai
-HNS Munich
-HNS New York City
-HNS Nuremberg
-HNS Osaka
-HNS Oslo
-HNS Ottawa
-HNS Paris
-HNS Perth
-HNS Prague
-HNS Philadelphia
-HNS Riga
-HNS Rio de Janeiro
-HNS Rome
-HNS Saint Petersburg
-HNS San Francisco
-HNS São Paulo
-HNS Seattle
-HNS Seoul
-HNS Shanghai
-HNS Singapore
-HNS Sofia
-HNS Stockholm
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Sydney
-HNS Tallinn
-HNS Taipei
-HNS Tokyo
-HNS Toronto
-HNS Vancouver
-HNS Vienna
-HNS Vilnius
-HNS Warsaw
-HNS Washington DC
-HNS Zurich

40 Freedom class frigates
-HNS Abidjan
-HNS Accra
-HNS Addis Ababa
-HNS Algiers
-HNS Antwerp
-HNS Baku
-HNS Bangkok
-HNS Belgrade
-HNS Birmingham
-HNS Bogota
-HNS Buenos Aires
-HNS Cairo
-HNS Caracas
-HNS Casablanca
-HNS Cologne
-HNS Dakar
-HNS Dar es Salaam
-HNS Durban
-HNS Florence
-HNS Glasgow
-HNS Houston
-HNS Istanbul
-HNS Khartoum
-HNS Kuala Lumpur
-HNS Leeds-Bradford
-HNS Lille
-HNS Lima
-HNS Luanda
-HNS Manila
-HNS Marseille
-HNS Minsk
-HNS Nairobi
-HNS Pretoria
-HNS Rotterdam
-HNS Santiago
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Tbilisi
-HNS Tunis
-HNS Turin
-HNS Yerevan

Minesweepers
45 Avenger class minesweepers
-HNS Able
-HNS Alpha
-HNS Baker
-HNS Bravo
-HNS Charlie
-HNS Delta
-HNS Dog
-HNS Easy
-HNS Echo
-HNS Epsilon
-HNS Foxtrot
-HNS Gamma
-HNS George
-HNS Golf
-HNS Juliet
-HNS Kappa
-HNS Kilo
-HNS King
-HNS Lambda
-HNS Lima
-HNS Mike
-HNS November
-HNS Omega
-HNS Omicron
-HNS Oscar
-HNS Papa
-HNS Peter
-HNS Pi
-HNS Quebec
-HNS Queen
-HNS Rho
-HNS Roger
-HNS Romeo
-HNS Sierra
-HNS Tango
-HNS Tau
-HNS Theta
-HNS Uniform
-HNS Victor
-HNS Whiskey
-HNS William
-HNS Xray
-HNS Yankee
-HNS Zebra
-HNS Zulu

Submarines
35 Virginia class submarines
-HNS Bravery
-HNS Diligence
-HNS Dedication
-HNS Democracy
-HNS Devotion
-HNS Diversity
-HNS Effort
-HNS Equality
-HNS Endurance
-HNS Fidelity
-HNS Fraternity
-HNS Freedom
-HNS Glory
-HNS Harmony
-HNS Honor
-HNS Hope
-HNS Integrity
-HNS Justice
-HNS Liberty
-HNS Loyalty
-HNS Peace
-HNS Progress
-HNS Prosperity
-HNS Righteousness
-HNS Respect
-HNS Serenity
-HNS Service
-HNS Solidarity
-HNS Strength
-HNS Tirelessness
-HNS Triumph
-HNS Unity
-HNS Victory
-HNS Vigilance
-HNS Wealth

5 Ohio class submarines
-HNS Generosity
-HNS Honesty
-HNS Kindness
-HNS Laughter
-HNS Magic

it is on the possibly too alrge side.

Personally for your pop and assuming a top rank economy I woudl take a stab at:
9-10 carriers
8 LHAs/LHDs
20 or so LPDs/LSDs
the 15 supply class you have currently
Corvettes are probably OK
Cruisers i would stick with about 20
Destoyers, aim for about 60 or so and use either the Arleigh Burke or the type 45 as both classes do exactly the same job, you could possibly replace all your Ticos with an equivelent number of Burkes.
Frigates I would stick to under 40 unless you have a really good reason to have so many especially when you also have corvettes.
Mine sweepers aim for about half the current number or maintain this number and ditch most of the Visbys
Subs look fine

Cutters could be fine but could also be on the high or low side depending on what classes are involved (i.e. 100 National Security cutter style vessels would be far too high whsilt 100 island class patrol boats could well be too low) so i would seperate them off for now.

by **The State of Monavia** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:44 pm

Hippostania, unless you are planning on using carriers offensively to attack lots of targets, you will probably not need thirteen of them. Financially speaking, they, and the rest of your navy, is perfectly plausible, although it will be costly and your other armed forced will have to operarte on smaller budgets unelss you increase taxation and spending overall.

Kazomal, you might want to post some calculations from the calculators so that I can have some numbers to work with. My advice is as follows:

If you RP as a nation with a small public sector and a government spending less than twenty percent of GDP, you can certainly fund some massive forces. Try to keep defense spending under twenty-five percent of government spending unless you are in a major war or are locked into a prolonged cold war, at which point fifty percent is a reasonably limit. My warning regarding having tens of millions of troops and vehicles is that organizing them into units will take a very long time.

The question about conscription is one of what works. If there is a need to obtain and train troops quickly and there is a shoratge of volunteers, a draft is appropriate, provided it is something you want to RP. If your people generally do not support drafts, there is likely to be some opposition when they are implemented.

I also have a question (for experienced players). I am putting together an elite branch (the Royal Guard) which should probably have no more than two corps worth of troops. My questions are as follows:

How would they best be organized in terms of unit types (motorized, mechanized, armored, combined arms, airborne, etc.)?
How do elite branches operate?
Is it plausible to use special operations troops from other service branches in the Royal Guard?

I have researched elite branches in the real world and so far I have found little that I can use.

by **Registug** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:32 pm

Alrighty, so I've been using my own concept of attack helicopter for a while in regional RP (Which is a huge wankfest, I come from Sapphire), and I was wondering if I used it in forum RP whether I'd get complaints/hate mail/death threats for it.

Basically it's a Black Hawk, but instead of a troop compartment, it has a chain gun inside it. Two bay doors open up and the gun folds out through complex, vulnerable hydraulic shit, and it shoots stuff. Is this too implausible for forum RP?

by **Dizyntk** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:36 pm

Registug wrote:Alrighty, so I've been using my own concept of attack helicopter for a while in regional RP (Which is a huge wankfest, I come from Sapphire), and I was wondering if I used it in forum RP whether I'd get complaints/hate mail/death threats for it.

Basically it's a Black Hawk, but instead of a troop compartment, it has a chain gun inside it. Two bay doors open up and the gun folds out through complex, vulnerable hydraulic shit, and it shoots stuff. Is this too implausible for forum RP?

It would be far easier to simply attach the guns in pods to the side of the helicopter. They make both chain gun and rotary gun pods in RL. You could then either use the passenger compartment fo its original purpose or to store extra ammo running to the pods.

by **Santheres** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:50 pm

Hippostania wrote:I RP with a population of 276 millions. Is this navy too large for me? Is there anything I should change? Do I have too much something or not enough something?

Aircraft Carriers
13 Nimitz class aircraft carriers
-HNS Alcide De Gasperi
-HNS Altiero Spinelli
-HNS François Mitterrand
-HNS Guy Verhofstadt
-HNS Helmut Kohl
-HNS Jacques Delors
-HNS Jan Willem Beyen
-HNS Jean Monnet
-HNS Joseph Bech
-HNS Konrad Adenauer
-HNS Richard Nikolaus
-HNS Robert Schuman
-HNS Winston Churchill

Amphibious Transport Dock
15 San Antonio class amphibious transport docks
-HNS Amazon
-HNS Danube
-HNS Elbe
-HNS Grande
-HNS Indus
-HNS Loire
-HNS Mackenzie
-HNS Mississippi
-HNS Murray
-HNS Nile
-HNS Rhine
-HNS Saint Lawrence
-HNS Seine
-HNS Volga
-HNS Yangtze

Amphibious Assault Ships
18 Wasp class amphibious assault ships
-HNS Baikal
-HNS Constance
-HNS Erie
-HNS Huron
-HNS Ladoga
-HNS Leman
-HNS Malawi
-HNS Michigan
-HNS Onega
-HNS Ontario
-HNS Saimaa
-HNS Superior
-HNS Tanganyika
-HNS Victoria
-HNS Vostok
-HNS Vänern
-HNS Vättern
-HNS Winnipeg

Combat Support Ships
15 Supply class fast combat support ships
-HNS Adriatic
-HNS Aegean
-HNS Arctic
-HNS Aral
-HNS Atlantic
-HNS Baltic
-HNS Black
-HNS Bothnian
-HNS Caribbean
-HNS Caspian
-HNS Indian
-HNS Ligurian
-HNS Mediterranean
-HNS Southern
-HNS Pacific

Corvettes
25 Visby class corvettes
-HNS Argenteuil
-HNS Carlisle
-HNS Creteil
-HNS Croydon
-HNS Durham
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Epping
-HNS Gatwick
-HNS Greenwich
-HNS Harlow
-HNS Hounslow
-HNS Lewisham
-HNS Milton Keynes
-HNS Moncton-Monceau
-HNS Martintown-Martigny
-HNS Nanterre
-HNS Northampton
-HNS Nouvelle Acadie
-HNS Saint-Laurent
-HNS Stanstead
-HNS Suffolk
-HNS Waverley
-HNS Williamstown
-HNS Wokingham
-HNS Worcester

Cruisers
27 Ticonderoga class cruisers
-HNS Ardennes
-HNS Austerlitz
-HNS Blenheim
-HNS Breitenfeld
-HNS Bulge
-HNS Falklands
-HNS Gallipoli
-HNS Gettysburg
-HNS Guadalcanal
-HNS Meuse-Argonne
-HNS Iwo Jima
-HNS Khe Sanh
-HNS Market Garden
-HNS Marne
-HNS Monte Cassino
-HNS Normandy
-HNS Okinawa
-HNS Pearl Harbor
-HNS Saratoga
-HNS Seelow Heights
-HNS Sedan
-HNS Sekigahara
-HNS Tali-Ihantala
-HNS Trafalgar
-HNS Verdun
-HNS Vistula-Oder
-HNS Waterloo

Cutters
100 Sentinel class cutters
-HNS One
-HNS Two
-HNS Three
..and so on

Destroyers
55 Arleigh Burke class destroyers
-HNS Abraham Lincoln
-HNS Adam Smith
-HNS Albert Einstein
-HNS Al Gore
-HNS Angela Merkel
-HNS Augusto Pinochet
-HNS Axel Freudenthal
-HNS Ayn Rand
-HNS Barack Obama
-HNS Benjamin Franklin
-HNS Bill Clinton
-HNS Boris Yeltsin
-HNS Charles Darwin
-HNS Charles De Gaulle
-HNS Charles Dickens
-HNS Chiang Kai-Shek
-HNS Christopher Columbus
-HNS Dag Hammarskjöld
-HNS David Hume
-HNS Dwight D. Eisenhower
-HNS François Fillon
-HNS Franklin D. Roosevelt
-HNS Fredrik Reinfeldt
-HNS George Washington
-HNS George W. Bush
-HNS Giovanni da Verrazzano
-HNS Giuseppe Garibaldi
-HNS Harri Holkeri
-HNS Harry S. Truman
-HNS Henry Hudson
-HNS Isaac Newton
-HNS Jan Björklund
-HNS John F. Kennedy
-HNS John Locke
-HNS John Major
-HNS John Maynard Keynes
-HNS Joseph McCarthy
-HNS Kim Dae Jung
-HNS Kurt von Schleicher
-HNS Ludwig van Bethoven
-HNS Ludwig Erhard
-HNS Margaret Thatcher
-HNS Mark Twain
-HNS Mikhail Gorbachev
-HNS Milton Friedman
-HNS Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
-HNS Nelson Mandela
-HNS Nicolas Sarkozy
-HNS Pierre Elliott Trudeau
-HNS Ronald Reagan
-HNS Sauli Niinistö
-HNS Shirin Ebadi
-HNS Stephen Hawking
-HNS Thomas Edison
-HNS Thomas Jefferson
-HNS Willem van Oranje
-HNS Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
-HNS Woodrow Wilson

45 Type 45 destroyers
-HNS Boris Pasternak
-HNS Diana, Princess of Wales
-HNS Donald Rumsfeld
-HNS Elizabeth II
-HNS Eugène Delacroix
-HNS F.W. de Klerk
-HNS Georges Pompidou
-HNS George H.W. Bush
-HNS Gordon Brown
-HNS Gustav II Adolf
-HNS Mahatma Gandhi
-HNS Mikheil Saakashvili
-HNS Hamid Karzai
-HNS Hashim Thaçi
-HNS Henry Dunant
-HNS Herta Müller
-HNS Horatio Nelson
-HNS Idris of Libya
-HNS Jalal Talabani
-HNS Jimmy Carter
-HNS Jeanne D'Arc
-HNS John D. Rockefeller
-HNS John Edgar Hoover
-HNS John McMichael
-HNS Jyrki Katainen
-HNS Kofi Annan
-HNS Lennart Meri
-HNS Leszek Kolakowski
-HNS Leonardo da Vinci
-HNS Liu Xiaobo
-HNS Ludwig von Mises
-HNS Martin Luther King
-HNS Marthinus van Schalkwyk
-HNS Martti Ahtisaari
-HNS Mohamed ElBaradei
-HNS Mustafa Abdul Jalil
-HNS Nick Clegg
-HNS Richard Dawkins
-HNS Richard Howard Ichord Jr
-HNS Robert McNamara
-HNS Theodore Roosevelt
-HNS Tony Blair
-HNS William Shakespeare
-HNS Willy Brandt
-HNS Yasser Arafat

Dock landing ships
10 Harpers Ferry class dock landing ships
-HNS Ararat
-HNS Bernina
-HNS Blanc
-HNS Everest
-HNS Jotunheimen
-HNS Jungfrau
-HNS Matterhorn
-HNS McKinley
-HNS Rainier
-HNS Rosa

Frigates
80 Type 23 frigates
-HNS Adelaide
-HNS Amsterdam
-HNS Athens
-HNS Auckland
-HNS Barcelona
-HNS Beijing
-HNS Berlin
-HNS Bern
-HNS Boston
-HNS Brisbane
-HNS Brussels
-HNS Bucharest
-HNS Budapest
-HNS Calgary
-HNS Canberra
-HNS Cape Town
-HNS Chicago
-HNS Copenhagen
-HNS Delhi
-HNS Dublin
-HNS Düsseldorf
-HNS Edinburgh
-HNS Frankfurt
-HNS Geneva
-HNS Hamburg
-HNS Helsinki
-HNS Hong Kong
-HNS Honolulu
-HNS Jakarta
-HNS Johannesburg
-HNS Karachi
-HNS Kiev
-HNS Lagos
-HNS Lisbon
-HNS London
-HNS Los Angeles
-HNS Luxembourg
-HNS Lyon
-HNS Madrid
-HNS Manchester
-HNS Melbourne
-HNS Miami
-HNS Milan
-HNS Montreal
-HNS Moscow
-HNS Mumbai
-HNS Munich
-HNS New York City
-HNS Nuremberg
-HNS Osaka
-HNS Oslo
-HNS Ottawa
-HNS Paris
-HNS Perth
-HNS Prague
-HNS Philadelphia
-HNS Riga
-HNS Rio de Janeiro
-HNS Rome
-HNS Saint Petersburg
-HNS San Francisco
-HNS São Paulo
-HNS Seattle
-HNS Seoul
-HNS Shanghai
-HNS Singapore
-HNS Sofia
-HNS Stockholm
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Sydney
-HNS Tallinn
-HNS Taipei
-HNS Tokyo
-HNS Toronto
-HNS Vancouver
-HNS Vienna
-HNS Vilnius
-HNS Warsaw
-HNS Washington DC
-HNS Zurich

40 Freedom class frigates
-HNS Abidjan
-HNS Accra
-HNS Addis Ababa
-HNS Algiers
-HNS Antwerp
-HNS Baku
-HNS Bangkok
-HNS Belgrade
-HNS Birmingham
-HNS Bogota
-HNS Buenos Aires
-HNS Cairo
-HNS Caracas
-HNS Casablanca
-HNS Cologne
-HNS Dakar
-HNS Dar es Salaam
-HNS Durban
-HNS Florence
-HNS Glasgow
-HNS Houston
-HNS Istanbul
-HNS Khartoum
-HNS Kuala Lumpur
-HNS Leeds-Bradford
-HNS Lille
-HNS Lima
-HNS Luanda
-HNS Manila
-HNS Marseille
-HNS Minsk
-HNS Nairobi
-HNS Pretoria
-HNS Rotterdam
-HNS Santiago
-HNS Stuttgart
-HNS Tbilisi
-HNS Tunis
-HNS Turin
-HNS Yerevan

Minesweepers
45 Avenger class minesweepers
-HNS Able
-HNS Alpha
-HNS Baker
-HNS Bravo
-HNS Charlie
-HNS Delta
-HNS Dog
-HNS Easy
-HNS Echo
-HNS Epsilon
-HNS Foxtrot
-HNS Gamma
-HNS George
-HNS Golf
-HNS Juliet
-HNS Kappa
-HNS Kilo
-HNS King
-HNS Lambda
-HNS Lima
-HNS Mike
-HNS November
-HNS Omega
-HNS Omicron
-HNS Oscar
-HNS Papa
-HNS Peter
-HNS Pi
-HNS Quebec
-HNS Queen
-HNS Rho
-HNS Roger
-HNS Romeo
-HNS Sierra
-HNS Tango
-HNS Tau
-HNS Theta
-HNS Uniform
-HNS Victor
-HNS Whiskey
-HNS William
-HNS Xray
-HNS Yankee
-HNS Zebra
-HNS Zulu

Submarines
35 Virginia class submarines
-HNS Bravery
-HNS Diligence
-HNS Dedication
-HNS Democracy
-HNS Devotion
-HNS Diversity
-HNS Effort
-HNS Equality
-HNS Endurance
-HNS Fidelity
-HNS Fraternity
-HNS Freedom
-HNS Glory
-HNS Harmony
-HNS Honor
-HNS Hope
-HNS Integrity
-HNS Justice
-HNS Liberty
-HNS Loyalty
-HNS Peace
-HNS Progress
-HNS Prosperity
-HNS Righteousness
-HNS Respect
-HNS Serenity
-HNS Service
-HNS Solidarity
-HNS Strength
-HNS Tirelessness
-HNS Triumph
-HNS Unity
-HNS Victory
-HNS Vigilance
-HNS Wealth

5 Ohio class submarines
-HNS Generosity
-HNS Honesty
-HNS Kindness
-HNS Laughter
-HNS Magic

I really do not have the time to address everyone about this subject, or reply to those who replied to you, so I will do it just to you.

Realize that your navy as it stands now requires, at a minimum which would not leave you wholly ineffective, 6 million sailors. That's not at all including air wings or marines (because I can only be asked to do so much math for the benefit of other people who aren't paying me). That's actual sailors.

I actually added up all the crew you would require to crew every ship listed. To provide one crew to every ship, you would need at least 149,164 sailors. Navies tend to have multiple crews per ship: I will force you to have two, rather than a more effective 3. That's 298,328 minimum.

This is hardly accounting for noncombat* (commonly referred to as logistics here) and noncombat is vastly more than just "truck drivers" (in this case, the merchant marine). I used a ratio of 1:20, which seems fairly minimal frankly.

TOTAL x 0.2 = 298,328 => 298,328/0.2 = 5,966,560

So, make sure you actually have at least that many men in your navy if you want to field that navy.

Also, "ships per #### population" is a ridiculous way to calculate. You might as well just make up a random number. And this line of thought is what gives nations my size and smaller 30-40,000-ship navies.

* That is, roles that don't put you on ships that potentially enter combat situations

by **The State of Monavia** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:11 pm

I have to disagree with your twenty-to-one ration, which is absurd in real life. Accoring to this website there are 327,172 active personnel in the USN as of September 14, 2011, in addition to 102,080 in the Ready Reserve and 203,734 civilian employees of the US Department of the Navy. In sum, that is around 632,986 personnel, including civilians and reserves. The US Merchant Marine has 29,000 deck oficers, 28,000 unlicensed personnel, and 12,000 marine engineers, for a total of 69,000 personnel explicitly enumerated on this page. The same page also states that:

As of 2006, the United States merchant fleet numbered 465 ships and approximately 100,000 members. Seven hundred ships owned by American interests but registered, or flagged, in other countries are not included in this number.

The federal government maintains fleets of merchant ships via organizations such as Military Sealift Command and the National Defense Reserve Fleet. In 2004, the federal government employed approximately 5% of all American water transportation workers.

The ratio of Merchant Marine personnel (using the figure of 100,000) to active Navy personnel, excluding reserves, is 100,000 to 327,172 or ~0.30565 to 1. I assume that all naval logistics personnel are government employees and are considered part of the military forces as well if your contentions are to be literally read and interpreted as stated. The entire United States Government employs around three million people, give or take some. With twenty people serving in logistics roles for every sailor on board a ship, there would have to be 6,543,400 logistics personnel, a statistically invalid number!

All hyperbole aside, Hippostania's navy could probably operate with around 100,000 merchant marine personnel and another 200,000 logistics personnel, assuming that the naval crew figure of 298,328 does not already include the logistics ships. The Hippostanian naval establishment can have any amount of civilian employees, depending on how bureaucratically heavy it is.

by **Ponistan** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:36 pm

Again, I think it's unfair to compare to the United States. You should ask yourself if you can honestly say your country can rank as a rival to the most powerful single nation that the world has ever seen. A more reasonable comparison for military might would be Germany, the UK, India, France.

NS Military Realism Consultation Thread

NS Military Realism Consultation Thread

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