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All the World's Dreadnoughts

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]
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Mount Shavano
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All the World's Dreadnoughts

Postby Mount Shavano » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:02 pm

Image


Greetings!

Resurrected from five years deep in the forum like West Virginia was resurrected from the mud in Pearl Harbor, this thread is an attempt to catalog all dreadnought battleships and battlecruisers of the Nationstates world.

Here's how it works: I've put together and will maintain a Factbook section for the lists. Nations are invited and requested to submit their ship designs.

Ship Submission


Realism is highly encouraged, as is originality; just saying "I used the Iowa class" is highly discouraged. Don't know what's realistic? I've put a very basic realism guide below as a reference, and I love answering questions about dreadnoughts, so post a question in thread or shoot me a telegram.

I realize all national histories are subject to revision; if you update your canon feel free to make a new post or send a telegram to tell me to revise the list.

To submit a ship for addition, use the following form. Post in the thread, or telegram it to me:

The "Add my battleship to the list!" Form
Code: Select all
[b]Class Name:[/b]
[b]Displacement (standard):[/b]
[b]Primary Armament (in inches):[/b]
[b]Maximum Armor Belt Thickness in inches:[/b]
[b]Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing, Incremental, etc):[/b]
[b]Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc):[/b]
[b]Power Source (Oil, Coal, Mixed, etc):[/b]
[b]Speed in knots:[/b]
[b]Endurance in nautical miles:[/b]
[b]Year in service:[/b]
[b]Year last unit retired or sunk:[/b]
[b]Number of units:[/b]


They won't make it into the table, but putting additional information like secondary weapons, detailed armor layouts, turret configurations, pictures, and what the ship name means to your people in your posts is encouraged!

Quick and Dirty Realism Guide


I'm going to start with a list of technical achievements and dates. I'm focusing on the aspects that appear in the table.

Maximum gun size on a dreadnought:
12" : 1906
13.5" : 1912
15" : 1915
16" : 1920
18" : 1941 (although it likely could have been done in the early 20s, had the Washington Treaty not intervened)

Maximum Speed for BBs:
Standard from 1906 to 1914 across all major navies was 21 knots. Some navies (e.g. Britain) built special fast ships of 24-25 knots to complement their slower line from mid-1910s. The Japanese steadily escalated the speed of their battleline from the mid-1910s until the WNT. 24 knots 1916, 27 knots 1920, ships planned for mid-20s 30 knots but to do it they had to stay towards the weaker end of armor. For the battleships that were new in WW2, there is basically a fast group of ~30 knots (Germans, Italians, French) and a slow one of about 27 (British, Japanese, Americans).

Some navies tacked on a few knots in exchange for losing a couple inches or armor relative to foreign design. These were mostly minor countries that wanted showy ships more than fighting ships, but the Italians were a serious navy and also did this.

BB armor:
Dreadnought and her competitors generally had belts of 10" to 12", which escalated until Jutland, where it was at 12" to 14". After that, belts held pretty steady while protection improvements generally went to decks and torpedo defense systems (Yamato's 16" belt excepted).

The traditional Incremental layout was generally replaced after Jutland (May 1916) with the new All-or-Nothing layout for new construction with two major exceptions: The Americans had switched to All-or-Nothing on its purely theoretical benefits in 1912, and the Germans drew different lessons from Jutland and never did.

Engines:

The world standard prior to HMS Dreadnought was vertical triple expansion engines; the British introduced turbines with Dreadnought. The Germans held out until 1909, waiting for a German firm to be able to build them rather than paying British manufacturers. The Americans, apparently over fuel efficiency concerns, were laying down VTE battleships as late as 1912. The American standards (mid-1910s to early 1920s) used a turbo-electric drive that offered superior damage resistance and stopping/backing ability but less horsepower for the weight. Steam turbines were pretty much universal after 1930, although some planned but never finished German capital ships used marine diesels (better range but less reliability, at least in German practice).

The first oil-fired battleship entered service right at the beginning of 1915; coal fired ships were being built in some countries until the end of World War I, but ships surviving the Washington Treaty were pretty much universally converted to oil. For those of you building BBs into the modern era, the first nuclear powered warship of any size was 1955 and first nuclear carrier was 1958, so late 50s makes sense for a BBN.

Battlecruisers:

There were two schools of battlecruiser design: The British and the German. The initial British battlecruisers had armor to resist cruiser guns (6" to 9"), either one size smaller main guns or one turret less than the contemporary battleships, and very high speed (1908: 25 knots, 1912: 28 knots, 1917: 32 knots). German battlecruisers generally accepted a belt about 2" less than their BBs (but still in the battleship range), and like the British generally either went one gun size smaller or carried one less turret. Their speed advantage over battleships was less, topping out at about 27 knots.

The last British design, Hood, and the unbuilt German plans (which just kept putting larger and larger guns on Derfflinger), essentially converged somewhere in the middle, although the Americans did design and begin but not a finish a ship in the proper British style, with 33 knots, 16" guns, and very poor armor.

The battlecruiser was essentially dead in terms of new construction after the early 20s (planned or actual), with the fast battleship having generally converged with it in the ships killed by the WNT (Lexington excepted).

The Washington Treaty

In 1922, the major naval powers of the world signed a treaty that stopped all new battleship construction (with a couple exceptions) and mandated the scrapping of enough old ships of each to country to get a balance of power that everyone could at least tolerate. The primary motivation was financial; battleships are expensive. There were a number of follow ups. All real world navies were affected by this treaty in several ways, since it wound up defining the fleets everyone went to war with in 1939, the size of the new battleships of the late 30s, it created the heavy cruiser (with 10k tons, 8" being the maximum "not a battleship"), and since it allowed for the conversion of some of the cancelled BCs to CVs, it kickstarted naval aviation.

If you want to build a navy that follows the WNT rules, for realism or whatever, use the following rules:

- If it is larger than 10,000 tons, or carries guns larger than 8", it is a capital ship.
- No ships can be larger than 35k ton displacement or carry guns larger than 16".
- Two capital ships currently building can be converted to carriers of max 33k tons.

Here's the total tonnage of battleships you can keep after 1922, and the total tonnage of carriers you build before the treaty breaks down in the late 30s, including those conversions:



RankAllowed BB tonnageAllowed CV tonnage
1st (e.g., Britain, USA)525k tons135k tons
2nd (e.g., Japan)315k tons81k tons
3rd (e.g. France, Italy)175k tons60k tons


You should have no new battleships until the late 30s, and ships begun between ~1936 to 1939 should be about 35,000 tons displacement (USA, Britain, France stayed pretty close, Germany and Italy built 20% bigger and lied about it. Fascists).

Other Business


I am taking nominations for the nation who shall have the honor of being officially recognized by this project as the first to have built a dreadnought battleship. It should be a nation with a long and well regarded history of RP, as well as one that has invested some effort in fleshing out their historical navy.
Last edited by Mount Shavano on Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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Mount Shavano
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Mount Shavano » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:03 pm

Last edited by Mount Shavano on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:43 am, edited 52 times in total.

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Bellganamos
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Founded: Apr 15, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Bellganamos » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:58 pm

Class Name: Peacemaker-class (Ironic?)
Displacement (standard): 48,532 tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 9x '16/45 cal.
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 14'
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): All-or-Nothing
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal-fired
Speed (in knots): 22 knots
Operational Radius (in nmi): 11,500 nmi
Year in service: 1924
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1959
Number of units: 6 (Peacemaker, Freedom, Constitution, Candor, Righteous, Judean Sea


Class Name: Ascendancy-class
Displacement (standard): 55,430 tons (1958)
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 12x 16'/50 cal (one turret later removed in 1970 in favor of box SAM launcher)
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 16'
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): All-or-Nothing
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil-fired
Speed (in knots): 26 knots
Operational Radius (in nmi): 12,000 nmi
Year in service: 1954
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1985
Number of units: 4 (Ascendancy, Dominance, Endeavor, Unity)
00:34 Minn: I suddenly fear Bell now.

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Syreene states
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Founded: Nov 19, 2010
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Postby Syreene states » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:37 pm

Class Name: Ngake class
Displacement (standard): 24,175 tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 8x12" L/45
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 10 in
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): steam turbines, 4 screws, total of 29,000shp intalled.
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil fired.
Speed (in knots): 25 kts
Operational Radius (in nmi):~9,000 nmi at 15kts
Year in service:1912
Year last unit retired or sunk:1965
Number of units:2

Notes: The Ngake and Toi were the prides of the Syreene Navy, and of Syreene Defense Works, as each was easily up to the world standard at the time of construction, thanks to innovative gearing systems, and an insistance on the use of Oil for propulsion. Although the Ngakes were soon outmatched by more modern designs, they continued to serve as the flagships of the Syreene Navy until their retirement in the early sixties, after over five decades of service. Given the massively varied sea states and climates that the class were expected to operate in on a single cruise, both ships were designed to both to double as Ice Breakers, and to comfortably handle the tropical heat. Both are currently museum ships, and are the only Battleships ever built or operated by the Syreene States.

Ngake-class BB
Displacement: Standard: 27,033 tons
Length: 541 ft (165.00 m)
Beam: 88 ft 3 in (26.90 m)
Draft: 28.3 ft (8.6 m)
Installed power: 32,000 shp
Propulsion: steam turbines, 4 screws
Speed: 25 knots
Range: 8,776 nmi at 15 kts
Oil: 4,500 tons
Complement: 1,001 officers and men
Armament:
8 × 12 in (30 cm)/45 cal guns
16 × 5 in (127 mm)/51 cal guns
2 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes
(Later refits added 24x20mm Oerlikon AA and 8x40mm Bofors L/60 AA)
Armor:
Belt: 9–11 in (229–279 mm)
Lower casemate: 8–10 in (203–254 mm)
Upper casemate: 5 in (127 mm)
Barbettes: 4–10 in (102–254 mm)
Turret face: 12 in (305 mm)
Conning tower: 11.5 in (292 mm)
Decks: 1.5 in (38 mm)
Year in service:1912
Year last unit retired or sunk:1965
Number of units:2
Last edited by Syreene states on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Beth Gellert
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Beth Gellert » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:31 pm

Class Name: Iwtopia (Utopia)
Displacement: 62,720t
Primary Armament: 12x16.14”/52 (4x3)
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness: 17”
Armor Layout: Incremental
Powerplant Type: Integrated Full Electric Propulsion System
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: oil
Speed (in knots): 29 (official; >30 reported)
Operational Radius: 6,500nm at 16kts with ship-dedicated fuel, 9,000nm at 16kts with reserve and escort-assigned stores
Year in service: 2003
Year last unit retired or sunk: in service
Number of units: 37 (plus 1 lost in 2009)

notes-
*obviously, the Iwtopia is not so much 'historical' as current, but since they are the first and only true battleships designed and built in the country by an independent government (rather than by colonial occupiers driven-out only in the 1940s, who built RL designs anyway) I thought it as well to contribute what Beddgelert does have; up to you whether or not to include it in the chart, I suppose!

*the main guns are 410mm, hence '16.14”' more or less; it may also be worth noting that the main guns are capable of firing sub-calibre 280mm (roughly 11”) rounds to extreme range

*regarding operational radius I'm a little confused, because the figures listed for your own ships look more like total range than radius, so I may be misunderstanding something there

*below is a more extensive write-up and an illustration, spoilered-up for clutter reduction

Image

Background

Towards the end of his rule, Prince Llewellyn, isolated on the islands of Victoria and Salvador, began development of gun and armour ships intended to disrupt poorly escorted invasion transport fleets and provide gunfire support for his own counter-invasion plans against the Soviet-controlled mainland. Reunification saw the Prince deposed and his plans scrapped, but the technologies and facilities that survived enabled the First Commonwealth, under a militant leadership, to commission two gun and armour ships, which were later titled Black Flag Class Armoured Gunboats.

These gunboats suffered badly from a lack of experience in numerous key technological and tactical fields, and remained upopular with crews who complained of poor seakeeping, suspect reliability, and buggy gun mountings. Still, the experience of building and using heavy guns -the Black Flags carried two triple mounts with 11" (280mm) guns- and forging hundreds of tons of armour plate proved Soviet capacity.

Role

Ship-to-ship warfare with gun, missile, and helicopter armament; and, also:
-Survivable command hub through advanced communications and staff quartering in ample design space behind heavy armour weight
-Intimidating presence through sheer size and the ability to survive fire and provide visible proof of these qualities close to shore
-Reduction of coastal defences with cost-effective heavy and rapid gunfire and rocketry
-Augmentation of marine forces thanks to carriage of naval infantry and equipment in designed safety and comfort

Secondary roles include:
-Self defence by heavy armour; modern countermeasures; point-defence gun, rocket, and missile batteries
-Some theatre anti-ballistic-missile duty with a capability for a large and heavy air-burst volley, probably directed by Citadel-S aboard associated vessels
-Potential fleet defence through capable absorption of disproportionate enemy attention and delivery of suppressing fire
-Resupply and refuel of fleet assets through substantial stores and in-built transfer conduits

Ship

Dimensions:
-Length 887ft/270.35m waterline, 921ft/280.72m overall
-Beam 128ft 4in/39.1m
-Draught 33ft 10in/10.3m
Displacement:
-Standard 62,720t
-Full Load 71,490t
Complement:
-Wartime 1,350
-Flag 1,492
Aircraft:
-3 to 4 helicopters, DAG-330 Koogyr, DAG-316 Chetak
Notes
-Only three of the larger Koogyr helicopters are supposed to be carried, where as four Chetak are easily accepted. Koogyr are indicated in dedicated anti-submarine warfare taskforces of which Iwtopia is rarely likely to be a part, and Chetak are the intended usual aircraft.
-DAG-316 are typically used for search-and-rescue, and often as anti-ship-missile decoys. They also ferry persons and supplies between ships and between ship and shore.
Troops:
-Accommodation for 400 equipped Soviet Marines or 800 under wartime conditions.

Armament

Primary Battery:
-12x 410mm 52cal guns (4x3)
Notes
-The largest shipboard guns ever built in Beddgelert.
-Iwtopia's guns can be loaded at any angle, meaning that they need not depress and elevate between each salvo. Firing interval is, officially, below 20 seconds.
-A range of 50km is reported for the 410mm guns at optimum elevation and with a full charge, but this does not take into account base-bleed and even rocket-assissted shells, both of which are available.
-280mm subcalibre rounds give an 80km range and carry similar weight to the warhead element of a Tomahawk cruise missile, while travelling much faster and being ideal for mounting of a penetrator warhead.
-The Soviet 410/52 guns are extremely powerful high-pressure weapons that can generally expect to endure relatively few firings before barrel-change is required: the BPA judges that the Iwtopias will serve mostly within the Soviet sphere of influence, in the Indian Ocean, relatively close to major home ports, and so can more easily put-in than is the case for ships of the imperialist powers, which may face the prospect of a major overhaul in a remote backwater colony and so do not lean the same way in the power/wear balance.
-The main battery can, by fragmentation shells and data-link with Awyr Goch complex ashore or aboard other warships, be directed in an anti-ballistic-missile role, though the potential engagement envelope is limited by elevation.

Secondary Battery:
-8x110mm 62cal DP guns (4x2)
-72x200mm Caledfwlch rocket tubes (6x12)
-16xBlaen anti-ship cruise missile tubes (4x4)
Notes
-High-velocity rapid-fire dual-purpose guns are new-generation long-range weapons with various shell types including air-burst anti-aircraft/missile rounds and guided surface-attack munitions. Range is 35km with conventional shells and 100km with extended-range munitions, and rate-of-fire is over 20 rounds per minute for each gunbarrel, or more than 40 per mount.
-Rockets are evolved Caledfwlch with dual thrust, and are contained in six boxes, three per side. Range is extended to 120km and payload is 250kg. Maximum thrust accelerates 200mm rockets to Mach 4.7 and 40km altitude, then throttles-down for cruise to target. Rockets strike at Mach 1.8, causing massive damage and destroying potential 3.9sq.km area. Some reports suggest that continued guidance problems plague the evolved system.
-Blaen are in four armoured ready-to-launch quadruple canisters with a reload in magazine. Agile high-subsonic seaskimmers, these have 145kg warheads and inertial/active-radar guidance. Range is from 5 to 130km.

Air Defence Battery:
-32xMura-S surface-to-air missile silos (4x8)
-8xGA-30-5/2 close-in weapons systems
Notes
-Mura-S is a vertical-launch-system dealing with multiple threats from wavetop to 15,000m and close-in to 28km. Guidance uses microprocessor intelligence and frequency agility technology to take full advantage of high-agility gas-dynamic missile control and Mach 4.5 velocity. The system protects against both aircraft and missiles, but it is intended that Iwtopias would benefit from fleet air defence assets for long-range protection.
-2 Scrobbeyder search and Gorm fire-control radar direct Mura. The system has a 90km range, and each of the two sets trace up to 12 targets and direct 4 simultaneous engagements with up to 8 missiles.
-each CIWS position combines dual-mounted radar-directed 5-barrel 30mm rotary cannons with 4 radar/optics-guided Sumpit high-velocity missiles.

Other Weapons:
-24x200mm Draenog anti-submarine-warfare rocket tubes (4x6)
-Several machineguns
Notes
-Draenog is a Beddgelen Soviet system introduced in 2006 following 1st Commonwealth use of RBU-1000 and RBU-6000. It uses rockets derived from a sub-project carried-out by universities involved in Caledfwlch's development, and can be used against submarines, divers, and torpedoes. Draenog can attack targets at a depth beyond that attainable by any known combat submarine. Several complete reloads are carried in the magazines, and reloading is automatic. A kill probability of better than 0.8 is reported against the most modern submarines and against homing torpedoes, while successful interception of a straight-running torpedo is close to assured: with digitised multi-target-handling capability, two systems per side, and a range of several kilometres, Draenog theoretically means that an average of better than two-dozen enemy torpedoes are required before the odds favour a hit on a Iwtopia Class battleship. Soft countermeasures are intended to further enhance this statistic in Iwtopia's favour, so too the ship's considerable agility.
-Number and type of machineguns may vary, as these weapons are dismountable and may be associated with Soviet Marine detachments transported aboard Iwtopias. The new 6mm Md.100 multi-role machinegun is far the most likely candidate, and would be mounted for use in last-line-of-defence operation against aerial or surface threats.

Countermeasures

-Infra-red spoofing decive
-Chaff launchers
-Radar Warning Receivers and Jamming system
-Towed torpedo decoy
-Disposable noisemakers
Notes
-Computers with manual over-ride co-ordinate multi-layer defences in each threat-arena, directing hard and soft kill response to every threat as appropriate. For example, so-called noisemakers are deployed as part of Draenog system and do not interrupt direct intercept of incoming torpedoes.

Armour

Notes
-Steel used in the Iwtopia's armour scheme is forged of Silurian iron, which is rated as some of the finest in the world, and with the benefit of more than two thousand years of high-quality steelsmithing.

Belt:
-Up to 432mm (17in) main belt
-38mm (1.5in) to 203mm (8in) internal belt
Notes
-Iwtopia's large beam is necessitated partly by the incline of the external belt.
-The internal belt has been called unnecessary, given the incline of the outer belt, and it represents a serious expense and provisioning for maintenance access entails further complication. However, the Iwtopias, as Beddgelert's first battleships and much smaller than the super ships deployed by many nations, are intended to be some of the world's finest, and the expense is partly off-set by the smallness of the run, with roughly two Iwtopias existing for every billion citizens in the Commonwealth.
Deck:
-50mm (2in) top deck
-178mm (7in) main deck
-20mm (0.8in) para-aramid lined splinter deck
Notes
-Top-deck is designed to stop some incoming shells, general-purpose bombs, and top-attack missiles, and to defeat some piercing bombs and at least arm others for detonation prior to the main deck or dislodge blasting caps.
-Main deck is designed to defeat heavy plunging shells and penetrating bombs that pass the top deck.
-Splinter deck contains damage to the main deck.
Main Turrets:
-635mm (25in) face
-255mm (10in) top
-292mm (11.5in) rear
-267mm (10.5in) sides
Conning Tower:
-235mm (9.25in) roof
-470mm (18.5in) sides
-95mm (3.75in) floor
Notes
-Tower has two main layers. Roof armour represents what is on top, while the floor is that of the upper layer and acts as roof to the second, which generally is the more important in ship operations.
Barbettes:
-432mm (17in) to 572mm (22.5in)
Bulkheads:
-Most 318mm (12.5in) to 432mm (17in)
-Para-aramid-lined splinter protection common
Torpedo/Mine:
Notes
-The Iwtopia design incorporates a triple-bottom; the lower part of the side belts are involved in under-water protection; and three-layers of torpedo bulkheads are enhanced by the placement of tanks, some of which are kept void while others carry water or liquid fuel for fleet replenishment missions, all of which are designed to deform and contain shock and absorb leaks from eachother.
-Iwtopia also has a greatly reinforced keel, and propulsion and steering systems are protected as far as possible.

Propulsion

Powerplant:
-Ashpo T-4 IFEPS Integrated Full Electric Propulsion System
-200,000shp
Notes
-IFEPS enables other systems to be powered by the main drive, easing maintenance, but batteries and several diesel generators are held in reserve should the primary powerplant be compromised.
-Though few corners were cut elsewhere in the design, the use of IFEPS instead of nuclear power represents one saving, and is made with knowledge of the limited operational theatre in which Iwtopia is intended to serve.
Propellers:
-4
Notes
-Thanks to the IFEPS drive, Iwtopia's design was able to mount the ships' propellers in pods.
-These can be mounted more quickly than the conventional shaft drive and are easily accessed for maintenance, being removable without drydock facilities.
-The pod design reduces drag by several percent, compensating slightly for the ship's considerable beam in achieving acceptable speed and fuel-efficiency.
-This arrangement also means that the ship has two separate engine-rooms in different parts of the ship, positioned to enhance damage-control and make the best use of available space.
-In addition to pushing the ship, two of a Iwtopia's pod-mounted propellers can be directed around 360 degrees to steer the ship, which is especially useful in enclosed waters as well as during combat manoeuvre.
-The pods are quite heavily armoured, and signature reduction is evident thanks to electric and streamlining elements.
-Some concerns remain over combat-readiness of an otherwise proven system, mainly in relation to survivability of essential connections during intense vibration caused by explosions and weapon strikes on the ship.
Bunkerage:
-6,800t oil
Notes
-Since Iwtopia is designed to operate mostly within the Indian Ocean and its surrounding seas, a significant portion of the ship's bunkerage is intended to support the battleship's own escorts.

Performance

Speed:
-29kts maximum offical.
-16kts cruise.
Notes
-Actual maximum speed may be 30kts or more.
Range:
-6,500nm at 16kts with ship-dedicated fuel.
-9,000nm at 16kts with reserve and escort-assigned stores.
-2,150nm at 28kts with ship-dedicated fuel.
-3,000nm at 28kts with reserve and escort-assigned stores.
Last edited by Beth Gellert on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Inutoland
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Posts: 2881
Founded: Jun 07, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Inutoland » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:01 pm

Here's Inutoland's list:

Class Name: Confederation-class Battleship
Displacement (standard): 32,628 short tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 8x380mm = 14.96"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 390mm = 15.35"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil fired
Speed (in knots): 21 knots
Endurance (in nmi): ~9,500 nmi at 15 knots
Year in service: 1914
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1933
Number of units: 8

Class Name: Tuyas-class Battleship
Displacement (standard): 31,416 short tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 8x380mm = 14.96"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 390mm = 15.35"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal fired
Speed (in knots): 23.5 knots
Endurance (in nmi): ~9,000 nmi at 15 knots
Year in service: 1912
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1922
Number of units: 9*

*Includes 3x Fulcrum-class Battlecruisers (see below)

Class Name: Fulcrum-class Battlecruiser
Displacement (standard): 31,416 short tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 8x380mm = 14.96"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 228mm = 8.98"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal-fired
Speed (in knots): 27 knots
Endurance (in nmi): ~9,000 nmi at 16 knots
Year in service: 1914
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1928
Number of units: 3

Class Name: Coatewan-class Battleship
Displacement (standard): 49,604 short tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 9x427.5mm = 16⅞"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 332.5mm = 13.09"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil fired
Speed (in knots): 28 knots
Endurance (in nmi): 10,600 nmi at 14 knots
Year in service: 1932
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1978
Number of units: 13

Class Name: Mota the Great-class Carrier Battleship <OOC: not sure if this is acceptable. It's a hybrid class>
Displacement (standard): 72,753 short tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 9x427.5mm = 16⅞"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 332.5mm = 13.09"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil fired
Speed (in knots): 33 knots
Endurance (in nmi): 12,000 nmi at 20 knots
Year in service: 1938
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1949 (retired due to peacetime upkeep being too expensive.)
Number of units: 4

Edited for number of primary armament. Edited again for links. Edited once more - fixed typo on speed.
Last edited by Inutoland on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Capisaria
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Postby Capisaria » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:10 pm

Class Name: Acquisition
Displacement (standard): 20,000 Tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 20 Inches
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 15 Inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Mixed
Speed (in knots): 25 Knots
Endurance (in nmi): 10,000 at 15 knots
Year in service: 1941 (1950 in Capisarian Calendar)
Year last unit retired or sunk: Retired in 1986 (1997 Capisarian Calendar)
Number of units: 25

Please note, this class is an old one not from our current nation, but the preceding Federation of Capisaria.

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Mount Shavano
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Postby Mount Shavano » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:25 pm

Capisaria wrote:Class Name: Acquisition
Displacement (standard): 20,000 Tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 20 Inches
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 15 Inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Mixed
Speed (in knots): 25 Knots
Endurance (in nmi): 10,000 at 15 knots
Year in service: 1941 (1950 in Capisarian Calendar)
Year last unit retired or sunk: Retired in 1986 (1997 Capisarian Calendar)
Number of units: 25

Please note, this class is an old one not from our current nation, but the preceding Federation of Capisaria.


So noted. How many 20" guns does she carry?

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Hungramy
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Postby Hungramy » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:45 pm

Class Name:Kaiserin Class
Displacement (standard):64,000
Primary Armament (in inches, please):16x490mm = 20.09 inches
[b]Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please):420mm = 16.53 inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental):incremental
[b]Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc):Turbo-electric
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed:Mixed
Speed (in knots):20 knots
Endurance (in nmi):
Year in service:2004-today
Year last unit retired or sunk:one sunk 3 years ago
Number of units: 45
Last edited by Hungramy on Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Alogachia
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Postby Alogachia » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:05 pm

Mostly between Twiluna aaaaaannnnd that's not the ship battle you meant. Well. This is embarrassing.
Last edited by Alogachia on Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Star Trek America
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Postby Star Trek America » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:57 pm

Class Name: Amon Ra-class Super Heavy Battleship
Displacement (standard): 47,000 tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 2x4 22"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 19.8 inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental):Belt: 19.8
Bulkheads: 11.3 in (290 mm),
Barbettes: 11.6 to 17.3 in (295 to 439 mm),
Turrets: 19.7 in (500 mm),
Decks: 7.5 in (190 mm)

Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: Coal Fired
Speed (in knots): 18 knots (on a good day) 14 knots (normally)
Endurance (in nmi): 14,890 nautical miles
Year in service: 1942 - Present
Year last unit retired or sunk: Present Service (Last Sunk - Jan 31st 1954 - USS Sutek)
Number of units: 9 (4 in active service; 3 in reserve, 2 sunk)
Last edited by Star Trek America on Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Radictistan
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Postby Radictistan » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:05 pm

Well, it just so happens that I've been making some PT ships in Springsharp. Here are all three dreadnaught classes built for the alt-Royal Radictistan Navy.

Class Name: Defiant
Displacement (standard): 27,363t
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 5x2 12"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 11.8"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Reciprocating + Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal
Speed (in knots): 23kt
Endurance (in nmi): 8200nm @ 16kt
Year in service: 1911
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1942
Number of units: Four

The first dreadnaughts built for the Royal Radictistan Navy, the Defiant-class were a little less armored than their foreign contemporaries, but were well-liked and useful ships. They received modest refits in the early 1920s which saw the introduction of new fire control equipment, although the type was never converted to oil-firing. They were placed into reserve beginning in 1937 and struck from the Navy List in 1942.



Class Name: Norcustsur
Displacement (standard): 34,676t
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 2x3 + 2x2 13.4"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 11.8"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal
Speed (in knots): 26.5kt
Endurance (in nmi): 8700nm @ 16kt
Year in service: 1918
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1946
Number of units: Four

Nocrustsur and her sisters, Eastval, Yestingsur, Hyarpsur, represented a great achievement of Radictistani shipbuilding. A main battery of ten 34cm guns brought shame to most foreign competitors. A host of technological improvements were also instituted including central fire control and an all-turbine propulsion suite. The four ships underwent a major refit in the late 1920s.


Class Name: Fatherland
Displacement (standard): 49,884t
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 3x3 15"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 17.7"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil
Speed (in knots): 31.8kt
Endurance (in nmi): 9600nm @ 20kt
Year in service: 1938
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1952
Number of units: Four

The four ships of the class were the ultimate battleships built for the Royal Radictistan Navy. They were fast, heavily armed, and had a long cruising range. The first, Fatherland, was commissioned in 1938. Two more were commissioned in 1940 and the last entered service in 1941.

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Beth Gellert
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Postby Beth Gellert » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:05 am

Mount Shavano wrote:
Capisaria wrote:Class Name: Acquisition
Displacement (standard): 20,000 Tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 20 Inches
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 15 Inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental


So noted. How many 20" guns does she carry?


On 20,000 tonnes with up to 15" of incremental armour on the belt, I'm going to take a guess at, "one".

Similarly, the Kaiserin Class has sixteen >20" guns on just 64,000t? Not... twice that? Several thousand tons lighter than the Yamato with 7 more guns of significantly greater bore? And the Amon Ra, 8x22" and the better part of 20" armour in various parts, only 47,000t?

I thought Soviet engineers working in the 1990s and 2000s had done a good job getting a dozen 16"ers on ~63,000 (>71,000 full) and was wondering whether I should bump up the displacement slightly, but on the same displacement there are ships with four more guns of almost 4" greater calibre. Colour me skeptical!
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Mount Shavano
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Postby Mount Shavano » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:51 am

Beth Gellert wrote:On 20,000 tonnes with up to 15" of incremental armour on the belt, I'm going to take a guess at, "one".

Similarly, the Kaiserin Class has sixteen >20" guns on just 64,000t? Not... twice that? Several thousand tons lighter than the Yamato with 7 more guns of significantly greater bore? And the Amon Ra, 8x22" and the better part of 20" armour in various parts, only 47,000t?

I thought Soviet engineers working in the 1990s and 2000s had done a good job getting a dozen 16"ers on ~63,000 (>71,000 full) and was wondering whether I should bump up the displacement slightly, but on the same displacement there are ships with four more guns of almost 4" greater calibre. Colour me skeptical!


You could probably get a pair of 20" on 20,000 tons, if the turrets were lightweight and the armor belt either mostly way below its maximum thickness or very short. Something like HMS Furious (non-carrier configuration) trading some speed for armor and bigger guns. She comes across more like a fast monitor than a true battleship.

The Kaiserin is a little ridiculous. I think the author doesn't have a lot of experience with battleship designs - the displacement was blank until his second edit - so I think if he happens to read this and revise his post to have double the currently posited displacement it would greatly enhance the realism of his design.

Amon Ra is the least bad of the three, mostly because of all the weight saved by being so dang slow and having two quads instead of four twins. Still, her displacement could be doubled and her realism wouldn't suffer.

Your ship doesn't ring any "wat" bells with me. She's a little below the median of displacement for those capabilities, but within the realistic range.

I think my policy for this thread is going to be add what is posted, and that unrealistic claims can be dismissed by individual readers as propaganda, if they so choose.

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Beth Gellert
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Postby Beth Gellert » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:08 am

Ah, right, that does seem like a reasonable course of action. I suppose that in reality, contemporary sources were often quite wrong about plenty of statistics, having to go on a mix of what foreign propaganda states and wild guesswork, so it's all the more realistic in that sense.

I think in my case I'll go with the information provided being from official government sources in Beddgelert, and perhaps if you were to actually measure the displacement you'd find it marginally above the nominal figure. Close enough for most purposes, anyway.

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Capisaria
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Postby Capisaria » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:22 am

Mount Shavano wrote:
Capisaria wrote:Class Name: Acquisition
Displacement (standard): 20,000 Tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 20 Inches
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 15 Inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Steam Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Mixed
Speed (in knots): 25 Knots
Endurance (in nmi): 10,000 at 15 knots
Year in service: 1941 (1950 in Capisarian Calendar)
Year last unit retired or sunk: Retired in 1986 (1997 Capisarian Calendar)
Number of units: 25

Please note, this class is an old one not from our current nation, but the preceding Federation of Capisaria.


So noted. How many 20" guns does she carry?


5 on each side, 6 at bow, and 6 at stern

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Radictistan
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Postby Radictistan » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:33 am

Capisaria wrote:
Mount Shavano wrote:
So noted. How many 20" guns does she carry?


5 on each side, 6 at bow, and 6 at stern

That ship would capsize if it ever tried firing a broadside. Even tripling the displacement might not be enough to help with stability. I'd have to run some numbers to check. This of course, putting aside the weight problem. My Fatherland-class has a magazine weight that's almost half your dispacement and it only carries 9 15" guns.

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Mount Shavano
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Postby Mount Shavano » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:38 am

Radictistan wrote:That ship would capsize if it ever tried firing a broadside. Even tripling the displacement might not be enough to help with stability. I'd have to run some numbers to check. This of course, putting aside the weight problem. My Fatherland-class has a magazine weight that's almost half your dispacement and it only carries 9 15" guns.


tbh, I suspect it would collapse from the weight of the guns before even being completely assembled, let alone firing a broadside.

Tripling the displacement, however, might be adequate for guns not in armored turrets; a lot of weight saved there.

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Risen Britannia
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Postby Risen Britannia » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:33 pm

Image
(using my old flag)
Class Name: Tengu
Displacement (standard): 47,000 long tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 3x3 16" guns
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 12.5"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): steam turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil fired
Speed (in knots): 27 knots
Endurance (in nmi): 6,332 nautical miles at 20knots
Year in service: 1930
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1956
Number of units: 3

(could someone explain "All-or-Nothing or Incremental")
Last edited by Risen Britannia on Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Oceanic Vakiadia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Oceanic Vakiadia » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:36 pm

(OoC: Is PMT allowed here?)
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Mount Shavano
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Postby Mount Shavano » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:42 pm

Oceanic Vakiadia wrote:(OoC: Is PMT allowed here?)


Sure.

Risen Britannia wrote:(could someone explain "All-or-Nothing or Incremental")


http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-070.htm

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Oceanic Vakiadia
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Postby Oceanic Vakiadia » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:47 pm

Class Name: Leptonyx
Displacement (standard): 38,752t
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 2x3 + 2x2 13.5"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 13.5"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbo-Electric
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal-Fired
Speed (in knots): 24 knots
Endurance (in nmi): 13,230 nmi at 15 knots
Year in service: 2626 (Yeah, I know, pretty far ahead for PMT...)
Year last unit retired or sunk: In service
Number of units: 18
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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:04 pm

Class Name: Sovereign
Displacement (standard): 22,102
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 10 x 12”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 11”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal
Speed (in knots): 21.56
Endurance (in nmi): 5,720
Year in service: 17
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1923
Number of units: 2

Class Name: Haroldus
Displacement (standard): 22,700
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 10 x 12”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 11”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal
Speed (in knots): 21
Endurance (in nmi): 6,125
Year in service: 27
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1935
Number of units: 6

Class Name: Sinister
Displacement (standard): 16,600
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 8 x 12”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 12”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil
Speed (in knots): 18.79
Endurance (in nmi): 6,950
Year in service: 22
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1930
Number of units: 4

Class Name: Dauntless
Displacement (standard): 23,400
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 10 x 13.5”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 12”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil
Speed (in knots): 21
Endurance (in nmi): 5,700
Year in service: 25
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1936
Number of units: 6

Class Name: First Lord
Displacement (standard): 33,000
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 8 x 15”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 13”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil
Speed (in knots): 24
Endurance (in nmi): 5,000
Year in service: 33
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1952
Number of units: 8

Class Name: Sanxay Straits
Displacement (standard): 30,250
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 14 x 12”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 9”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incrementel
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil
Speed (in knots): 22.4
Endurance (in nmi): 7,000
Year in service: 17
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1933
Number of units: 3

Class Name: Iron Duke
Displacement (standard): 38,000
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 9 x 16”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 14”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil
Speed (in knots): 23
Endurance (in nmi): 16,500
Year in service: 23
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1949
Number of units: 8

Class Name: Dominion
Displacement (standard): 45,370
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 9 x 16”
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 16”
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Oil
Speed (in knots): 28
Endurance (in nmi): 17,450
Year in service: 37
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1977
Number of units: 8

BATTLESHIPS OF THE ROYAL NAVY
Last edited by Grays Harbor on Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Radictistan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Radictistan » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:25 pm

I'm going to go ahead and put up my sole battlecruiser class (German-type, of course).

Class Name: Inexorable
Displacement (standard): 26,426t
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 4x2 11"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 8.7"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbo-electric
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal
Speed (in knots): 29.5kt
Endurance (in nmi): 11000nm @ 16kt
Year in service: 1922
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1938
Number of units: Two

Inexorable (comm. 1922) and Resurgent (comm. 1923) formed the entirety of the Radictistani battlecruiser force. They were intended to hunt enemy commerce raiders and were later used to escort carrier groups. Both ships received refits beginning in 1929 where they received new oil-fired boilers, improved turbines, and increased anti-aircraft armament.
Last edited by Radictistan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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USS Illinois
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Founded: Jul 26, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby USS Illinois » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:10 pm

Illinois class:
70,000 tons:
12x16 inch:
10 in:
all or nothing:
Diesel:
mixed
25 knots:
10,000 nmi:
1940:
still active:
six orginally, two still active with major refits:

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