by The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:56 pm
by Valdanis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:02 pm
The Black Forrest wrote:Cisco is about to dump 10000-16000 workers.
Borders is about to close which will dump another 10000 workers.
But they keep saying the recession is over.
by Mr Bananagrabber » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:09 pm
by Barringtonia » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:28 pm
by The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:12 pm
Barringtonia wrote:Growth and unemployment can also be separate issues, a company can grow while letting employees go, as can economies.
Simply, a large portion of Americans are not educated enough to take up the jobs available nor can they compete against the twin forces of globalisation and technology.
Borders closing is a particularly good example of this, where technology is destroying those jobs, jobs that are replaced elsewhere through higher education employees at Amazon etc.,
by The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:17 pm
Mr Bananagrabber wrote:http://www.nber.org/cycles/recessions.html
The recession ends once we've past the trough. The economy can still be in a shitty state though and have minor reversals of growth.
by Mr Bananagrabber » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:19 pm
The Black Forrest wrote:Mr Bananagrabber wrote:http://www.nber.org/cycles/recessions.html
The recession ends once we've past the trough. The economy can still be in a shitty state though and have minor reversals of growth.
Could not the trough be long? Continuous minor growth will falls?
by The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:25 pm
by Mr Bananagrabber » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:34 pm
The Black Forrest wrote:Mr Bananagrabber wrote:
The recovery can be slow, yes. Or it can turn into another (double dip) recession. So being "out of the recession" isn't exactly a great indicator of the performance of the economy.
I don't buy the recession is over...it's a jobless recovery talk.
Everybody has their economic indicators.
I look at the costs of the basics. I look at the amount of education people unable to find meaningful work. I know many people who are educated and experience who are going on 2 years without a job. I know others who are underemployed.
Another indicator is the loss of perks with a replacement of a nonspoken "your job is your reward"
When they are working I will believe in the economy again.
by Barringtonia » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:01 am
The Black Forrest wrote:There are plenty of educated Americans but now there is a retardation or simply dirty ploy to avoid hiring them as the argument being if you were laid off there must be something wrong with you. Why hire a person when you can try and poach a person who is already working.
Globalization is an interesting argument. Cheaper labor good! Underpaid executives bad. American workers always seem to over paid but American executives are never paid enough.
Jobs are not being replaced. Well they are elsewhere.
Technology destroys more jobs then it will create.
Part of the problem with the use is the people and the leaders still base a job but post industrial standards. We are in a new era and nobody seems to see this. The power of computing will keep a large part of the population unemployed.
Now this is what will really mess things up. When people don't see jobs coming back; they will do the "wrong" things like form unions. Pressure the government to tax the poor oppressed wealthy class.
People will figure it out. Why should I be concerned about low taxes for the wealthy class when they will take it and create jobs offshore
by Cosmopoles » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:21 am
by Vellosia » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:31 am
by Holaloperho » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:22 am
by Neu Leonstein » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:43 am
Holaloperho wrote:Maybe most American (developed countries) is suffering from the depression, but in Asia, most of us is suffering from inflation.
by Cameroi » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:48 am
by Snot Sniper » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:52 am
Cameroi wrote:the world wide, international recession, won't REALLY be over, until ideological prejudice breaths its last with it, and the most powerful nation on the planet, is no longer the thrall of its chamber of commerce.
by Snot Sniper » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:55 am
by Snot Sniper » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:01 am
Neu Leonstein wrote:Holaloperho wrote:Maybe most American (developed countries) is suffering from the depression, but in Asia, most of us is suffering from inflation.
Yep. All that money that's being saved by firing people at Cisco is coming to your place, driving up your share prices, down your interest rates and your banks are using it to lend to people. To the point where central banks are getting pretty desperate to slow things down a tad.
by Hippostania » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:01 am
by Holaloperho » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:02 am
Neu Leonstein wrote:Holaloperho wrote:Maybe most American (developed countries) is suffering from the depression, but in Asia, most of us is suffering from inflation.
Yep. All that money that's being saved by firing people at Cisco is coming to your place, driving up your share prices, down your interest rates and your banks are using it to lend to people. To the point where central banks are getting pretty desperate to slow things down a tad.
by Holaloperho » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:04 am
Snot Sniper wrote:Neu Leonstein wrote:Yep. All that money that's being saved by firing people at Cisco is coming to your place, driving up your share prices, down your interest rates and your banks are using it to lend to people. To the point where central banks are getting pretty desperate to slow things down a tad.
For real? That sounds like "cheap money" looking for borrowers. A bubble in the making. Asian Financial Crisis in the offing?
I want to make it clear that I wouldn't wish for such a thing.
by Snot Sniper » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:16 am
Holaloperho wrote:Snot Sniper wrote:
For real? That sounds like "cheap money" looking for borrowers. A bubble in the making. Asian Financial Crisis in the offing?
I want to make it clear that I wouldn't wish for such a thing.
Yes, financial crisis will start in Asia and other developing countries very soon due to the effect of QE1and QE2
by Neu Leonstein » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:30 am
Snot Sniper wrote:For real? That sounds like "cheap money" looking for borrowers. A bubble in the making. Asian Financial Crisis in the offing?
by Holaloperho » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:37 am
Snot Sniper wrote:Holaloperho wrote:
Yes, financial crisis will start in Asia and other developing countries very soon due to the effect of QE1and QE2
QE is an odd thing. Some call it "printing money" and though it involves no new printed paper it is a bit like that, except that the "new" money is only entered into the economy indirectly, by buying Treasury offerings (bonds and such).
To simplify by pretending that the US really was printing new money: this would increase US inflation (lower the dollar). I don't see how that creates a crisis in Asia?
by Cameroi » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:42 am
Snot Sniper wrote:Cameroi wrote:the world wide, international recession, won't REALLY be over, until ideological prejudice breaths its last with it, and the most powerful nation on the planet, is no longer the thrall of its chamber of commerce.
Are you using some unconventional definition of recession?
There are such definitions, which include the loss over time of uncounted assets (the environment mostly). By those definitions, the world and particularly the US have spent more time in "recession" than "recovery" for the last century at least.
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