PASSED: Condemn The Black Hawks

[Swarmlandia]

I don't know about this. On the one hand, yes they are invaders. Bad invaders, bad. On the other hand, have the Black Hawks actually invaded any region that had more than 5 inactive nations in it (not counting joining bigger raider groups on their invasions). If someone could point out a region that they've destroyed or held under their thumb that had more nations (maybe even WA nations) in it and wasn't devoid of activity it I would be interested to hear about it.

From what I've been seeing lately they've been more scavengers than actual invaders, collecting huge numbers of tiny regions before they died of inactivity all by themselves. The trophies that they've been taking these days are the ones that invaders used to use as getting started training missions. They're running the table on inactive regions that are so small that most defenders aren't even bothering with opposing them. Based on this it can hardly be said that they've had any impact at all on activity in NationStates or the Security Council. Until all the regions of NationStates are reduced to tiny, inactive, founderless regions I can't see how the Black Hawks would be a threat to the NS World or merits the wording of this condemnation.

HAHAHAHAHA. Ahh Well spoken, I said the same thing myself to a few friends. Scavengers attacking regions with no delegates, inactive, and next to no nations. Not a threat.

[Grugazh]

The region of Tyrnaetzi deems the spiral of silence too big of a threat to go unrepremanded. The spiral of silence is the first step to the toppling of regional democracies and forcing them into autocratic compliance.

[Metania]

Now I am wondering if I should name my blender "Spiral of Silence."

[The Bruce]

There are invader groups that the wording of this resolution fits. The Black Hawks on the other hand should be condemned as minor vandals for tagging the world factbook entries of dying and inactive regions, rather than as a great force of destruction.

They're like a couple of kids running around with spray paint bottles and not some feared armada that the resolution makes them out to be. This is like a resolution commending a one nation region for their diplomacy, after sending out a hundred meaningless embassy requests. If someone condemned them as a graffiti group instead of an invader group that would work too.

[Swarmlandia]

There are invader groups that the wording of this resolution fits. The Black Hawks on the other hand should be condemned as minor vandals for tagging the world factbook entries of dying and inactive regions, rather than as a great force of destruction.

They're like a couple of kids running around with spray paint bottles and not some feared armada that the resolution makes them out to be. This is like a resolution commending a one nation region for their diplomacy, after sending out a hundred meaningless embassy requests. If someone condemned them as a graffiti group instead of an invader group that would work too.

Wait wait wait... I know I CTE for 3 years so I am a little ignorant on the past few years. You are saying, there are still invaders out there that do it the old fashion way? o.o Wow I am out of the loop anymore.

[Ballotonia]

Condemning them is way too much honor for them, considering what they do. Expect this one to be repealed quickly if it passes.

Ballotonia

[Lordieth]

Condemning them is way too much honor for them, considering what they do. Expect this one to be repealed quickly if it passes.

Ballotonia

Agreed.

[Mahaj WA Seat]

Condemning them is way too much honor for them, considering what they do. Expect this one to be repealed quickly if it passes.

Ballotonia

Agreed.

I've already created the insta-repeal, you can find it in the SC forum.

[Lordieth]

Ah. Good work Mahaj. I expect we will be needing it. Just a shame we have to take up assembly time with instant pass-and-repeals so regularly. It may be too early to say that in this case, but it's an educated guess of the outcome here.

[The Cure All Tonic]

In all honesty, I think there is no good way to go about this. They attack other nations, yes. These nations are usually weak nations such as myself, yes. This frequent raiding may set a precedent in the future for other nations (i.e. if you can't be economically powerful, you can just invade other nations). On the other hand it is possible that they want a condemnation. They will see it as a pat on the back for being evil. They seem like the kind of people that would find a condemnation to be a badge of honor and not a scarlet letter. I wired a telegram to there leader trying to reason with him but it seems that they will not respond. I believe that the best action we can take is to deny them a condemnation but refuse to interact with them at all. If the WA had the ability to block trade to certain regions then I would say that would be the answer. Either that or completely insulate their region to disallow them to enter or leave.

With respect: Orcus, spouter of prophecies, teller of truths, interpreter of the great ones will.

[The Cure All Tonic]

I don't know about this. On the one hand, yes they are invaders. Bad invaders, bad. On the other hand, have the Black Hawks actually invaded any region that had more than 5 inactive nations in it (not counting joining bigger raider groups on their invasions). If someone could point out a region that they've destroyed or held under their thumb that had more nations (maybe even WA nations) in it and wasn't devoid of activity it I would be interested to hear about it.

From what I've been seeing lately they've been more scavengers than actual invaders, collecting huge numbers of tiny regions before they died of inactivity all by themselves. The trophies that they've been taking these days are the ones that invaders used to use as getting started training missions. They're running the table on inactive regions that are so small that most defenders aren't even bothering with opposing them. Based on this it can hardly be said that they've had any impact at all on activity in NationStates or the Security Council. Until all the regions of NationStates are reduced to tiny, inactive, founderless regions I can't see how the Black Hawks would be a threat to the NS World or merits the wording of this condemnation.

Well put my friend. Yet is this not setting a precedent? Many new players seem to be inactive but just don't know what to do with there nation state. It would be unfortunate if they were to start picking on new nations thus creating an environment of hate that pushes new players away. well, I'm babbling again. We shall see what the WA decides. My regional influence is to low for me to decide on anything.

[AP3 10]

As a small region being raided and losing where we had a home on NS for three years was a set back. Communicating with our defender allies and with the raiders was lengthy, it took time. Building on our already forum centric regional community was fairly easy, waiting on back-up that never come, again, lengthy.

Watching it all die (one more time), was quite hard. Not being able to rebuild if we wanted annoying. Ultimately though, was the community already dead? (well no it wasn't)(should it have been- maybe, but on the greater good thing, it hardly matters). What does matter is not so much regions, but nations, what do individual players do when their region goes under? how can we see a number of these players (of whatever maturity/standing) feeding into NS in other regions after intervention (rather than disappearing)?

"new nations thus creating an environment", what can we do about creating an environment that draws in players when/after/during their normal environment is disrupted by a raid?

The Black Hawks are condemned by certain people, is that a majority of WA members? perhaps/perhaps not. We will see.

[The Eurasias]

There is a line in there which will effectively stop people voting in favour of this Condemnation anyway:

CONCERNED that a vote in favor of this resolution will make World Assembly delegates and their regions targets of The Black Hawks, as has been reported following previous proposal attempts.

So if they do get condemned, the proposer is saying that TBH will be straight out raiding and taking their revenge on those who vote yes to condemn them. Not thought that out have they?

And yes, I support raiding.

I do not support a condemn of TBH, for the reasons quoted above. Personally, I support raiding 100%.

[Bears Armed]

There is a line in there which will effectively stop people voting in favour of this Condemnation anyway:




So if they do get condemned, the proposer is saying that TBH will be straight out raiding and taking their revenge on those who vote yes to condemn them. Not thought that out have they?

And yes, I support raiding.

I do not support a condemn of TBH, for the reasons quoted above. Personally, I support raiding 100%.

And who are you? That nation is only a day or so old... Puppet of a practicing raider, created specifically to post in this thread maybeso?

[Evil Wolf]

Well, this was about the worst written Condemn since the first Condemn Nazi Europe.

[Mahaj]

Well, this was about the worst written Condemn since the first Condemn Nazi Europe.

Condemn, yes.

[Flemingovia]

Well, this was about the worst written Condemn since the first Condemn Nazi Europe.

yet still it passed. I wonder what that says?

I suggest a steady stream of repeal proposals until people are worn down enough to remove this condemnation.

[Evil Wolf]

yet still it passed. I wonder what that says?

That people are dumb enough to be driven into a blind panic whenever they see the word "raider"?

[Sedgistan]

That people are dumb enough to be driven into a blind panic whenever they see the word "raider"?

There were a fair few raiders/raider sympathisers voting for this - I noticed even Mikeswill abandoned his usual policy of voting against Security Council proposals to vote for this one. Most defenders I came across were against it.

[Lordieth]

This resolution was written to substantiate fears. It lacks any real evidence or proof. Just baseless claims and fear mongering. Raiders have become bogeymen here. I'm no 'sympathiser' I should point out. The resolution is terribly written.

[Evil Wolf]

There were a fair few raiders/raider sympathisers voting for this - I noticed even Mikeswill abandoned his usual policy of voting against Security Council proposals to vote for this one. Most defenders I came across were against it.

There were also a number of defender groups that voted for it as well. Now its true that there was a group of Crashers that wanted to see TBH condemned as a badge of honor, but traditionally the Raider WA voting bloc has never been a very powerful one for...rather obvious reasons.

I'm personally in favor of Crashers getting Condemns and wearing them as a badge of honor, but only if the Condemn is written well, which this one wasn't. This was less a shot to TBH themselves and more a direct snipe against raiding in general. There was nothing mentioned in that Condemn that every single Crasher group in NS doesn't also do. If your going to Condemn TBH for such mundane raider actions, you might as well condemn every Crasher group in Nationstates.

[Cinistra]

From the condemnation:
"NOTING that such targeting is proven to have a cooling effect on free speech and the democratic process. " Any evidence of this?
This condemnation consists mainly of vaguely based beliefs. Should be repealed.

[Bears Armed]

There was nothing mentioned in that Condemn that every single Crasher group in NS doesn't also do. If your going to Condemn TBH for such mundane raider actions, you might as well condemn every Crasher group in Nationstates.

Would if I could...

[Evil Wolf]

That act would just further serve to devalue the already near worthless status of the Security Council Condemns as a whole, so I encourage you to proceed.

[Motuka]

This was less a shot to TBH themselves and more a direct snipe against raiding in general. There was nothing mentioned in that Condemn that every single Crasher group in NS doesn't also do. If your going to Condemn TBH for such mundane raider actions, you might as well condemn every Crasher group in Nationstates.

Huh... I thought the SC had already done that.

- Posted via sticky note from the Red Room