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[Draft 1]: Repeal GA744, Catalytic Converter Implementation

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Simone Republic
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[Draft 1]: Repeal GA744, Catalytic Converter Implementation

Postby Simone Republic » Thu Oct 10, 2024 2:45 am

Target

https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... l=1&id=744

Original debate: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=549866

Motivation

I opposed the original resolution and here's the repeal. My rationale was that this breaks the somewhat IC convention that technologies move ahead. Electric vehicles already account for sales of a majority of new vehicles in places I hang around most often (as of now anyway, I've moved cities a lot in recent years), and I don't expect to see catalytic converters on the roads soon.

The resolution was written without considering that the most expensive converters are now actually more expensive than the cheapest electric car, so the idea is rather pointless. (This varies by tax and subsidies, so the comparison is not apples to apples). But I consider the technology to have moved on (and if not, will move on in the next year or two), and so the idea of this resolution is rather daft.

  1. You have to be an extremely dry WA state for your catalytic converters to constantly catch fire, but it's possible depending on your RP. But it does happen in some US states. See for examples here:
    https://www.ksby.com/news/2018/06/16/ho ... a-wildfire
    https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/m ... tfire.html
  2. See this article on the stealing of converters: https://www.vox.com/2023/5/20/23728557/ ... protection
  3. Ferrari F430, with a mind-popping $7,540 for two converters, is being compared in this resolution to the cheapest Chinese electric cars (BYD Seagull or Chang'an Lumin, US$7,500). It's not apples to apples, but you get my point.

The World Assembly,

Commending the target resolution for its noble aims to improve the environment through the compulsory installation of catalytic converters on internal combustion engines using gasoline or diesel;

Noting that more and more land vehicles in WA member states are powered by electric motors, hydrogen, solar, and other rapidly advancing technologies, and that internal combustion engines are an outdated technology that appears to be set for an inexorable trend towards irrelevance;

Flummoxed that the resolution fails to mention some of the harmful effects of catalytic converters, including that:

  1. The extreme heat of the converters can cause wildfires, especially in very dry areas in some member states, making the compulsory installation of catalytic converters across all member states, and the lack of exemption for member states suffering from extreme weather, rather problematic;
  2. Some WA states produce converters using expensive minerals such palladium, platinum, rhodium, or other rare earth metals, the mining of which creates pollution on its own;
  3. Some WA states suffer from significant levels of theft of converters, as some converters are installed on exhaust pipes and can be easily removed by criminal elements, at great loss to the owners of the vehicles as well as fostering petty crime and feeding cash to criminal elements;
  4. Some converters are extremely expensive, and the most expensive ones can be pricier than buying a new small electric vehicle in some WA states, depending on tax, installation, and service costs;

Expresses the opinion that the resources of WA states are better off promoting the use of more efficient vehicles, such as inexpensive and advanced electric vehicles, battery swapping and fast charging technologies, or other advanced forms of transport (or, for that matter, public transport) rather than in retrofitting old vehicles with converters, or to police against theft of converters;

Noting that a repeal of the target resolution does not prohibit individual states that are still reliant on internal combustion engines from implementing local measures to promote their use, or for users of (say) antique cars to reduce their cars’ pollution through retrospectively installing converters;

Hereby repeals the target resolution, GA#744, Catalytic Converter Implementation.
Last edited by Simone Republic on Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:09 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:45 pm

Support.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Lydia Anderson, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715, GA#757
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Kay Pacha
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Postby Kay Pacha » Thu Oct 10, 2024 6:37 pm

Simone Republic wrote:Some WA states produce converters using expensive minerals such palladium, platinum, rhodium, or other rare earth metals, the mining of which creates pollution on its own;

Already taken care of.
Simone Republic wrote:Some WA states suffer from significant levels of theft of converters, as some converters are installed on exhaust pipes and can be easily removed by criminal elements, at great loss to the owners of the vehicles;

Catalytic converters are stolen for their precious metals. See above.

On top of this, it's on member states to manage their own criminals. Catalytic converters are removed using really noisy tools in residential areas where the neighbors can usually hear what's happening, and the people who buy them are often scrap yards or seedy car dealerships, both of which could be addressed with faster police response times and greater scrutiny on under the radar businesses. My buddy Skunky Tom used to steal these, he always had some wild stories about it. One time he almost took the one off my Prius before he called to check if it was mine when he recognized my five Patrick Bateman bumper stickers. Anyway, this guy had a pretty good supply chain set up. After he'd get his hands on one he'd go to a scrapyard and be like "hey, I've got some platinum to sell you" and the guy at the scrap yard would be like "did you steal this catalytic converter?" and Skunky Tom would be like "no sir, I don't even know if this is a catalytic converter" and the guy at the scrap yard would be like "you're telling me you legally acquired this suspiciously catalytic converter shaped piece of platinum with edges that are off kilter from the welding lines" and Skunky Tom would say "yes sir" and he'd get like a few hundred dollars from it because if you're an under the radar scrap yard owner, what are you gonna do, not turn like a thousand dollars from a suspiciously catalytic converter shaped piece of platinum? Crazy stuff. But that's a dying business. Even at the height of the catalytic converter trade, people preferred finding them on older cars, like my 2004 Prius, which were made with a higher quantity of precious metals in them, since manufacturers have been scaling back the amount for a while now. It's not the WA's fault a nation's police force is too incompetent to deal with my buddy Skunky Tom. Now that I think about it, I'll give him a call after I post this, check in and see if he's out of trouble.

Categorically against.
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The Ice States
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Ice States » Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:40 pm

"We broadly agree with the Kay Pachan Ambassador, and while we support repeal of the target in principle we do not find these arguments to be persuasive."

~Samuel Rothmann,
Senior WA Representative,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.
Last edited by The Ice States on Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Simone Republic
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Postby Simone Republic » Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:37 pm

The Ice States wrote:"We broadly agree with the Kay Pachan Ambassador, and while we support repeal of the target in principle we do not find these arguments to be persuasive."

~Samuel Rothmann,
Senior WA Representative,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.


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Suthanimark
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Postby Suthanimark » Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:24 pm

If a nation can't keep their citizens from stealing catalytic converters, then that's a personal problem. Plus, according to your own sources, these catalytic converter explosions only really happen when the catalytic converters are poorly maintained. Just seems like more reason to keep the regulation.

Additionally, I am wholeheartedly for the siphoning of rich people's money.
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Simone Republic
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Founded: Jul 09, 2019
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Simone Republic » Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:01 am

(IC)

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