by Sigma Dome » Mon May 04, 2009 5:20 am
by Omigodtheykilledkenny » Mon May 04, 2009 8:44 am
by Tessaglia » Mon May 04, 2009 3:19 pm
by Absolvability » Tue May 05, 2009 8:38 am
The World Assembly must continue to regulate for the greater good without diminishing the diversity found in the numerous nations which make up the honorable body.
by Omigodtheykilledkenny » Tue May 05, 2009 10:30 am
Evolution, for example, has been proven by the Rogue Nation's scientists to be a correct theory, though it is still a theory in that science is ever-changing. We certainly shouldn't make evolution the main focus of everybody's curriculum, but it should be included. If only to reinforce the freedom of religion that the CoCR gives us.
As far as religious education goes, well, isn't that what a church is for?
by Bears Armed » Tue May 05, 2009 11:13 am
The standard usage of the word "theory" by scientists is to designate "An idea that is solidly supported by proper evidence", i.e.one that is "proven" within the limits of our current knowledge, not just "an idea": To scientists, in the context of science, It's effectively interchangeable with 'Law'... For example, I've read textbooks that referred to "The Theory of Gravity" rather than "The Law of Gravity".Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:Evolution, for example, has been proven by the Rogue Nation's scientists to be a correct theory, though it is still a theory in that science is ever-changing. We certainly shouldn't make evolution the main focus of everybody's curriculum, but it should be included. If only to reinforce the freedom of religion that the CoCR gives us.
Evolution is not a "religion," but I am happy to see it has finally been "proven" correct by your mad scientists; it hasn't been actually proven virtually anywhere else; that's why it's called "theory" and not "fact."
by Absolvability » Tue May 05, 2009 12:05 pm
by Philimbesi » Tue May 05, 2009 12:15 pm
If they are public however, I think they should not exclude anything. Again, evolution was just an example.
by Absolvability » Tue May 05, 2009 12:46 pm
by Philimbesi » Tue May 05, 2009 1:20 pm
by Omigodtheykilledkenny » Tue May 05, 2009 2:16 pm
Bears Armed wrote:The standard usage of the word "theory" by scientists is to designate "An idea that is solidly supported by proper evidence", i.e.one that is "proven" within the limits of our current knowledge...
by Maerngau » Tue May 05, 2009 6:41 pm
Absolvability wrote:[quote=Philimbesi]And what about the nations of this body that are theocracies? Where the government and the church are one, what does the delegate from Absolvability suggest they are they do to?
To be honest, I don't know. I was brainstorming a few moments ago. Trying to supply a few vague suggestions in hopes that we might collaborate and come up with ideas. I think this is a worthy piece of legislation if we can provide answers for those very questions.
I said something along the lines of "is it possible for all schools inside of a Theocracy to be considered private?" I'd like an answer to that.
No title of respect is really needed, though I appreciate the effort. If you insist on doing so, you may refer to me as Magistrate. I am not the regional Delegate.
by Marx-Rawls » Tue May 05, 2009 11:03 pm
by Omigodtheykilledkenny » Wed May 06, 2009 6:46 am
Marx-Rawls wrote:The Republic of Marx-Rawls supports this proposal.
by Philimbesi » Wed May 06, 2009 7:13 am
Marx-Rawls wrote:The Republic of Marx-Rawls supports this proposal. With respect to the issue of the theocracies, the first point to note is that this does not violate the rules because it does not mandate the separation of church and state.
by Absolvability » Wed May 06, 2009 7:40 am
Philimbesi wrote:And those nations in this body who's government is the church... therefore where public schools are by law non secular.. this doesn't mandate a separation there? How so honored ambassador?
Maerngau wrote:what is the point of making an international law if we are going to, immediately, stipulate that it only applies to certain member states that, in effect, volunteer to have the proposal apply? This seems in effect to be a piece of legislation whose only purpose is to comment on how well certain states" Like" the policies of certain other states.
by Philimbesi » Wed May 06, 2009 8:00 am
Absolvability wrote:Actually, I think the Representative from Marx-Rawls makes an interesting point. That a separation of church and school does not constitute a separation of church and state.
When it gets right down to it, we all know that we can't ban theocracies. And who would want to? Not me. However, when one takes into consideration resolutions like the CoCR that enforce anti-discrimination laws in regard to religion, doesn't it seem like even a Theocracy should already be promoting knowledge of other religions? Or at least not persecuting. Forcing everybody into the same church is just about the same, if you ask me. And it only gets worse when you begin to incorporate it into the school systems. The point is this-- FREEDOM of religion.
But I'm not trying to suggest that we bend the rules in order to 'do what's right.' I'm suggesting that, for the most part, leeway has already been made for the enactment of secular schools. It seems, in fact, the logical next step. I've already said that we might consider all schools within a Theocracy to be private. Consider-- even if the VAST majority of the public funds them, it can still be considered private since, in a Theocracy, funding comes from a church rather than a government. So to speak. Or, if it can't be considered private, perhaps the schools in a Theocracy could be considered churches.
by Absolvability » Wed May 06, 2009 8:33 am
Philimbesi wrote:Oh for the love of... Honored Ambassador... In a theocracy... the church IS the government!! It is by definition a government "ruled by or subject to religious authority. It's a church-state. Five minutes with a dictionary would allow your augments much more weight.
by Philimbesi » Wed May 06, 2009 8:49 am
I understand what the words mean. Trust me, when I'm not sure, I look it up. Lots of resolutions include their own definition of a word, however, to help define the perameters of effect. I'm discussing definitions that could be used to benefit our intentions here while protecting the rights of Theocracies.
in a Theocracy, funding comes from a church rather than a government.
I could point you to it, sure, but I'd be pointing between lines. Which is why I said that this will be the 'next logical step.' And I speak of tacit/implicit promotion. Sure, we can't discriminate. But where's our follow-through? Keep in mind, Ambassador, that while 'encourages' appears to be a passive word, even it requires compliance. (game coding)
by Absolvability » Wed May 06, 2009 9:23 am
by Philimbesi » Wed May 06, 2009 10:03 am
by Bears Armed » Wed May 06, 2009 10:19 am
Absolvability wrote:However, when one takes into consideration resolutions like the CoCR that enforce anti-discrimination laws in regard to religion, doesn't it seem like even a Theocracy should already be promoting knowledge of other religions? Or at least not persecuting. Forcing everybody into the same church is just about the same, if you ask me. And it only gets worse when you begin to incorporate it into the school systems. The point is this-- FREEDOM of religion.
Absolvability wrote:Philimbesi wrote:Can you point me to the phrase Freedom of Religion in the CoCR? The CoCR protects against discrimination on religious basis. In other words a company in church-state can't refuse to hire you on the basis of the fact you don't subscribe to the churches ideology. It says nothing about an entire nation having to promote other religions. Clause 1d encouraged diversity education yes... HOWEVER 1) it's simply that encouraged, 2) it mentions nothing of requiring that education to be done publicly funded schools.
I could point you to it, sure, but I'd be pointing between lines.
"Encourages" still only asks nations to do something, it doesn't actually require that they do so: [OOC] That's why proposals whose operational clauses only "Encourage" or "'Urge" normally belong at the 'Mild' level, because they don't have significant effects on the nation's stats.[/OOC]Absolvability wrote:Bear it in mind Ambassador, that while 'encourages' appears to be a passive word, even it requires compliance.(game coding)
by Absolvability » Wed May 06, 2009 10:43 am
Bears Armed wrote:"between the lines" doesn't count: If the resolution doesn't explicitly say so then member nations are not required to do this.
Bears Armed wrote:... and in Theocracies (and probably in other nations with 'established' churches, too), isn''t it likely that they'd decide that "teaching people the right beliefs" is an acceptable reason for such an exception?
Bears Armed wrote:"Encourages" still only asks nations to do something, it doesn't actually require that they do so
by Urgench » Wed May 06, 2009 10:48 am
Bears Armed wrote:
The 'CoCR' allows exceptions "for compelling practical purposes", and although it includes one potential example of such a purpose this -- especially as the 'CoCR' does not say that it represents the upper limit of what's allowable -- is not enough to define that term's scope: As the 'CoCR' does not mention any right of appeal to any WA tribunals (or other 'outside' bodies), either, it is consequently up to each member nation's law-courts to decide whether any exceptions claimed by their governments are compatible with compliance... and in Theocracies (and probably in other nations with 'established' churches, too), isn''t it likely that they'd decide that "teaching people the right beliefs" is an acceptable reason for such an exception?
by Maerngau » Sat May 09, 2009 6:17 am
Absolvability wrote:Maerngau wrote:what is the point of making an international law if we are going to, immediately, stipulate that it only applies to certain member states that, in effect, volunteer to have the proposal apply? This seems in effect to be a piece of legislation whose only purpose is to comment on how well certain states" Like" the policies of certain other states.
We can't stipulate that any resolutions only apply to certain member states. That is illegal. It is also illegal to 'ban' Theocracies, much like it is illegal to ban capitalism or socialism. What we CAN do, if we're clever enough, is confine the resolution to a certain type of school... that, intentionally, Theocracies do not have.
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