Evolution

[Hetairos]

Do you believe that evolution happens? If not, is it for any reason other than your religion?

I want to clarify something:
That evolution happens is NOT a theory, and anyone who tells you it is doesn't understand it. It is an OBSERVATION. We can SEE evolution happening in the laboratory;when we change the habitat of fruit flies, we can see changes happening in their genome over many generations, which over time would lead to major changes in their appearance. There are numerous other pieces of evidence for evolution, which I could bring up.The theory of evolution is what we come up with to try to explain why these changes occur, and how species will adapt to their habitats if changed.

If you don't believe in evolution for a reason other than your religion, please reply, because I would be really interested to see why.

[Farnhamia Redux]

You really shouldn't use the word "believe" in discussing evolution. There's no belief involved. Evolution is, as you say, the explanation of what we observe in the natural world as to how life changes and develops.

[Barfobulville]

Actually, evolution IS a theory. The scientific definition of 'theory' is an observation that is highly supported by data consistently for a long time. Theories can sometimes hold more water than 'facts'. So, technically, evolution being a theory (well proven) makes it less of a 'theory' (unproven).

Multiple, opposite meanings, how fun.

[Dragontide]

The earth is 8-12 billion years old. Just because it's not 6000 years old does not mean there is no God.

[Free Soviets]

You really shouldn't use the word "believe" in discussing evolution. There's no belief involved. Evolution is, as you say, the explanation of what we observe in the natural world as to how life changes and develops.

sure there is. if you think something about something, you have a belief. belief is not and has never been restricted to believing that god exists or whatever.

[The Alma Mater]

That evolution happens is NOT a theory, and anyone who tells you it is doesn't understand it. It is an OBSERVATION. We can SEE evolution happening in the laboratory

Strictly speaking, the mere fact that most people are NOT carbon copies of their parents is also evolution. Which of course is why so many people who deny evolution exists live in regions with lots and lots of inbreeding.

The "theory of evolution through natural selection" examines a possible consequence of the fact of evolution.

[Free Soviets]

The earth is 8-12 billion years old. Just because it's not 6000 years old does not mean there is no God.

4.54

and it does mean that biblical literalist god doesn't exist. it leaves the door open to other possible gods, of course, but it most certainly rules out some.

[Australian Asia]

Uhm, that's no matter of belief, I think so. Evolution for me is like rain... It has always been, and I am so sure about it, that there is no doubt.

[Free Soviets]

Uhm, that's no matter of belief, I think so. Evolution for me is like rain... It has always been, and I am so sure about it, that there is no doubt.

are you saying that if i say to you "it's raining outside right now" after looking out the window and you say "i don't believe you", neither of us believes it is raining outside?

[Dragontide]

and it does mean that biblical literalist god doesn't exist.

How so? It only points out mistakes in the Bible. Misinterpretations. How is God suppose to explain the entire nature of the universe to someone like Abraham or Moses?

it leaves the door open to other possible gods, of course, but it most certainly rules out some.

Why would there be more than one?

[Farnhamia Redux]

You really shouldn't use the word "believe" in discussing evolution. There's no belief involved. Evolution is, as you say, the explanation of what we observe in the natural world as to how life changes and develops.

sure there is. if you think something about something, you have a belief. belief is not and has never been restricted to believing that god exists or whatever.

Well ... I suppose it's just semantics but the reason I don't like using "belief" in talking about evolution is that creationists like to twist statements about evolution on that word, claiming that evolution is as much a non-rational position as any religion, or that it is a religion. Why allow them even that little opportunity?

I prefer to say that I accept the scientific explanation of evolution.

[Hetairos]

Actually, evolution IS a theory. The scientific definition of 'theory' is an observation that is highly supported by data consistently for a long time. Theories can sometimes hold more water than 'facts'. So, technically, evolution being a theory (well proven) makes it less of a 'theory' (unproven).

Multiple, opposite meanings, how fun.

"A scientific theory is a well supported body of interconnected statements that explains observations and can be used to make testable predictions."

Yor definition is a 'fact';simply the observation, i.e, that changes occur in the genomes and appearances of plants and animals.
The thory to evolution explains why these changes occur--changes in habitat etc.

[Farnhamia Redux]

and it does mean that biblical literalist god doesn't exist.

How so? It only points out mistakes in the Bible. Misinterpretations. How is God suppose to explain the entire nature of the universe to someone like Abraham or Moses?

it leaves the door open to other possible gods, of course, but it most certainly rules out some.

Why would there be more than one?

Why would there be only one?

[The Alma Mater]

it leaves the door open to other possible gods, of course, but it most certainly rules out some.

Why would there be more than one?

People believe there are. 70% of the world after all is not Christian And within Christianity itself there exist many different interpretations. Some of those interpretations are probably wrong.

[Farnhamia Redux]

it leaves the door open to other possible gods, of course, but it most certainly rules out some.

Why would there be more than one?

People believe there are. 70% of the world after all is not Christian

Oh, I know. Just wanted to see Dragontide's take on that question.

[Helios Surrexit]

and it does mean that biblical literalist god doesn't exist.

How so? It only points out mistakes in the Bible. Misinterpretations. How is God suppose to explain the entire nature of the universe to someone like Abraham or Moses?

God is supposed to be all-powerful and *not a liar*.

If God is unable to explain evolution/abiogenesis more accurately than he supposedly does in Genesis, God is not all-powerful.

If God told Moses that the world was created in seven days, in the specific order described in Genesis, then God was *lying to Moses*.

[The Alma Mater]

If God told Moses that the world was created in seven days, in the specific order described in Genesis, then God was *lying to Moses*.

Or God planted false evidence to suggest it took much longer and happened in a different order.
Either way, He would be a liar.

[Ravea]

If God told Moses that the world was created in seven days, in the specific order described in Genesis, then God was *lying to Moses*.

Or God planted false evidence to suggest it took much longer and happened in a different order.
Either way, He would be a liar.

Or maybe God is just a dick.

Or insane.

I've always considered those options highly probable.

[Hetairos]

That evolution happens is NOT a theory, and anyone who tells you it is doesn't understand it. It is an OBSERVATION. We can SEE evolution happening in the laboratory

Strictly speaking, the mere fact that most people are NOT carbon copies of their parents is also evolution. Which of course is why so many people who deny evolution exists live in regions with lots and lots of inbreeding.

The "theory of evolution through natural selection" examines a possible consequence of the fact of evolution.

But in organisms which reproduce asexually, the offspring are carbon copies of the parent, but these species can still evolve.

[Barfobulville]

If God is unable to explain evolution/abiogenesis more accurately than he supposedly does in Genesis, God is not all-powerful.

To be fair, evolution and abiogenesis are two completely different issues.

[The Alma Mater]

But in organisms which reproduce asexually, the offspring are carbon copies of the parent, but these species can still evolve.

If the offspring would always be an exact carbon copy of the parent, there would no evolution.

[Dyakovo]

The earth is 8-12 billion years old. Just because it's not 6000 years old does not mean there is no God.

Okay, but what does that have to do with the current discussion?

[Dyakovo]

You really shouldn't use the word "believe" in discussing evolution. There's no belief involved. Evolution is, as you say, the explanation of what we observe in the natural world as to how life changes and develops.

sure there is. if you think something about something, you have a belief. belief is not and has never been restricted to believing that god exists or whatever.

Well ... I suppose it's just semantics but the reason I don't like using "belief" in talking about evolution is that creationists like to twist statements about evolution on that word, claiming that evolution is as much a non-rational position as any religion, or that it is a religion. Why allow them even that little opportunity?

I prefer to say that I accept the scientific explanation of evolution.

That does present it much better...

[Angleter]

If God told Moses that the world was created in seven days, in the specific order described in Genesis, then God was *lying to Moses*.

Or God planted false evidence to suggest it took much longer and happened in a different order.
Either way, He would be a liar.

By using the 'six days' story God was not 'lying', but he was using a metaphor for how Man came into existence. After all, in the days of Moses, Abraham, etc. it would have been virtually impossible to comprehend the theory of evolution, but now we seem to have figured it out for ourselves: God's idea perhaps?

All evolution would show if it is indeed fact is that God either is a libertarian, or that he just doesn't have that much of an interest in biology. I personally think that God just let nature take its course, but sometimes doing something that would prompt a change (such as the meteor that caused the dinosaurs to be wiped out).

[Dragontide]

and it does mean that biblical literalist god doesn't exist.

How so? It only points out mistakes in the Bible. Misinterpretations. How is God suppose to explain the entire nature of the universe to someone like Abraham or Moses?

God is supposed to be all-powerful and *not a liar*.

If God is unable to explain evolution/abiogenesis more accurately than he supposedly does in Genesis, God is not all-powerful.

If God told Moses that the world was created in seven days, in the specific order described in Genesis, then God was *lying to Moses*.

That's the mistake that too many people make. They think God is perfect but he's not. (we are the proof)

I think when God was talking to Moses, he would rather have not had Moses reply "I have no freekin idea what your talking about...What's a nebula again? Can tachyons make a camel go faster?..." God said what he said at the time to accomplish the tasks he wanted done.