US Balkanisation - Is it time?

[Primitive Communism]

A formal and permanent end to the American Union would be an inherent good for a great deal of reasons, though I'm not sure balkanization would be the ideal route to go down when pursuing such a noble goal.

[Deblar]

Short answer: hell no

Long answer: Absolutely goddamn not. The United States would be far better off, well, united, and for a multitude of reasons. First off, there’s plenty of states that are barely getting along even with federal aid (*cough* *cough* Mississippi *cough* *cough* West Virginia *cough*); what would would happen when that suddenly disappeared? Then there’s the whole thing conservative states are doing - you know, “owning the libs” by doing everything in their power to make life worse for just about anyone who isn’t a Republican? The only thing stopping them from taking that to its logical conclusion is federal law, and even then it lets them get away with a lot. Lose federal law and it’ll be a field day for them - and, not to mention, hell for everyone else. If you just happen to be LGBT+, I hope you enjoyed having the right to be yourself cuz that would be one of the first things that fly out the window. And don’t even get me started on how that completely fuck up the global order until it’s an unrecognizable mess.

In conclusion…no. Just no.

[Page]

If the US broke apart along ideological lines, let's call the two successor countries MAGAland and A-meh-rica (cause an America utterly devoid of the Republican Party would still only be "meh" at best), you'd soon have MAGAland building a Berlin Wall to keep their people in. Particularly women. So many women would be fleeing MAGAland for A-meh-rica for reproductive freedom that MAGAland would end up with an unprecedented gender gap. And what comes of that? A million angry incels who start causing all kinds of chaos.

[Floofybit]

So then what do you expect happen?

falling

And how do you expect that not to happen

[Kernen]

United we fall, divided we fall

So then what do you expect happen?

Fun on a bun.

[Bienenhalde]

I understand US balkanization would have real drawbacks, but how is the US supposed to stay together without a unifying identity or ideology to justify its own existence?

[North Cromch]

Hell no.

[Juansonia]

I understand US balkanization would have real drawbacks, but how is the US supposed to stay together without a unifying identity or ideology to justify its own existence?

It's existence wasn't justified for the past 160 years, but that didn't stop us.

[Bienenhalde]

I understand US balkanization would have real drawbacks, but how is the US supposed to stay together without a unifying identity or ideology to justify its own existence?

It's existence wasn't justified for the past 160 years, but that didn't stop us.

It existed in the past because people were patriotic and believed that it deserved to exist. Now that patriotism is at an all time low, I don't see how people will be motivated to keep the US together.

[Ryemarch]

[Y]ou'd soon have MAGAland building a Berlin Wall to keep their people in.

This right here. Even if the US balkanizing wasn't a terrible idea to begin with (and it is), you'd be condemning everyone unwilling to worship Trump, DeSantis, Cruz, et al. to being trapped in a dystopia. MAGAland would never willingly let go of the people it wants to oppress, because it's no fun being a bully without victims to trample.

Now that patriotism is at an all time low, I don't see how people will be motivated to keep the US together.

Patriotism is low because neither side likes the US as it is. It's the one thing they can agree on. The problem is that the sides can't agree at all on what it should be.

(Edited to reply to Bienhalde as well, rather than making a second post.)

[Floofybit]

It's existence wasn't justified for the past 160 years, but that didn't stop us.

It existed in the past because people were patriotic and believed that it deserved to exist. Now that patriotism is at an all time low, I don't see how people will be motivated to keep the US together.

For survival. If the U.S. breaks into smaller countries, it's easy prey for vengeful countries

[Bienenhalde]

Now that patriotism is at an all time low, I don't see how people will be motivated to keep the US together.

Patriotism is low because neither side likes the US as it is. It's the one thing they can agree on. The problem is that the sides can't agree at all on what it should be.
(Edited to reply to Bienhalde as well, rather than making a second post.)

That is why people would want to secede from the US. To escape from what they view as being an undesirable status quo.

[Dixie]

Balkanisation sounds like a bad idea.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the separatist movements in the modern US have links to the Kremlin.

[Sovereign American States]

Balkanisation sounds like a bad idea.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the separatist movements in the modern US have links to the Kremlin.

Why are you a neo-confederate but are against separatism

[Dixie]

Balkanisation sounds like a bad idea.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the separatist movements in the modern US have links to the Kremlin.

Why are you a neo-confederate but are against separatism

Why be a patsy for the Kremlin? Who would separatism serve in the modern age?

[Juansonia]

Why are you a neo-confederate but are against separatism

Why be a patsy for the Kremlin? Who would separatism serve in the modern age?

Not having to pay federal taxes, for one.

[Dixie]

Why be a patsy for the Kremlin? Who would separatism serve in the modern age?

Not having to pay federal taxes, for one.

You didn't answer who it would serve. People will still end up paying taxes to whatever new government asserts itself.

[Juansonia]

Not having to pay federal taxes, for one.

You didn't answer who it would serve. People will still end up paying taxes to whatever new government asserts itself.

It serves those whose interests differ from those of the United States federal government.

If you aren't part of the US, you won't get drafted into the Imperial Army.

If the fascist-like elements of the GOP take power at the federal level, insurrection and secession will become moral duties.

Cascadia becoming a reality will finally make Oregonians shut up for long enough to enjoy the moment.

Ohio seceding is a net positive for the rest of the US.

[Dixie]

You didn't answer who it would serve. People will still end up paying taxes to whatever new government asserts itself.

It serves those whose interests differ from those of the United States federal government.

So fascists and religious extremists, awesome.

Count me and I'm guessing most rational people out.

[Crugen Islands]

If it interests anyone, there's a great book on this topic: Hate Inc. It's about the media polarizing the USA until it quite literally is tearing itself apart.

It's a good book.

[Juansonia]

It serves those whose interests differ from those of the United States federal government.

So fascists and religious extremists, awesome.

"Everyone that doesn't blindly worship the United States Government is a fascist" lol.

Have you ever heard of the proletariat, racial/relgiious/sexual/gender minorities, or people who don't want their sons to die for a politicain's bottom line?

I only tolerate NATO's organisational existence because Putin's administration is the greater evil.

[Ethel mermania]

So then what do you expect happen?

falling

That would have been my guess

[Dixie]

So fascists and religious extremists, awesome.

"Everyone that doesn't blindly worship the United States Government is a fascist" lol.

Or a fascist-enabler, like people who choose to help them undermine the stability of national law and protections of racial/gender/religious groups to allow separatists that in the United States tend towards conservatism/white nationalism/Christian nationalism to take power and/or erase Federal business regulations to allow corporations greater leeway over each state.

It's funny that I have to be the one to tell you this. Local and state level violence against people of color and LGBTQ+ people is on the rise and your solution would be to abolish the Federal protections that help them, as well as the Federal subsidies that millions rely on.

LOL you got me good.

I only tolerate NATO's organisational existence because Putin's administration is the greater evil.

How benevolent of you.

[Juansonia]

"Everyone that doesn't blindly worship the United States Government is a fascist" lol.

Or a fascist-enabler, like people who choose to help them undermine the stability of national law and protections of racial/gender/religious groups to allow separatists that in the United States tend towards conservatism/white nationalism/Christian nationalism to take power and/or erase Federal business regulations to allow corporations greater leeway over each state.

Apparently, Anarcho-Syndicalists are fascist-enablers.

I only tolerate NATO's organisational existence because Putin's administration is the greater evil.

How benevolent of you.

My point wasn't to act like "I'm kind enough to tolerate this thing that aligns with my interests", it was to say "at least I have the brains to know that terrorism and imperialism isn't as bad as outright genocide".

[Dixie]

Apparently, Anarcho-Syndicalists are fascist-enablers.

In this context and your LARP aside, yes.

My point wasn't to act like "I'm kind enough to tolerate this thing that aligns with my interests", it was to say "at least I have the brains to know that terrorism and imperialism isn't as bad as outright genocide".

Good on you, it's a relief.