[PASSED] Commend MadJack

[Goobergunchia]

I believe it is past time to recognize one of the most unique and colorful characters in our midst, someone whose experience in this game spans the time gone by and our modern era, and was a key player in all of it. This person also happens to be one of the greatest, and only, examples of someone who made the ultimate comeback in this game: literally starting again from nothing and re-establishing themselves in NSGP. I'm talking, of course, about MadJack. I hope you will agree this is a worthy addition to our list of commended nations, and I hope I was able to do the nominee, and his particular circumstances, justice in the proposal I have laid out below.

As always, I appreciate your feedback and suggestions to further improve the draft. It is coming in at 4,936 characters by my count, so I have some room for adjustments, but not too much. I'm fairly confident in how it is laid out, but I will reluctantly sacrifice some of my written darlings if I must. Please, review and let me know what you think.

EDIT: In response to moderation's ruling, I have reworded the RP clause to remove references to a "mortal, physical form."

EDIT: In response to feedback about belittling RP, I have amended the first bit about "humble beginnings."

The Security Council,

Acknowledging at long last one of the most prominent and outspoken nations, MadJack, so loud and boisterous they briefly shouted themselves out of existence;

Celebrating MadJack’s swift emergence in Judea and its successor Ellorea, and also the community originally residing in Azhukali, where they sharpened their skills as bards and storytellers, explored a variety of names and identities and became a vocal champion of culture and free expression for all nations, particularly in a time of great strife and hostility to creative expression;

Admiring their commitment to respecting and protecting all communities, especially from invading hordes, strengthened by a stay in the former iteration of Eastern Islands of Dharma, as well as stalwart and loyal service in the old United Defenders League; and their emphasis on the deeds, good or bad, of individuals rather than their ideology, a philosophy and set of values unlike the dominant partisans of the day, and which would define their political work on the world stage;

Recalling MadJack’s singular term as pharaoh of Osiris, during which they served as a compromise leader bridging the divide present in the region at that time, exemplified by:

• Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,
• Championing sinker region independence from the older powers seeking to subjugate and subsume them into their respective spheres of influence,
• Granting amnesty to Dalimbar and Neo Kervoskia, despite their infamy for undermining democratic governments and responsibility for a brief coup of MadJack’s government, thereby cooling tensions between the dominant factions of the day and giving democracy a chance in an environment inhospitable to it;

Impressed by MadJack’s years of manifesting in the imagination of countless residents of The North Pacific prior to rejoining reality, enhancing their minds and artistry to greater heights; and their remote architecture of a robust, vibrant creative community simultaneously a part of and apart from the wider North Pacific community, which greatly enhanced the region’s culture and set a standard for managing disparate and radically different sub-communities within a larger one that other similarly-composed regions could follow;

Still in awe at MadJack’s nearly matchless return to our plane of existence, surely a welcome surprise following their prominent ouroboros rhetoric, as practically every other nation with a similar history would have remained permanently exiled from this mortal plane;

Asserting that by surviving repeated trials, literal and figurative, in the multiverse and especially in one of its most litigious regions, MadJack is the avatar of second chances, best illustrated by their exemplary service as Minister of Culture and later Foreign Affairs, as well as their electoral victories and subsequent tenure as Speaker, Justice, and most significantly Delegate in The North Pacific; all successes achieved in spite of their history of self-immolation and winning repeated Court cases on technical grounds, which created doubts about their suitability to lead;

Underlining MadJack’s tenure as Delegate of The North Pacific, most notable for:

• Greatly expanding Regional Assembly access through updating the citizenship process and fostering unprecedented transparency in government by modernizing the process of disclosing private government records,
• Adding diplomatic sanctions to the Regional Assembly’s foreign affairs toolbox to go along with extreme military force exemptions, and setting the stage for the greater use of sanctions to follow,
• Declaring a new outlook on alignment for The North Pacific, greatly reducing its participation in raiding activity and contributing to a significant shift in favor of defender-aligned forces in the world, an outlook that other regions in its sphere would soon adopt,
• Utilizing The North Pacific’s significant influence in this assembly to inspire others to begin reconsidering the Security Council’s official opinion on formerly notorious nations in light of their more recent misdeeds;

Believing it suits an exemplar of comebacks to find success in The Rejected Realms, including as its Cultural officer providing a renaissance of festivity and spirit where it had been lacking; and as its Foreign Affairs officer, helping to navigate the new politics they had helped bring about before their work in The Rejected Realms;

Convinced that dreamers who wish to fight for voices often overlooked or undervalued, and amplify the most unique and open minds, will find few finer examples of a nation like themselves;

Hereby commends MadJack.

[Chipoli]

Full support. This is well-written, and the nominee is commendable.

[Tinhampton]

This is extremely good, but with the caveat that I'm not sure MadJack was fully responsible for TNP's sea-change in attitudes to raiders.

[Hulldom]

This is extremely good, but with the caveat that I'm not sure MadJack was fully responsible for TNP's sea-change in attitudes to raiders.

Was in Cabinet at the time. If he wasn't solely responsible for it, he was pretty damn near close to it.

[The Orwell Society]

A fine commendation written for a very deserving nominee. Full support.

[Quebecshire]

Overall support, I think MadJack's resume stacks up fairly well and he's reasonably earned a commendation.

As a general suggestion - to cut down on character count, consider removing non-essential bbcode. Various authors have different tastes, but when you have a nominee that is pushing the character limit, you can cut out most bbcode since it's ultimately not critical to the proposal beyond marginal aesthetic.

Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,

This does not strike me as commendable, especially since (from what I understand), a lot of the compromises and chaos in the KRO were ultimately unsuccessful at preventing its collapse. Had they prevented its collapse I would probably see it differently, but as it stands I would replace this (or provide more detail as to what that accomplished, what those militaries did, the role MadJack played in it, etc).

Impressed by MadJack’s years of manifesting in the imagination of countless residents of The North Pacific prior to resuming a mortal, physical form, enhancing their minds and artistry to greater heights; and their remote architecture of a robust, vibrant creative community simultaneously a part of and apart from the wider North Pacific community, which greatly enhanced the region’s culture and set a standard for managing disparate and radically different sub-communities within a larger one that other similarly-composed regions could follow;

I'm not entirely sure what this refers to, but I'd suggest merging it with the below clause. Beyond that, it might be better to focus on his post-return roleplay contributions which are more measurable, easily defined, etc. Though my knowledge of the nominee is limited, I'm guessing there's plenty of that to work with.

Asserting that by surviving repeated trials, literal and figurative, in the multiverse and especially in one of its most litigious regions, MadJack is the avatar of second chances, best illustrated by their exemplary service as Minister of Culture and later Foreign Affairs, as well as their electoral victories and subsequent tenure as Speaker, Justice, and most significantly Delegate in The North Pacific; all successes achieved in spite of their history of self-immolation and winning repeated Court cases on technical grounds, which created doubts about their suitability to lead;

I quite like this clause, especially the "avatar of second chances" line - it helps the narrative a lot because MadJack is probably the main (if only?) returning DoS that has worked out this well/redeemed themselves so much.

Otherwise, best of luck!

[Pallaith]

This is extremely good, but with the caveat that I'm not sure MadJack was fully responsible for TNP's sea-change in attitudes to raiders.

As someone who was also in government at the time, I can confirm MadJack wished to pursue this policy. I happen to believe that no other delegate in TNP would have actually done this the way things were at the time.

Overall support, I think MadJack's resume stacks up fairly well and he's reasonably earned a commendation.

As a general suggestion - to cut down on character count, consider removing non-essential bbcode. Various authors have different tastes, but when you have a nominee that is pushing the character limit, you can cut out most bbcode since it's ultimately not critical to the proposal beyond marginal aesthetic.

Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,

This does not strike me as commendable, especially since (from what I understand), a lot of the compromises and chaos in the KRO were ultimately unsuccessful at preventing its collapse. Had they prevented its collapse I would probably see it differently, but as it stands I would replace this (or provide more detail as to what that accomplished, what those militaries did, the role MadJack played in it, etc).

Impressed by MadJack’s years of manifesting in the imagination of countless residents of The North Pacific prior to resuming a mortal, physical form, enhancing their minds and artistry to greater heights; and their remote architecture of a robust, vibrant creative community simultaneously a part of and apart from the wider North Pacific community, which greatly enhanced the region’s culture and set a standard for managing disparate and radically different sub-communities within a larger one that other similarly-composed regions could follow;

I'm not entirely sure what this refers to, but I'd suggest merging it with the below clause. Beyond that, it might be better to focus on his post-return roleplay contributions which are more measurable, easily defined, etc. Though my knowledge of the nominee is limited, I'm guessing there's plenty of that to work with.

Asserting that by surviving repeated trials, literal and figurative, in the multiverse and especially in one of its most litigious regions, MadJack is the avatar of second chances, best illustrated by their exemplary service as Minister of Culture and later Foreign Affairs, as well as their electoral victories and subsequent tenure as Speaker, Justice, and most significantly Delegate in The North Pacific; all successes achieved in spite of their history of self-immolation and winning repeated Court cases on technical grounds, which created doubts about their suitability to lead;

I quite like this clause, especially the "avatar of second chances" line - it helps the narrative a lot because MadJack is probably the main (if only?) returning DoS that has worked out this well/redeemed themselves so much.

Otherwise, best of luck!

I am open to further BBcode removal if the space ends up being needed, but I tend to prefer the amount used here.

From the exploration I did with his contemporaries in Osiris, everything cited in this resolution was agreed to have delayed the inevitable. Osiris had a brief period of democracy, which would not have been possible if the opposing sides hadn't been placated and balanced. It certainly would have been incredibly impressive for him to have successfully avoided what came next, but I do not believe it is right to completely overlook his efforts there at all. As a TNPer, any effort to promote democracy and keep it alive, even if short-lived, is worth noting. Considering this is Osiris we're talking about, and considering he did walk a tightrope while he was in charge there and the effort wasn't just an immediate failure, deserves some mention in my book. The split military helped avoid falling on one side of the R/D divide over the pother and illustrated his approach to find a third way. I didn't have any military-expert insight at my fingertips to dissect this point further, though I am certainly not against the additional information.

You have highlighted the clause recognizing MadJack's work building TNP's RP community, which happened during his...sabbatical...from NS proper. It was a separate community that was still part of the larger TNP community, following RP's separation from the government's Culture ministry. It was a wildly successful experiment and a model for other communities that have a natural separation between their RPers and their gameplayers, and continues to be how it is managed today even without him being the actual guy in charge. I could go into specifics but I tried that in an earlier version of the draft before this one on the forum, and I found it was to many characters spent on dry exposition that didn't cover the same ground as this clause, which explains the value of this effort in much fewer words. It's also not really related to the following clause, which is strictly about his return to the game. And once he came back to the game, his role as a leader in the RP community was less of a focus - I think the prior period is where this ought to stay focused, though I appreciate your instinct as far as finding more concrete details. I just disagree on the value of them in this particular sense., especially because adding them is going to require cuts in other places which I feel need to stay.

Thanks for recognizing the second chances clause - I do think we have a unique opportunity with the DoS thing that no other commendations have, and I wanted to make it a crucial part of this draft. I'm glad that came through.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

definite support on this. having worked across the table from the nominee in various official capacities during his delegacy, he had a noticeably positive impact on TNP’s relationship with defenders. that’s the substance I can comment on directly, otherwise it looks like a well-written draft but I can’t really give detailed feedback atm because I’m writing comments in the Sc to distract from annoying brain keeping me from sleep.

[Lile Ulie Islands]

-post deleted-

[Repreteop]

Against.

Don't need to write a lot of reasons, but if you want one, just telegram me, you won't think any different of him because you probably have made up your mind though if you do.

[Free Algerstonia]

we're commending someone that has a puppet called the NOTORIOUS mad jack? why are we commending someone notorious?

[Lile Ulie Islands]

Against.

Don't need to write a lot of reasons, but if you want one, just telegram me, you won't think any different of him because you probably have made up your mind though if you do.

Usually it is standard to post your feedback here (if any) rather than through the telegram feature. Feedback does not only have to be valued and looked upon by the author(s).

[Pallaith]

Against.

Don't need to write a lot of reasons, but if you want one, just telegram me, you won't think any different of him because you probably have made up your mind though if you do.

Usually it is standard to post your feedback here (if any) rather than through the telegram feature. Feedback does not only have to be valued and looked upon by the author(s).

Their feedback is a petty grudge stemming from getting in trouble and banned from TNP for bigoted behavior, and MadJack is their scapegoat I guess. I assure you that nothing they share with you will be valuable or constructive.

[Repreteop]

Usually it is standard to post your feedback here (if any) rather than through the telegram feature. Feedback does not only have to be valued and looked upon by the author(s).

Their feedback is a petty grudge stemming from getting in trouble and banned from TNP for bigoted behavior, and MadJack is their scapegoat I guess. I assure you that nothing they share with you will be valuable or constructive.

I don't expect less from you.

No, I don't give two flying fucks about getting banned there, its honestly dissappointing you guys couldn't manage to do it sooner nor TNP is so goddamn uninteresting to me its unbelievable.

Again, I'm using the telegram feature to see whos trying to try. I said anyone and anybody can (unless somehow you literally are bullshitting me)

[WayNeacTia]

Against.

Don't need to write a lot of reasons, but if you want one, just telegram me, you won't think any different of him because you probably have made up your mind though if you do.

Usually it is standard to post your feedback here (if any) rather than through the telegram feature. Feedback does not only have to be valued and looked upon by the author(s).

My guess is, it is probably a no-no to mention here what said reasons are. I considered it myself, but have decided that if the mods are willing to forget the past, why bring it into a commendation.

[Fort Concord]

You have highlighted the clause recognizing MadJack's work building TNP's RP community, which happened during his...sabbatical...from NS proper. It was a separate community that was still part of the larger TNP community, following RP's separation from the government's Culture ministry. It was a wildly successful experiment and a model for other communities that have a natural separation between their RPers and their gameplayers, and continues to be how it is managed today even without him being the actual guy in charge. I could go into specifics but I tried that in an earlier version of the draft before this one on the forum, and I found it was to many characters spent on dry exposition that didn't cover the same ground as this clause, which explains the value of this effort in much fewer words. It's also not really related to the following clause, which is strictly about his return to the game. And once he came back to the game, his role as a leader in the RP community was less of a focus - I think the prior period is where this ought to stay focused, though I appreciate your instinct as far as finding more concrete details. I just disagree on the value of them in this particular sense., especially because adding them is going to require cuts in other places which I feel need to stay.

It may be worth a legality check on including things directly from his time away, but regardless I am happy to see some more insight and work regarding TNP's roleplay community, so it's a welcome inclusion conceptually for me.

[SherpDaWerp]

I count... at least 6 references to their "return to the multiverse". That's a lot of text devoted to "yeah they're a returning DOS", which isn't something that I feel the SC should be commending.

That's not to say they're un-commendable, just that the resolution devotes a bit too much time to it - they're not commendable for being a returnee, they're commendable for the rest of their actual achievements (and being a returnee is just an interesting side-note).

[Pallaith]

I count... at least 6 references to their "return to the multiverse". That's a lot of text devoted to "yeah they're a returning DOS", which isn't something that I feel the SC should be commending.

That's not to say they're un-commendable, just that the resolution devotes a bit too much time to it - they're not commendable for being a returnee, they're commendable for the rest of their actual achievements (and being a returnee is just an interesting side-note).

I don’t feel that this draft relies on that interesting factoid to make its case for commendation - the bulk of this resolution covers precisely the ground you feel it should. The DOS angle is intrinsically linked to the narrative, however, and cannot be ignored - nor should it be! It’s safe to say no other player has this particular story, and no other player has had so successful and fruitful a return after being DOS. We really ought to be proud, because reform and rehabilitation are the goal of these kinds of second chances. It’s extraordinary to come back from that and to become a fixture of modern gameplay and this community despite that history. Why is referencing it bad, especially if we have a clear litany of things making our case for commendation aside from it? And why, if the nature of his return is essentially the ideal version of such a return, and that return led to great things, would it be bad to commend someone for that particular return?

I acknowledge there is one clause dedicated to this, apart from the other references (which I deem to be flavor, and not that it matters, but I only intentionally made three such references, so I’m curious what else you’re counting), so I won’t deny that I am including the return as one of the commendable things. The way I see it, I’m not commending the fact he was DOS or the reason why he was DOS. I’m very emphatically not doing that in fact - we’re talking about a commendation because someone overcame that and changed the conditions of their engagement with this game and community to come back from it, and then went on to do great things to coexist with their historical accomplishments. It’s not that he returned, it’s the particular nature of his return that I’m trying to highlight. I just can’t see what’s wrong with that or why we wouldn’t want to include it.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

First read through is very favourable - plenty of detail and a well put together format.

Usually it is standard to post your feedback here (if any) rather than through the telegram feature. Feedback does not only have to be valued and looked upon by the author(s).

Their feedback is a petty grudge stemming from getting in trouble and banned from TNP for bigoted behavior, and MadJack is their scapegoat I guess. I assure you that nothing they share with you will be valuable or constructive.

Now there’s a surprise - not.

[SherpDaWerp]

I count... at least 6 references to their "return to the multiverse". That's a lot of text devoted to "yeah they're a returning DOS", which isn't something that I feel the SC should be commending.

That's not to say they're un-commendable, just that the resolution devotes a bit too much time to it - they're not commendable for being a returnee, they're commendable for the rest of their actual achievements (and being a returnee is just an interesting side-note).

I only intentionally made three such references, so I’m curious what else you’re counting

I may be reading into some of these too much, but here's what I counted: "loud and boisterous..." (first clause), "years of manifesting... prior to assuming a mortal form" (fifth clause), "still in awe..." (sixth clause), "avatar of second chances" (seventh clause), "history of self-immolation" (seventh clause), "exemplar of comebacks" (ninth clause).

The way I see it, I’m not commending the fact he was DOS or the reason why he was DOS. I’m very emphatically not doing that in fact - we’re talking about a commendation because someone overcame that and changed the conditions of their engagement with this game and community to come back from it, and then went on to do great things to coexist with their historical accomplishments. It’s not that he returned, it’s the particular nature of his return that I’m trying to highlight. I just can’t see what’s wrong with that or why we wouldn’t want to include it.

I'm not saying it should be verboten, I'm just saying there's too many words devoted to it, in an already fairly full proposal. I'm also not sure I agree with it being a real part of the reasoning behind the commend - yeah, it's nice that he reformed, but there are plenty of players who never even needed to reform, because they weren't DOS in the first place. It's almost a little insulting, in some way - "Hey, I got a commend because I'm an exemplary player in my field, I've devoted years to (defending|issue writing|region building|roleplaying|whatever) and really made a positive contribution to the game!" "Well, I got one for returning to the site and... not getting banned again."

Now, obviously the rest of the proposal makes it clear that MadJack could fit in the former category anyway. But it does rankle a little that the latter part is a fairly major feature of the proposal - even if it's not all in one place, it's enough content to feel equal to a much larger clause (and being spread out really doesn't help this, because it keeps popping up as you continue to read). If MadJack's contributions to the site are worthy of a commend, you shouldn't cheapen them by needing to include "reformed and didn't get banned again" as anything more than a historical side-note.

I can keep saying it in different ways, but it boils down to: I don't think MadJack's return should have any more bearing on his commendability (and hence, any more actual mention in his commendation) than your average "...and they have good stats, too!" clause that people sometimes get. It's a cool factoid, a nice, heartwarming feel-good story of reform, but not a commendation-underpinning fact - as the current proposal seems to be treating it.

[Pallaith]

I only intentionally made three such references, so I’m curious what else you’re counting

I may be reading into some of these too much, but here's what I counted: "loud and boisterous..." (first clause), "years of manifesting... prior to assuming a mortal form" (fifth clause), "still in awe..." (sixth clause), "avatar of second chances" (seventh clause), "history of self-immolation" (seventh clause), "exemplar of comebacks" (ninth clause).

The way I see it, I’m not commending the fact he was DOS or the reason why he was DOS. I’m very emphatically not doing that in fact - we’re talking about a commendation because someone overcame that and changed the conditions of their engagement with this game and community to come back from it, and then went on to do great things to coexist with their historical accomplishments. It’s not that he returned, it’s the particular nature of his return that I’m trying to highlight. I just can’t see what’s wrong with that or why we wouldn’t want to include it.

I'm not saying it should be verboten, I'm just saying there's too many words devoted to it, in an already fairly full proposal. I'm also not sure I agree with it being a real part of the reasoning behind the commend - yeah, it's nice that he reformed, but there are plenty of players who never even needed to reform, because they weren't DOS in the first place. It's almost a little insulting, in some way - "Hey, I got a commend because I'm an exemplary player in my field, I've devoted years to (defending|issue writing|region building|roleplaying|whatever) and really made a positive contribution to the game!" "Well, I got one for returning to the site and... not getting banned again."

Now, obviously the rest of the proposal makes it clear that MadJack could fit in the former category anyway. But it does rankle a little that the latter part is a fairly major feature of the proposal - even if it's not all in one place, it's enough content to feel equal to a much larger clause (and being spread out really doesn't help this, because it keeps popping up as you continue to read). If MadJack's contributions to the site are worthy of a commend, you shouldn't cheapen them by needing to include "reformed and didn't get banned again" as anything more than a historical side-note.

I can keep saying it in different ways, but it boils down to: I don't think MadJack's return should have any more bearing on his commendability (and hence, any more actual mention in his commendation) than your average "...and they have good stats, too!" clause that people sometimes get. It's a cool factoid, a nice, heartwarming feel-good story of reform, but not a commendation-underpinning fact - as the current proposal seems to be treating it.

Yeah I can see how those last three seem like references to the DOS, but that’s actually not what I intended. MadJack has done some…interesting things over the years (treables anyone?) but not all of them are DOS related. But I think it’s awesome that they work as references to the DOS, it shows how much that fits with the theme I’m going for.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. This is an unprecedented story, I’m going to tell that story, and I won’t shy away from something that some feel taints the nominee. I don’t believe it does, and in fact, enhances it. I also can say this in other words but I’m going to wind up in the same place. I appreciate your concern and your view on this, and I would even say that in most other circumstances, I would probably be on the same page. Every situation is different, and in this situation, I feel this is the right approach.

[Szczyrzyc]

Endotarting your way to a GCR delegacy is not commendable.

[Zukchiva]

Endotarting your way to a GCR delegacy is not commendable.

not really what the resolution is commending

[Pallaith]

It may be worth a legality check on including things directly from his time away, but regardless I am happy to see some more insight and work regarding TNP's roleplay community, so it's a welcome inclusion conceptually for me.

I think this is a reasonable move.

I would like to ask moderation to provide a ruling on whether the content of this commendation can include reference to work done in TNP's offsite community during the period the nominee was DOS. Thanks!

[WayNeacTia]

It may be worth a legality check on including things directly from his time away, but regardless I am happy to see some more insight and work regarding TNP's roleplay community, so it's a welcome inclusion conceptually for me.

I think this is a reasonable move.

I would like to ask moderation to provide a ruling on whether the content of this commendation can include reference to work done in TNP's offsite community during the period the nominee was DOS. Thanks!

You cannot possibly be serious. Haven't we always been encouraged (not that it seems to matter, I suppose...) not to interact with DOS players, let alone be apart of your community? Jack was DOS. That means no involvement in the game whatsoever. If he is being commended for work done off site while he was DELETE ON SITE, then what is the point of commendations anymore? A player could create a puppet nation, which they never log into, do all of their business off site and still be commended? If I was moderation, given these revelations, I would be looking very hard into the leadership of TNP while Jack was DOS, and questioning just how much influence he actually had on the game and on the site via proxy members. If the community was watching, and is as steadfast about the rules as they say they are when someone gets butthurt, they should also be questioning why they have any involvement with a community which harbors and even encourages DOS players to be a member of their community, even when the mods have declared them too dangerous to be allowed on the site due to their behavior.....